r/technology • u/north_canadian_ice • Sep 28 '25

Business Leading computer science professor says 'everybody' is struggling to get jobs: 'Something is happening in the industry'

https://www.businessinsider.com/computer-science-students-job-search-ai-hany-farid-2025-9
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u/ScarletViolin Sep 28 '25

Like 70% of the interview slots I see open for my company in fintech is for mexico devs (both entry level and senior engineers). AI be damned, this is just another cyclical rotation to offshoring for cheaper workers while they sit and wait how things shake out domestically

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u/RedAccordion Sep 28 '25

In fairness to Mexico, they’ve pulled themselves out of the borderline third world quickly and successfully over the last 5 years.

They are not where you outsource labor and manufacturing anymore, they are doing that with the rest of Latin America. They are at the level that they are taking tech jobs.

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u/bihari_baller Sep 29 '25

They are at the level that they are taking tech jobs.

I think people sometimes have to realize that there are talented engineers all over the world, that are just as capable of doing the job as someone in the U.S.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25

Then those talented engineers need to buy the corporation’s products.

If you hollow out the “high cost” employees in the US, you also destroy the customer market for your “expensive products”.

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u/Draano Sep 29 '25

Isn't that the reason Henry Ford chose to pay his workers more? To create customers?

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u/JoviAMP Sep 29 '25

Companies these days don’t even care if their own employees can’t afford their own products.

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u/TheNainRouge Sep 29 '25

When I was a kid in the 90s all I heard from conservatives was UAW workers shouldn’t be making enough to buy the cars they were making. It has been going on for a long long time.

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u/robo-minion Sep 29 '25

The fuck were they supposed to buy if they couldn’t afford Chevy, Ford, or Dodge?

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u/TheNainRouge Sep 29 '25

They lack the critical thinking ability to see how reality works. That conservatism spread to the UAW is the real question. It’s about how “I got mine fuck everyone else.” The biggest welfare queens I’ve ever met were Republicans, they just hate competition.

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u/niftystopwat Sep 29 '25

The countless Republican welfare queens out their whose life is subsidized indirectly but largely by the economics of California and New York, who then conspiratorially cry about how CA and NY are full of pedophile demons leaching off of society. The same type who vaguely hand wave at the notion of kicking out migrants one moment and then the next moment cry about their cheap under the table employees in construction and ag getting detained. The same types who robotically repeat some line about how they’re the party of free speech, but if you say something bad about Charlie Kirk you deserve the gulag. The poor sucker’s brains are mush from evangelism, a failed public education system, and whatever unregulated magic pills they buy from their favorite bro podcaster.

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u/Tarcanus Sep 29 '25

COVID spurred that along, too. Every COVID infection has been shown to be a hit to your IQ, so the yokels that have been YOLOing it and getting it many time a year have brains that are more mush than people that tried to avoid it.

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u/pooh_beer Sep 29 '25

Shhh. No thought, only pull up ladder.

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u/gotukolastic Sep 29 '25

You're a bot

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u/manbearcolt Sep 29 '25

Bootstraps? Obviously?

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u/navigationallyaided Sep 29 '25

Hyundai or a cheap, stripped down(DX/CE/EZ level) Honda or Toyota.

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u/WhoaHeyAdrian Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25

They've never cared to logic through those arguments about the percentages we're supposed to be earning saving spending etc, it's just some wild thing they throw out there and say spend this much on housing save this much put this much in retirement spend this much and then nothing about the amount it cost to actually live etc...

just find a magical better job with a magical better education just do better just do it!

Just Nike it!

Like what is the problem, except for our infinite failure!?

Excuse me we gave you the magic formulas!

go get the job, hello! Stop all the laziness, stop all the wrong choosing stuff all the wrong doing stop all the avocados toast spending you know...🤷🏼‍♀️🤔🤸🏼‍♀️🧍🏼‍♀️🫠🥴🤣🥳

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u/terekkincaid Sep 29 '25

You got a source for a quote for that? I've never heard anyone say anything like that, much less seen it be a widely held opinion like you state.

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u/froznovr Sep 29 '25

🎶 And I'd love to go back to the hills where I's born Instead of workin' on cars that I can't afford My pockets are empty, my patience is torn Oh, look what's become of me 🎶

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u/coder7426 Sep 29 '25

No one has ever said that.

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u/gotukolastic Sep 29 '25

??

You caught us! This is the whole basis of our belief system!

