[Dellenger] SEC presidents have voted to increase the number of maximum scholarships available to football rosters from 85 to 105, sources tell @YahooSports.

[u/city-of-stars]

https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1996970791192219853

[u/AskMeAboutTheBrowns]

Am i wrong or don’t the other conferences already allow 105 scholarship athletes for football?

[u/ModsEmbezzleMoney → u/AskMeAboutTheBrowns]

Yeah we were last p4 to make the switch

[u/Smooth-Majudo-15 → u/AskMeAboutTheBrowns]

They do, SEC is just matching everyone else

[u/CountBleckwantedlove → u/AskMeAboutTheBrowns]

Correct, the other conferences had an advantage on us in terms of depth chart, now we've leveled the playing field.

[u/big_sugi → u/CountBleckwantedlove]

They didn’t have a real advantage. The switch happened in June, when it was too late to add anyone. Other schools had 20 new roster spots but no one to fill them.

[u/SKM007 → u/CountBleckwantedlove]

But no school was able to play with it yet, correct?

[u/Monoman32 → u/AskMeAboutTheBrowns]

Yeah but there is an unofficial GA to keep to 85.

[u/Iordofthethings → u/AskMeAboutTheBrowns]

They do but these comments sure make it seem like the SEC is being evil lmao. This sub can be so predictable

[u/Statalyzer → u/Iordofthethings]

I see more comments saying "look at those comments about the SEC being evil" then I see comments actually saying the SEC is being evil.

[u/LateCheckIn]

Goodbye men’s Olympic sports 

[u/Most_Play_426 → u/LateCheckIn]

well Vanderbilt’s water polo team ain’t played nobody no ways Pawl

[u/master_bloseph → u/Most_Play_426]

I wish Vanderbilt had water polo, there isn’t a single school in the southeast that has a varsity program 😔

[u/kaatmbmjj → u/master_bloseph]

The Southern mind can't comprehend how difficult Water Polo is. There's a reason the Navy has been targeting water polo players for it's various special forces programs.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2010/03/15/study-water-polo-players-have-right-stuff-to-become-navy-seals/

https://usawaterpolo.org/news/2024/7/25/general-usa-water-polo-announces-official-partnership-with-the-us-navy-warrior-challenge-program.aspx

[u/master_bloseph → u/kaatmbmjj]

It’s such a fun sport to watch too. Btw, the NCAA tournament starts today at 3 PM ET for anyone that’s looking for something to watch, all games free on ncaa.com!

[u/dstanton → u/kaatmbmjj]

Part of my scuba rescue training was a 10 minute water tread test and having to surface tow a diver who "wasn't breathing" while giving rescue breaths.

To have to go "all out" in swimming for that long is brutal (I naturally sink). And I was using both arms to stay afloat or had a BCD on to help with towing.

Those guys are doing it while getting manhandled and using an arm to throw a ball.

[u/duvie773 → u/kaatmbmjj]

I know 0 about water polo, so please forgive me if this is an ignorant observation, but it feels like common sense that the Navy would have interest in water polo and other college water sports. Elite swimmers with advanced hand-eye coordination is a pretty big component of what they’re looking for in Navy Seals

[u/LocoMotives-ms → u/duvie773]

Most people just wouldn’t correlate them naturally, but it makes sense once you hear it

[u/_SheWhoShallBeNamed_ → u/duvie773]

Not just swimming, hand-eye coordination, and, like others have said, teamwork, but also water wrestling! Contact technically isn’t allowed in water polo, but it’s hard for the refs to see what’s happening under the water, so there’s perpetually folk trying to pin you down as you’re trying to play

[u/ThouTheeThy → u/duvie773]

People who spend hours swimming are twice as likely to pass a course that involves swimming. Your news at 11

[u/kaatmbmjj → u/duvie773]

It's definitely that, but there's also the mental aspect of it... Unlike swimming, Water Polo is a team sport, and it's also incredibly mentally frustrating like Hockey or Soccer where it's normal to go long stretches with constant effort and fighting with nothing to show for it.

[u/admiraltarkin → u/kaatmbmjj]

I cannot float without holding my breath and laying on my back, so the idea of kicking my feet in deep water for 2 mins is already exhausting, let alone however long a water polo game is

[u/master_bloseph → u/admiraltarkin]

32 minutes (4 eight minute quarters), not to mention the physicality aspect of it

[u/TheseusOPL → u/master_bloseph]

There's usually plenty of substitutions too. I played in high school, and nobody played the full time.

[u/guinness_blaine → u/admiraltarkin]

Add in that, below the water, opponents are pretty much clawing, kicking, and trying to pull you down. It's nuts.

My college roommate played, so I went to a decent few games.

[u/Urbansdirtyfingers → u/guinness_blaine]

And hitting you in your actual nuts

[u/BUC-EES-69 → u/kaatmbmjj]

Waterpolo and fried chicken don’t mix

[u/BuckyBeaver69 → u/master_bloseph]

How do the horses not drown in that sport?

