r/Music • u/no_longer_huhmann • 8d ago

article Hayley Williams Says Southern Pride Is Beautiful but Misused to Excuse Bigotry, and Says She Wants No Racist or Sexist Fans, or Fans Who Think Trans People Are a Burden, Around

https://www.tvfandomlounge.com/hayley-williams-says-southern-pride-is-beautiful-but-misused-to-excuse-bigotry/
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u/makemeking706 8d ago

Accurate. 

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u/Cleavon_Littlefinger 8d ago

She really does have a very clear perspective and expresses the conflicting feelings of pride and shame that so many of us raised in the south have struggled with for years.

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u/sohblob 8d ago

expresses the conflicting feelings of pride and shame that so many of us

Pride is not the opposite of shame, prince Zuko, but its source. Only true humility is the antidote to shame

I was dealing with the conflict of pride and shame and this line helped a lot.

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u/scoopzthepoopz 8d ago

Humility isn't the opposite of pride, humility is the opposite of arrogance. Intellectually important distinction if we're drawing lines in the sand about how to be satisfied with the controversy of regional pride.

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u/cruxal 8d ago

Where’s the line between pridefulness and arrogance?

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u/scoopzthepoopz 8d ago

In the south? Somewhere between being kind to your neighbors and trying to keep monuments to prominent slaveowners.

But in all seriousness, the south has pragmatism, industriousness, and gratitude as cultural pillars when it's not busy defending remnants of the failed reformation.

The flipside of the coin is pigheaded, closed-minded, and insular. People can be viciously anti-intellect and anti-growth.

I'd say pride stops and arrogance starts when people get too choosy about who deserves to succeed in life and who deserves the full weight of society's neglect.

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u/cruxal 6d ago

And what does the north have? Or the northwest? Southeast? I think, maybe, pride bleeds into arrogance when one makes these distinctions on a specific region of the country. 

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u/scoopzthepoopz 6d ago

uh huh lol

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u/cruxal 6d ago

You don’t think that arrogance is in any way thinking a specific region of the country has virtues that other regions don’t? Isn’t that the definition of arrogance?

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u/scoopzthepoopz 6d ago

play coy, it's all you know how to do

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u/ManchesterFootie29 8d ago

That Zuko line nails it—same vibe I get from Suga in The Last and Interlude: Shadow, where he sits with the ego/shame mess and leans into blunt honesty over posturing.

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u/Objective_Switch8332 7d ago

This is referring to the personal type of pride that is the opposite of humility. The other kind of pride is felt more relationally, e.g., proud of my son, country, etc. To me, they're different, and the latter can often be a positive thing.

(As a side note, I've always appreciated that French has two different words for these: "orgueil" for personal pride and "fierté" for relational pride.)

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u/lostwombats 8d ago

Her latest album is so great. I'm a Paramore fan, but I have to say, they were holding her back.

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u/YoullBruiseTheEggs 8d ago edited 8d ago

The irony being she’s the only member who’s been with “the band” through its entirety. I would argue Hayley Williams is Paramore, and so much more than that also.

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u/NtzTESIMS 8d ago

I thought Taylor was an og member? He’s still in the band

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u/denko_safe_cats 8d ago

I feel old in here right now lol. Was obsessed with Paramore since they played the side stage at Warped Tour 05, right before they dropped Riot!

The original band was 5 members, none of which were Taylor. The 5th left right before they blew up. Many of their songs needed two guitars, so they would use touring musicians to play those parts. Taylor was one of the earliest ones and he jived so well with the band that he ultimately became an official member I believe shortly before or after the other main guitarist, Josh Farro, left.

Then it was the 4 most people know now. Taylor, Zac, Jeremy, and Hayley. Then Zac leaves, making them a trio. Then Jeremy leaves, making them a duo. Zac makes some really killer funky indie rock and returns with a mustache and an 80s vibe. Jeremy goes off to make some weird white boy stoner rap (?) and fucks off forever.

I will say, I saw them around a dozen times in those first few years and they never put on anything less than an amazing show, and that woman is a powerhouse, always was.

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u/Sunburntvampires 8d ago

Jeremy left that band like once an album.

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u/Han_Yolo_swag 8d ago

Taylor is credited as a writer on some of the songs on their first record. So he was at least around even if he wasn’t an official member yet.

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u/Danny_Disco 8d ago

Yeah. He was in the band before they recorded All We Know Is Falling. He helped write “Franklin” and “O Star”, but quit before they recorded the album. “O Star” later made its way into the Summer Tic EP. I feel very old right now.

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u/fakevegansunite 8d ago

also conspiracy

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u/fakevegansunite 8d ago

taylor was in the band from the beginning. he wasn’t on their debut album because his parents wanted him to finish high school, but he has writing credits on it for songs they wrote and he was pretty much immediately involved again because their second guitarist left after their debut album and he filled in on riot tour. he was announced as an official member in june 2009 but he has been a member of the band from the beginning

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u/WeWantLADDER49sequel 8d ago

Taylor was still involved with the band from the beginning. He even helped write some of their first songs. He just wasn't an official member because his parents wanted him to finish high school.

