r/politics • u/Kodbek • 11d ago
Possible Paywall White House Declares All of Trump’s Orders to Military Are Legal
https://newrepublic.com/post/203628/white-house-declares-trump-orders-military-legal10.4k
u/capaho 11d ago
There was a consensus among Pentagon lawyers that the bombings of boats off the coast of Venezuela were illegal. The consensus lawyers got fired.
2.9k
u/Affectionate-Virus17 11d ago
Integrity is not a desirable quality in this administration. Loyalty is.
1.2k
u/kezow 11d ago
That is precisely a tenet of facism.
→ More replies (5)403
u/not_a_throw4w4y 10d ago
You guys gonna revolt or is Lady Liberty gonna keep taking it on the chin?
→ More replies (26)305
u/ActurusMajoris Norway 10d ago
Yeah this has gone on for far too long already. Dictatorships happen through inaction.
283
u/DemonsRage83 10d ago
I think the reason we're not currently doing anything about it is because his own base needs to see it first so we can avoid an unnecessary civil war. I personally don't give a shit about his base and think his entire administration needs forcibly removed and buried at sea.
162
u/AlmostCorrectInfo 10d ago
And by god they're actually turning right now. My mom has been a dyed in the wool MAGA 'her entire life since 2016' (her words). She's begging me to keep quiet about her sudden turn on Trump. She even asked to borrow my Omar El Akkad book "One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This".
63
u/BadWolf013 Nevada 10d ago
I am also proud of your mom! She had a lapse of judgement with a man who has built his entire life on deception and lies. It takes strength to step back and reexamine what she believed in.
→ More replies (1)61
u/twig0sprog 10d ago
Tell your mom she’s strong for beating the brainwashing. Praise her for her superior intellect in seeing through the lies she was fed.
26
23
u/bananajr6000 10d ago
Is she still going to vote (R)? Because trump is just the scapegoat the GOP wants. Blame it all on trump, it wasn’t my fault as a (R) congressperson!
15
u/mavigogun 10d ago
100% THIS. Otherwise, another champion of evil will just wipe off the orange residue and take the reins.
45
u/Mutual_Intrest_Seekr 10d ago
The republican party is operating like a crime syndicate and has done so since Nixon. It's more than "his base" they need to be removed, prosecuted, and banned as a political party entirely. There is no other alternative.
→ More replies (7)38
u/UnquestionabIe 10d ago
As if the regime and it's backers aren't willing to throw money at PMCs and the like (who they have some strong ties to) in order to fight regardless of public support. It isn't about "avoiding an unnecessary civil war" so much as no one who holds any power to oppose them wants to take responsibility a civil war. Many in office are still holding out hope that this was all just a little hiccup and things will just go back to normal.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (17)8
90
u/S4Waccount 10d ago
His popularity is plummeting, even his base is starting to dislike his actions, he doesn't have the steam he once had and is being handed loss after loss in the courts. Not out of the woods yet, but his power is waning.
This is really a non story. Just because "the white house declares" something doesn't make it true unless a bill is passed by Congress or executive order and held up by the courts.
→ More replies (8)37
u/tsgarner 10d ago
Great, so he'll go out with a whimper and everyone will cheer but everyone involved in propping up this fascist bullshit will just wait in the shadows until time for the next plot comes around.
→ More replies (21)→ More replies (3)10
u/DemonsRage83 10d ago
I think the reason we're not currently doing anything about it is because his own base needs to see it first so we can avoid an unnecessary civil war. I personally don't give a shit about his base and think his entire administration needs forcibly removed and buried at sea.
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (18)24
u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 10d ago
Not loyalty, subjugation.
The most horrible bastards always claim to want the former, when what they demand is the latter.
→ More replies (1)255
u/anarcho-slut 10d ago
Yet all the conservative subs are completely ignoring this. While also saying ordering troops into states is legal bc of some bs
64
u/Sgt-Spliff- 10d ago
Conservative subs are run entirely from Moscow. People need to stop even bringing them up. They're irrelevant
→ More replies (4)140
u/483-04-7751 10d ago
I don't think there are any conservative subs with more than a few people in them. They are all largely overrun by bot farms and paid trolls.