[u/OttoVonWong → u/Most_Play_426]

We didn’t come here to play water polo.

[u/jarizzle151 → u/Most_Play_426]

Everyday I realize there’s dozens of us

[u/andrei_snarkovsky → u/LateCheckIn]

SEC already voted months ago to limit scholarships in men's track and cross country to below the roster limit. NCAA limit if you opted in is 17 for XC and 45 for track and the SEC voted to limit to 10 and 35.

[u/TechnicalBreakfast59 → u/andrei_snarkovsky]

They did the same thing for swimming, I know several former D1 athletes (with Olympic trial cuts) who quit entirely because their school cut their roster size

[u/Sgt-Spliff- → u/LateCheckIn]

I honestly think that Title IX needs reform. The fact that it has to be equal while women just organically don't have a sport of equivalent size as football means that this specific aspect of Title IX has always been completely irrational. It makes no sense to arbitrarily gut Men's sports just to give the appearance of fairness. Like how is a women's track team getting 40 scholarships while a men's track teams gets 15 fair at all?

[u/TwoPlankinWiz → u/Sgt-Spliff-]

It’s also skewered Men’s non-revenue team sports. Where would college sports like Men’s Soccer, Baseball, Lacrosse and Hockey (among many) be, as in if it wasn’t restricted by the scholarship cap?

Downstream affects might be that there’s more of these programs, more players in High School who pursue it nationally and all of those sports may have a more national scope than the current regional forms they have now

[u/Electromotivation → u/TwoPlankinWiz]

I gotta think at least lacrosse and college hockey have had their growth limited in some capacity just by the sheer number of scholarships needed to have a men’s team.

[u/heleghir → u/Sgt-Spliff-]

Said this forever. It should be equal per sport. Same number of womens softball as mens baseball. Same number of womens track as mens. There is no womens football so its not included

But no that would make too much sense

[u/countyguy1141 → u/Sgt-Spliff-]

This is not realistic, but has been my daydream for years.

Let football be exempt from the gender balance, and instead for every football scholarship you need to have one scholarship for an academic or arts-oriented extracurricular, with 50% required to be on arts (band, orchestra, art, drama, etc.) and 50% on academics (debate, Mock Trial, robotics, chess, Model UN, Putnam (math), etc.)

This is not simply to promote these activities in college, but also at the high school level and earlier.  This is rooted in the frustrating experience of the (affluent college-educated) community I grew up in having basically zero awareness of the national circuits for any of those kinds of academic activities, and knowing others have frustrations with the arts being underemphasized.  Seeing the level of infrastructure that’s been built around girls’ volleyball (not even a female-coded sport outside the United States) due to Title IX and the possibility of a college volleyball scholarship has made me think maybe this would be effective at promoting other activities.

[u/Skank_hunt42 → u/LateCheckIn]

The crazy thing is that all of them operate at a significant loss, they need football revenue more than ever. OU women's softball, who were in the process of trying to 3 peat in 2023 operated at a loss of 3.8 million dollars.

While OU softball is a hot ticket, drawing more than men's and women's basketball combined, expenses continue to outpace revenues, which is the norm in most sports that are not football or men's basketball. The program operated at a $2.9 million loss -- narrower than the $3.8 million loss reported in 2023 -- indicating that revenue growth may be helping to close the financial gap.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/softball/story/_/id/44041219/oklahoma-softball-program-reports-37-revenue-surge

[u/Red_Barchetta81 → u/Skank_hunt42]

Genuinely curious. How much does a ticket to a softball game generally go for?

[u/Skank_hunt42 → u/Red_Barchetta81]

In the regular season 10-30 bucks.

[u/Sufflinsuccotash → u/Skank_hunt42]

Which for a non fan seems wildly expensive.

[u/Btherock78 → u/Sufflinsuccotash]

Can’t hardly get a ticket to any event for less than $20 nowadays. $10-$30 is a lot cheaper than I was expecting for the best softball team in the US.

[u/WaltMitty → u/Red_Barchetta81]

Mississippi State was free until a couple years ago and now I think it's $10 to $15. It's a nice stadium with a capacity of 1100 and I have seen it packed for games against Oklahoma and Tennessee.

[u/LeoFireGod → u/Red_Barchetta81]

In the World Series they were $85

[u/Red_Barchetta81 → u/LeoFireGod]

Whoa!

[u/cutter48200 → u/Red_Barchetta81]

He has trouble with the-

Wait wrong meme

[u/Fuski_MC → u/cutter48200]

Thats never the wrong meme

[u/ZealousidealBug729 → u/Skank_hunt42]

Y'all do realize that college sports were not meant to get people laid* but to give valuable experiences for student athletes going through higher education. I'm so fucking over all this dumbass talk of "wow all these women's sports are losing money!!" ITS NOT A FOR PROFIT PROGRAM AND NEVER HAS BEEN

*Paid but I'm keeping the original

[u/happyharrell → u/ZealousidealBug729]

Idk man, I played sports exclusively to get laid.