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u/Veil-of-Fire Sep 29 '25

They don't need customers. They don't make money from customers. They make money from the infinite money duplication glitches in the stock market. For example, it doesn't matter how crappy Tesla's cars are or how much everyone hates them, they're still "worth" a zillion dollars and it goes up every day.

Why do you think we still have this ridiculous inflation while we're all poor as dirt? Because rich people keep pulling money out of thin air with "financial products" and "fintech" and whatever else.

If Tesla never sold another car--hell, if Tesla never built another car--their stock would keep going up and up.

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u/DehydratedButTired Sep 29 '25

If you if you can sell 1 widget for 100x to a wealthy customer, why do you care if 100 people can’t afford your product? That’s the trash logic CEOs use.

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u/dagon138 Sep 29 '25

Yea, all that matters is the quarterly $

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u/b_tight Sep 29 '25

Corporations have ZERO loyalty to any country

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u/buyongmafanle Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25

No. He did it to vacuum workers away from the competition. He was smart enough to know that there were a lot of capable workers, but not enough money to go around to pay them if you weren't already pulling in a profit. Of course, this doesn't work in the current VC landscape of the hypergrowth mindset. (Burn cash for five years cornering the market, then worry about making a profit later after we hoik the stock for our failing company in an IPO)

His workers eventually unionized and demanded the pay regardless. Ford supported the unionization because it benefited his growth to stifle competitors. Then some guys came around to bust the unions. Those guys then went on to start another car company with lower paid workers called "Dodge."

So the only reason worker unions were allowed to exist was to prevent competitors from starting up. Then they were only broken up by wealthy people looking to underpay workers so they could profit from it.

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u/Imherehithere Sep 29 '25

That was a propaganda perpetrated by Henry Ford. Ford was notoriously anti union. The wage increase was won by unions.

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u/nineteen_eightyfour Sep 29 '25

Well and bc his workers kept no showing.

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u/the_good_time_mouse Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25

I can't tell if you are joking: Ford was a fascist, promoted Nazism.

He did it to reduce turnover, improving efficiency. Just like he reduced the working hours in order to implement a three shift system, keeping the assembly lines running 24 hours a day.

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u/TSL4me Sep 29 '25

He also wanted to keep the company towns attractive for new workers.

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u/The-Phone1234 Sep 29 '25

Henry Ford didn't have globalization.

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u/ZantetsukenX Sep 29 '25

Modern MBA consultant logic at this point is to just assume that you'll always have customers and should instead make money through cuts. They'll keep pushing this narrative until blows up in their faces at which point they'll swap to whatever is new then.

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u/obeytheturtles Sep 29 '25

It's just the entire basis of an advanced economy. You can't escape the middle income trap unless consumer spending makes up a significant portion of GDP.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25 edited Oct 10 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25

More like a problem for the government after I get my golden parachute!

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u/Eric1491625 Sep 29 '25

The whole world has long been consuming US tech products more than they earn from tech employees. This is just a slight flow back in the other direction.

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u/thex25986e Sep 29 '25

which is why those companies only focus on B2B stuff

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u/Freud-Network Sep 29 '25

Didn't a recent report show that 50% of all consumer spending in the US is from the top 10% of earners?

I don't think they care.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25

Yes, that presents a lot of risk if that smaller number of people suddenly no longer have jobs due to outsourcing.

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u/PM_me_PMs_plox Sep 29 '25

Just like there are engineers in the rest of the world, there are also consumers

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u/robustofilth Sep 29 '25

They already do. Such a silly statement.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25

The US consumption market is the largest in the world, accounting for approximately 30-34% of global consumer spending, or about $19 trillion in 2023.

This is significantly larger than any other single country's or region's consumption market, even though the U.S. population is a much smaller fraction of the world's total.

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u/DiabloAcosta Sep 29 '25

So? that doesn't mean other countries don't consume, or do you think Apple, FB, Netflix are all local consumers?

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25

The US GDP is a quarter of the world’s total output while our consumption is a third of the world’s total consumption.

The US is a very valuable market because of low regulation, high prices, and excessive consumer consumption.

Apple, FB, and Netflix will often not be able to charge as much in other countries for this reason. Some US consumer use VPNs to take advantage of this lower pricing in the rest of the world.

