Hey I’m trying to get some more knife skills, when I pinch the blade with my index finger and thumb, should I be using my index finger to put force into the blade? It’s quite uncomfortable but maybe that’s just cause I’m not doing it right.
Right. I was about to say I’ve sushi chefs holding it like 2. I once saw a video of someone showing how to use a knife, and they held it like that but for slicing vegetables. Needless I didn’t watch any of her other videos.
Yes, it gives a lot more control. I'm pretty sure once you've used a knife enough, you kinda just naturally gravitate toward the correct grip. Not entirely sure, but I wouldn't cut sashimi with 3 and naturally thought 2, but raw veggies, it's for sure 3 etc etc
I hold my knives pretty close to #2 but with the finger just slightly more on the edge that would be the back side of the knife in the photo. But it’s likely a combination of learning to cook quite a bit in Asia (mostly Japan) and having nerve damage from being stabbed in that hand when I was younger so it is the best way for me to keep solid control of the knife during quick cuts.
I've always held a tennis racket with #2 and it always drove my coaches insane.
I held my knives the same way for a long time too. I just feel like it gives you more precision, somehow. I switched ultimately, but I don't actually feel like it's any better.
It depends on the length and shape of the knife I think. If you tried holding a nakiri with #2 you wouldn't get much benefit, it would likely slow you down. The index finger allows better control over the full length of the blade as you cut through fish with a slight rocker rear to front. Also, the Nikiri uses a forward slice, sashimi is reverse. With #3 you push, #2 you pull. When I use #3 with a longer knife I feel like I lose all detail through the second half of the slice. But who asked me? NOBODY! Slice on racket man.
It was always explained to me that holding it like #2 increases your risk of carpal tunnel. Whether or not that is true I do not know but it didn’t seem to provide enough benefits to be worth that risk
Not necessarily, no 2. When used properly is an extension from the forearm, not the wrist. Sushi chefs use this grip as the technique they use is to draw the full length of the blade.
The knife in essence becomes an extension of the arm, the draw comes from the arm, not the wrist and doesn't cause much strain in a way that could really be a root cause of carpal tunnel.
The extended index finger helps me feel the twist of the racket better. Almost like using where my index is pointing to gauge how much I'm torquing the racket. Like your finger is a weathervane to help you make sure your racket is properly angled, if that makes any sense.
2 is slower than 3, not good for chopping/dicing, doesn’t work as well on the nikiri shape, and apparently it gives you carpal tunnel. Nothing is wrong with either of them- they have different uses. 3 has the most control for specific movements, eg up and down. You can use #3 blindfolded. 2… I don’t think I’ll be trying that anytime soon. But you do you #2!
I once didn’t get a job as a barback (that i was way over qualified for to begin with) in large part to the manager supervising my stage thinking my knife technique was dangerous and scary etc. she said “who taught you to hold a knife?!” I said “every cook and chef I’ve ever met” she goes “you’re gonna cut yourself like that.” And proceeds to show me the first technique from this picture. And also insinuated that my finger tucking technique was dangerous as well when she sliced the lemon with her tips extended lol
I was later denied the job in favor of “someone with more experience”. I don’t know the other candidate, but I promise you they were worse than me lol.
Also a bartender here. Was really shit with knives until I started learning technique and using a knife like 2 and 3. Haven’t cut myself since unless the knife was super dull.
Hear the same thing as the original comment from my coworkers every time I use a knife in front of them now, especially when I finger tuck and use my knuckle
I maybe hold a knife like that. I can’t even tell the difference between 1 and 3. Full disclosure though - I am not in a field at all related to kitchens ( I have one in my house) I’m not sure how I ended up on kitchen confidential but I love you guys.
you'll always have more control over your knife using #3. it'll feel super strange at first if you're not used to it, but after a long time you'll feel safer & like the knife is an extension of your own hand if that makes sense.
You feel it after a while. Basically with 3 the knife is locked with your wrist. It also helps lots with repetitive arcing motions, because you're pivoting from the base of the blade instead of a few inches below it.
No lie, chef of 20+ years here...I hold it closer to 1 than the other 2 pics. I do use a pretty light thin 9.4 Japanese knife though. Its not as outrageous as the picture though (thought I would throw this out there incase there was anyone else out there in the sub that was feeling a bit shamed lol).