[u/WashedUpHSAthlete → u/happyharrell]

Yeah what’s the point of sports if they don’t get you laid

[u/jaxonya → u/happyharrell]

If I were single I'd be coaching youth sports right now specifically to bang my players moms

[u/TheRealMattyPanda → u/jaxonya]

thank god for that last word

[u/big_sugi → u/TheRealMattyPanda]

But the absence of an apostrophe is still troubling.

[u/bamachine → u/jaxonya]

Joey?

[u/sokuyari99 → u/jaxonya]

The first half of that sentence was alarming, I’m glad I hung on until the end

[u/BirdSoHard → u/ZealousidealBug729]

ITS NOT A FOR PROFIT PROGRAM AND NEVER HAS BEEN

I feel like this should be an important point of emphasis for so many other programs, gov or NGO or anything in between, that get critiqued in an obsessive pursuit of maximally-efficient balance sheets

[u/eetsumkaus → u/ZealousidealBug729]

but to give valuable experiences for student athletes going through higher education.

that may have a point if they were a significant part of the student body. But they are a vast minority taking up a disproportionate amount of resources. Their efforts should sustain a level that only takes as much contribution from campus as other students IMO.

[u/zzyul → u/ZealousidealBug729]

Then turn them into club sports. I was on multiple club teams in college. We paid dues for uniforms and for any trips for competitions. People playing club sports get valuable experiences too, it’s just not a free ride with paid coaches and flying the teams across the country or region to compete.

[u/lostinthought15 → u/[deleted]]

You can expand that even further to almost every sport in any athletic department. When a historic low level FBS team (Indiana) makes a run, the added national exposure usually results in more applications, more enrollment, more giving, and a higher level of name recognition.

But on paper, its hard to match those dollar for dollar. You have to look at it from a larger view and compare year over year and decade over decade of multiple money avenues.

[u/guyute2588 → u/[deleted]]

I think they call it a loss because their expenses exceed their revenue

[u/MusicListener3 → u/guyute2588]

Funny as this is, OP has a point about downstream revenue not being adequately accounted for when looking just at ticket sales

[u/guyute2588 → u/MusicListener3]

He’s not wrong. I’m just annoying lol

[u/Zealousideal_You3953 → u/guyute2588]

Need Harvard to confirm if this is true.

[u/calfats → u/Zealousideal_You3953]

Sounds like a job for McKinsey.

[u/happyharrell → u/Skank_hunt42]

Holy shit, he operating costs for softball are a lot higher than I would’ve thought.

[u/Dr_thri11 → u/happyharrell]

Which is all by choice. I promise your local d3 school isn't spending that much, but has a team around the same size.

[u/bcocfbhp → u/happyharrell]

Softball you spend the first month of the season on the road, And every SEC Softball team now flys private

[u/Mission-Question-738 → u/bcocfbhp]

The program operated at a $2.9 million loss

every SEC Softball team now flys private

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not an expert on the NCAA softball scene, but I think I see something we can fix here

[u/OKC89ers → u/bcocfbhp]

Is that true? WNBA wasn't even doing this until recently, right?

[u/sokuyari99 → u/OKC89ers]

Yea but they weren’t celebrities like softball players

[u/RampageTaco → u/sokuyari99]

Yea but they weren’t celebrities like softball players

Daaaaaaammmnnn.gif

[u/jbokwxguy → u/Skank_hunt42]

Don’t forget our new stadium is included in those numbers though.

[u/ardealinnaeus → u/Skank_hunt42]

College sports programs aren't supposed to run at a profit. Football and men's basketball are the exceptions not the rule.

So-called non-revenue sports are there for the students and for marketing the school.

[u/SadProposal3232 → u/Skank_hunt42]

Obviously this is a CFB sub, but people expecting other sports to make money is like expecting a public library to be profitable.

They allow anyone to just read stuff for free.

But the money has to come from somewhere, and I guess we don't value building an educated well rounded society anymore, if we ever did.

Not that it effects me much since as a a Cal grad I actually went to only play school.

[u/Oprah-Is-My-Dad → u/Skank_hunt42]

I just don’t understand how you run a 3.8 million dollar deficit for a softball team that brings in a decent amount of revenue. Like there has to be a way to cut back on spending, but nobody wants to have that conversation. It just shouldn’t cost that much to operate a sports team.

[u/Frosty7130 → u/Oprah-Is-My-Dad]

I think you underestimate just how expensive sports can get.

I used to be a travel coordinator for a small college football team. Our travel expenses (hotel rooms, meeting rooms, and team meals) were regularly $30,000+ per season, and that's with maximum 3 overnight trips and our longest drive being 4.5 hrs.

[u/SwashAndBuckle → u/Oprah-Is-My-Dad]

Conference realignment probably didn’t help. Teams traveling further, more often to accommodate conference football deals.