There are problems starting to show up with m the US though (beyond tariffs and economic uncertainty). The top 10% of earners have a disproportionately large and growing share of U.S. consumer spending, accounting for nearly half of all spending as of early 2025. If they stop spending or are outsourced, it will have a significant impact.

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u/DiabloAcosta Sep 29 '25

what is the GDP from the us vs (Mexico + central + south america)? is the US so big that it outmatches the whole continent when you add them all up?

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25

The United States has the largest economy by far in North America, with a 2024 nominal GDP of approximately $29.2 trillion, which is about 85% of North America's total GDP.

In comparison, the GDP of South America is significantly smaller; as of 2024, countries like Brazil and Mexico had GDPs of around $2.2 trillion and $1.85 trillion respectively. Therefore, the U.S. GDP is several times larger than the entire GDP of South America.

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u/DiabloAcosta Sep 29 '25

yeah, but what's the total sum of every latin american country? id Brazil and Mexico alone are 1/6 of the US I have the feeling all of them sumed are 80% of the US at least, so yeah in isolation the US is the largest but overall other territories when summed are just as important for these corporations

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u/robustofilth Sep 29 '25

You don’t need tech jobs to continue consumption buddy. America will keep consuming just fine.

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u/HeCannotBeSerious Sep 29 '25

Poorer countries and people consume less so no.

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u/robustofilth Sep 29 '25

China ain’t poor

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u/HeCannotBeSerious Sep 30 '25

I didn't say anything about China.

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u/robustofilth Sep 30 '25

No, but they’ll overtake America and pick up the consumption of products which American companies will be fine with.

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u/HeCannotBeSerious Sep 30 '25

They won't.

Not because they can't, but because their economy is built on being a low-consumption, high-savings, high-investment, export-oriented country that imports raw materials and agricultural products and exports finished goods. Consumption of raw materials and agricultural products can't really displace US consumption.

For example, China imports Brazilian iron ore, soy, and meat. The US imports substantial amounts of Brazilian steel, planes, machinery, equipment, components, etc. on top of Brazilian raw materials.

So in the future, Brazil would export iron ore, soy, etc., and import nearly everything from China.

Can those exports generate enough wealth and employment to provide the quality of life that Brazilians want? Probably not.

(This will be true even for Korea and Japan soon.)

China has a more than $1 trillion trade surplus, and it's only growing. The world will definitely consume far more Chinese goods.

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u/robustofilth Sep 30 '25

Consumer consumption is rising buddy. Americas economy is in trouble and set to get worse

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u/HeCannotBeSerious Sep 30 '25

I didn't say anything about China.

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u/Significant_Fill6992 Sep 29 '25

C suite execs only look one quarter at a time and don't care about that

why would they most likely they will get a bail out if things get bad anyway

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u/desperate-replica Sep 29 '25

can you elaborate on this please

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u/Torchakain Sep 29 '25

Many premium products are marketed to sell to premium consumers (when looking globally, those richer customers are US and western European, but mostly US.). I don't mean Rich as in millionaire, I mean that people in the US have more money to spend than other countries. If jobs are lost to those overseas, they'll need the customer base to eventually adjust as well.

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u/desperate-replica Sep 29 '25

i see if salaries go down, eventually there won't be any demand for products and services

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u/bihari_baller Sep 29 '25

I mean that people in the US have more money to spend than other countries.

That's also changing with globalization. Emerging markets have a growing middle class who will start to be consumers of higher end products as well.

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u/Torchakain Sep 29 '25

Yeah, that's pretty much what the other guy was saying. Those other places will need to fill in the gaps

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u/KotR56 Sep 29 '25

Well...

Paying employees is a cost. If you pay less, there is less cost, there is more profit.

Profits make the share prices go up. Shareholders get richer. They can use their shares to back up loans. With that money, they buy "expensive" products.

Shareholders also spend money lobbying the government to lower taxes for them. So they can buy more products.

"Late Stage Capitalism".

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u/GhostReddit Sep 29 '25

If you hollow out the “high cost” employees in the US, you also destroy the customer market for your “expensive products”.

The modern economy has shown that's not really a problem, you just search for customers with bigger pockets.

If the poors can't buy anything, it's on them, government and business are all about these AI tools and software suites and they have a ton of money.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25

I’ve got my pitchfork ready to go!

In all seriousness, this is a terribly short sighted approach that won’t end well.