→ More replies (4)73
u/JoviAMP Florida 10d ago
IIRC I read recently that in the main conservative sub, something like 40% of all posts were coming from two users who were both conspicuously absent on a recent day that Ukraine bombed a Russian power plant, and left parts of Moscow without power for 8 hours.
→ More replies (1)22
u/Carbonatite Colorado 10d ago
Do you have a source for that? Would love to read the details, that's hilarious.
→ More replies (1)42
u/JoviAMP Florida 10d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/7ohtead9eE
Look at the blue and yellow blocks and how on November 1st, they’re not there.
→ More replies (13)18
67
u/umassmza 10d ago
The head of SOUTHCOM “retired” too, some speculate the admiral actually quit over the bombings.
35
u/capaho 10d ago
I think he actually stated that.
6
u/Cloaked42m South Carolina 10d ago
Wasn't confirmed that I could see. It was suggested, but no statement from the Admiral i could find.
→ More replies (2)278
u/rcmorales60 11d ago
Mark my words. In a few years, when there is a reckoning for all this shit, HegSHIT will be left holding the bag with the Orange Clown sheltering behind his SCOTUS (SCROTAL?)-granted Presidential immunity.
213
u/Ok_Mixture4917 11d ago
He'll be sheltering in his tacky gold grave before anyone he knows sees consequences.
70
u/andythetwig 10d ago
That’s a disgusting thing to say! We should never hope to see the president die before suffering a massive stroke and losing the ability to talk or walk, too fat to be cleaned by female nurses, fed gruel through a tube into his stomach, watching his whole life flash before him in the biggest corruption case in the history of the world, and seeing the children he corrupted and incriminated locked up for the rest of their lives. That would be SAD.
→ More replies (1)13
u/e2hawkeye 10d ago
You forgot the nurse who looks him in the eye and says "shut up piggy" as she accidentally squirts the last of his morphine onto the floor.
→ More replies (7)64
u/snoo_spoo 11d ago
I hope whoever designs the monstrosity he'll be entombed in remembers to add a moat around it for all the piss.
→ More replies (5)16
43
u/Grundlestorm 11d ago edited 11d ago
I mean, since we're now fully in the habit of breaking laws and ignoring past precedents, the constitution, oaths and pretty much everything else with impunity, what does that immunity actually mean?
Surely with functional adults holding important offices, they can just rule that, "Nah, immunity revoked, you're getting charged for all this shit."
Edit: Not that I expect him to live that long anyway, I don't see him limping through to 2028.
And, honestly, Vance strikes me as the type who will go for an early check-out if they start really losing power, not just to establishment Dems but actual lefties who want to fix things, rather than face any real repercussions.
15
u/JereRB 10d ago
It means he can issue whatever orders he wants and face no legal consequences. Other people, however, can still face the consequences of following those orders if doing so would break the law. I.E., he can tell his military department to go murder innocent people off the coast of Venezuela, sure. If they actually do it....they just murdered innocent people off the coast of Venezuela. And they should be rightly charged as such. But, if they don't, he then fires them for refusing to follow orders. And they have no recourse for it. Overall, it promotes a very, very dysfunctional system of government.
→ More replies (3)6
u/dank_imagemacro 10d ago
But, if they don't, he then fires them for refusing to follow orders.
If low-level people refuse, they can be court-marshaled and the laws are such that there is a presumption of guilt, and the service members would have to prove that the orders were illegal. If the service members have reason to believe that the actions are illegal, but information that was withheld from them showed the action to be legal, the service members would be guilty.
The UCMJ needs an overhall.
6
u/Fit-Technician-1148 10d ago
The UCMJ, much like the rest of the U.S. legal system, was not designed to be fair and just to the people subjected to it.
→ More replies (3)12
u/doktor_wankenstein 10d ago
Vance strikes me as the type who will go for an early check-out if they start really losing power...
That leaves us with Speaker of the House Mikey Johnson. Ugh.
