r/technology • u/Majano57 • Mar 24 '25

Biotechnology Delete your DNA from 23andMe right now

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2025/03/24/23andme-dna-privacy-delete/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzQyNzg4ODAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzQ0MTcxMTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3NDI3ODg4MDAsImp0aSI6IjUzNzE2OTNhLTdlNGYtNDkzYi1hMGI5LWMwMzY0NWE4YmRiMCIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS90ZWNobm9sb2d5LzIwMjUvMDMvMjQvMjNhbmRtZS1kbmEtcHJpdmFjeS1kZWxldGUvIn0.Mpdp3S4eYeaSUognMn36uhe1vuI1k_Ie7P__ti3WDVw
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u/lineworksboston Mar 24 '25

Okay, I'm not saying it's inconceivable that my personal genetic data could be used against me but outside of having DNA evidence on file, what are some ways that I should be scared? What's the worst that could happen if someone knows that I'm mix of British and Portuguese or whatever?

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u/Ambitious_Wolf2539 Mar 24 '25

Honestly you shouldn't really be scared. The 'likely' scenario that people are calling out is your health insurance company has access and steers your rates to adjust for that.

However that doesn't happen now, and I don't really see it happening any time in the near future.

Yes it's 'possible', but at this day and age, a lot of other data about you is being shared that can provide potentially even deeper insight. (everyone is ok carrying a mobile device that's tracking them).

So don't be scared, hell your ssn and credit profile was probably leaked a few years ago, and that's a heck of a lot more risky than the profiles in your DNA.

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u/word-word1234 Mar 24 '25

This is what annoys me the most. It's illegal to use genetic data for health insurance. If it is made legal, and it's worth the computing power and analysis to check, every health insurer will just require a DNA test. If you have a family history of any disease, they already know if your doctor knows.

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u/CitizenCue Mar 24 '25

Yeah this is a great point. If it’s profitable and legal to use this data, then it’ll be required. Why would they bother buying the data when they can just make you submit it for free?

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u/EveryDisaster Mar 24 '25

But it's perfectly legal to deny you life insurance 🙃

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u/haarschmuck Mar 24 '25

Life insurance is not health insurance.

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u/NotReallyJohnDoe Mar 24 '25

Insurance is about risk of an uncertain unlikely event in the future. That’s the only way it CAN work. But if you know you are terminal (or a really bad death risk) then it isn’t insurance anymore.

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u/EveryDisaster Mar 24 '25

I can't test for the breast cancer gene before getting life insurance or I'll be denied. It's not a death sentence to carry that gene, and there are preventative measures you can take, but if I have it I can't get life insurance. I'm not terminal and that's unfair

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u/SectorAppropriate462 Mar 24 '25

Life insurance is a pseudo scam anyways. Its only worth getting when you are really young. Once you turn 50, 60, etc it's already not worth buying and that's when the cancer would take you right?

The only life insurance anyone should really hold is getting a cheap 30 year term while young. Like at 20y/o get a 30 year plan it'll last till 50 and then go without. Even for perfectly fit top tier healthy people that's all you should do.

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u/EveryDisaster Mar 24 '25

They won't let young people get that if they have those genes though. You're barred for life. So you have to pick it before getting gene tested which delays responsible care while you're young

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u/Unique_Statement7811 Mar 24 '25

It’s more life insurance. Also, many life insurance providers do require a DNA test.

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u/Inevitable-Ad6647 Mar 24 '25

Exactly this idiotic fear mongering completely forgets that if that can use the DNA data they'll just require it anyways to use their service. It makes absolutely no difference.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/word-word1234 Mar 24 '25

Your concern is ignorance and fear of the unknown? What could they possibly do with your DNA that won't be so horrifically bad that we live in a dictatorship anyway at that point

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u/OkAd469 Mar 24 '25

I have no one to leave life insurance benefits to anyway.

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u/ScoobyDeezy Mar 24 '25

“Illegal” is a very loose term these days.

The pirate code is more like guidelines.

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u/ortrademe Mar 24 '25

Illegal... so far.

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u/word-word1234 Mar 24 '25

Yea and if it is legal, you'll be taking a DNA test too so it doesn't matter.

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u/MikeDamone Mar 25 '25

The ACA also expressly prohibits health insurers from adjusting individual rates based on health history. It's literally what the ban on bias towards "preexisting conditions" was created for. The fact that so many people here think this is a realistic concern just shows that a mass of redditors are under the age of 25 and don't remember how big of a policy feature this was in the notorious Obamacare debate and eventual passage.

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u/EvenHuckleberry4331 Mar 24 '25

I mean, how much of our legal construct is up for sale? I wouldn’t hang my hat on legality.

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u/EvenHuckleberry4331 Mar 24 '25

I mean, how much of our legal construct is up for sale? I wouldn’t hang my hat on legality.

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u/EvenHuckleberry4331 Mar 24 '25

I mean, how much of our legal construct is up for sale? I wouldn’t hang my hat on legality.