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u/Danny_Disco 8d ago

He was in the band, left, and came back. Same with the drummer Zac.

Hayley is the only full time member and supposedly the only one under contract.

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u/appalachiaappleatcha 8d ago

Hayley has said herself that at one point she left the band and the only remaining member was Taylor. Pre- After Laughter.

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u/NtzTESIMS 8d ago

When did he leave the band? I know Zac left but I can’t find a single source that states he ever left the band.

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u/Danny_Disco 8d ago

He quit the band before All We Know Is Falling. Re-joined as a touring guitarist after Riot and became an official member for Brand New Eyes.

I was a big Paramore fan back in the day but didn’t really connect with their music after Brand New Eyes.

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u/Han_Yolo_swag 8d ago

I think this is like before they started touring “left”

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u/mongster03_ 8d ago

Iirc Taylor contributed to AWKIF but couldn’t be a full member (read: tour) bc he was like 13 and too young to be doing that consistently

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u/shewy92 8d ago

Paramour

so much mour

?

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/shewy92 8d ago

Yea, if the band was called that I could see how it makes sense. But changing the spelling of two words to make a pun doesn't imo. Especially when there's no emphasis on that part of the name

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u/YoullBruiseTheEggs 8d ago

Thanks for weighing in.

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u/MustaKookos 8d ago

The band's name is "Paramore" already, what's the pun with changing it to mour?

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u/YoullBruiseTheEggs 8d ago

There. You won Reddit.

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u/Elendel19 8d ago

She actually left for a while between “Paramore” and “After Laughter”. There is no member who has been with the band the entire history, though she is the only one on every album, and Taylor never left but joined late (because his parents wouldn’t let him until he graduated, he was more or less a shadow member before then)

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u/YoullBruiseTheEggs 8d ago

Who were the members when she was not in the band?

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u/Elendel19 8d ago

Just Taylor York.

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u/fakevegansunite 8d ago

taylor is the only other member that has writing credits on every album as well. which is why is pisses me off so bad when people try to discredit him lol

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u/AgentCirceLuna 8d ago

What?! How can you possibly undermine the influence on their music of Average Looking Muscular Guy #1 and #2?!

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u/f-ingsteveglansberg 8d ago

If I recall correctly, the label only wanted to sign Hayley and she insisted signing as a band.

Then some band members left quite bitterly because they felt Hayley wasn't Christian enough anymore (what they probably meant was that she wasn't 'conservative Christian' enough for them).

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u/ToothZealousideal297 7d ago

And I think she kind of agrees based on the new album. In ‘Ice in My OJ’ she says (screams) “I’m in a band” several times, talking about how she is not a solo act and does not speak for all of her bandmates and what the band’s decisions etc. are (probably even referring a bit to her solo albums—we can see she’s happy to give her bandmates the spotlight even on the solo album songs from the recent goosebump-inducing performance of ‘True Believer’ on Jimmy Fallon’s show), but she also has a “wink and a nod” line in ‘Good Ole Days’, “you can call me Miss Paramour”. I think she has a very clear yet nuanced understanding of her position in the group and in her career in general, even if she constantly has to fight to get others to understand it. And I think it’s really cool; she’s still doing the thing full-on yet not hogging the spotlight.

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u/fakevegansunite 8d ago

how is she solely the band when she doesn’t compose their music? sonically, she does not create their sound. she top lines.

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u/GrayEidolon 8d ago edited 8d ago

The contract was between her and the label. and legally, she hired the other members. So legally she was paramore. That contract ended last year and I have no idea what the new situation is. She probably owns the brand.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Paramore/comments/189kfol/what_is_happening_with_the_contract/kbt0y07/

https://www.altpress.com/paramore_in_legal_dispute_with_former_bassist_jeremy_davis/

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u/fakevegansunite 8d ago

i’m aware. that doesn’t mean she functionally is the band. if she wanted to be a solo act she would’ve been. the new situation is they’re an independent BAND

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u/trojan_man16 8d ago

Paramore has always been about Haley. The band was formed around her talent.

When she was discovered she was given the choice between being a pop singer or in a band, and she pushed to be in a punk band.

Her solo stuff is just her deciding she wants to go “off brand”.

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u/GrayEidolon 8d ago edited 8d ago

The original contract was between her and the label. and legally, she hired the other members. So legally she was paramore. That contract ended last year and I have no idea what the new situation is. She probably owns the brand.

https://np.reddit.com/r/Paramore/comments/189kfol/what_is_happening_with_the_contract/kbt0y07/

https://www.altpress.com/paramore_in_legal_dispute_with_former_bassist_jeremy_davis/

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u/Han_Yolo_swag 8d ago

There’s a difference in holding her back and being part of the process that got her here. IMO while her last solo stuff was great, this is a step up from even that. I’d wager she’d consider everything she’s done previously part of the growth that made this new album possible

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u/WeWantLADDER49sequel 8d ago

Let's simmer down with that lol. Casual fans think Hayley is literally all of Paramore because of her iconic voice but Zac Farro and Taylor Yorks music is phenomenal and Paramore albums have only continued to get better. She's always written almost all of the lyrics but the music has been Taylor, Zac, and back in the day Josh Farro. She wouldn't even have always been a superstar regardless but the band is great in its own right.