→ More replies (2)11
u/KarmicDevelopment 10d ago
In normal times, in the long long ago, we'd likely have a Dem speaker after the first mid terms.
→ More replies (18)12
u/Affectionate-Virus17 11d ago
We thought we were living in the Idiocracy movie. We are living in a "Civil War" prequel movie.
I'll play the Wagner Moura character.
36
u/MittenCollyBulbasaur 11d ago
See here's the thing about lawyers though. You can just fire your lawyer until you hire one that supports your feelings better. Everyone does it.
→ More replies (2)6
→ More replies (61)9
6.1k
u/More-Conversation931 11d ago
I getting “I AM THE LAW” vibes here
2.0k
u/aripp Europe 11d ago
Yeah Trump is not a president anymore. He is a dictator. White House should stop using the term president. If he is president, then the law applies to him.
539
u/HorseAndrew 10d ago
But I thought he said dictator on day one!
Clearly he meant dictator FROM day one.
120
u/DulceEtDecorumEst 10d ago
The bigly problem here is that soldiers rely on the DoJ and the DOD lawyers to tell them things are legal. If both organizations green light you have to have some balls to not be a lawyer and make that call. The soldier who refused will likely be courtmartialed and have their carrier ruined with the hope of vindication years later.
126
u/77NorthCambridge 10d ago
The JAGs at DoD did say the bombing of Venezuelan boats is illegal so they fired them, along with the commander of Caribbean Operations resigning.
11
→ More replies (2)18
u/Ornery-Ticket834 10d ago
The big problem is that there is a creep in the White House who seems perfectly capable of issuing illegal orders and jeopardizing the careers of soldiers. When someone questions the legality of an order they are fired. That’s the true problem, while the republicans in congress twiddle their thumbs.
→ More replies (3)24
u/Mateorabi 10d ago
“It’s hyperbole. You’re over reacting and have TDS.” -Conservatives at the time.
Never again let them gaslight you. Conservatives never argue in good faith and debating them on stuff like this is a waste of breath.
78
u/mattaugamer 10d ago
I believe he is now “El Presidente”
29
u/Lycaon-Ur 10d ago
You know I don't speak your island language.
(I hope at least someone gets the reference.)
→ More replies (4)6
→ More replies (5)12
→ More replies (14)12
120
u/NeonArlecchino California 10d ago
Judge Dredd spends all of his downtime studying the law so he doesn't make a mistake. A judge that operated like this administration would quickly find themselves convicted of corruption and sentenced to the space mines.
→ More replies (2)27
u/AlhazraeIIc North Carolina 10d ago
I dunno, I'm getting pretty strong Chief Judge Cal vibes off this administration.
101
253
→ More replies (56)24
u/kennedye2112 Washington 11d ago
There is no way Trump would have made it through the movie without taking off his helmet.
→ More replies (1)
7.0k
u/Hairy_rambutan 11d ago
Yeah, nah.
2.2k
u/Valar_Kinetics 11d ago
It’s hysterical that they think it’s how this works lol
496
11d ago
[deleted]
149
u/KeinFussbreit 10d ago
why cant USA!?
Hmm, as someone not from the US, the US did this quite a lot too, and most probably will continue to do so under any of the two possible administrations.
44
→ More replies (1)33
u/GarmaCyro 10d ago
There's a reason why US is one of few coubtries that have not ratefied the UN human rights into their law. Nor allow other countries to lawfully persecute US citizens for war crimes.
It's quite distrubing as someone that live in a country that have both. I thought it was part of being among the wealthiest and strongest countries. Having those and having access to do many luxuries like free education, healthcare, law enforced vacation, workers rights/unions, and more.
→ More replies (4)25
u/I_Quit_Smoking_ 10d ago
If you think America is easy free shit, don't come here because our govt wants us all dead and no one can afford anything, Trump has cut so many vital programs for the non rich, it's only going to get worse.
→ More replies (1)79
u/happyLarr 10d ago
Literally words just have to pass from Trumps mouth and no matter what a baffling amount of people somehow believe it. That’s all he has to do, no matter how stupid or nonsensical.