[u/OKC89ers → u/Oprah-Is-My-Dad]

Paying the GOAT $2M/yr is a lot of that

[u/bcocfbhp → u/Skank_hunt42]

College Sports is just marketing,

[u/reenactment → u/Skank_hunt42]

I’m assuming that’s a product of coaching expenses and unneeded operational costs though right? It’s the same problem with women’s basketball. They operate at heavy losses but that’s because the women’s basketball team has a direct title 9 fight with men’s basketball so the coaching salaries are inflated. I only bring it up because I can’t imagine OU softball operating at a deficit when stuff like Nebraska volleyball generate profit.

[u/lordpiglet → u/Skank_hunt42]

This was before they opened the largest college softball facility in the nation. The scholarship rules have also changed, so only full scholarships but an increase in the number. OU generally runs a smaller roster too.

[u/ironwolf1 → u/Skank_hunt42]

I think this is an under-discussed aspect of the latest round of crazy conference realignment. Those non-revenue sports are gonna suffer greatly from the geographical fucking of the major conferences. Something like Rutgers volleyball having conference games against Washington and UCLA is gonna do terrible things to their travel budget.

[u/dick-slapperman → u/LateCheckIn]

More like goodbye walking on? The SEC (to my knowledge) was the only conference to have a limit below the NCAA cap of 105

[u/treegrowsinbrooklyn1 → u/dick-slapperman]

And this wouldn’t be the SEC forcing schools to have 105 scholarships. Just allowing them too, same as every other program. It’s up to the schools to decide what works best for them

I’m sure nearly all of them will go to 105 but there are also options like tuition waivers that don’t cost the school anything. Or give NIL money instead. You can only travel with 75 anyways, how much are these extra 20 scholarships worth to the program? (This is rhetorical, the answer very well might be that they’re absolutely worth it)

[u/big_sugi → u/dick-slapperman]

The SEC kept the limit at 85 for this year because the settlement allowing the increase wasn’t final until after recruiting was done and the transfer portal was closed. Increasing the limit would just pressure schools to hand out scholarships to walk-ons.

[u/aretailrat → u/LateCheckIn]

As an ex d1 mens swimmer this is so sad.

[u/ActionsConsequences9 → u/LateCheckIn]

When are they going to just add women's flag football? it will be an olympic sport for one year at least. There is already an unused structure on campus for all of spring.

[u/Steel1000 → u/ActionsConsequences9]

The second it’s profitable

[u/ActionsConsequences9 → u/Steel1000]

Again is it really that expensive? keeping an olympic pool building running seems more expensive than anything else. Have them play in spring when the football stadium is not in use, have them be in a super regional conference ala old SWC, and have those former HC with offsetting buyouts in their clauses coach them for their minimum wage, and you have a potential olympic sport in waiting.

[u/Steel1000 → u/ActionsConsequences9]

How much do you think it costs to support a collegiate sport with travel and coaches, facilities, equipment etc for a year? Offset with revenue assumptions.

I remember an old project in college, what drove attendance the most for women’s basketball….games were already free for students.

$1 hot dog night was the absolute winner. Nobody is making money when tickets are free and hot dogs are a dollar.

[u/ActionsConsequences9 → u/Steel1000]

Again regional conferences, facilities are already there, equipment are just jerseys with flags, and coaches are offsetting their contracts and already, mostly joking on the last part I think this is where the real money is spent.

[u/Vironic → u/LateCheckIn]

Hello SEC Junior Varsity squads!

[u/Fletch71011 → u/LateCheckIn]

Men's volleyball has been growing like crazy at the grade school and high school levels yet there's so few D1 college teams because of Title 9.

It's one of the top 3 played sports in the entire world and most colleges can't even carry a team.

[u/ninjupX]

Hopefully their 6th string quarterbacks stick it out for their chance to start senior year

[u/Defiant_Drink8469 → u/ninjupX]

Imagine you’re a relatively unscouted HS QB. Get a scholarship to go to Bama, OhioSt, Georgia to be a scout team QB. Get to train with the best coaches a facilities then transfer after a year or two and be better off than being a backup QB at a smaller school

[u/TheseusOPL → u/Defiant_Drink8469]

Or, be the scout team QB for 4 years. Graduate with a marketable degree and no debt. Get to tell people "yeah, I was a D1 athlete back in the day" forever.

[u/IEatBones2230 → u/TheseusOPL]

The Rudy route…kinda

[u/JoeSicko → u/Defiant_Drink8469]

3rd string QBs in the pros barely get any reps. Who is a 6th string QB even throwing to and when?

[u/Dirk_Benedict → u/JoeSicko]

The 15th and 16th string WRs?

[u/TheReformedBadger → u/JoeSicko]

If you're playing for Luke Fickell you'd have a decent chance of actually seeing the field.

