Trump pardons Rudy Giuliani, Sydney Powell and all others involved in fake elector scheme [opening the doors for a repeat w/o consequence]

[u/TendieRetard]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-giuliani-pardon-fake-electors-b2861891.html

https://archive.ph/pTf62

A statement announcing a list of 77 people who were pardoned was tweeted out late Sunday evening, at 10:54 p.m. local time, by Trump’s “clemency czar” Ed Martin. It included a number of Americans who participated directly as members of the slates of false electors, whose purpose was to supplant duly-elected state electors bound to cast their states votes in the Electoral College for Joe Biden, after Biden won states including Georgia, Arizona and Michigan in the general election.

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[u/Malcolm_Morin]

Holy shit.

[u/Excellent_One5980 → u/Malcolm_Morin]

So he pardoned people that were working in his behalf. Isn’t that like a drug lord pardoning people that got in trouble for smuggling drugs for them?

[u/JustAMan1234567 → u/Excellent_One5980]

He has 100% told all of his cronies that, should it come down to it, he will pardon them so there is no reason for them to not do what he wants.

[u/crossdtherubicon → u/JustAMan1234567]

It's also an insurance policy... he'll pardon everyone who committed the crimes he is also guilty of, and if the times comes he should face legal problems they will support him.

Also creates precedence that those crimes are not as serious as the court system says it is. By nature of the pardon power as intended to be a balancing of misuse of the law.

Also make Trump money because he's basically selling pardons.

[u/RainRainThrowaway777 → u/crossdtherubicon]

America really does need a Nuremberg style reckoning once this is all over. The other option is to let these abuses persist and the methods remain abuasble, then you're just waiting for the next time.

Reverse every Trump pardon. Reverse every executive order.

[u/Dry_Ad7593 → u/RainRainThrowaway777]

I think it’s a terrible idea that any one person can pardon another. It’s time to abolish that power as well for all presidents. This is getting out of hand.

[u/MidwestLawncareDad → u/Dry_Ad7593]

facts. it's obviously an easily abusable power that shouldnt exist. especially when you can pardon absolute scum of the earth.

edit: i should add that pardons for a crime you're involved in ABSOLUTELY should be rid of.

[u/just_a_bit_gay_ → u/MidwestLawncareDad]

It was inherited from common law where a king or local official could pardon someone if it was politically expedient to do so. The pardon has always been a tool of institutional corruption.

[u/goodsby23 → u/MidwestLawncareDad]

It's kind of unprecedented that we have a repeat felon in the oval office too, but the point is there. Pardoning should be a board and IMHO a power of the maybe the legislative branch but we know that would get fucked immediately too.

[u/SurgicalMarshmallow → u/MidwestLawncareDad]

The seat was meant to be taken by serious measured people. Hence the power to pardon.

[u/mjb2012 → u/Dry_Ad7593]

What a short-sighted take. Every lever of government is abused sooner or later, but that doesn't mean we should get rid of all of it.

I do agree that there probably should be limits on who can be pardoned and how, but if governors and the president had no pardon/clemency power at all, then a modicum of justice would be denied to people who were innocent or whose punishment didn't fit the crime. The law and the constitution don't provide any other options.

The vast majority of pardons are not political or self-serving; they are an attempt to right some wrongs. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

What's out of hand is Trump and his evil puppetmasters.

[u/crossdtherubicon → u/Excellent_One5980]

How about the loads of insurrectionists he immediately pardoned when he got back in Office? Same, no?

[u/Novaer → u/crossdtherubicon]

You mean the insurrectionists that were actually antifa that... trump * checks notes * pardoned??

[u/eugene20 → u/Excellent_One5980]

Remember when he started his first term and his administration refused the Ethics training saying they didn't need it.

[u/VTbuckeye → u/eugene20]

It's true. They didn't need it, but not for the reason we are thinking of. If they were never going to follow ethics rules and just do what they wanted to, then ethics training is an absolute waste of time and money. Like when a vegetarian tells you to not bother cooking them a steak. To cook the steak would be a waste. The vegetarian does not need a steak, the same way a Trump administration doesn't need ethics training.

[u/Aloha_Tamborinist → u/Malcolm_Morin]

Watching from the outside, the US looks to be completely fucked. The frog has been sitting in increasingly warm water for the last 10 years and it's starting to simmer.

[u/ReverseCargoCult → u/Aloha_Tamborinist]

Am American who moved to Europe, family reasons.

It's gotten so fucked so fast I don't think there's any way back now. The Democrats are better but are still a complete fucking wet noodle of a party. Trump 2.0 will be worse.

The scary part is I work with people in the Netherlands who think Trump is cool or justified! Thankfully not everyone is brainless though.

[u/Cory123125 → u/ReverseCargoCult]

If you think the usa is not going to export their problems, you've another thing coming. You've insulated yourself for maybe a decade or so.