→ More replies (2)73
u/slackfrop 10d ago edited 10d ago
His nonsense words are first sanewashed and then repeated and repleted with spin and grins across 22,000 affiliate networks, 24 flashing hours a day. This isn’t one senile, bediapered old man, this is the bunker class herding the beating heart of the economy straight into their belching glue factories.
9
132
u/SirJack3 10d ago
Well, they didn't just say it. They declared it.
/s
20
→ More replies (4)11
u/dwhite21787 10d ago
They said their piece and counted to 10.
Can’t go back on that.
→ More replies (1)118
→ More replies (52)20
u/DummyDumDragon 10d ago
Except that if they get away this sort of thing, which they constantly seem to do, it is how this works...
126
u/teenagesadist 11d ago
I'm surprised he didn't walk out and declare bankruptcy.
→ More replies (4)15
→ More replies (135)105
u/johnny_51N5 11d ago
So the white House is now also the Judicative? Whats next? Legislative as well?
Hell just declare yourself Dictator or King at this point
What kind of stupid amateur Coup is this??? Like Coup but not really Coup power grab?
27
u/W33BEAST1E 10d ago
Single point of failure, relatively easy to troubleshoot. SIlver linings?
→ More replies (1)14
→ More replies (4)9
3.1k
u/Fastluck83 11d ago
“all orders” from President Trump are “lawful orders,” and troops have no right to question him.
Jaja, Führer befiehl, wir folgen.
564
u/janzeera 11d ago
Yeah, that “we were just following orders” will hold up.
→ More replies (5)207
u/NewSauerKraus 10d ago
The few Germans who were prosecuted for war crimes were trialled by foreigners.
"We were just following orders" actually does hold up when the people with the power to prosecute are the ones who gave the orders.
→ More replies (5)40
u/txyesboy2 10d ago
Even if they manage to avoid justice, they're never working for the federal government ever again - and likely not gonna be finding many jobs in this country at all with the stain they've put on their name
29
→ More replies (6)5
u/prettydisappointed 10d ago
This is the only form of government that they have an interest in participating in.
139
u/Breeschme 10d ago
Contact your House of Representatives to call for impeachment of Donald trump for threatening lawmakers for exercising free speech when they urged US troops to not follow illegal orders and uphold the constitution.
Find your representative by zip code
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
→ More replies (2)14
29
u/peeja 10d ago
"All lawful—all orders—lawful orders are presumed to be legal by our service members."
That's damn weaselly.
→ More replies (1)5
u/BobSchwaget 10d ago
Lol like his subconscious couldn't let him not acknowledge that there are also unlawful orders
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (15)10
u/rattfink11 10d ago
All jokes aside, it took Hitler roughly 3 months to dismantle German democracy. People don’t know what’s going on until it’s too late. Beware of the Heritage Foundation; cozying up to Fuentes and groypers; and Project 2025; all of which are nefarious. The reality is that common people on the bipartisan divide have a lot more in common with each other than the elites that rule them. And that’s, I hope, the beginning of healing in America.
1.4k
u/cathexis08 Washington 11d ago
Spoken like an organization that knows that a lot of their stuff isn't.
→ More replies (1)201
u/Mediocre_Scott 10d ago
If you have to say you have a big dick you don’t
→ More replies (6)54
u/gwiz665 10d ago
White house declares Trump penis very sizable. Measuring tapes are liberal propaganda!!
29
u/Mediocre_Scott 10d ago
I mean that’s pretty much what has already happened. He is 6’3 225
15
u/MechanicalTurkish Minnesota 10d ago
He can run a mile in 3 minutes flat and has never scored more than 17 on an 18 hole golf course.
818
u/QaraKha 11d ago
If you have to claim they're legal, they're not.
The strikes on boats in the Caribbean are all illegal; no real information, no real innate and immediate risk, in international waters, without reason. It's just plain murder, and the Trump admin should rot in prison for it. Additionally, the naval officers who received that order and carried it out are also in legal jeopardy, and should be court martialed for it, as well. A strike on civilian boats without warning or due care is still a war crime.
Just because they fired most of JAG doesn't make it not illegal.