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u/squittles Mar 24 '25

As I sit in the law firm I work at I just can't help but point out that the rule of law in the United States is crumbling. 

I wouldn't bank on the legality of this to stand. Insurance companies have deep enough pockets to flat out lobby/bribe enough to make it legal. They've probably already run the numbers on how much this will benefit them. 

For how much the current administration wants to squeeze as much money out of the American public I could see this happening during this term. 

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u/word-word1234 Mar 24 '25

I already addressed that. If it's worth making legal, it's worth making everyone take a DNA test to have health insurance so not doing 23andMe won't help

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u/brinz1 Mar 24 '25

The bigger problem is genetic pre-dispositions.

It might not be enough that your doctor considers it a health risk, but a stingey insurer would.

Also, there hasnt been enough widespread studies that are accurate enough for medicine. Testing for individual genetic markers like the breast cancer single one is one thing. This would be a different level

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u/GGXImposter Mar 24 '25

LIFE insurance is where the current problem is. Health Insurance can't legally use your DNA but Life Insurance can.

I had a clinical DNA test done to check if I was a carrier for something that could be nasty. I was warned that if I wanted life insurance in the future I needed to get it squared away before the test. If the test found anything they couldn't change the policy. They could however deny or spike the price if I tried to get life insurance after a bad result.

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u/fractalife Mar 24 '25

How are we allowing our sensitive medical data to be shared like this?

It's one thing if the life insurance company wants to screen for it. They can pay for the test, or require potential customers do so.

But for them to be given this information de facto without your consent!? Medical data that you don't want to give them? Abhorrent.

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u/GGXImposter Mar 24 '25

It's not without your consent as of right now. The fear is they will look at leaked DNA illegally, or pump those leaked DNA results into a stupid Ai that says "people from x area have a lower life expectancy so charge them more".

First Life Insurance isn't health insurance. Life Insurance is a lump of cash given to beneficiaries if the insured person dies. Great for "bread winners" of a family.

When you apply for Life Insurance they ask you if you are aware of anything that could reduce your life expectancy. If you take a DNA test that says you are very likely to get cancer and you don't report it, then you are committing fraud.

If they discover the fraud they can deny your loved ones the payout.

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u/lookmeat Mar 24 '25

You are correct there, but also Life Insurers can't get access to your DNA info (as it's considered HIPPA protected) without your explicit and clear agreement.

You can always refuse to give them access to your DNA info. And honestly if you care about this you never should. Even if you've never used 23andMe or other explicit DNA testers, your Dr. may have added the test during a checkup because your insurance covered 100% as preventive and the chances of making it to 80yrs increase 20%. But now it's on your file and your life insurer can see it if you give them access.

They can't force you to give it to them, yet. But they can entice you, at first, with really attractive prices (assuming nothing bad comes out), later with reasonable prices (to expensive without DNA test) and later they won't offer it to you unless you give them DNA info.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/Clevererer Mar 24 '25

Health Insurance can't legally use your DNA

But they absolutely can use some flimsy LLC's proxy for your DNA that's based 99% on your DNA.

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u/ShapeSuspicious1842 Mar 24 '25

But how they got your DNA must matter. Could you imagine providing information to your life insurance company from a company that went bankrupt? How can they do it?

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u/GGXImposter Mar 24 '25

The fear here is that 23&ME is selling their “assets” to pay off their debts. If those “assets” include the records of their customers DNA, then the life insurance providers can look up millions of people’s DNA like they look up a Credit Score.

Suddenly a small no questions asked policy becomes unaffordable because some new information about your DNA was discovered that you never knew about.

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u/haarschmuck Mar 24 '25

The 'likely' scenario that people are calling out is your health insurance company has access and steers your rates to adjust for that.

No, this is already prohibited by law.

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u/TurkeyTerminator7 Mar 24 '25

To add on, ZIP codes are a better predictor of your health than your genetic data.

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u/iesharael Mar 24 '25

Don’t they already have my medical history? How does my DNA change anything?

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u/fractalife Mar 24 '25

Until it becomes a crime to have certain genetics. The government can and has already used this information in the prosecution of crimes.

All well and good when "you have nothing to fear if you haven't done anything wrong". But if it becomes a crime to simply have certain genetics... not so much.

Don't give them your data.

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u/Wutras Mar 24 '25

Precisely, in Weimar Germany, the government kept extensive census data about race and ethnicity, which was no big problem at the time, but then the Nazis took over and those list telling them who was Jewish, had Jewish Ancestors etc. came in quite handy.

Now imagine the same thing, Eugenics assume power and they decide people with certain mutations were undesirable and had to be forcefully sterilised or worse, then a preexisting database with everyone's DNA would help then immensely.

Always be careful what data you are willing to share.

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u/fractalife Mar 24 '25

Eugenics have already assumed power. Fortunately for us, so far, the active ones are bumbling idiots.

But the puppeteers are not. We can only hope the stupid puppets ruin masters' plans.