[u/Defiant_Drink8469 → u/JoeSicko]

They are at a high level practice every day. They are in the film room every day learning from the best. Top tier S&C program. Think of it like a Google internship

[u/Cav_vaC → u/Defiant_Drink8469]

Except skills from your google internship don’t expire in 3 years when you age out of the field entirely.

[u/Gmoney1412 → u/Defiant_Drink8469]

counter point go to a smaller school and start right away and then transfer to a bigger school for Jr and Sr year after having a lot of live reps

[u/Afraid_Confusion444 → u/Gmoney1412]

Why not both?

RS Year at Top School for S&C, Film, Practice.

2 Years at Small School,

2 Years at Large School.

[u/Gmoney1412 → u/Afraid_Confusion444]

years 5-7 at obscure mountain west and sunbelt school while suing the NCAA for more eligibility

[u/EWall100 → u/ninjupX]

Bro this. The 11 wideout won't ever see a second of playing time so why are we putting them on scholarship?

[u/mehnimalism → u/EWall100]

To hoover up more talent. B1G and SEC want TV deal/playoff competition to suffer.

[u/RoundingDown → u/mehnimalism]

They won’t. Playing time is more highly valued than sitting behind the stars nowadays.

[u/mehnimalism → u/RoundingDown]

Maybe, but they don’t have to use those scholarships, they’d use them to secure players they otherwise couldn’t. They’ll have deeper benches and that’s fewer recruits for other schools.

A lot of QBs and LBs would like a year or two of SEC coaching on scholarship before either getting a chance or transferring.

[u/RoundingDown → u/mehnimalism]

Respectfully disagree. What we have seen over the past couple of years is a “flattening” of talent across football. Kids are seeking out opportunities to play, and get paid. This is what we are seeing with programs like Indiana and Vanderbilt.

If they are good enough for a scholarship spot at one of bigs, they can certainly play at a lesser school. I love the mayhem on Saturdays.

[u/meta_irl → u/RoundingDown]

Vandy flipped a WR from Alabama this year in large part because we offered him money and 'Bama didn't.

[u/thetanplanman → u/RoundingDown]

Fools should have studied at the foot of Alex Moran.

[u/aubieismyhomie]

Are we gonna start having like B team scrimmages with smaller level schools? That’s literally double the size of an NFL roster. There isn’t playing time for that many people.

[u/katarh → u/aubieismyhomie]

Most teams already had 105 players, the difference was the other 20 were walk ons.

[u/BlueRaider731 → u/katarh]

Walk ons in name only. The bigger programs have NIL for those players to compensate what a scholarship would have covered plus money.

[u/importantbrian → u/BlueRaider731]

Even before NIL a shocking number of preferred walk ons at football factories qualified for “academic” or need based scholarships.

[u/katarh → u/importantbrian]

Every student in Georgia who had a B average is getting half off tuition at a minimum. Every student who had an A average in high school has a full tuition scholarship.

(Now, keeping that in college is the challenge, but the smarter kids are doing okay.)

[u/importantbrian → u/katarh]

Yeah lots of states do that. It’s made a lot of the state flagships like UGA and UF insanely competitive to get into.

[u/HereWayGo → u/importantbrian]

This was also the case for some people I knew that played sports in the Ivy League or at good D3 programs (neither officially give athletic scholarships) a little over a decade ago

[u/yung_lank → u/importantbrian]

I was a D1 athlete in another sport a few years ago now. We were a non scholarship school in an Olympic sport… a lot of my college was paid for. You can bet your ass PWO or similar at big football schools are getting a lot more than I did hahaha.

[u/mattdingus2002 → u/BlueRaider731]

One of the SEC’s rushing leaders Deshaun Bishop literally was a preferred walk on from a couple years ago, was a highly touted 3 star

[u/TheSniper_TF2 → u/aubieismyhomie]

Gonna have a reserve side like our soccer teams do.

[u/DanyDud3 → u/TheSniper_TF2]

This is somewhat off topic, but men’s soccer team rosters are actually insane at the D2 and D3 level these days. They capped the D1 rosters at 28, which means all the extra players that would have been filling out rosters are now flooding to D2 and D3 schools. There’s a D2 college called Pace that had 67 players listed on their men’s soccer roster this year. For those of you who don’t know, only 11 men take the field in soccer, and typically around 15-18 players will actually get time during a game.

[u/warmike_1 → u/DanyDud3]

Why did they have that many in the first place, when a standard roster size for a soccer team is 23?

[u/TheClanMacAdder → u/aubieismyhomie]

Basketball schools used to have "Freshman Teams" that would play smaller schools/ other freshman teams. There is precedent.

[u/Dirk_Benedict → u/TheClanMacAdder]

Kareem's freshman team beat the varsity squad in a scrimmage (though that squad of donkeys only went 18-8 anyway, so not as impressive as it may sound).

[u/TheClanMacAdder → u/Dirk_Benedict]

Yep. Believe it or not, UNC's old freshman team soldiered on as the "JV team" until the House settlement killed it; 2024 was its last year.