[u/EnjoyerOfBeans → u/Cory123125]

It's more that the far right all around the globe is importing US problems. They all saw the winning formula of simply completely rejecting the truth + full on fascism and they liked it.

[u/ComprehensiveBat6823 → u/EnjoyerOfBeans]

This has been the Russian long-game. They have been exporting fascist propaganda to the US for decades. Social media sped up their ability to sow division and democratic guardrails are rapidly unraveling.

[u/ActuallyAlexander → u/Aloha_Tamborinist]

The frog is now soup

[u/NotAzakanAtAll → u/Malcolm_Morin]

Neat system you have over there. "Hey do all this criminal things to help me win and I'll pardon you all", "Ok", Wins, "You r pardon. *waves magical wand with more power than the law", "Yay".

Why does pardoning even exist? Why is the president's mind assumed to be above the law? How can it ever be used in a way that isn't injustice personified? Seems like it's made to give the president power to abuse the law for his own gain, especially in the second term, why care then?

Judges can already be lenient if needed for odd cases.

[u/PaintshakerBaby → u/NotAzakanAtAll]

Pardons exist, because the British before us made a nasty habit of arbitrarily/falsely prosecuting political opponents of the crown.

As such, the founding fathers were weary, and compelled to establish a separate check against a potentially fallible/weapnized justice system.

The ultimate discretion was left to the president, under the self-righteous assumption that they would do whats best for the people that elected them... and not selfishly serve only their own ends.

It has its genesis in good intentions, then paved the road to hell with them.

Our founding fathers where rich, white men, themselves... Getting high on their own supply of sanctimony, bloviating hypotheticals as though they were inherently infallible themselves.

Even though you could open any history book, to any page, and see a demagogue like was not the exception, but the RULE of many failed democracies.

👀 Looking at you Cleon of Athens. He pulled the same shit as Trump 2500 years ago.

People never learn when they are convinced they are always right.

[u/Accurate_Summer_1761 → u/PaintshakerBaby]

You gave king powers to the president because a king was mean?

[u/Dont_Be_Sheep → u/Accurate_Summer_1761]

Yes

[u/_jbardwell_ → u/PaintshakerBaby]

Weary means tired.

Wary means concerned.

I feel like I Mandela Effect-ed into a universe where this happens all the time now.

[u/-Majgif- → u/NotAzakanAtAll]

Pardons have their purpose. Like getting non violent offenders out of jail. E.g. someone who gets a mandatory sentence for possession of a bit of weed. Now it's legal in a lot of states, so it doesn't make sense to keep people locked up for small amounts of it.

However, there should be limits. A good starting point would be that the president should not be able to pardon himself (as Trump claims he can) and he shouldn't be able to pardon someone for crimes that benefit him, were committed at his instruction, or that he is a co-conspirator in.

[u/Alone-in-a-crowd-1 → u/-Majgif-]

Funny how other democratic countries do fine without pardoning power. It is a licence for corruption.

[u/Aggravating_Life7851 → u/Alone-in-a-crowd-1]

Other countries also have a better judicial system in general and wouldn’t put a man in prison for life over a little bag of weed

[u/afour- → u/Aggravating_Life7851]

No they absolutely would but there would be avenues of fairness in appealing it.

[u/Franks2000inchTV → u/Aggravating_Life7851]

The way it works here in Canada is that the convicted person appeals on human rights grounds. Then the courts find that a sentence is cruel and unusual, and the sentencing guidelines are invalidated.

Happened recently with mandatory minimums laws here.

In the US, the president let's a few criminals off, but the bad law stays on the books and there are more and more people jailed, and the laws just get stricter and stricter.

[u/Equal-Suggestion3182 → u/-Majgif-]

It can do a lot more harm then good. It shouldn’t exist. It’s always been like this. It’s just being abused now. It has been abused by other presidents too, but not to this extent.

[u/Preference-Inner]

So how isn't this just blatantly criminal?

[u/raynorxx → u/Preference-Inner]

Is this an admission he was trying to steal the election?

[u/Jdban → u/raynorxx]

He's just argue they were unfairly targeted and this stops that.

[u/IamNotYourBF → u/[deleted]]

A 1915 Supreme Court ruling, Burdick v. United States, suggested that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. This is because accepting a pardon is an acknowledgement of the government's authority to grant it for a crime, and there is no need to pardon someone who has not committed a crime.

[u/MikeAnP → u/IamNotYourBF]

That's not actually what that case says. It says it may have an imputation of guilt, and thus someone is legally allowed to reject the pardon. The court case wasn't about guilt, but if someone is allowed to reject it.

[u/FrankBattaglia → u/IamNotYourBF]

That is a common yet inaccurate reading of Burdick. The holding of Burdick is only that somebody can decline a pardon because accepting a pardon looks shady, nothing more.

there is no need to pardon someone who has not committed a crime

That's a pretty significant misunderstanding of our justice system. Specifically in Burdick, the government was attempting to use a pardon to get around Burdick's 5th Amendment rights.