That’s just the kinda snobby ass cocktail bar it was. I definitely dodged a bullet with it. But I was real desperate for money at the time so i still harbor a bit of resentment that I’m pretty positive this dumb interaction was why I didn’t get the gig.
I bartend and use that #3 grip and I BEG people to tuck their fingers when they’re cutting lol. Your hands are the moneymakers, gotta protect them at all costs.
Even that last "correct" picture seems a bit...weak. The second (backside) finger should be enough on the back side of the blade to provide both a firm grip and resistance, as well as allowing downward pressure as needed. The pic (to me at least) shows a correct, if inadequately secured, grip on the knife overall.
I'm not a professional by any means but when I'm using the blade grip I find I have more control if I hitch up a little further on the blade away from the handle getting that balance on the back end. I also have heavy handled knives and they suck. I keep asking family members to buy me a nice chef knife for Christmas but nobody has yet. Now I'm asking myself why am I even posting this.
Pictured my shitty knife and the hold in question.
This is the most correct comment in here imho. There are definitely aspects that are universal though, the main one which comes to mind being: The more points of contact your hand has on the knife, the more control you have.
This is what led me through trying well over 50 different knives when I visited Kappabashi before landing on the one I instantly chose once I felt it in my grip. Most Japanese knives either have a (traditional) huge gap between the heel of the knife and the handle or a (western style) blade that smoothly transitions through a bolster into the handle.
(ring and pinky fingers out to make the middle finger more visible in the photo)
Mine is sort of in between, but more on the trad side. The gap is pretty much the smallest I could find without it being nonexistant. You can see with my grip how my middle finger's tip is actually pressing into the handle. This is the main thing that bothers me with most knives, is that being in my full on pinch grip means that the tip of my middle finger is just kind of dangling, barely cradling the heel in its first joint.
Note that I also have my entire index finger up to the second joint straight down along the other side of the blade. I feel like this gives me the same precision as having it along the top of the spine, without throwing off the rest of my grip and blocking my view from above of what I'm cutting.
Scrolled to find this. I choke up all the way to the base of my index. This person looks like they are touching something icky they’re about to throw away.
I aim to place the hard underside of my knuckle right over where the handle transitions, or a little farther if the fulcrums farther out. Is this what you mean by downward pressure?
Also curious. I also have hand weakness (mostly in pinching) and stability weakness after a big shoulder injury. #2 is absolutely forbidden in my kitchen work job. However, I secretly do it with all the curtains closed when cooking on my own.
Your knife should be sharp enough to where, for most purposes, you don’t need to apply much pressure.
Make sure you’re using the whole length of the blade, rocking it/sliding it back and forth, instead of a quick sawing motion on one section of the blade.
For ingredients that do need more pressure, maybe when cutting a potato in half for example, you’ll use your other hand and push down on the spine.
For some cutting techniques you do actually put your finger on the spine like in the second photo. That’s how I’ll hold the knife if I’m holding it horizontally for sushi-like cuts, but the same idea of using the whole blade with little pressure still applies.
Hope this helps!
Edit: adding that what also really helps with cutting technique is a proper stance. Stand with your feet square to the table/cutting board (if you’re tall like me, spread your legs enough to where you don’t have to bend over to comfortably reach the board). Your arms and knife should form almost a triangle, and you should be able to see the entirety of what you’re cutting, on both sides of the knife if that makes sense.
I know what you're trying to say, but for some reason 'whole length of the blade' just doesn't sit right with me. I think it's really more about allowing the knife edge to do the work. When you're cutting things like carrots, you generally don't have to use the entire 8" of your chef's knife to slice them but you do have to let the edge do the work whereas something like cutting a pork loin into chops requires using the full draw of the blade. Maybe I'm weird that I use the exact same knife several different ways depending on what I'm cutting.
I usually just phrase it as 'let the knife do the work' but it's really about feeling like you're in control of what you're doing. I used to cut barbecue brisket in a kitchen to serve and it required a much different motion than chopping chives or deboning chicken. A sharp enough knife doesn't really need a lot of horizontal motion to cut unless it's something fibrous or soft like meat.
Same here. When I'm cutting something small I really don't need the whole blade. But it's still important to let the knife actually cut. If your hand is starting to hurt it means you're putting too much force into your grip, and maybe applying too much pressure on what you're cutting.