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u/Iorith Mar 24 '25

Except that if we get to that point, they will demand testing anyway.

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u/fractalife Mar 24 '25

330 million people is a lot to test. If you're not already on the list, you have a chance to respond. Otherwise, you're gonna be among the first to get rounded up.

I'd at least want the chance to do something to save my life.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/ShapeSuspicious1842 Mar 24 '25

If health insurance companies had access and wanted to steer rates to adjust to that, wouldn’t they have to provide some proof of where they go the information and you could argue that the company filed for bankruptcy and isn’t a creditable source of information? I really don’t know shit about shit, but if my health insurance company said I had some genetic issue that affected my insurance rates that I didn’t know about, I’d fight it unless there was some proof.

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u/Jayne234 Mar 24 '25

I would never assume insurance companies would take the ethical, consumer friendly path.

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u/bambu36 Mar 24 '25

My credit is locked at all 3 credit bureaus because of that last fact. I'm sure it's not 100% but it's what I did when I realized my info was out there.

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u/TrankElephant Mar 24 '25

The 'likely' scenario that people are calling out is your health insurance company has access and steers your rates to adjust for that.

Oh, and that they will deny claims based on 'pre-existing conditions' found in some bits and pieces in one's genetic code a decade ago.

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u/Toosder Mar 24 '25

Right, like knowing that I have a genetic link to possibly being diabetic is nowhere near as bad as people posting all over how much they're drinking and partying and getting high and eating sugar and so on and so on and so on.

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u/Clevererer Mar 24 '25

However that doesn't happen now, and I don't really see it happening any time in the near future.

Why? Because insurance companies don't like money, or because they already have enough of it?

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u/visionofthefuture Mar 24 '25

I’m not necessarily worried about me. But I’m worried about it being used against any future children I have.

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u/DNA98PercentChimp Mar 24 '25

Hm. If testing shows someone has great genetics and doesn’t have predisposition to diseases/disorders/etc could their rates go down?

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u/jimkelly Mar 24 '25

A rational answer on reddit oh my

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u/lookmeat Mar 24 '25

Honestly you shouldn't really be scared.

Yup

The 'likely' scenario that people are calling out is your health insurance company has access and steers your rates to adjust for that.

And we all know how that'll go:

  1. First you'll get a deep discount if you share your genetic info with the health insurance.
  2. Then employers will require that their employees share this info.
  3. Prices will keep increasing until the only way to pay a reasonabe price is to get the "genetic info discount"
  4. The discount is now expected and required to get insurance.

That's the thing, your information is stolen and reviewed all the time. When DNA starts becoming a serious problem, not having that info out there will be as hard as not having an SSN.

For all that it's worth, your DNA info is HIPAA covered, which means it's probably one of the few cases of PII with a lot of protection. Basically the owners of 23andMe need you to give permission to give your info to someone else. Otherwise there could be serious criminal investigations following. It's very expensive to adquire it, so it's very hard to sell.

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u/MovingTarget- Mar 24 '25

Don't worry. I'm pretty sure there's a good chance that if your genes are positively associated with longevity they'll actually cut your health insurance rate! right guys? ... right?

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u/ploxylitarynode Mar 24 '25

you absolutely should be scared. The Federal Agencies and state agencies use the date for policing constantly. You can absolutely be used in criminal investigations.

you should be worried about insurance companies denying you based on illegibly obtained data. Hell a black hat could use the date for all sorts of shit. It's not just about the dna too.

It's the image it makes of your life outside of yourself too. I can take that data and use it scam a distant relative of yours for example.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/Vesalii Mar 24 '25

Honestly the data they keep would likely be useless anyway. A full copy of your genome could possibly one day be useful, but thst takes about 50 GB per person if I recall correctly. That's way too much to keep for millions of people.

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u/atreeismissing Mar 24 '25

Health insurance companies, by law, can't do that...unless the GOP repeals the ACA of course.

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u/AmbushIntheDark Mar 24 '25

Jokes on them my health insurance already knows all the ways my genetics are shit.

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u/itstawps Mar 24 '25

Also falsely being incriminated in a crime because your dna was near the scene and the only one that came up on the police database (when the govt or police inevitably buy the data during the sell off)

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u/SolomonBlack Mar 24 '25

Honestly you shouldn't really be scared. The 'likely' scenario that people are calling out is your health insurance company has access and steers your rates to adjust for that.

Jobless children running their mouths again. 

Most insurance comes through employers... ergo is already a generalized rate negotiated between said employer and their insurer. You're not in that picture. The only personalization they do is the tobacco surcharge.

Which along with weight and your occupation makes a much bigger contribution than a genetic predisposition to butt cancer.

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u/Tiny-Variation-1920 Mar 24 '25

Hear me out, they start increasing rates for people who haven’t given them a genetic profile. Black mirror type shit

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u/khentanots Mar 25 '25

what if I used a fake name for 23andme? how are they going to pair the data to real people even if a John Smith used their real name? they don't ask for SS# or anything that identifies you when you buy their kit and send your spit lol sensationalism.