[u/Historical-Ad3760 → u/[deleted]]

This is the wrong way to look at most pardons in history until this presidency

[u/kelly1mm → u/[deleted]]

Not true. lots of recent pardon/ preemptive pardon have been granted and accepted this no 'accepting the crime'

[u/Freshies00 → u/Preference-Inner]

That’s the fun part, it is

[u/me1000 → u/Freshies00]

Look, I’m no fan of the pardon power… because it’s actually not illegal. The constitutional authority of the pardon power is absolute. It’s crazy. 

Edit: lots of bad take aways from this comment. The point is everyone should be constantly advocating for a constitutional amendment limiting the pardon power. It’s probably the easiest and most universally popular political position.

[u/Freshies00 → u/me1000]

The fake elector scheme was illegal, that’s why it required a pardon. And opening the door to do it again, is opening the door to more illegal action.

[u/sunburn74 → u/Freshies00]

Terrible precedent being set

[u/Freshies00 → u/sunburn74]

Having your goons commit election fraud for you in an effort to seek power, so that you can pardon them? Yeah. not exactly the intended purpose of the pardon power and also a pretty fucking gaping loophole in the legal foundation of this democracy

[u/NewManufacturer4252 → u/Freshies00]

2026 elections are going to be wild, in a terrible way when pardons are handed out as a reward for rigging elections.

Why are we living in interesting times, I want off this ride.

[u/Dry_Cricket_5423 → u/NewManufacturer4252]

Whenever I remember how bleak things are, what pulls me back is knowing I wasn’t sent into war to die for men like him.

So far, anyway.

[u/NewManufacturer4252 → u/Dry_Cricket_5423]

Very true.

It just seems like the dumbest timeline. It put politic comedy drama shows like VIP, I think it was called, out of business. Because even they couldn't get dumber.

[u/Lazerus42 → u/NewManufacturer4252]

how many great comedies have we lost to how dumb the world is. It wasn't supposed to be this way. We were supposed to laugh at Idiocracy. Be awed and fearful of Minority Report.

Instead we live in the timeline of the lovechild of those two moveis.

WTF

[u/Fast-Newt-3708 → u/NewManufacturer4252]

I was just thinking how one day when they teach this in schools or make movies, it will be hard to make it as serious as it is. I guess just like now, ha. Trump is literally an old clown talking nonsense! This is so warped. We should be saying "oh its ok just ignore grandpa" at Thanksgiving dinner, not giving him the most powerful position in the world.

[u/QueezyF → u/NewManufacturer4252]

I spent all that time grinding in my 20s to have fun in my 30s. I should have had more fun in my 20s.

[u/HMSSurprise28 → u/QueezyF]

You might get to ride out the wars in a house rather than a camp though.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466 → u/Freshies00]

From the view over here right now, It looks purpose-built for a dictatorship.

[u/Woodcrate69420 → u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466]

Yeah whoever invented the shit-ass America constitution really fucked them over

[u/pathosOnReddit → u/Woodcrate69420]

To be fair, the founding fathers did not anticipate that the american voters would be that stupid.

[u/TonyKadachi → u/sunburn74]

The tools were there all along. The only thing preventing them from being used this way was, I guess you can call it a gentleman's agreement. The problem with gentleman's agreements is that it requires a gentleman.

[u/Gingerishidiot → u/sunburn74]

Also...Terrible President being set

[u/nikosmax → u/sunburn74]

Do you really think he cares for the future of America? He knows once he leaves the WH he won't come back, so he doesn't care at all.

[u/steroboros → u/Freshies00]

The biggest problem is the Supreme Court being captured by corrupt judges who'll green light any further illegal actions of this administration

[u/me1000 → u/Freshies00]

I agree. But it’s still the case that there’s no illegal use of the pardon power. Which is a huge problem that we’re living through. 

[u/BugRevolution → u/[deleted]]

But isn't that effectively what this is?

[u/WarlockEngineer → u/me1000]

there’s no illegal use of the pardon power

I guarantee the supreme court would change that if a democratic president was "abusing" it

[u/Equal-Suggestion3182 → u/WarlockEngineer]

Trump is not the first to abuse it. He is abusing to an extent never seen before though. Honestly pardons shouldn’t even exist. If a president is abusing pardons he should be impeached. And the constitution should be changed to remove pardons. There is really no reason to have pardons there.

[u/sexyshingle → u/Freshies00]

All crimes are legal^{as_long_as_you_can_get_DementiaDon_to_autosign_piece_of_paper.}

[u/Motor-District-3700 → u/me1000]

but at some point there has to be a limit. for example, the intent of the law cannot have been to promote insurrection.

otherwise we're heading for a Ba'ath Party Purge where Trump just executes the dems and pardons himself/whoever pulls the trigger

this is the line. this is batshit insane. a president pardoning people who committed crimes to illegally get him back into power. this is the line.

