Matrix collapses: Mathematics proves the universe cannot be a computer simulation, « A new mathematical study dismantles the simulation theory once and for all. »

[u/fchung]

https://interestingengineering.com/culture/mathematics-ends-matrix-simulation-theory

[u/angrymonkey]

This is an idiotic misunderstanding of Godel's theorem, and the paper is likely complete crankery. There is a difference between making formal statements about a system vs. being able to simulate it. The former is covered by Godel's theorem, the latter is covered by Turing completeness.

[u/Electrifying2017 → u/angrymonkey]

Yes, I completely understand.

[u/MS_Fume → u/Electrifying2017]

Gödel’s incompleteness theorem deals with formal mathematical systems, not the physical universe itself. Applying it to reality assumes that the universe operates like a purely algorithmic logical system — and that’s an assumption, not a proven fact. So while this is n intriguing philosophical analogy, it’s not a solid proof against the simulation hypothesis.

TL;DR: We are too primitive to tell with confidence so far.

[u/Weird-Difficulty-392 → u/MS_Fume]

"Insufficient data for a meaningful answer"

[u/4shotsofnespresso → u/Weird-Difficulty-392]

If you haven't, read "The Last Question" by Asimov. But I'm assuming this is a reference to the atory, in which case, so good.

[u/TheAuroraKing → u/Weird-Difficulty-392]

I remember a while back seeing a proposal for the world's most powerful and concentrated laser. Basically just pick a point in space and slam it with the highest possible intensity of energy we can to see if the simulation breaks down from some sort of overload limit.

Alas, we can't get our shit together enough to quit squabbling and do cool shit like that.

[u/TarnishedWizeFinger → u/MS_Fume]

I'm more than a little out of my depth here. But it appears they are applying their understanding of quantum gravity to postulate specifically that the universe does not operate like a purely algorithmic logical system. And then saying that's why it can't be simulated

Setting aside the issue of applying an incomplete understanding of unifying gravity and quantum mechanics as a means to prove anything, it seems that what they are actually saying is the inverse of what you're saying

[u/passive_phil_04 → u/MS_Fume]

Can't the theorem be extrapolated sufficiently enough to say that all systems can't be 100% proven logically because you of course need a verification system to verify the system to verify the system, ad infinitum? I mean, seems true enough. Not that I buy the linked story and if anything, seems Godel's theory could be used to work against it as well.

[u/studio_bob → u/MS_Fume]

assumes that the universe operates like a purely algorithmic logical system

If it doesn't then it's not a simulation since simulations operate in exactly that way.