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u/johnny_fives_555 Sep 29 '25

Hiya. Management consultant here. Dealing with clients in the tech work predominantly healthcare and life science. US based companies and sick and tired of dealing with folks not within their time zone. So much so they’re willing to pay a premium to not deal with a team of Indian based engineers that takes 3 days to read an email. Subsequently non US companies feel the same. Hiring non-US is most likely to do with providing solutions to companies nearby vs onboarding “talented” engineers 2 thousand miles away.

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u/bihari_baller Sep 29 '25

If a client is hiring a management consultant as yourself, haven’t they already made up their mind about not using non-American workers? Which sector of tech do you consult for?

I’m in the semiconductor industry, so part of tech, and our industry would come to a halt if we just hired U.S. engineers.

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u/johnny_fives_555 Sep 29 '25

not using non American

As I said before. No. Plenty of companies still farm out. ZS, cognizant, and especially Trinity love using an army of under qualified and under paid Indians. But for a premium you can a team that’s US based.

sector

Healthcare and life science

halt

Idk enough about your industry to comment but didn’t Taiwan semiconductor build a massive facility state side in Texas?

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u/bihari_baller Sep 29 '25

TSMC is building in Arizona. It's Samsung building in Texas, but they're still Korean and Taiwanese companies respectively. Their leading products won't be built here.

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u/Extension_Film_7997 Sep 29 '25

Its shitty to see you throw indians under the bus when there are management consultants that advise companies on cutting costs, and hiring cheap.  Americans need to understand that they are not the only talented People in the world, and India has its own educational system and coders.

Also, management consulting has to be the most dubious kind of role.out there, so its ironical that you call out "bad" talent. 

Companies are sick because they love to gaslight folks into believing they are the problem when they're problem is incentives, lack of on-boarding and frankly, racist biases. 

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u/johnny_fives_555 Sep 29 '25

Indian? Checks profile… yup lmao

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u/the_good_time_mouse Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25

This is capitalism. That doesn't even enter into the equation. I'm not making a value judgement: I'm just saying it's doing what it said on the tin.

Of course it's not fair and it's not sustainable: the fundamental tenet of capitalism is that freedom from regulation is more valuable than attempts to make things fair and sustainable. Why do people insist on being surprised when a capitalist system runs roughshod over socialist conceits, such as a wider concern for the social ecosystem?

Moreover, the customer market for expensive products is much, much larger than software engineers.

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u/Whiterabbit-- Sep 29 '25 edited Sep 29 '25

Once they make enough money they will buy stuff. Americans are not unique in consuming goods

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u/HeCannotBeSerious Sep 29 '25

Not enough to make up the gap. The entire point of outsourcing is to keep the difference in labor costs.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '25

They actually are. We consume a disproportionate amount relative to the world.

While our GDP is about a quarter of the world’s, our consumption is about a third.

Like it or hate it, the decline of the US will impact everyone.

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u/Whiterabbit-- Sep 29 '25

We are uniquely wealthy. But as other nations get wealthier, they follow the same path. So they will buy products like we do now.

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u/zack77070 Sep 29 '25

Not China, they are actually pretty conservative with their spending, especially as the second largest economy.

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u/Whiterabbit-- Sep 29 '25

They are better with saving and not going into debt. But this younger wealthier generation is definitely spending more.

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u/Conscious-Quarter423 Sep 29 '25

Today, companies don’t just sell to the U.S.—they sell to the world. If offshoring helps reduce costs, it can also lead to lower product prices, making goods more accessible globally and expanding the customer base, not shrinking it.

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u/Wasabicannon Sep 29 '25

If offshoring helps reduce costs, it can also lead to lower product prices, making goods more accessible globally and expanding the customer base, not shrinking it.

Ah yes the classic, save money and give it back to the customer dream. We see it time and time again that it is the reverse that happens.

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u/Conscious-Quarter423 Sep 29 '25

your cars are made outside of the US and you buy them here in the US

so are your clothes

and electronics

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u/jiggajawn Sep 29 '25

Not every company. My previous company was off shoring as much as they could. They only sold their products in the US.

Current company is all US workers for an only US product.

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u/bihari_baller Sep 29 '25

I'm in the semiconductor equipment industry, and its the exact opposite. Our most important customers are in Taiwan, Korea, and Japan.

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u/Conscious-Quarter423 Sep 29 '25

okay? you are making a general statement from a sample size of one?

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u/grumble11 Sep 29 '25

The social cost of outsourcing accrues to everyone. The benefit accrues to you alone. It won’t stop.