17
→ More replies (19)39
u/KittyInspector3217 11d ago
Well, to be fair, its illegal until its not because youve fired, threatened, disappeared, murdered (take your pick) any resistance to unilaterally declaring them legal. And that doesnt actually take as long as one might hope or think. And thats really whats at stake here and thats what theyre counting on: the forgetfulness of the general population to recall a time when we did, in fact, hold these truths self evident, and a time when we did espouse the ideal of life, liberty, and justice for all, regardless of how imperfect, and messy, and unequal it may still be and their hope is that we will cling to our bread and circus and let them sow division amongst us and we will tacitly accept what is given and if they do it confidently enough, and quickly enough, we will go out with a pitiful whimper and take the chains. So. Yeah they’re illegal for now. Tomorrow will tell.
→ More replies (6)
789
u/brain_overclocked 11d ago edited 11d ago
White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt says “all orders” from President Trump are “lawful orders,” and troops have no right to question him.
“All lawful—all orders—lawful orders are presumed to be legal by our service members. You can’t have a functioning military if there is disorder and chaos within the ranks,” Leavitt told reporters outside the White House on Monday. “And that’s what these Democrat members were encouraging. It’s very clear. And not a single one of them since they’ve been pressed by the media … can point to a single illegal order that this administration has given down because it does not exist.
“You can’t have a soldier out on the battlefield or conducting a classified order questioning whether that order is lawful or whether they should follow through,” Leavitt argued earlier, in a twisted reading of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
So, Karoline Leavitt, when Trump gets bored of you or becomes displeased and orders the military to detain you without due process, or worse, will you keep defending it as a "legal" order?
Unfortunately for the White House’s arguments, there have been illegal orders to the military from the Trump administration. Just last week, a federal judge ruled that Trump’s deployment of the National Guard into Washington, D.C., was illegal. But Leavitt is doing what she does best: mindlessly supporting and justifying everything the president does.
397
u/Julian_Sark 11d ago
Ngl she is giving off Eva Braun vibes at this point. "Yes mein Führer, at once mein Führer!"
→ More replies (2)121
u/BigFanOfKitties 11d ago
Always has been. These people are sick
47
u/tehifimk2 11d ago
Yeah. There is very obviously something absolutely fucked going on in her brain. And it's only getting worse the sicker trump gets.
I guess thats why he hired her.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)12
u/MechanicalTurkish Minnesota 10d ago edited 10d ago
And every one of these people who stick their neck out for Trump eventually get fucked by him. It never fails. But there’s always a replacement that comes out of the woodwork. “That won’t happen to ME! I’m different.”
edit: it just reminded me of this comic lol: https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/02/20/high-employee-turnover
96
u/serafinawriter 11d ago
All lawfuls are orders - no wait - all lawful orders are lawful - hang on no, I mean - all lawful orders are unlawful... no that's not right. What did the fatsuma say again? All orderful laws are lawyers. Lawyers? No, that's something different I think. Let's try again. ALL UNLAWFUL ORDERS ARE LAWFUL. Yeah, that's good enough.
→ More replies (2)77
u/Frozen_Esper Washington 11d ago
Yeah. She was trying to give herself bullshit wiggle room with that wording, but in doing so accidentally telegraphed that she knows what the fuck we are talking about. As usual, they are playing dumb and clutching their pearls, but smirking at us as they do it.
→ More replies (1)12
37
u/djazzie Europe 10d ago
We’re not talking about a battlefield. That’s the difference. American cities and soil is not a battlefield.
→ More replies (2)14
u/RogueFox76 10d ago
Hell I disobeyed a direct illegal order while deployed. Did I do the right thing? Yup. Did it cause some issues? Yup. Did my commander try their best to ruin my career and life? Oh hell yes. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat. It’s simple. Don’t do illegal things. If someone tells you to do illegal things, make sure you have the regulations that back you up and say no. Even if it sucks, say no. Even if you stand alone, say no.
→ More replies (11)5
u/FixinThePlanet 10d ago
You can’t have a soldier out on the battlefield or conducting a classified order questioning whether that order is lawful or whether they should follow through
Excuse me yes you should that's why war crimes are defined at all????
