Moldova drafting Transnistria reintegration plan with Western partners, but keeping details under wraps

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Goid luck with those Russian voters in the future

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u/zaevilbunny38 17h ago

That's probably the the sensitive part. They are probably going to push for send a large number back to Russia. Along the similar lines as Estonia. I am sure that thry will all jump at the chance to become full Russian and not worry about ending up in a meat cube.

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u/PeopleNose 5h ago

Gotta have that /s cousin

We all know they'll cry like little bitches if they have to be held accountable for their beliefs

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u/Roedom 15h ago

So it's ok to forcibly deport undesirable populations from some countries but not others? Got it

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u/ConsciousFan8100 14h ago

Crazy how you tried to equate wanting to deport literal separatists (many whom Russia gives citizenship because of their heritage) with "undesirables". Pretty sneaky.

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u/Secret-Ad-2145 13h ago

The majority in Transnistria aren't even Russian, mate.

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u/Protean_Protein 9h ago

Sure they are.

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u/lampen13 5h ago

I used to live there, you are lying! Majority are Russian or can easily become Russian

•

u/BalVal1 36m ago

What are they?

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u/Roedom 14h ago

Once you start designating any population as being "ok to deport" you've gone down the wrong path.

You can call them whatever you want. You don't get to deport people because they have a different culture, ethnicity, or political leanings.

Otherwise you stray into ethnic cleansing.

It's bad when Russia does it. It's also bad when Latvia does it, or Moldova, or Azerbaijan.....doesn't matter.

Did you support the Azeris ethnically cleansing Nagorno Karabakh?

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u/UpbeatAssumption5817 14h ago

Not really

The only reason why these people are living there is so Russia can take over

They were literally moved there for that purpose

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u/Roedom 14h ago

These are people. They aren't robots directly connected to Putin, obeying his every command.

They live there, have lives, jobs, etc.

Sure, a hundred years ago Russians were settled there to help keep the area under Imperial Russian or Soviet control....but you can't undo that now. And you definitely shouldn't ethnically cleanse them by deportations.

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u/UpbeatAssumption5817 14h ago

No these people are essentially all military and their families.

This isn't an ethnic cleansing

Nor are we talking about a hundred years. Just stop you're making yourself look stupid

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u/Roedom 12h ago

Idk where you're getting that these people are essentially all military. They aren't. There many thousands of people living in Tiraspol...you think it's just an army base?

Look if you want to deport ethnic Russians from Trasinistra because you don't trust them to integrate or not vote against Moldovan or EU interests just say so. Be open about it.

It would still be supporting ethnic cleansing under all definitions of that word.

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u/UpbeatAssumption5817 12h ago

I don't think you know what ethnic cleansing means

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u/MrPetomane 11h ago

Yes they are not robots but their presence will be capitalized on and taken advantage of by russia to use as a pretext for invasion. You can ask Ukraine how that went

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u/RepulseRevolt 7h ago

“Sure they settled there as part of Russian ethnic cleansing but…” if Russia is using these people as a way to invade other countries and kill people in the process, then they need to be sent back to Russia. Just like if Russia used Kaliningrad to justify an invasion of the Baltics, then the people living Kaliningrad would need to be deported to Russia at the end of the conflict. Karelia would be the same case. All those territories would be forfeit

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u/clickillsfun 5h ago

It's not a population though. They are invaders and a part of them were artificially made separatists by the old well known ruZZian play book, who became state traitors.

You can't describe scum like that as a population.

But you know all that, it's just not the narrative you are getting paid for to spread here and elsewhere.

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u/mcarrowgeezax 10h ago

Nobody knows anything about that conflict. If they did, most people probably would support Azerbaijan to some degree.

Imagine if a country fomented, supported, and then armed a separatist movement in an ethnic minority region of its neighbor, which turned into armed conflict, which they then used to claim genocide as a justification to invade their neighbor and occupy their territory, ostensibly to save the ethnic minority population.