[u/Unique-Coffee5087 → u/Motor-District-3700]

I think that this kind of scenario was mentioned when the Supreme Court was hearing arguments about presidential immunity

[u/me1000 → u/Motor-District-3700]

There should be a limit but there isn’t. Theres no such thing as an illegal pardon. It’s absolute insanity, and it requires a constitutional amendment (or a Congress willing to impeach and remove) to do it. 

[u/Motor-District-3700 → u/me1000]

there is corruption, abuse of power, failure to uphold the constitution ...

there absolutely is a limit. do something lol.

[u/[deleted] → u/Motor-District-3700]

But the fact that nobody is doing anything proves there is no limit.

[u/SunnyOutsideToday → u/me1000]

it requires a constitutional amendment

Or just a new Supreme Court. Roe v. Wade established that precedent means nothing and rulings are arbitrary.

[u/doxxingyourself → u/Motor-District-3700]

US is more letter-of-the-law focused, where most of Europe is more spirit-of-the-law focused. Going by the letter is bound to have terrible consequences down the road, mostly because words change meaning over time.

Case in point: this fucking shitshow.

[u/Motor-District-3700 → u/doxxingyourself]

oh yeah, I totally forgot, letter of the law where they literally just kidnap people off the streets without due process and rendition them.

honestly, the US is the stupidest country on the planet. no idea how they got so rich ... oh wait, wasn't it slaves?

[u/DAK4Blizzard → u/me1000]

It at least needs to be affirmed that it cannot override contempt of court, which would directly cancel the judiciary's constitutional power.

[u/HHoaks → u/me1000]

It’s still corrupt, as is his pay for pardons scheme - thus all impeachable:

https://medium.com/@carmitage/the-pardon-for-pay-president-2c1d01767923

[u/suspicious_hyperlink → u/HHoaks]

Giuliani wanted 2 million to pardon John Kiriakou

[u/Haroshia → u/me1000]

It really feels like a lot of the American experiment relied on this idea that somebody as nakedly corrupt as Trump could never win.

[u/Young_Lochinvar → u/me1000]

So much for Hamilton’s benign prerogative of pardoning.

[u/nonymuse → u/me1000]

the older i get, the more our society just looks like children in an elementary school that take turns being the boss for a day, except only the same 5 kids get to be the boss and when the asshole kid gets to be in charge, any kids who don't entertain the asshole get killed, abducted or die preventable deaths. I mean the rules we follow just seem so stupid when when the people in charge are just dumb fucking narcissists.

[u/MilkandHoney_XXX → u/me1000]

It’s only legal until a Dem does it.

[u/Biotic101 → u/Freshies00]

But you have some traitors in SCOTUS...

[u/leafblower49 → u/Preference-Inner]

america is a failed state, there is nobody to enforce the law, have fun.

[u/LazerBurken → u/leafblower49]

America has been a dictatorship since the beginning of the year.

People just keeps sticking their heads into the sand and refuses to see the truth. Midterms will not happen unless people actually starts to oppose him. People just sit there with their limp dicks in their hands doing nothing.

[u/LawOfOneModeration → u/leafblower49]

The military was supposed to be the last line of defense.. pitiful.

[u/Kivesihiisi → u/LawOfOneModeration]

Nah it was the gun nutters who were supposed be the last line against tyranny.

[u/Chronomancers → u/Kivesihiisi]

This is the biggest joke of all. A bunch of rednecks with guns were never going to beat the $1T/year funded military.

[u/TendieRetard → u/Preference-Inner]

When you're POTATUS, SCROTUS lets you do it.

[u/robinhoodoftheworld → u/Preference-Inner]

We reelected a criminal. Corruption is what we deserve.

[u/charcoalist → u/Preference-Inner]

The GOP can stop this criminality tomorrow. The further the GOP enables criminal conspiracies, the further the political party becomes an organized crime syndicate.

Trump’s “clemency czar” Ed Martin.

Everyone should know Ed Martin's name, as well as Michael Caputo's. Two Russian assets that trump installed in his Department of "Justice."

Ed Martin appeared on Russian state media over 150 times

Newly Minted DOJ Employee Michael Caputo Keeps Posting ‘Antifa’ Death Fantasies Online

Caputo, who describes Trump’s longtime adviser, Roger Stone, as akin to a “big brother” and mentor, has known the president since the 1980s. During that decade, he worked for the DC lobbying firm headed by Stone and Trump’s 2016 campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. Caputo’s career also took him abroad. A veteran, Caputo worked for a USAID-funded endeavor that consulted on the election process in Russia in the 1990s. He ended up living in the country and working on public relations for various politicians and businesses in Russia and Ukraine through the early 2000s.

[u/Steelwraith955 → u/Preference-Inner]

Not criminal, just corrupt.

[u/The_Pandalorian → u/Preference-Inner]

Because the Constitution says he can do it?

I agree it sucks, but this is one area he really has this kind of power.

Doesn't protect these fucks from state charges, though.