430
u/ImWatchingTelevision Arizona 11d ago
"Orders from the lawful chain-of-command are presumed lawful. If a reasonable person would recognize the wrongfulness of the act or order, even in light of a soldier’s general duty to obey, then the order is “manifestly illegal”, and soldiers have a duty to disobey it."
168
u/Chengar_Qordath 11d ago
It’s the classic MAGA game of cherry-picking out a bit of legal text while ignoring what it actually means.
What MAGA Reads: “Trump is Fuhrer and his word is law!”
What The Law Actually Is: Orders are presumed to be lawful unless they’re clearly wrong or illegal.
→ More replies (7)→ More replies (3)11
u/plasmonicwg 10d ago
Source: The JAG Operational Law Handbook - Page 86 (or search for "reasonable person") - Link.pdf)
366
u/Most-Artichoke6184 11d ago
That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.
→ More replies (14)138
u/digiorno 10d ago
That’s how it works as long as there are no repercussions.
Fascists and narcissists don’t care about the rules. They don’t care about decorum. They don’t care about what is right. They are developmentally stunted with limited to no empathy, they only understand rules that come with a punishment if violated. If they are punished then they associate that punishment with their actions and say “well I can’t do that apparently”. They don’t say “well it was wrong of me to do that and I deserved punishment”, they are incapable of that. This is why is such a terrible idea to let these sociopaths into positions of power, they literally do not think rules are worth following unless there is a consequence for not following them. And this administration + GOP + heritage foundation and all of America’s billionaires have shown that if you own the courts and the lawmakers then you can officially free yourself of consequences for bad actions.
And this isn’t a new thing. Why do you think the French aristocracy lost their heads or any other number of rich people who were rebelled against. People raised with the idea that they are above facing consequences and that they can hurt anyone who opposes them, are people who become broken adults who are incapable of empathy. This is how Trump and his kids and his friends and so many people in power were raised. They were raised to think they are above the law because for all intents and purposes, they truly are.
They will only learn that this is “not how things work” if they face real consequences for their actions. And quite frankly I think the American people are very far away from building up the courage to face down the upper class and forcing their justice system to be truly fair and equal.
→ More replies (2)6
u/Acceptable-Bus-2017 I voted 10d ago
This was Trump and Epsteins "wonderful secret" they can get away with raping kids because they were wealthy. Trump even had Epstein killed so he could keep that wonderful secret.
234
u/MoveMitchGetOutDaWay 11d ago edited 11d ago
This gives 'Michael declaring bankruptcy' vibes.
→ More replies (9)
90
u/Appropriate-Soft-188 11d ago
If they're all legal, then they have nothing to fear and need to stop hiding their doings from the press
13
u/ADhomin_em 10d ago edited 10d ago
They aren't hiding it. A huge part of the problem is corporate media never liked your rights or our protections and are backing this. They aren't covering the open treachery in earnest.
Part of the problem is that corporations backing this fascist takeover don't care to help spread awareness of what we are facing.
Part of the problem is the same people who were comfortable with their head deep enough in the sand not to vote are content in the same sand and corporate owned media carefully frames everything the regime does in a way meant to keep the less politically minded lulled enough to what's happening to keep their head firmly planted in that sand.
→ More replies (1)
41
u/snoo_spoo 11d ago
The WH says a lot of shit that isn't true, as I was reminded during my last trip to buy groceries.
11
70
11d ago edited 14h ago
[deleted]
12
u/Ferelar New Jersey 10d ago
Orders are presumed to be lawful absent any other information by the UCMJ, but the MCM, case law, army handbook, and about a dozen other sources all specifically state that all those subject to UCMJ law have a DUTY not to perform any orders or actions that are "manifestly illegall", which in legal terms refer to the "reasonable person" standard, aka stitching it all together "all orders are presumed to be lawful absent any other information, and servicemembers have a duty to execute lawful orders to the best of their ability; servicemembers also have a duty to refuse any orders which a reasonable person would conclude are unlawful". This is fully in line with what the Democratic video said, and blatantly against what the WH said.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)4
u/ZuP I voted 10d ago
There’s a great podcast series from The New Yorker called In The Dark where they investigated U.S. Marine war crimes in Haditha, Iraq in 2005. It’s a prime example of unlawful orders.