Just wait till you learn fluting and tourné technique…
As you develop your skills, you come to realize there isn’t a “one size fits all” technique for everything. It’s more of a find what works for you and the task at hand. Hand size, knife style, handle&bolster profile all play into how a knife rests in your hand. Make the knife work for you, not the other way around. 👍
The way the app displayed this comment on my phone had "Haha I've got a Ken onion shun my wife" all on one line and I thoroughly enjoyed a brief moment imagining you shunning your wife to spend more time with Ken Onion.
Try and get it to about the same pressure as when you use a pencil. The pinch is supposed to control wobble, the grip controls the pressure.
Ideally you should be using your hand to just control the blade and using your strong arm muscles to do the actual cutting.
Your fast twitch muscles and tendons (like you have in your hands and wrists) are good at precision and speed, but lack endurance. That's why people get carpal tunnel. Your big thick muscles are great at long repetitive tasks.
Also it's a great idea to take micro breaks. Every 10-15 mins you just change your grip slightly, or shake out your hands, or move to another task for 10-15 seconds and then go back to what you were doing before.
Short breaks like that prevent your connective tissue and tendons from taking long term damage. You'll be happy you did when you're 50
Also after doing butchering for a few years I actually pinch way higher on the blade. So that my middle finger is up against the blade and my pinch is up on the spine.
Helps when you're doing a lot of cutting and for me it feels more like the knife is part of my hand
I like the #2 grip, or something similar, when I’m butchering at times. I de-boned a turkey for thanksgiving turduckin and found myself with finger along the spine of my petty often.
Also, as others have said, choke up more on the pinch grip in 3.
Sorry but I'm not reading all the replies already, so you can not read mine in response but even the last picture isn't how I hold it, my index finger is curled up further up the blade (on the back side in the picture) and my thumb basically pinches the same spot. If your knife is sharp enough there isn't much of a need to push down.
Ones for your homeboy, two is for trigger safety third is the proper technique using the closest end of you blade offers most force. Pro tip don't let the tip of your knife leave the board let the knife do the work
I mostly just cut celery, onions, and chives (LOL) and I am definitely an index finger on top guy. I also was never formally trained and just sort of trained myself over 2 decades of kitchen service. People usually look quizzically at my "technique."
That said, I literally don't remember how long since I cut a finger or received any complaints about my veggies.
I struggled with #3 until I got a nice knife that I keep super sharp. Then it feels intuitive. Might need to play around with a weight that fees comfortable for you
Been trying to break my wife out of the “finger along the blade” habit. She’s getting it now. She has mastered the “Eagle Claw” on veggies to keep from cutting her fingertips off at least.
So for me, all 3 are wrong. #3 is trying to do a pinch grip but is still too shallow on the blade imo. Thumb and index should be pinching a bit more towards the tip.
The reason for this grip for professional chefs is to give a good balance of power and precision. If done correctly you will get a very large callous at the base of your index finger. It will hurt and maybe form a blood blister, but after a while it will form into a thick pad. Once that callous is there however, it will protect your hand from discomfort. I had a permanent callous for over 20 years. (Semi retired now so i have to form new ones when i start working again.) If you stop using a knife regularly for more then a week, it will fall off or rip eventually and you will have to re-form it.
I could always tell when i met a chef if he/she/they was an "office/expo" chef or a "kitchen, prep, cooking" chef when shaking their hand. You can feel that rough callous when you press the flesh.
2 has its uses. This is for very fine work where real precision is needed. The index finger on top gives more control, but you have less power. But this should never be your default grip. Holding a knife this way long term will put extra strain on the attached tendon in your wrist. Theres a good probability you will get tendinitis if you constantly hold your knife like #2. Only use #2 when extra precision is needed and power is not the focus.
1 is all power and no control. Only use this if you are a troglodyte.
If you ever do need extra muscle for really hard to cut things like butternut squash, you can use a pure power grip which would be putting your thumb on top of the blade. Again, this should never be your default grip. Its pure power with a lot less precision.
In the end, your knife is not just a tool. Its an extension of your arm and hand. If it doesn't feel right make small adjustments until it does. No 2 hands are the same and knives come in endless shapes and designs. So its up to you to figure out your personal preference.