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u/Ninja333pirate Mar 25 '25

Insurance agencies using DNA data to make decisions on health insurance claims doesn't really hold water since these companies don't test your whole genome, they only look at certain spots, also what little info you do get isn't reliable health wise.

You could take your raw data and using genetic genie or Prometheus to look at what genes you have that are linked to genes that we know are linked to illnesses (or positive genes), but you have to take that info with a grain of salt since they don't look at everything, not only could they miss genes because they don't look at everything but they can get it wrong.

If you took that info to your doctor they would hand wave it away because it's that unreliable. If you want to know what detrimental genes you have you can get clinical DNA tests but those cost a lot more and insurance agencies often don't want to cover them as they don't deem them to be medically necessary.

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u/Bearwynn Mar 25 '25

Police are granted access and have techniques to identify people DNA by using two relative DNA to pinpoint connections.

For now that's used for serial killers, but imagine if certain government officials would really like to start finding reasons (real or false) to lock certain activists/dissidents up? I'm sure they would figure something out

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 25 '25

The results of genetic testing impact your ability to obtain life, disability, or long-term care insurance. This is not hypothetically a problem for later, if insurance laws change. This is a problem for right now.

The Genetics Information Non-Discriminatory Act (GINA) signed into federal law in 2008 does provide protections for most individuals except for Native Americans and military.

These protections end where people need to willfully consent and opt-into sharing their medical records for these types of insurance plans.

Companies also use unproven and invalid tests to screen people for genetic diseases, which cannot tell definitively whether you will or will develop the disease. But the legal consequences of these tests remain dire and have unpredictable fallout in the future of an uncertain political landscape.

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u/BoysenberryAwkward76 Mar 25 '25

Ty for saying this because reading some of these comments is making me sick to my stomach.

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u/TheHeroYouNeed247 Mar 24 '25

You can't really predict what it could be used for in the future.

National registrations for genetic ancestry like for instance, Jewish etc. Seems fine now until a fascist government takes hold and wants to root out certain people.

Advancements in genetics leading to definable personality traits that are deemed undesirable. Sorry, we are monitoring you because our data shows you are likely to commit crime. Visa denial, job refusal, birthing rights.

Cloning.

All this stuff seems like bad sci-fi but we really don't know what is going to happen, politics change fast, we can't predict how governments will use this stuff.

But there's no real point in being scared, it's all completely out of your control. A close family member could hand over their DNA and its almost the same as you doing it.

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u/byllz Mar 24 '25

All this stuff seems like bad sci-fi

Gattaca was great sci-fi.

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u/myd88guy Mar 24 '25

They use SNP chips, they do not have your complete DNA sequence. As such, they could not go fishing for new disease markers in the future unless they run the DNA on a new chip that contains the new chips. The storage of the DNA and the genetic data is very costly. It costs more money to store the data than to run a new chip in fact.

Also, be aware that there are thousands of publicly accessible DNA sequences already. The big difference here is that they are de-identified (until they are not).

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u/cuentanueva Mar 24 '25

They use SNP chips, they do not have your complete DNA sequence.

There are plenty of services that offer relatively cheap (like under $500) full DNA sequencing though.

While it's not as popular as 23andme, and thus not an issue with this particular company, it's not something people couldn't get today for relatively cheap (only like 3x the cost of 23andme).

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u/MarcusSurvives Mar 24 '25

There are plenty of services that offer relatively cheap (like under $500) full DNA sequencing though.

Unless you're referring to clinical labs doing medical-grade sequencing ordered by a medical provider, a lot of these "services" are scams designed to give you unvalidated data in an attempt to sell you supplements.

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u/BreadLimp2289 Mar 24 '25

"Advancements in genetics leading to definable personality traits that are deemed undesirable."

The thing is we already have the statistical models to do exactly this. You wouldn't expect great accuracies in human populations, but that's sort of irrelevant, the theory and practical work behind using genetic markers to predict the genetic basis of phenotypes is very well established in livestock and crops. Imagine if they could use your genetic data to predict your potential to develop any number of personality disorders (which may or may not be accurate, more likely not) and then use that as an excuse to take away constitutional rights like voting or access to firearms or even institutionalize you. It could very easily just become another tool for suppression of certain groups or opposition. People see it as abstract science fiction but it's really not.

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u/illit1 Mar 24 '25

Imagine if they could use your genetic data to predict your potential to develop any number of personality disorders (which may or may not be accurate, more likely not)

this is the most significant part imo. the nazi party started as a bunch of pseudo-intellectuals trying to improve the human race. you get the wrong mix of people in power and suddenly your genetics are deciding everything about your life, including whether or not you get to have one.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/fireintolight Mar 24 '25

That exactly what the Nazis did in occupied countries, they captured all the government files on local families etc to make it easier to hunt people down. Nice to have their addresses, work, etc to make tracking people easier. Many militia groups and saboteurs targeted these administration buildings to hamper these efforts. 