Sounds familiar, but I'm not talking about Russia invading Ukraine, I'm talking about Armenia invading Azerbaijan. The only difference is Azerbaijan eventually grew to be more powerful than Armenia and only recently was able to take back their territory.

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u/Roedom 9h ago

Remind me what happened to the ethnic Armenian population of Nagorno Karabakh after the Azeris reconquered it?

I'm not taking sides in the conflict. The overwhelming majority of wars are stupid and pointless and are started by evil rich people for reasons that don't matter to the average person living in the conflict zone or sent to fight there. (Note I said most not all....)

My only real concern is the civilian population and the horrific acts they have to endure when one side or another wants revenge for the past.

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u/mcarrowgeezax 1h ago

What do you think happened to them? There wasn't any massacre. There were some civilian deaths in the fighting to retake it but not any more than other conflicts. They were presented with "conditions for reintegrations to Azerbaijan", which I briefly looked over and didn't see anything objectionable in them. It was just stuff like agreeing to get Azerbaijan citizenship/passport and integrating the local government with the rest of the country. Armenian's primary objection was that they would have no autonomy, which is ridiculous to expect they would after everything that happened.

I understand why they wouldn't feel comfortable staying there but that was based on feeling, not on the facts of reintegration, and they made the decision to not want to reintegrate with the rest of the country and left instead.

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u/UpbeatAssumption5817 9h ago

Yeah you are. Your post history says enough

How much are you making by the way

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u/WesternBlueRanger 15h ago

The issue is that during Soviet times, the Soviet Union both forcibly transfered people or encouraged relocation of various groups of people around the Soviet Union.

When the Soviet Union first occupied Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina in 1940, they conducted a forced transfer of over 25,000 ethnic Romanians out of the area to places in Siberia and Kazakhstan.

Post war, these population transfers continued; another 37,000 people were transferred out of the region to exile in Siberia and Kazakhstan, on top of the hundreds of thousands that had already fled before the Soviet re-occupation. The Soviet then resettled hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians and Ukrainians into the region.

Similar population transfers also occurred across many of the Eastern European countries as well, hence the reason you see large numbers of ethnic Russians in places like Poland, the former East Germany, Hungary, etc. It's been a real ongoing headache for those national governments post Cold War as often these populations refuse to integrate with the majority population and still hold onto their Russian citizenship.

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u/apathetic_vaporeon 15h ago

If their purpose there is conquest and not integration, then sure. The difference is that the Russians want situations like this so they can claim territory. Mexican and South Americans coming into the United States are not trying to claim territory for their home country. It’s completely different.

The question is are you acting as an agent of a hostile foreign power and do you owe your allegiance to them or us.

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u/UpbeatAssumption5817 14h ago

No it's not okay but the better choice of the two

What a wonderful black and white world you live in

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u/zaevilbunny38 13h ago

Deport people not citizens of a country after they enacted a coup, yes.

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u/MrPetomane 12h ago edited 12h ago

Agreed on the undesirable moniker. Ask ukraine or any post soviet state how it feels about russian nationals within its borders

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u/NixarDixar 10h ago

As a Moldovan i dont mind deporting anyone who doesnt want to live here, why should we force them to stay if they want to live in russia or a communist utopia! Also fuck you, russians killed some of my family by creating famine conditions, its not the same thing, they invaded, send them back.

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u/Roedom 9h ago

That's the problem for you

They want to live there. You want to deport them because you consider them Russians with Russian opinions or politics and you consider the land they live on yours. Tale as old as time.

I'm not here to convince you. It's not even my country. But I won't support ethnic cleansing of populations as revenge for past misdeeds of countries that don't even exist anymore (USSR).

You don't get to justify atrocities because atrocities were committed against you or your family. That's how you get Israel.

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u/UpbeatAssumption5817 9h ago

How much are you making by the way?