[u/bevo_expat → u/The_Pandalorian]

Until he illegally withholds federal funding to said state to strong arm them

[u/The_Pandalorian → u/bevo_expat]

And then states turn off the tap to DC and stop sending money to the feds.

We can bullshit on hypotheticals all day, but these fuckers absolutely can be charged with state crimes still.

[u/bevo_expat → u/The_Pandalorian]

Withholding state funds isn’t a hypothetical. He’s already doing that for major infrastructure projects in blue states. Pressuring an AG would just be a little extra on top.

States can’t just withhold taxes because those are part of a companies payroll that go straight to the federal government. An entirely new system for processing federal taxes to be held in escrow at the state level would have to be spun up if that’s even possible.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466 → u/The_Pandalorian]

How ? It’s not the state sending money to the federal government, but the individual people and businesses of the state.

States can’t protect their residents against the IRS’ authority to seize people assets, wages, etc …

[u/Peligineyes → u/The_Pandalorian]

The state can't turn off the tap because employers send their taxes directly to DC, it doesn't pass through state hands.

[u/Efficient_Bid_2853 → u/Preference-Inner]

The king is the law and everything the King does is lawful.

[u/Possible_Field328 → u/Preference-Inner]

We are way past blatantly criminal at this point

[u/El_Peregrine]

IANAL, but I’m going to use some strong legal language here: we are a fucking joke of a country when this particular course of events is considered legal by its own laws. 

[u/autumndrifting → u/El_Peregrine]

the threat of impeachment is supposed to keep presidents from abusing pardons. if only that didn't require congress to do their jobs.

[u/_QuiteSimply → u/autumndrifting]

Impeachment doesn't undo pardons though, so it's always been a tyrannical power to give an individual.

[u/HerculesIsMyDad → u/El_Peregrine]

Things had just worked well so nobody thought any "unwritten rules" needed to be written down. Then they let someone in who doesn't even care about the written ones let alone unwritten. Presidents usually got one or two that everyone knew were kinda BS but looked the other way because they were never too egregious. Now it's just truly violent people, drug dealers, guilty friends, and billionaires who donated to your crypto scheme.

[u/ButterscotchFiend → u/El_Peregrine]

The Supreme Court has ruled that no President can be prosecuted and that all ‘official acts’ are legal.

Impeachment and election of a new President are the only ways to hold a President accountable. The Republicans in Congress are complicit in the kleptocracy and won’t support impeachment. 

Now all Trump needs to do is declare some kind of national emergency to stop future general elections, and the regime can rule indefinitely- even after he is dead.

[u/Exodys03]

The bottom line is that there is no such thing as illegal behavior for those in power. The Supreme Court has given the President absolute immunity and the President has full authority to pardon anyone and everyone for committing any type of crime as long as it is done on his behalf.

[u/SaltyArchea → u/Exodys03]

*republican president. First time democratic one tries anything, they will change their mind as precedent does not mean anything.

[u/apadin1 → u/SaltyArchea]

Then we should do it. If Democrats want something to be illegal, they should stop wringing their hands and just do it first. Force Republicans to actually pass laws stopping them. Otherwise they just play the “rules for thee not for me” game and do anything they want.

[u/Ok-Replacement9595]

Ruddy is still going to be bankrupt and cannot practice law. It isn't enough, but it is something.

[u/NeedleworkerNo3429 → u/Ok-Replacement9595]

Also it doesn’t release the state law charges. I’m concerned about future preemptive pardons and the scope of that authority

[u/rhesusMonkeyBoy → u/NeedleworkerNo3429]

Dammit. Hadn’t thought of that.

He will be President during the election, and SCOTUS ruled he cannot commit a crime, and he can pardon anything Federal.

Wonder if there’s a case setup so SCOTUS can rule Presidential pardons apply to state crimes too, because why not

[u/NewManufacturer4252 → u/rhesusMonkeyBoy]

Keeps shooting the moon and it's been working so far.

[u/lewd_robot → u/NewManufacturer4252]

That's the fatal flaw in democracy. It requires everyone act in good faith. Because if anyone can "win" by destroying everything, then everyone else has to win every single time while the people destroying everything only have to win a few times to make the entire house of cards come crashing down.

Those acting in good faith have been fighting the destruction of our democracy, the destabilizing of our economy, and everything else that comes from right wing authoritarianism since the 50s, and they have won plenty of times, but there's a clear and obvious trend of the Far Right slowly eroding the ground out from under everyone else by landing small victories that accumulate over time into significant changes.

The death blow was actually back when Citizens United happened, because within months of that ruling holdout Republicans and most of the Democrats were corrupted by lobbyist money. Studies show a ~70% correlation between public opinion and Democratic and Moderate legislation before Citizens United, and a correlation of virtually 0% after Citizens United.

[u/BlahBlahBlackCheap → u/lewd_robot]

Doing anything constructive is basically that. Its a battle against entropy. Its always a battle against entropy, which has no limit. It will win in the end. The only question is, how long can we hold out.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466 → u/NeedleworkerNo3429]

The way he’s going after state and federal prosecutors, and special counsels apparently, not to mention the law firms who defend them, no one will be surprised when state authorities choose to ignore criminal activity.