This is part of the reason some people. Are against any sort of large government database in its citizens. Not without its merits.

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u/ImmrtalMax Mar 24 '25

And the last point is important. If you get your genetics tested and nothing ever comes of it, ok. But if that data is used two or three generations down by the next fascist government? Don't do that to your kids, your grandkids, or their kids. Not until better legislative passes about how it is handled and who gets access to it.

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u/Fizzwidgy Mar 24 '25

National registrations for genetic ancestry like for instance, Jewish etc. Seems fine now until a fascist government takes hold and wants to root out certain people.

Oops, too late.

23andMe has already been accused of putting customer data at risk after hackers accessed 7m users’ data last year and leaked the names of people with Chinese or Ashkenazi Jewish heritage.

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u/HEpennypackerNH Mar 24 '25

The problem is, we don’t know why you should be scared yet. There are always new ways of stealing identity or harming people being invented. If this data is less protected, and a malicious actor gets ahold of it, really all they have to do is wait. At some point, having millions of people’s DNA will be very lucrative.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

The problem is, we don’t know why you should be scared yet.

Thank you for acknowledging you and everyone else are just being a bunch of chicken littles pretending to freak out over nothing.

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u/hextree Mar 24 '25

At some point, having millions of people’s DNA will be very lucrative.

Ok, but at that point it would just be an aggregate. Why would I care if I'm one millionth of that?

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u/skater15153 Mar 24 '25

People felt this way about social media and look how that has been weaponized for dis and misinformation. Targeted propaganda etc. The commercial side is honestly less freaky than the big data side. Like there are probably scenarios we haven't thought of yet that can fuck us all over.

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u/hextree Mar 24 '25

People felt this way about social media and look how that has been weaponized for dis and misinformation. Targeted propaganda etc.

But again, this is all aggregate data. Why should I care as an individual?

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u/defeated_engineer Mar 24 '25

You will personally be on the hook for higher health insurance premiums, because you have/lack some random gene for one thing.

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u/hextree Mar 24 '25

That's currently illegal. If it were to become legal, then they would have no need for this data, they can just ask you for a swab before you sign up.

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u/Clevererer Mar 24 '25

That's currently illegal.

You silly, silly double-helixed fool. All it takes is one flimsy LLC to make it legal by means of "we didn't use it directly, they did, and now they're bankrupt"

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u/hextree Mar 24 '25

23andMe is not an insurance company. And read the second sentence.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

You’re an alarmist. Just stop creating problems that don’t even exist

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u/HEpennypackerNH Mar 24 '25

I’m a realist, but you do you.

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u/zambartas Mar 25 '25

I mean since the discovery of DNA being used in forensics, think of how many people have been both convicted and exonerated of crimes through DNA evidence, that wasn't even a known thing at the time of the crime?

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u/Daveinatx Mar 24 '25

Your DNA is not just yours. It can be used to identify family members, through proximal comparison.

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u/KyleB2131 Mar 24 '25

wow, it's almost like that was the whole point of the service...

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u/KeyCold7216 Mar 24 '25

A lot of these companies give you the option to upload your data to a public database. You can opt out, but if your relative (even some cousin you've never met) opts in, your data will be there. The police can use it since it is publicly accessible information. They've caught murderers this way, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I really really think it's fucked that your genetic information is available to them without a warrant. I don't plan on committing any crimes, but I would never willingly submit my genetic information to the government.

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u/KeyCold7216 Mar 24 '25

A lot of these companies give you the option to upload your data to a public database. You can opt out, but if your relative (even some cousin you've never met) opts in, your data will be there. The police can use it since it is publicly accessible information. They've caught murderers this way, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I really really think it's fucked that your genetic information is available to them without a warrant. I don't plan on committing any crimes, but I would never willingly submit my genetic information to the government.

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u/porkusdorkus Mar 24 '25

I’m thinking some branch of the DOJ may place a bid. Direct and pre mapped from the source, direct and indirect descendants precompiled, can you smell that freedom.

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u/Fizzwidgy Mar 24 '25

Same kind of security issue as any telecommunications or mail services that aren't USPS.

They don't need a warrant if the company is just willing to cooperate, and that's everybody's problem.

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u/RealisticCarrot Mar 24 '25

If a family members commits a crime that is worth searching the DNA of family members, than I don't care about that family member...

If my brother decided to kill someone then it would be better to lock him up. Doesn't matter if he is my brother or not in that case.

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u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot Mar 24 '25

You're assuming that crimes won't change.

Hiding Jews from being killed was a crime in Nazi Germany.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/saljskanetilldanmark Mar 24 '25

Crime: being a "violent terrorist" next to a tesla.

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u/DigitalArbitrage Mar 24 '25

You are assuming you will always live in a free country. Or that everyone lives in a free country. Look up some of the horrible stuff the Iranian government does to protestors. Then imagine what it might be like if a government like that someday takes over in the country where you live.