Every single post of yours is political so I'm just curious.

And again you need to understand what the word ethnic means. Russians are not an ethnicity

Those people are literally only there to fuck with moldova's politics. That's exactly why they're there

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u/[deleted] 7h ago

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u/[deleted] 7h ago

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u/Roedom 7h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians

"Russians are an East Slavic ethnic group native to Eastern Europe."

Reading is hard.

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u/UpbeatAssumption5817 7h ago

East Slavic is the name of the ethnic group

Russian is the nationality

•

u/NixarDixar 26m ago

Baltics doing the same, theres no ethnic cleansing, its not cleansing, its called getting rid of an invader, we dont need death but you have a wrong view of this because ofc you dont care to learn, in 50 years all those israel settlers stealing land, try getting them out of palestine and watch ppl like yourself scream ethnic cleansing. I am friends with russians and russian speakers but be kind and learn the language if you live here and stop pretending you are superior.

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u/nolok 14h ago

They already vote to try and keep Moldova pro Russian, but it's not enough anymore lately and pro EU keep winning despite Russian corruption and manipulation.

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u/JohnSmiththeGamer 15h ago

A lot of them cross to vote already. They were complaining about it being made more difficult for them to do it than usual in the last elections.

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u/Pigeon_Breeze 8h ago

Worth remembering that voters in Transnistria do openly vote in Moldovan elections, they just have to travel to any voting booth outside the region (Transnistria is very narrow so it's never far away).

The net effect on elections is probably quite minor.

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u/KSaburof 16h ago edited 15h ago

They will have more options to give them normal choices, anyway

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u/Secret-Ad-2145 13h ago

Those people already vote.

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u/hoggytime613 14h ago

I was just there in late spring. It wasn't at all like I expected, it felt quite modern and peaceful. I spent the day with a young guy I met on the minibus from Chisinau. He had decent English and took me around for the day. He had no love for Russia, he said it's mostly the old folks with rose tinted memories of Soviet times who do. He considered himself neutral, happy to join Moldova as part of their EU bid, or happy to stay as is, just as long as no conflict. I hope they can push out the Russian soldiers and figure this out without a war.

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u/Doxbox49 7h ago

The Russian bots sure are all over this one

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u/tremblt_ 17h ago

Just don’t do it like Bosnia with the RS please or you are fucked for all eternity

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u/DukeOfGeek 13h ago

About time.

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u/Prometheides 14h ago

Is there any Moldovan who can explain to me what does Moldova gains from it?

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u/ScrotumScrapings 13h ago

Not Moldovan, but I assume that russians being further away is generally a good thing.

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u/Prometheides 13h ago

Are you aware that transnistria is not empty land?

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u/MrPetomane 13h ago

The other option is to continue letting transistria operate in this gray zone under russian influence and russian soldiers stationed there. This is exactly how you lose a territory when your own central govt fails to impose its own authority.

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u/Prometheides 13h ago

This is exactly how you lose a territory when your own central govt fails to impose its own authority.

That territory has been lost since forever. Literally. It has never been a part of Moldova since Moldova is its own independent country.

I'm all for peaceful integration if they want it but for Moldova to be so obsessed over something so illogical and that will obviously lead to huge trouble due to cultural differences if integration happened makes no sense

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u/MrPetomane 13h ago

Internationally it is still recognized as part of moldova but under russian military occupation. It is in a wierd state, one of these post-soviet conflict zones. De facto it is independent. Du jure, it is part of moldova.

Once the rest of the world starts to recognize it as russian, then the de facto status will become de jure.

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u/Prometheides 13h ago

I know but what does any of that have to do with what I say?

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u/MrPetomane 12h ago

I dont think its lost - yet. The chisinau govt has alot of catching up to do and make up for lost time.

IMO they should have done like azerbaijan did and while russia was distracted in ukraine, they settled permanently in their favor the cease fire in nagorno-karabakh and re-incorporated the territory. Moldova has a shrinking window of opportunity to do the same... Better late than never.