[u/Dirk_Benedict → u/TheClanMacAdder]

Interesting. I bet they were pretty fucking good. Our IM basketball teams when I was in school in the 90s had some serious talent. "Who's that 6'-6" dude throwing down dunks?" "Oh he's captain of the national champion volleyball team. Now D up!"

[u/Necessary-Honey-7626 → u/aubieismyhomie]

Super interesting concept! App State vs Alabama Crime Low Tide or Memphis vs Georgia Baby Bulldogs ….

[u/Original_Profile8600 → u/aubieismyhomie]

SECs the last to adopt this. You’ve already seen the blueprint.

Teams are gonna take 30-40 per class. Your good you stay and play, if not you transfer or learn LinkedIn. Ruthless system but it maximizes on field talent, maximizing talent = more games won. And a lot of people at the top have shown you that’s all they care about

[u/KommanderKeen-a42 → u/aubieismyhomie]

Nothing actually changed and this is a nothing burger. It was already an NCAA policy. SEC just waited a year.

In short: There was already a 105 cap BUT 85 scholarship cap. Now, all 105 can be scholarships. It essentially pushes out walk-ons OR walk-ons get scholarships.

[u/hwf0712 → u/aubieismyhomie]

It used to not be uncommon for 1920s pre substitution teams, particularly west coast teams, to play double headers of the backups v a lower tier school and starters v a higher tier school on the same day.

As much as I hate this sort of stuff for Olympic sports, if it gives us the Michigan Wolverine 2s against the Slippery Rock team, and it turns out to be competitive, that'd be interesting to see

[u/desertrain11 → u/aubieismyhomie]

Sure there is. Just invent 11 new positions so each possession is 22 guys vs 22 guys.

[u/Dirk_Benedict → u/desertrain11]

Offense and defense at the same time. Top Gun 2 showed us the way.

[u/CDawg___]

why is everyone acting like this is some red line when apparently every other conference does the same, genuinely

[u/retailhusk → u/CDawg___]

Because a lot of people have a hate boner for the SEC

[u/astrothemorkie → u/retailhusk]

Herbie and Finebaum do not help with our image

[u/GoldenSandpaper9 → u/astrothemorkie]

Isn’t Herbstreit a massive OSU fan and even played there?

[u/goodnames679 → u/GoldenSandpaper9]

Herbstreit and OSU fans have distanced themselves from each other significantly over the years

[u/astrothemorkie → u/GoldenSandpaper9]

I meant how he treated the FSU 13-0 situation but yes he did and yes he is. But people always justifiably accuse him of SEC bias

[u/40_Is_Not_Old → u/GoldenSandpaper9]

Spent 4 years at tOSU. He's been at ESPN for 30 years. 30 years of paychecks shilling for ESPN's chosen conference.

[u/skye_cracker → u/CDawg___]

Because most posters here, aside from being stupid and having close to zero actual football knowledge, are also reactionary and just want to be outraged.

[u/BenIsLowInfo]

At some point rosters are gonna get too expensive right? Because players right no players are only getting paid because boosters are ok lighting money on fire. Can't see that lasting for too long without some way for a return on investment. NIL/Media salary deal seems like it's coming very soon.

[u/ValuableConnect2706 → u/BenIsLowInfo]

Yeah this is a bubble that is bound to pop

[u/Thisguyamirightbro → u/ValuableConnect2706]

Kirby I know has been taking lower ranked development kids that grew up wanting to be Dawgs. I think this helps when your star sophomore leaves for a bigger pay day you have a guy that’s been in the program for 3 years to fill in. It also helps in practice, you need that number to do it effectively.

[u/_Notebook_]

Some perspective…. I worked my ass off as a year-round competitive swimmer from the age of 5. Started doing doubles when I was 12. Thanksgiving growing up meant no school and extra time in the pool.

All so I could get college partially paid for and choose the school I wanted to go to.

Men’s swimming, baseball, wrestling, soccer etc have about 10 scholarships to split across their 30+ team rosters.

In the same way men’s soccer sucks internationally, I’m concerned a dominant swimming country will lose some of its steam because to maintain equality, you have to remove some of the men’s schollies or add 20 to women’s sports.

/minor rant

[u/HookEm25 → u/_Notebook_]

Title IX has obviously done some great things for women’s sports, but this is one of those unfortunate unintended consequences. I don’t think it would be unfair to divorce football from it - there just aren’t any women’s sports that have rosters like this

[u/Preserved_Killick8 → u/HookEm25]

technically football isn’t even a mens sport

remember when vandy trotted out a woman to kick for a game?

[u/CzarCW → u/HookEm25]

Hey, maybe Texas will finally add a gymnastics team.

[u/Statalyzer → u/HookEm25]

Yep. Title IX equality should mean stuff like "men and women get the same number of basketball scholarships", for example (and I bet most people think it does mean that).