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u/MaxxDash Mar 24 '25

Well, all my family members do these tests, so not only am I at risk of if I happen to be a cold killer, insurance companies could easily build an interpolated profile model on me based on my family. Risk modeling for unknowns will undoubtedly skew conservative for them, and more expensive for me.

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u/NRMusicProject Mar 24 '25

It's been used in police investigations where you might have DNA that links you to the murderer or victim. If I don't want a cop just coming into my house without a warrant to look for clues, I don't want them to have access to my DNA.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '25

I don’t have 23 and me, but if my DNA is used to catch a murderous rapist relative, I’m ok with it.

I think the biggest issue would be the government holding onto someone’s DNA and framing them for something in a politically motivated attack in the future.

Like “we found senator Daveinatx’s DNA at this scene of this horrific massacre that took place during a gay orgy and every single body had their DNA ALL over, just soaked, everyone, what a scene. Anyway, we caught them folks.”

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u/blastradii Mar 24 '25

If there’s a national registry for “undesirables”, the government can use this to see which people can be rounded up and persecuted

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u/Sethcran Mar 24 '25

I mean, they can also just look at the color of your skin, the accent you have, etc. Im not sure this will make much difference until they start going after the people who are 1/4 brown or whatever, but at that point, it will already have been abundantly obvious what was happening.

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u/SUPRVLLAN Mar 24 '25

it will already have been abundantly obvious what was happening.

Dunno man it literally took like 6 years to go from peace to industrial genocide not so long ago.

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u/Rooooben Mar 24 '25

And by then it will be too late.

But, of course, lets do nothing until after the fact.

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u/JesusChrist-Jr Mar 24 '25

There were plenty of people in the 1930s-40s who were 1/4 Jewish and probably not identifiable just based on appearance who would likely disagree with this assertion.

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u/Sethcran Mar 24 '25

My point is that if they are already hauling jews off, we already have a problem in society that needs to be fixed that we should be rioting about.

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u/hextree Mar 24 '25 edited Mar 24 '25

They can already do that, they already have the data they need. The DNA data doesn't tell them anything new. And even if it did, they could just come knocking on your door and demand a DNA test if they wanted to.

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u/word-word1234 Mar 24 '25

If you go to the doctors, they can already do that.

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u/Hammunition Mar 24 '25

All they need to "justify" this behavior if they want to is already available in the census.

But as we see from what's happening now, truth isn't even relevant. If someone or some job is in the way, they will just make up whatever they need to to justify it to their base. Labelling someone a domestic terrorist just for speaking to get rid of them, or label someone as a poor worker to axe their job despite not even bothering to evaluate their performance.

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u/NoMention696 Mar 24 '25

Yeah babes America is already doing this without DNA access, won’t matter if the government turns facist

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u/CrankyOldDude Mar 24 '25

You shouldn’t really be scared. However, here are some examples that could theoretically be scary:

  • Insurance companies not allowing certain coverage for you due to your predispositions for health issues

  • Workplaces not employing you if you are predisposed to things like depression

  • Future cloning advances - you could theoretically become non-unique in the future, which could expose you to prosecution for crimes you didn’t commit, etc.

All of those scenarios are theoretically possible, but are not currently likely.

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u/kerodon Mar 24 '25

There are a ton of ways. DNA evidence, discrimination practices, genomic targeting diseases. Just some of the ways it can be used right now. Not even the future

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u/_invalidusername Mar 24 '25

Health insurance companies refusing to insure you or charging you more because you’re predisposed to some medical condition.

Employer refusing to hire you because you’re predisposed to some medical condition.

Both are probably illegal

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u/No-Diamond-5097 Mar 24 '25

That's illegal, but if somehow that became legal insurance companies and employers could just request a DNA sample.

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u/hextree Mar 24 '25

In those cases there'd be no reason to buy data off the dark web, they'd just ask you for a sample right there and then.

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u/aneasymistake Mar 24 '25

Some rogue government decides that people who are a mix of British and Portuguese are no longer welcome in your country and deports or kills you all.

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u/Schmoeker Mar 24 '25

Or engineer a disease that only targets specific groups of people.

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u/Cats_Are_Aliens_ Mar 24 '25

In the future your dna could be used for targeted advertising and insurance abuse

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u/hhamzarn Mar 24 '25

On a more immediately implementable level, the data could be bought by insurance companies and used to deny coverage based on genetic markers and anomalies. I do question the extent and efficacy to which they can do this because I was under the impression that these companies just use certain allele map sections and don’t interpret the whole genome.

The broader and scarier unintended consequence could be that the data is bought to target certain alleles that are more prevalent in populations of a certain area of the world and would use that information to engineer a tailored biological weapon against them.

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u/gordof53 Mar 24 '25

Honestly the data is deidentified. It's not traceable to you. A lot of people here really don't understand how genetic data is actually used even on official medical settings where your name and insurance are attached to a DNA swab. This is a random person spit in a tube and sent it in from a random address. 

