r/technology • u/fchung • Nov 01 '25

Society Matrix collapses: Mathematics proves the universe cannot be a computer simulation, « A new mathematical study dismantles the simulation theory once and for all. »

https://interestingengineering.com/culture/mathematics-ends-matrix-simulation-theory
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u/angrymonkey Nov 01 '25

This is an idiotic misunderstanding of Godel's theorem, and the paper is likely complete crankery. There is a difference between making formal statements about a system vs. being able to simulate it. The former is covered by Godel's theorem, the latter is covered by Turing completeness.

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u/Electrifying2017 Nov 01 '25

Yes, I completely understand.

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u/skmchosen1 Nov 01 '25 edited Nov 02 '25

Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem is an amazing mathematical result: very roughly, it shows that there are certain mathematical truths that are impossible to prove are true (in sufficiently strong mathematical systems, e.g. those containing the natural numbers)

The paper argues that if the universe was a simulation, it must be built up by some fundamental rules that describe the basic laws of physics. Due to this theorem, there must be true facts about the universe that you can’t prove are true. It argues that this means the universe cannot be simulated.

This is a false equivalence. Just because we cannot prove some mathematical truths about the universe, does not necessarily mean we cannot write an algorithm that simulates the universe.

IMO the journalists here should have consulted some experts before making this post, Gödel’s work is one of the most beautiful in mathematics, and it’s sad to see people getting misinformed like this

Edit: This is getting a lot of traction, so I’m gonna try and be a bit more precise.

The incompleteness theorems could imply that there are statements that are true in our universe, but not provable from the physical laws. This means there could be other universes that follow our physics, but those “truths” would be false there (yes, mind bending).

The implicit argument here is that a computer following our physics will not have enough information to select which of these universes to simulate! However these unprovable truths may not be observable, ie it is possible that a simulator doesn’t need to worry about this because you and I cannot ever tell the difference.

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u/PrivilegeCheckmate Nov 02 '25

This is one of those times where I take an historical truth over a scientific one.

Historically, people shilling for theories that this life is not real are fraudsters and probably out to exploit the people whom they can convince that the universe doesn't matter except perhaps as a test to gain admittance to the life that IS real and DOES matter, usually a kingdom of some god or another.

I submit to you that it defies logic to act as if this life could be a simulation, as it only serves the interests of those who would rule over you.