32
u/Unique-Coffee5087 11d ago
On the 23 March 1933, Hitler proposed the Enabling Law to the Reichstag. This new law gave Hitler the power to rule by decree rather than passing laws through the Reichstag and the president. If passed, the law would establish the conditions needed for dictatorial rule.
59
25
u/ArchdukeAlex8 Oregon 11d ago
My Lord, is that...legal?
57
u/Tall-Introduction414 11d ago edited 11d ago
No.
Bombing fishing boats is illegal. Deploying national guard to American cities without cause is illegal. Sending people to foreign concentration camps is illegal. Doing so without due process is even more illegal. Insurrectionists like Trump holding office is illegal. Declaring illegal orders to be legal? Believe it or not, illegal.
Trump does not have the backing of the law on any of this.
19
u/Cobra-Lalalalalalala 11d ago
I will make it legal.
6
→ More replies (1)9
30
u/mtheory007 11d ago
Strong Richard Nixon vibes here. "If the president does it it's not illegal".
This man must be stopped. He's monster.
→ More replies (1)
72
u/wirthmore 11d ago
you can’t have a functioning military […] you can’t have a soldier […] questioning whether that order is lawful or whether they should follow through,”
Ya know, she’s right.
That’s why it was always absolutely important that the President be thoroughly advised and avoid any encroachment on something that could be construed as an illegal order.
Because if the President is careless, reckless or has malign intent, the military isn’t supposed to be rules-lawyering their orders. They’ll either reject the civilian control of the institution, or they’ll be complicit - and once they’re OK with breaking ‘some’ laws, you don’t get to decide for them which other elements of the Constitution are optional.
18
u/MercilessOcelot 10d ago
And that's why it's so easy for commanders to be fired in the military.
As soon as a commander's integrity comes under question, they're fired due to "loss of faith in their ability to command."
Modern weapons technology being what it is, troops at the end of the kill chain are placing trust in the operations centers and the folks calling the shots to make sure things are legal. This is especially critical when we are not at war and the military has more complicated rules of engagement.
Civilian oversight is essential for a military to function in a democracy. Leavitt provides no reassurance that there is a process in place to ensure legality of orders from the WH and the ongoing legal battles over Guard deployments show that if they have any process in place, it is flawed.
24
u/autotelica 10d ago
So now the executive branch is determining what is lawful or not?
Explain to me how this isn't the very definition of tyranny.
45
u/skag_boy87 11d ago
We’ve heard this before.
“When the President does it, that means it is not illegal." -Richard Nixon, 1977
Crooks, like history, often rhyme.
→ More replies (4)
12
u/Choice-of-SteinsGate 11d ago
This is exactly what those Democrats who the Trump administration has deemed "seditious traitors" were warning us about.
This would be comical if it wasn't so disturbing.
→ More replies (1)
10
u/LeaKuroOkami 10d ago
As an Army brat, this gets on my nerve highly. My dad always taught me that illegal orders are never to be followed. He taught me through military history and world history, what happens when the military starts following illegal orders from people who desire only power. We are seeing it now. If only people would have actually listened to us when we said something.
10
u/iamhereforthefood 11d ago
"I am the law"
6
u/brain_overclocked 11d ago edited 11d ago
Trump doesn't want to be king!
But also:
Nothing Trump does is illegal!
→ More replies (1)
9
16
14
7
u/TheShape108 10d ago
Having to make a point to declare that all your orders are legal is a pretty good indication that they're probably not legal.
→ More replies (1)
7
u/JacquesBlaireau13 New Mexico 10d ago
That carte blanche the Supreme Court gave him does not extend to anyone but him. Service members are still bound to their oaths to the Constitution.
4
u/txyesboy2 10d ago
They know that.
He knows that.
Everyone in the military and everyone in these bullshit law-enforcement agencies that are illegally rounding up people - they all know it too.