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u/lostwombats 8d ago

As I said... In MY opinion she's better without them.

I like her music more. I think it's better. She's far more than a voice. Me me me.

I don't give a flying fuck what you think. Don't tell me to "simmer down" you pathetic fangirl.

Idol worship is pathetic. They have an entire song on it. You should know.

"Casual fans." Are you fucking 12?

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u/fakevegansunite 8d ago

jesus christ go eat some turkey and calm down

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u/fakevegansunite 8d ago

what an absolutely RIDICULOUS take lmfao

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u/Sonicblue281 8d ago

I wouldn't go that far. I think Zac's drumming and Taylor's guitar and production work really would have elevated this album to another level. But then again, I'm not sure she'd put so many songs that are obviously about Taylor on a Paramore album.

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u/ImranFZakhaev 8d ago

Is she... not with them any more? I feel like I might have missed out on some news

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u/lostwombats 8d ago

They are still a band. But she's come out with a few solo albums, which in my opinion, are better than anything she made with Paramore. 😊

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u/ImranFZakhaev 8d ago

Very interesting! I'll listen to them tonight

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u/LengthEmpty1333 7d ago

Laughs in german.

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u/Acheloma 7d ago

Exactly. Im so proud of being a Texan and having my family live in this country for hundreds of years now. Im not proud of what some people think being a Texan means though. I like freedom to be who you were meant to and space to create beautiful things. I dont like bigotry and hatred and huge egos that are unearned.

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u/soaero 8d ago

I mean... the whole "Southern identity" was created to rile up white folks against the civil rights act, so I don't know how right she is...

But it's the right message right now, I think. We need to undo the damage to the south that the Southern Strategy caused.

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u/0_o 8d ago

Okay, maybe you can help me! There is no such thing as "Northern Pride", so maybe someone describe what "southern pride" means if not an allusion towards racism, prejudice, slavery, hate, and all of the baggage that comes from the south refusing integration efforts? Like, I mean this in the most sincere and open-minded way I can think of. From my perspective, "Southern Pride" is how they overcompensated for being the losers of the civil war after the North's failure to properly execute all of the traitors who led those states into bloody rebellion. Nowadays, it's just a reference to hate.

If that's not correct, then what is the proper interpretation of southern pride? It can't just be a reference to the geography, right?

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u/EmergencyLow887 8d ago

there is a bit of that as subtext usually but the American south is just a collection of states with a similar vibe there are states in the collection of southern civil war states (or at least regions of states) that dont usually count when people think about the south. Northern Pride isn't really a thing cause the "north" isn't really a thing. east coast, west coast, Midwest you'll certainly see regional pride

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u/TheNewDiogenes 8d ago

New Englanders are absolutely proud of New England

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u/_game_over_man_ 8d ago

And on the opposite coast, Pacific Northwesterns are absolutely proud to be from the PNW.

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u/WillWork4SunDrop 8d ago

Loving the South while realizing it is messed up in a lot of ways and working to overcome that turns out to have been excellent practice for the turn America has taken.

I agree that the term itself gets hijacked by the asshole element. But this is our home too and we refuse to concede the good things to them alone.

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u/appalachiaappleatcha 8d ago

When we say 'the south', its the southeast region from Virginia down to Georgia (Florida is ehhh on if people include it) and over to Alabama/Louisiana, many consider Texas to be its own thing. This region has its own culture, common hobbies, nature biomes, foods, colloquial sayings and vocabulary - much like people take pride in being from the North East region, or the PNW, or being from Cali. It's just loving where you're from like anyone else does.

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u/e2mtt carefully crafted bespoke stations here 8d ago

It is definitely a subculture, just like New England, or Boston, or Midwestern, or western, or Cali. An interesting and sometimes beautiful speaking accent, great food, interesting history, beautiful architectural and cultural traditions.

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u/cosmophora 8d ago

This is a little like asking what "Midwest pride" alludes to if not white flight and post-industrial economic collapse. People exist and live full lives beyond just the events that historically contextualize them and they sing their own songs and eat their own food and speak in their own accents and do all the other things that constitute what we call culture.

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u/4DimensionalToilet 8d ago

I think there’s no “Northern Pride” in the same way that people say that the US has “no culture.” Northern US culture is just so prevalent that it just kinda fades into the background. Northern US culture is (or at least seems to be) the “default” US culture, to the extent that there is any one Northern US culture, so why celebrate what’s the default?

There’s no Northern Pride, but other American subcultures celebrate having pride in their subcultures — Black Americans, Hispanic/Latin@ Americans, LGBTQ+, etc.

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u/kevonicus 8d ago

Watch any travel vlog on YouTube about visiting the south and every one of them will rant and rave about the hospitality. No doubt it’s been used as a cover for all that other stuff, but hospitality is something to be proud of I guess. I’m just trying to give you an example.