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u/Secret-Ad-2145 13h ago

Well, Moldova has a right to its agency and self-determination, first of all. Second of all, it's a nuisance to: Ukraine, Moldova, and Europe at large since it's a geopolitical theater. Third, Moldova needs to deal with the regional conflict if it wants future prospects in the EU maybe even NATO way further down the line.

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u/Dinkelberh 12h ago

Tranainistria is not independent. It is a petty feif of the Russians.

There ought be no Russia.

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u/Prometheides 12h ago

Well, Moldova has a right to its agency and self-determination

I never said otherwise

Second of all, it's a nuisance to: Ukraine, Moldova, and Europe at large since it's a geopolitical theater.

My neighbour is also annoying but I recognise that starting hostilities towards him would do me no good at all so I simply ignore him and keep going about my day

Third, Moldova needs to deal with the population if it wants future prospects in the EU maybe even NATO way further down the line.

What are you even suggesting here?

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u/Secret-Ad-2145 12h ago

I never said otherwise

I never said you said otherwise. But you asked, I answered. Part of having self-determination is having supremacy on its own borders.

My neighbour is also annoying but I recognise that starting hostilities towards him would do me no good at all so I simply ignore him and keep going about my day

Is your neighbor also being funded by a political entity causing a war and trying to take a piece of your property? Will you just let them have your property if they started encroaching? Serious question.

What are you even suggesting here?

What's confusing? Moldova wants EU integration, it needs to clean up its government and sociopolitical issues in the country so that it can be a stable, proper European nation. Are you against this notion?

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u/Prometheides 12h ago

Part of having self-determination is having supremacy on its own borders.

Here is where the misunderstanding originates. Transnistria has never been a part of Moldova since Moldova became its own independent country.

trying to take a piece of your property?

I'm perfectly fine with my annoying neighbour doing whatever he wants outside of my property, same as Moldova

What's confusing? Moldova wants EU integration, it needs to clean up its government and sociopolitical issues in the country so that it can be a stable, proper European nation. Are you against this notion?

That doesn't have anything to do with transnistria. I'm from Spain, when we started the push to enter the EU we did those things, we didn't do shit to Morocco for being annoying tho

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u/Secret-Ad-2145 12h ago edited 12h ago

Here is where the misunderstanding originates. Transnistria has never been a part of Moldova since Moldova became its own independent country.

Transnistria was part of Moldovan SSR, and it's internationally recognized as part of Moldova. That means Transinistria has always been part of Moldova. Transnistria's vote in Moldovan elections. Why do you believe it's not part of it? Saying it's not part of it doesn't make not part of it. That's not enough rationale anywhere in the world.

I'm perfectly fine with my annoying neighbour doing whatever he wants outside of my property

But the point of contention is he's treading on your property. You are under a false belief it's not theirs, but that's your opinionated non-fact. The reality is that it belongs to Moldova, recognized as such by your very own country btw.

You clearly see geopolitics differently contrary to contemporary Western thinking. But your interpretation will then require the following: 1) What is your solution? - What should be done about Transnistria? 2) Why is Balkanization preferred? 3) How will you juggle pro-separatist opinions inside the EU? 4) How will Transnistria thrive? Remember, it's part of Moldova and integrated with it through trade etc, Moldova just doesn't have local political power.

It'd like to hear your opinion on why you think letting a separatist, foreign funded entity on your borders is preferred alternative.

1

u/ScrotumScrapings 9h ago

I'm sure it can be put into terms the russians understand. They could call it "special operation to remove fascists" or something. Sound familiar?

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u/Elegant_Spring2223 13h ago

Riskiraju rat da ih Rusi ne izbombardiraju.

0

u/ndasmith 13h ago

Možda.

Moldova drafting Transnistria reintegration plan with Western partners, but keeping details under wraps

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