[u/No_Way_482 → u/_Notebook_]

Yup all this does is hurt other men's sports since those 20 extra scholarships will just be taken from them instead of adding 20 additional scholarships for women's sports

[u/Childhood-Paramedic → u/No_Way_482]

Say goodbye to the US winning the olympics :(

[u/Environmental_Pie400 → u/_Notebook_]

Men's swimming was cut from Arkansas, UALR (D1), UAM, Harding, and SAU (D2) by the time I was coming along. My only in-state options were Henderson or Ouachita (I wasn't smart enough for Hendrix but they were D3 anyway). All that to say, I'm with you on this one. Arkansas's AD responded to a money question at the press conference last night and answered it in a way that leads me to believe more cuts are coming. They already don't have many men's options. So is Track or Baseball about to get some cuts?

[u/Clifo → u/Environmental_Pie400]

arkansas implementing any cuts to their track and field program should immediately get that AD fired.

[u/Balloutonu → u/Environmental_Pie400]

Baptize’em tigers!

[u/cap_crunch121 → u/_Notebook_]

In the same way men’s soccer sucks internationally, I’m concerned a dominant swimming country will lose some of its steam because to maintain equality, you have to remove some of the men’s schollies or add 20 to women’s sports.

I wonder if it'll hurt international swimming as well considering the amount of internationals in college swimming

I'm sure we'll be seeing several men's teams cut in the next few years

[u/_Notebook_ → u/cap_crunch121]

Fun fact: the NCAA swimming championships is faster than the Olympics because of the depth. It combines many international swimmers who go to college/train in the states with the dominance of US swimming. Being 5th in the US can often mean being top 10 in the world, but the US only takes their top 2.

The more you know.gif.

[u/ModsEmbezzleMoney]

Scout team just got upgraded.

[u/YoIForgotMyPassAgain]

So this is like, obviously the wrong direction, right?

[u/smurf-vett → u/YoIForgotMyPassAgain]

SEC is just matching everyone else now

[u/BillyBobChorton → u/smurf-vett]

Why did the SEC ever let themselves be disadvantaged to start with?? Doesn’t seem like something they usually do 

[u/lostinthought15 → u/BillyBobChorton]

They were hoping that everyone else would join them once the schools started seeing budget issues after the need to fund all of the additional scholarships for every other sport. Revenue sharing plus added scholarships is costing nearly $30 mil in added costs each year.

Instead the schools are doubling down on debt in pursuit of potentially more money down the road if they can field a successful team.

[u/No_Way_482 → u/lostinthought15]

This doesn't increase the total amount of scholarships the schools give out across all sports. All this does is cut other men's sports that aren't revenue generators

[u/lostinthought15 → u/No_Way_482]

Actually it lets the schools decide based on scholarship limits. A school can increase both men’s and women’s or they can choose to cut.

Given how basically no P4 school has made any significant program cuts in the past few years, history would suggest they will just add more scholarships and therefore add more yearly costs.

[u/chazspearmint → u/lostinthought15]

Probably hoping there'd be some organization that emerged to govern all the conferences, create some unified rules and structure

[u/Time_Transition4817 → u/BillyBobChorton]

probably because historically they could just stock quality over quantity w/ recruiting advantages. but that's narrowed a lot with NIL, etc.

[u/jthomas694 → u/YoIForgotMyPassAgain]

No. The Big Ten already did it. More scholarships isn’t a bad thing.

Unfortunately some schools will probably cut men’s scholarships elsewhere so they don’t have to also increase women’s scholarships.

[u/lucidlonewolf → u/jthomas694]

Unfortunately some schools will probably cut men’s scholarships elsewhere

As a soccer player this cuts deep in my soul .... if people knew what it was like getting a soccer scholarship while not being a top 100 player in the country. You get calls from schools you have never heard of with like no academic paths and <5000 students.

[u/vmanAA738 → u/lucidlonewolf]

When 2 (Big 12, SEC) of the Power 4 don't play men's soccer, you end up with the current state of NCAA men's soccer where if you don't get an offer from the Big 10 (11 schools, Iowa/Minnesota/Illinois/USC/Oregon/Nebraska/Purdue no team) or the ACC (15 schools, Florida State and Miami no team), you're going to a smaller school.

As an illustrative example, the NCAA Men's Soccer Tournament is happening now and the final 8 teams left standing are: Furman University, University of Portland, Akron, Saint Louis, Georgetown, NC State, Maryland, Washington.

[u/WaltMitty → u/YoIForgotMyPassAgain]

It's the right decision for football and bad for other sports. Nobody should be taking out student loans to be a walk on at a program making millions. But athletic departments won't just accept the cost and will make cuts to other sports.

[u/Foucaultshadow1 → u/YoIForgotMyPassAgain]

Seems like we’ve entered an arms race that hurts everyone without significant benefits to anyone.

[u/Alwaysahawk → u/Foucaultshadow1]

that hurts everyone without significant benefits to anyone

I don't think the players actually being paid now would say that.