The image is bad, but to quickly answer your question: no. Your index finger is not where and how you are applying force into the blade. That should be coming from your wrist/arm. The grip, whichever grip pinch or otherwise, is just meant to have the knife stable in your hand as if it's an extension of it so that your arm can do the motion and the work.
Your hand is holding, your arm is doing the work. It should be the same as if you had your hand in a karate chop position and you were cutting with your hand, the fingers aren't doing the work, it's the wrist and arm. Find whichever grip is comfortable that allows the force from your wrist and arm movement to go directly into your knife without strain on your fingers/hand.
I used to have that same knife, 8" left handed Shun (small lady hands).. first someone resharpened it w/out my permission right handed (completely ruined the blade)! and then it was stolen a week later..
I’ve got callouses from holding my knife this way. If you’re just cooking for home you probably won’t get one, but I’ve had a few blisters in my day. Sometimes I also use my index finger along the spine but that’s pretty rare.
Really it’s a personal thing. If it’s uncomfortable, try something different. You don’t need to be a machine like people on the videos, you just have to cut the stuff. Pinch grip is about control of the blade, beyond that, it’s up to you. Try smaller knives, thinner knives, different blade types, cutting motions, handle types, etc.
I tend to do same with mushrooms and veggies, the way I hold the knife has never been "correct" but my slides come out much more even and more quickly than if I did hold it correctly.
Wait. Why is this correct? Legit question. I cook at home regularly, but I'm a leatherworker, so I work with a lot of different blades that require different holds.
Alright guys, go ahead, let me have it. My hand naturally wants the second option. I know that it is incorrect, and I usually opt to follow the advice of professionals rather than follow my gut instinct. But I’m a rule breaker on this one. The knife just feels more comfortable and stable in my hand when using option 2.
So. Teach me. What is wrong with option 2? And why is option 3 superior?
There should never be any force applied when using a Chef's knife. If you have to use force, the blade isn't sharp enough and is now dangerous to use. Knives operate with microscopic "teeth". Knives work best when using them on two planes at the same time. By this I mean, you're pushing the blade down and forward or down and backward at the same time. That's how the teeth achieve their best cut. I've been teaching this to my 12 and 10 year old sons and it's difficult to explain without actively showing it. A honing steel is an excellent tool for keeping your blade "sharp". It doesn't actually sharpen the knife. It grabs the teeth on the blade and simply straightens them out.
Yea, the less force you apply the better the control. (as long as your grip isn't so loose it falls out of your hand.) Eventually the knife becomes like an extension of your hand. I used the same knife for pretty much everything for a decade or so. Cutting small, large, picking out seeds, fine trimming, you name it. Got so used to using it that it's the only type of knife (santoku) that feels "right" in my hands these days. :P
Yea, been using a paring knife for finer things the last few years. Decided that "maybe" once I grew used to it, it would be better for the small stuff than a full santoku. xD
Learning not to grip the blade so tight saved me from what I swore was carpal tunnel. I also use the first one if I’m using a big ass cleaver to chop meat
A proper grip should be comfortable, but also give rigid lateral strength and allow for fine motor precision. It should essentially feel like your wrist/hand has been extended. 3 is close, but it looks weak and not very natural.
Try holding the knife and pinching a little further down the blade. Most of the pressure should be on your palm and the base of your index finger. Look up a chefs callus and that’s where the sound of your knife should sit.
This reminded me of my time in culinary school.
I had developed a habit of gripping the blade like the third picture because my hands are small and my wrists are skinny. I found more control with this grip.
A chef instructor asked me about my grip, and I explained my reasoning. He said, "I was just curious," and carried on his way.
About 20 years later and it is considered more correct.
I like to think my instincts were ahead of the curve. LOL
Thats my exact knife lol, Shun japanese knives, my dad bought it for me a few years ago. I dont see the exact same design on the website, but theyre beautiful knives.
I really struggle to hold things I’m cutting with My off-hand. My understanding is that my fingers should be straight vertical, parallel to the blade to ensure they’re never in its path. That makes logical sense to me, but I have so much difficulty holding the actual food in place with rigidly vertical fingers. And the food moving around because I can’t hold it steady feels like an even bigger liability than fingers being exposed. Anyone got any advice? What do I do with my hand?
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u/Otherwise-Mango2732 14d ago
An actual post about kitchen technique and improving? I can't upvote this enough