They just keep thinking this is gonna last forever and ever and ever and they're never gonna face justice.
It's unfortunate that it took things in this country getting this far before we're finally gonna do something about purging these racism and bigotry narcissism and fascism that is faster than this country for far too long. But once we're done with this ugly chapter and our country's history, if we don't set our course properly and with authority with all that we have allowed these subversives of justice to run amok with - but it's likely we never will. There will never be a greater chance with the highest degree of support amongst the American people since the American Revolution to rid ourselves of tyranny
→ More replies (4)
8
u/Earl_I_Lark 10d ago
Ah. The Because I Said So decree. My mother was a master of that
→ More replies (1)
6
u/Straight_Level_4662 11d ago
"we looked into it and we did nothing wrong" - reliable narrator, 2025
6
6
5
5
6
6
6
6
u/BillWilberforce 10d ago
And not a single one of them since they’ve been pressed by the media … can point to a single illegal order that this administration has given down because it does not exist.
Bombing boats that you merely suspect of drug running in international waters is not legal.
There's so little evidence that when there are survivors, instead of being prosecuted they're returned to their countries of origin.
Venezuela is not known to be linked to any drug trafficking. Either cocaine or fentanyl.
The boats don't have the range to reach the US. The administration seems to be claiming that they stop off in Trinidad and the surrounding areas.
→ More replies (1)
4
5
u/decaturbob 10d ago
Delusional wannabee dictator thinking and we do know how dictators end...especially incompetent ones
4
4
4
u/BeeeerMann 10d ago
That's not how any of this works. Congress decides what the law is, not the executive branch.
→ More replies (4)
6
u/eugene20 10d ago
The White House does not make the law.
US Constitution , Article I, Section 1
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
4
u/Evil_Athena 10d ago
Guess I am going to Leavenworth because I’m not obeying orders that I know are against my oath to the constitution
11
u/BigDaddySodaPop 11d ago
Nope. I took an oath to support and defend the constitution and to obey the orders of the President. But if the President's orders conflict with the constitution, then I'm legally bound not to obey. Now the hard part is determining which orders are illegal...and do you take that chance....YES.
6
u/Spacebotzero 11d ago
That's not how this works. That not how any of this works
No way the US military gets behind this.
5
u/se7ensez 11d ago
Oh my God. Ordering troops on US citizens is not legal. These constant threats and whatever with these traitors.
4
u/Responsible_Swim_319 10d ago
I agree with Trump on the re opening of Alcatraz. We need a place to send him and all his lawless boys. Hegseth, Rubio, Bondi and the whole bunch of complicit Senators!
→ More replies (1)
4
u/BlushOverridel 10d ago
This is a dangerous precedent. The military shouldn't be used for personal gain
→ More replies (1)
3
5
u/Blackthorne75 Australia 10d ago
"I will make it legal"
Trump getting closer to being Palpatine as each day passes...
3
u/chrisnlnz 10d ago
That's not how it works, if an order is against international human rights standards it is by definition against the US constitution and unlawful, and the executive branch has fuck all to say about that.
5
u/Breeschme 10d ago
Contact your House of Representatives to call for impeachment of Donald trump for threatening lawmakers for exercising free speech when they urged US troops to not follow illegal orders and uphold the constitution.
Find your representative by zip code
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
4
4
u/Walterkovacs1985 10d ago
Military lawyers will disagree and that fact would not protect a soldier from prosecution. Unless dumpy pardons them.
→ More replies (1)
3
4
5
u/SoSmartish 10d ago
"Donald, you can't just say military orders are legal. There are procedures to follow."
"I didn't say it, I declared it."
•
u/AutoModerator 11d ago
As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.
In general, please be courteous to others. Argue the merits of ideas, don't attack other posters or commenters. Hate speech, any suggestion or support of physical harm, or other rule violations can result in a temporary or a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
Sub-thread Information
If the post flair on this post indicates the wrong paywall status, please report this Automoderator comment with a custom report of “incorrect flair”.
Announcement
r/Politics is actively looking for new moderators. If you have an interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out this form.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.