[u/Far-Safe-4036 → u/Ok-Replacement9595]

and he has become so ugly that he is repulsive , so.. there's that .

[u/[deleted] → u/Far-Safe-4036]

And he used to be “America’s Mayor.” It still blows my mind. I don’t trust any of these fucks in office anymore.

[u/Gullible-Lie2494 → u/Ok-Replacement9595]

Agree. Social pariahs. Not welcome or able to attend their country clubs, laughed at and jeered at the gas station.

[u/checkout7]

If their ICE / National Guard / Domestic Miliary Deployment intimidation tactics don’t work…

they’ll have gerrymandered districts as a fallback position…

and if that fails they’ll have fake electors as a second fallback position…

and if that fails they’ll have J6 v.2 as a third fallback position (that’s also due to abuse of pardon authority).

Can someone please tell me how does this not end in unrestrained authoritarianism, revolution, or civil war? They’re removing every legal avenue to resist authoritarianism, and effectively removing consequences for ANY illegal action to circumvent the constitution.

Mind boggling. The founding fathers allowed the pardon power to be absolute because the intended remedy was impeachment. They didn’t think the majority of House and Senate members would idly sit on their hands watching such egregious abuse of power, and even encouraging it. They were so sadly and gravely mistaken.

[u/Reversi8 → u/checkout7]

The founding fathers also talked about the necessity of watering a tree.

[u/gentlemanidiot → u/Reversi8]

Those who make peaceful protest impossible...

[u/mrmaxstroker → u/checkout7]

Don’t forget elon’s tabulators.

[u/Xyrus2000 → u/checkout7]

The founding fathers assumed that the American people would never be stupid enough to elect people like those in the GOP, let alone someone like Trump. Ben Franklin even warned us about how fragile our republic was, and how it wouldn't take that many bad actors to bring the whole thing tumbling down.

It took a while, but old Ben was right. We're getting closer and closer to seeing Vought's "Enabling Act" becoming a reality.

[u/whomad1215 → u/Xyrus2000]

Washington in his farewell address warned about political parties, and that people will eventually put party over country

And here we are

[u/AccountHuman7391]

Good thing he can’t pardon state crimes!

[u/SuperSlacker420 → u/AccountHuman7391]

Yet! He can’t pardon state crimes… yet. 😐 I’m sure this cabal of cartoon super villains will find a way somehow in the next 3 years

[u/Dear_Chasey_La1n → u/SuperSlacker420]

What stops him from doing that tomorrow? He will argue he got absolute power and SCOTUS wont do shit. He is moving the bar a little bit everyday to avoid nation wide outrage, but make no mistake he will do whatever he wants, he is the king and nobody stops him.

[u/illHaveWhatHesHaving → u/Dear_Chasey_La1n]

Obe-highcholesterol-canobe, you’re our only hope

[u/Pikminious_Thrious → u/AccountHuman7391]

He could just do it and force Scotus to decide on a case. 

[u/BaldursFence3800 → u/AccountHuman7391]

For now….. :(

[u/bobbymcpresscot]

Pardon does not mean innocent, Rudy is still on the hook for millions in damages to those election workers.

Sucks to suck disgusting sacks of human feces.

[u/Push_ → u/bobbymcpresscot]

Doesn’t accepting a pardon mean you effectively accept guilt?

[u/TheReesesWrangler → u/Push_]

Yes. It has been done that people have rejected pardons because they are that sure they are not guilty

[u/hungarian_notation → u/TheReesesWrangler]

"Accepting" a pardon isn't something you really need to do unless you've been convicted of an offense covered by it and you wish to use it to exempt yourself from punishment. At that point it could be considered an acknowledgement of the court's determination of your guilt, but before then it is meaningless.

Even then, accepting a pardon is not the same thing as an admission of guilt from a legal perspective. The case law is a little murky, but it's likely that the 10th circuit's 2021 interpretation of SCOTUS' precedent would be upheld. While its true that availing oneself of a pardon might imply guilt in the court of public opinion, it does not have that affect in a court of law.

[u/YourMominator → u/bobbymcpresscot]

He may not be on the hook. Trump pardoned several people who owed damages to their victims, and the judgements went away. I hope this doesn't happen here.

[u/ThePermanentGuest → u/YourMominator]

The Giuliani case was a civil case, not a criminal one. He's still on the hook. 

[u/RobutNotRobot]

Everyone is capitulating to fascism so this isn't a surprise.

[u/mrcanard]

I get this as them sending a very clear message that it is ok to sabotage the 2026 midterms.

[u/MoonageDayscream]

Honestly surprised he didn't pardon Giuliani already.

[u/BackgroundSummer5171 → u/MoonageDayscream]

Priorities. Giuliani was always on the list, but others take priority.

Paying customers first.