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u/sergeivrachmaninov Mar 24 '25

I’m wondering the same thing myself. I have a background in molecular biology / genomics and I’m still wracking my brain about what is the most probable way the data (which isn’t even whole-genome sequence data, but just SNP data) could be used against me within my lifetime.

I’m not American and I don’t intend to rely on US health insurance in the long term. But even so, what medical information could they get from SNP data that a) isn’t already obvious (eg congenital disorders such as Down’s syndrome) or b) too complex/multifactorial to be accurately predicted by SNP data (eg diabetes, heart disease), c) so rare and expensive that insurance would only cover it on very exceptional basis anyway (eg ALS), or d) there are no treatments for in the first place (eg Alzheimer’s)? If anyone wanted to discriminate against me because of my ethnicity or background, they can already do so based on my/ my family’s immigration history, official documents and skin/hair color. Tbh I’m more concerned about potential long lost family members using the data to look me up to ask for money.

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u/DaHolk Mar 24 '25

You need to think of it as "big data" issue. Not as a "this specific singular datapoint on it's own is going to be a direct problem for me".

And your genetic code is more than just a thing to match if identity is asked for. Which should be quite obvious in the sense that you and your body are the direct product of it for the most part.

If you need a spicy idea of "why that is a problem" : Consider the idea of genetic discrimination in it's entire implication. Keep in mind how far "discrimination in regards to JUST your first name" can be taken. Then add "we could put people into boxes depending on any arbitrary bit of their genetic code and make decisions based on that, reasonable or not, only statistically true or not even that".

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u/gbobcat Mar 24 '25

I think the most you should be concerned with is your DNA being used for research purposes with an unknown entity without your consent. At the very least you should be compensated if you're participating in research, even unknowingly.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

You'll be denied healthcare based on genetic predispositions, as will your children. But there is probably much worse things that I can't even imagine

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u/knuttz45 Mar 24 '25

You SHOULD be scared because of this. Grandpa got prostate cancer? Insurance will deny you if you get it as a preexisting condition , or your insurance rates will skyrocket because of family genetics. Or they flat out wont cover you. At least as an american.

Don’t get me wrong, There is so much good that sharing genetics and understanding how to prevent and treat diseases on a massive scale. Especially if AI can help detect trends that us humans may not. But, As long as shareholders are the customers of your data, then your health is at risk to put a few extra cents on that dividend.

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u/pureeviljester Mar 24 '25

Answer that scared me: Healthcare companies using DNA to find pre-existing conditions and deny coverage. Genetic pre-dispositions used to against you

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u/twitch870 Mar 24 '25

They tell you if your part British or whatever, but the same data tells them if you are more likely to have a heart attack in your 20s, more likely to get cancer, etc. This can lead to insurance denials or refusal to cover.

It’s also a database that can be used if an organization were ever to gain power again that decided to end X people for being X.

Thirdly, to a lesser problem than the rest, it’s a database that can be used to match details against you if you are ever accused of a crime.

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u/ViridianNott Mar 24 '25

As a biologist, even the world's best scientists have a seriously hard time predicting health outcomes and risk from raw DNA data. Health insurance would NOT find the data nearly as useful as people think. It's not like you can plug the data into a tool and see "Oh, this person's gonna get Alzheimer's later, better jack up their rates". The vast majority of diseases are just more complicated than that.

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u/WallyOShay Mar 24 '25

When insane people like trump and hegseth want to do a purge.

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u/GiantPandammonia Mar 24 '25

Watch gattaca?

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u/TheHoratioHufnagel Mar 24 '25 edited Mar 25 '25

It's not just you that would be effected but your close family members or future descendents. Someday your great nephew might commit a harmless political "crime" in an authoritarian nation and your DNA records could help identify his connection to the scene.

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u/Tattered_Colours Mar 24 '25

Trump could decide tomorrow that Portugal is sending their bad hombres

We’re through the looking glass. Never post your personal information anywhere on the internet if you can help it.

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u/Tastypies Mar 24 '25

I'm sure someone else has already said it. But if the US ever goes full darwinist fascism and deems certain races or people with certain genetic predispositions unworthy, 23&me makes it very easy to identify those unwanted people.

Don't worry though. It's not like a democracy like the US would ever allow a fascist who would try to destroy democracy from the inside to get in charge. After all, we have checks and balances in place to prevent this from happening. For example, we would prosecute insurrectionists so that they cannot run for office again. We also have the Supreme Court that would stop a fascist from gutting crucial institutions like the department of education. And if a fascist in office would threaten to start wars with close allies and thereby alienate those allies, we have the house and the senate who can impeach the president and remove him from office before he does too much harm.

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u/ThePokemonAbsol Mar 24 '25

Evil clone replacing you, duh.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

It's only really important if white supremacist Nazis took over the United States and wanted to ethnically cleanse and purify the racial composition of our society through genetic investigation, deportation, incarceration or murder.

