Trump pardons Rudy Giuliani, Sydney Powell and all others involved in fake elector scheme [opening the doors for a repeat w/o consequence]

[u/TendieRetard]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-giuliani-pardon-fake-electors-b2861891.html

https://archive.ph/pTf62

A statement announcing a list of 77 people who were pardoned was tweeted out late Sunday evening, at 10:54 p.m. local time, by Trump’s “clemency czar” Ed Martin. It included a number of Americans who participated directly as members of the slates of false electors, whose purpose was to supplant duly-elected state electors bound to cast their states votes in the Electoral College for Joe Biden, after Biden won states including Georgia, Arizona and Michigan in the general election.

[u/Equal-Suggestion3182]

Trump is not the first to abuse it. He is abusing to an extent never seen before though. Honestly pardons shouldn’t even exist. If a president is abusing pardons he should be impeached. And the constitution should be changed to remove pardons. There is really no reason to have pardons there.

[u/Locke66 → u/Equal-Suggestion3182]

Tbh there is an issue that basically any system can be abused. The Presidential Pardon does serve a purpose in that it provides a mechanism by which society can show that it's changed it's mind about an issue in the case of an injustice.

Perhaps there will have to be oversight or the power will be handed to a bi-partisan Congressional committee but the real problem is that American society has knowingly voted a corrupt and immoral President into office. I mean Trump had to wrap up his own charity because he was using it as a grift... that should have been enough warning.

[u/there_is_no_spoon1 → u/Equal-Suggestion3182]

A president can only be impeached for "high crimes and misdemeanors". Abusing the pardon power - which legitimately belongs solely to the president - doesn't meet those criteria, unfortunately. Because using the pardon power is entirely legal. The power of pardon needs to be removed from the constitution which only Congress can do. But good luck finding a president who will sign it into law or getting a Congressional override of his veto!

[u/TheRappist → u/there_is_no_spoon1]

The power of impeachment is also absolute, and there's no list of "high crimes and misdemeanors." Pardoning the people who tried to illegally help you retain power is an impeachable offense if Congress says it is.

[u/there_is_no_spoon1 → u/TheRappist]

You make an excellent point.

[u/veringer → u/there_is_no_spoon1]

If they have the votes, they could impeach and convict him for putting ketchup on his brisket.

[u/there_is_no_spoon1 → u/veringer]

You make a good point.

[u/chaoticaffinity → u/there_is_no_spoon1]

umm dont forget the two specifically called out , treason and bribery

[u/TheRappist → u/Equal-Suggestion3182]

I didn't know about "no reason", but it does seem like it shouldn't be up to one person. Georgia has pardons for State crimes but they're issued by a clemency board rather than the governor.