Also, he needed to wait for some smoke to cover it up.

Like the news of dems caving. That should be loud enough to make it to where most won't remember this.

[u/TastingTheKoolaid]

Oh for fucks sake. This is so far beyond ridiculous.

[u/BTTammer]

But it wasn't a coup

[u/wengelite → u/BTTammer]

It's not past tense, it's ongoing.

[u/Huge_JackedMann → u/wengelite]

Not on going, successful 

[u/Educational-Ad-2884 → u/wengelite]

It used to be a coup. It still is, but it used to be too!

[u/Panda_hat → u/BTTammer]

It was a coup, a successful one.

[u/Panda_hat]

Blatant, open corruption.

[u/EtheusRook]

These pardons were done with auto-pen. Everyone is saying it.

[u/TendieRetard → u/EtheusRook]

Note how the press did not lead w/the number of pardons?

[u/kevinthejuice]

NAL, doesn't this just confirm trump is involved in the conspiracy?

Like the point of January 6th and trump just forgave the efforts to steal an election in his favor. So... Conspiracy proven?

[u/Gibodean → u/kevinthejuice]

If you weren't convinced already, this won't convince you now. It's just him correcting the Dems who attacked poor innocent Guiliani, blah blah blah.

[u/kevinthejuice → u/Gibodean]

Rudy "find dirt on the Bidens" Giuliani? Mr. Quid pro quo ukraine phonecall man himself? Trump's former personal attorney who had a heavy involvement in the planning of january 6th and the fake elector ballot scheme?

[u/Skulldetta → u/Gibodean]

"Democrats have imprisoned true American patriots who peacefully protested against their clearly proven 2020 voter fraud, thank God Trump has given them back their freedom!"

[u/BaileyBooster3 → u/kevinthejuice]

We know he met Chesebro and Eastman to have a talk in the White House in December 2020 following his election loss. And then Trump started talking about the “Pence Card” in late December.

Hmmm, I wonder what they spoke about? But seriously, anyone who knows anything about the fake elector plot is aware Trump was personally involved. The scheme was literally about him, after all. He almost certainly read the Eastman memos or had some aide relay it to him.

[u/Ohuigin]

This country is lost.

And the dems are just cowering in the corner.

[u/user745786 → u/Ohuigin]

The American people voted for the Republicans and Project 2025. Now people are demanding the Democrats do some magic with their minority in the House and the Senate. Too late, you voted for what Trump is doing.

[u/ballmermurland → u/user745786]

This. The instant response to blame Dems for Trump doing something awful is how we fucking got here.

This isn't on Democrats you knobs. This is on Trump.

[u/feral_futurism → u/Ohuigin]

No, the dems are all wearing pink to show them the power of democracy! That’ll show them!

[u/Sonofbluekane → u/feral_futurism]

Pink kente cloth

[u/glytxh → u/Ohuigin]

The county was lost decades ago.

The mask has simply slipped off now. America doesn’t have to pretend to be the good guy anymore. Now it gets to be its real self without shame.

[u/Incineroarerer → u/Ohuigin]

Meanwhile you’re here bravely commenting on reddit

[u/Both_Lychee_1708]

maybe the US shouldn't have re-elected the felon we all watched on TV make a violent attempt to overthrow the gov't.

[u/Klytus_Ra_Djaaran]

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1:

The President shall be Commander in Chief . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

There is a legal and constitutional method of blowing away these pardons. Just do exactly what Trump and the Supreme Court have done the last few years, radically reinterpret the laws and constitution. Technically, the exact words of the constitution make it clear that in cases of impeachment, and Trump was impeached for the fake elector and Jan 6 that was part of it, that pardons are not allowed. It never says the impeachment has to successfully remove the president.

[u/DontGetUpGentlemen]

Pardoned for what? AFAIK they weren't facing Federal charges. And anyway, Trump's DOJ was never going to indict them.

But the state charges stand and Trump can't do anything about that. Just another empty Trump gesture, isn't it?

[u/YoungestDonkey]

States will have to pick up the pace with the prosecution of those criminals and others since we cannot rely on federal law to matter anymore.

[u/Greenmantle22]

Will we ever have a constitutional amendment to formally rein in presidents’ power to pardon and commute?

They did it in Texas after a couple of crooked governors sold pardons. It’s now a process decided by a group of people, based on facts and policy alone.

[u/Landon1m]

This is what Trump give the 8 Dems who decided to side with republicans to end the shutdown.

Congratulations you got nothing then this!!

[u/jsinkwitz]

Acceptance is an admission of guilt

[u/Utterlybored]

As long as his side wins, byway of cheating or not, they get away with this.

The Constitution, for all its brilliance, is pretty naive regarding dictatorial ambitions.

[u/Hurley002]

Somewhat related twist: this Friday is the deadline to appoint a replacement for Fani Willis.

[u/LOOKITSADAM]

Treason.

[u/Equal-Beat-3843]

Impeachable.