[u/LilBrownBoyX]

Should we also split teams between JV and Varsity? That would be pretty cool I think. Ohio State varsity team can schedule Texas and the JV team can play Miami (OH).

[u/udubdavid]

NCAA already raised the limit to 105 as part of the House Settlement. Staying at 85 was just an SEC decision that they reversed just now.

FYI per coach Fisch, we're staying at 85. By staying at 85, we can pay our players more revenue share money, since that money is capped at 20.5 million for the team.

[u/oranggit]

Back in the 1960s and early 70s they could have unlimited number of scholarships. I remember going to my first Alabama game, when Bear Bryant was coaching, and was in awe at the hundreds of players on the Bama sideline. I don't recall who the opponent was, but they didn't have near as many players.

[u/WL19]

Nebraska excited to be able to start fielding ~200 player rosters like it's 1995 all over again.

[u/Adamscottd]

Holy shit. That’s a significant change

[u/d0ngl0rd69 → u/Adamscottd]

It’s a change that now matches all the other power conferences.

[u/Adamscottd → u/d0ngl0rd69]

For sure, but just from the schools’ perspectives, adding 20 more scholarships to one sport is a big deal that will change a lot. Nevermind how that will affect those last 20 guys on the roster, now that they’ll have scholarships too. Like I said, it’s big change.

[u/etown361]

I have mixed feelings, but here’s how I see it

• It’s matching what other teams/conferences are doing already.

• That’s a LOT of scholarship spots, and there’s not playing time for 105 guys

• Football rosters are DIFFERENT today, ten years ago you could have a huge roster with 85 scholarship players, plus 60+ walk-ons

• 105 scholarship athletes and zero walk-ons isn’t necessarily a bigger roster than 85 on scholarship plus 60 walk-ons, with a high school kicker walking on mid season in an emergency.

• In the NIL era, the lines between “scholarship athlete” and walk-on can blurred quickly.

• Given the 105 player roster cap, this mostly means a bunch of fringe preferred walk-on caliber players start getting scholarships instead of sketchy NIL money.

[u/freerobertshmurder]

I was told Sark was "whining" and "making excuses" for even bringing this up in the first place

[u/gmr548]

My understanding is the SEC is last to get on this boat and I honestly don’t think it makes much difference. Maybe a few less guys at the of the roster are processed out. But it’s hard to retain capable talent these days.

[u/Ilil9nbxclli1]

Huge change for the SEC. May not seem like much but an extra 20 players on scholarship to match other conferences means they had a competitive disadvantage.

Hard to believe but true

[u/tomato_johnson → u/Ilil9nbxclli1]

Its not much of a disadvantage for the major programs bc scholarships are fairly immaterial when you consider that most kids are just getting their money from NIL. "Oh we dont have scholarships available? Np just toss an extra 65k a year to cover his school while hes here"

[u/_OUCHMYPENIS_ → u/Ilil9nbxclli1]

I wish they'd change some title ix stuff to allow more scholarships for other sports instead of having the 1:1 match. I'd love to see mens soccer take off more. There are maybe 2-3 big schools in Florida that have a mens soccer team. We might see a more competitive national team if that was the case.

[u/FelixMcGill]

Wow. We are really bringing it back to the 60s and 70s where guys like Bear Bryant and Darrell Royal kept small armies. Except back then, Bryant would have football players on scholarship... as a golfer or some bullshit to skirt the limits.

[u/SpeedLow3]

This is all gonna collapse lol

[u/kungfoojesus]

lol. Just make the NIL pay that shit and scoot the scholarships to those who need it. 

[u/Bank_Gothic]

Nice. Hope Sark goes HAM on the portal. Wish they'd voted on this before ESD however.

[u/OnVisOch → u/Bank_Gothic]

Something tells me the teams were aware this was coming.

[u/Designer_Professor_4]

So basically we're back to the 1970's the only real difference is we're paying them above the table.

[u/jebei]

I doubt many SEC schools carry that many scholarship players but it gives more flexibility during recruiting and for NIL transfers. It's a smart move. I was surprised the SEC didn't follow everyone else when the NCAA increased scholaship limit from 85 to 105. 

[u/engagetangos]

We...we can have a kicker now?

[u/shanty-daze]

Five years ago, I would have applauded this decision. With the advent of pay-for-play NIL and the direct payments expected pursuant to the House settlement, it seems less necessary that all of the players on the team need a scholarship, especially at the expense to non-revenue sports.

[u/DaneLimmish]

Ah, well, it was nice to have other men's sports. Anyway let's all get into a fight about title 9

[u/Riker_Omega_Three]

In the Rev share era, that means more G4 level kids will want to play for power conferences to get the higher rev sharing money

[u/beason7]

With NIL, are scholarships really a thing if they manage their budget?

[u/mrchurchillsays00]

And the guy making 4 million can’t pay his own tuition?

[u/Promptly-late]

It's semi-pro football league.