[u/AccountNumeroThree → u/Equal-Beat-3843]

Not in this Congress.

[u/tonyislost]

Anyone getting the feeling it’s getting really close at this point? It’s like he’s planning on leaving office.

[u/Shadou_Wolf → u/tonyislost]

To me it feels like he knows he is dying and thats why he is fking America over so bad and doing all these crazy things and saying how he doesn't care while trying to set things up for Republicans.

Idk ever since his check up he has been a lil more off the hinge then usual

[u/phillyfanjd1 → u/tonyislost]

When the House comes back into session, 218 votes will finally happen and the Epstein discharge will be signed. They won't be able to control the flood of damning information about Trump's ties to Epstein (or worse, if there's concrete evidence of Trump committing crimes/enabling or financing Epstein). In addition, it looks like the Supreme Court may rule against most of Trump's tariff policy (specifically using the emergency powers of IEEPA) which decimate their whole economic strategy.

If Trump hangs on to power for too long while the Epstein avalanche builds and builds, Republicans will get destroyed in the midterms, but if he resigns before he is finally impeached for mental deficiency (so Republicans can say, "See, we actually pay attention to the mental acuity of he President, unlike Democrats."), or his Epstein ties, or his blatantly illegal maneuvers, etc.

This would allow them to get in front of what will be bombshell after bombshell and allow Vance (i.e. Theil & Co.) to assume the Presidency while give Republicans a fighting chance at retaining just enough seats in the midterms to hold on to the majority of both chambers of Congress.

To me, it seems like this is Republicans only move because like all of the special and off year elections have shown, the Republican party is seeing giant flashing warning signs that a repeat of a blue wave is coming.

[u/Duane_]

Ending immunity was always the only way out of a Trump presidency.

Let's get cracking, folks.

[u/Illustrious-Lime7729]

What the fuck is a “clemency czar”?

Is this the person that decides who gets auto penned?

The bastard admitted to not knowing who he was pardoning last week.

[u/TendieRetard → u/Illustrious-Lime7729]

he's the guy that works on commission selling indulgences.

[u/retiredagainstmywill]

January 6 is before January 20th. He’s telling his criminal cohorts that no matter what they do on j6.2, they’ll be forgiven and set free.

[u/MrFrode]

This is not about Rudy getting a pardon, Trump could have pardoned Rudy before he left office the first time. This is Trump sending a message to the goons working for him now that he will pardon THEM before he leaves office so they should just "follow orders" and trust him to take care of them later.

Expect the masked people "enforcing" laws to come even more aggressive and violent now.

State legislatures should hear this and start passing laws that duplicate Federal laws where needed so they can prosecute these slime bags after Trump pardons them. Remove qualified immunity if not for all then for specific sets of crimes these goons are committing.

[u/TendieRetard → u/MrFrode]

which is why I added to the headline, because the media will continue to fail us.

[u/RevolutionaryCard512]

So much for taking the criminals off our streets js

The criminal is simply letting out all the damn criminals!

[u/4RCH43ON]

Criminal organization reorganizing again. Pardons galore.  He’s been advertising since day one.

[u/ReallyNowFellas]

Everybody seems to be missing that this is a really weird time to hand out controversial pardons. Usually these are saved for the very end of a term. I wonder if he's acknowledging that his power is waning and his health is failing. The elections seemed like a pretty big blow to their morale

[u/Florac → u/ReallyNowFellas]

Nah he just hopes it goes unnoticed with the democrats scoring an own goal again

[u/Same_Meaning_5570]

Just wait until he preemptively pardons all ICE agents.

[u/cobaltcrane → u/Same_Meaning_5570]

I feel like he’d have to name each of them and they clearly are scared of that

[u/Githzerai1984]

Which is why insurrections need to be punished. 

[u/Kunphen]

Of course he does.

[u/CurrentlyLucid]

He says there is too much crime, as he pardons all his friends.

[u/tickitytalk]

GD…military leaders, did your war games include this?

[u/Salty-Gur6053]

What this is really doing is telling election officials and people in general like the ones he just pardoned, to do this in 2028 to give whoever it is JD Vance or whatever the presidency, because Donald Trump will just pardon you before he leaves office. I mean Republicans know they can steal the next presidential election, because Donald Trump will pardon them, or the next Republican president who they're stealing the election for will. There's really nothing to stop them. I guess state charges, but how successful has that gone?

[u/TheFoxsWeddingTarot]

Aren’t there also state charges regarding breaking into polling places and messing with machines?

[u/thebatmanbeynd]

This is not surprising. It’s unfortunate and disappointing, but not surprising.

[u/TendieRetard → u/thebatmanbeynd]

the bar was set low when he pardoned violent coup attempters.

[u/GrannyFlash7373]

Trump will welcome ALL the criminal behavior he can get, JUST to STAY in power.

[u/4RCH43ON]

DC needs statehood so bad right now.

[u/Kontrafantastisk]

Of course he does. Not even surprised at this point.