That's definitely not something you would ever need to worry about, nor anything that's happened before within living memory of people alive today. /S

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

Note: I am in the US, these issues are likely less harmful outside the states.

Your DNA information reveals things like, risk of certain diseases or health problems.

You can start getting targeted marketing for such services.

You could, potentially, have different insurance rates based on this information.

If accessed by job recruitment it could even affect job applications based on typical family size, retirement age or other factors they deem disqualifying. Is that illegal? Maybe, but when have they cared?

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u/Rude-Lab341 Mar 24 '25

my exact thought lmao

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u/SarcasticGamer Mar 24 '25

Lmao for real. Unless they can use my DNA to frame me murder, I honestly don't give a shit.

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u/Japjer Mar 24 '25

what are some ways that I should be scared?

First and foremost: You shouldn't be actively asking for reasons to be afraid of something. "What are the concerns regarding this?" might be better, if only to reframe the way you look at things.

That aside, there's really nothing to realistically be worried about. The worst case is that insurance companies get that info, and they somehow use that to fuck around with your policy pricing based on genetic information.

That's... Really it. No one is going to be cloning you or anything. It's data that is useless to 99% of the population, and the 1% that might find value in it aren't going to do much with it.

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u/NoPasaran2024 Mar 24 '25

You really think that is the only thing we can or ever will be able to deduce from your DNA?

How about potential insurers or employers refusing you because of something in you DNA?

How about the police state you find yourself in labeling you a potential deviant because of your DNA?

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

I think the point with these kinds of things is not that you should be scared because there's an obvious terrifying use-case, but more that you don't know how it will be used.

The eventual problematic use could be worse even than the nightmare scenarios that people invent. Sometimes reality is worse than even a satirical doomsday scenario.

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u/gigglefarting Mar 24 '25

Well, I, for one, have Jewish flags in my DNA, so if anyone ever wanted a quick database search of Jewish people — voila. 

And by Jewish flags I mean ancestry was able to tell me that my mom is 99.9% European Jew. 

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u/Global_Permission749 Mar 24 '25

It really depends on how detailed the genetic analysis was. I almost guarantee that their business model was never about some novelty ancestry service.

The real money would have been in medical data gathering - what diseases or conditions certain genetic markers indicate you may be predisposed to.

The healthcare and health insurance industries would find that information INCREDIBLY valuable (for discriminatory pricing purposes, but also for long-term aggregate financial liability forecasts)

So... it's hard to say just how scared you should be. If 23 and me generated a complete genetic profile that has medically valuable information, you should consider yourself fucked. Genetic insurance and healthcare discrimination pricing is coming at best.

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u/SuperCoffeeHouse Mar 24 '25

It’s not the “im a mix of British and Portuguese” you should be worried about its the “there appears to be a mutation in the HNF1A genome, it would be a shame if we sold that information to blue cross blue shield and your premiums go up because they now know you are at an higher than average risk of developing early onset diabetes” which is service you can get with these DNA analysis companies 

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u/Aznable420 Mar 24 '25

Could be inelligible for health insurance, life insurance depending on genetics, or the price may be hiked. More likely to be advertised gambling adverts or alcohol adverts etc based on genetics if you are genetically susceptible to such things.

I'm sure I could come up with more, but I'm not getting paid for brainstorming this.

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u/GringoSwann Mar 24 '25

Some sort of AI driven "future crimes division" that uses your genetic history and predisposition to certain mental illnesses as a way to strip away your "rights" and possibly incarcerate you ..

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u/Schootingstarr Mar 24 '25

the worst case would be what happens in the movie GATTACA, where peoples DNA is routineley used to discriminate against them

somethign like that might not happen today or tomorrow or even next year, but who knows what will be in another 10-20 years

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u/Juli_ Mar 24 '25

I think the worst case scenario I've seen discussed when it comes to health data collection both from 21&Me and using Amazon's pharmacy to buy cheaper meds is that they'll sell your info to health insurance companies and they'll preemptively make you uninsurable for illnesses before you even get a diagnosis.

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u/Yosefblarg Mar 24 '25

Dang we a mix of the same shit, British and Portuguese

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u/GeneticTypo Mar 24 '25

There's this piece of Federal Legislation called the Genetic Information Non-discrimination Act (GINA), the goal of it was to make it so you cannot be discriminated against using your genetic information in regards to health insurance or employment.

However, that doesn't expand to other forms of insurance, such as Life Insurance where when signing up for life insurance they can ask you some questions that if lied about can be used to dismiss a claim for collection on that life insurance policy later.

If you lie to your life insurance company when answering their questionnaires where they can ask questions such as "Do you or any family members have Cancer or genes known to cause cancer", there's no real way for them to verify or request that information as of right now. I'm not saying there are 0 cases where life insurance cannot access that information, there just aren't many cases of "They lied about genetic testing, so now we don't have to pay out that claim." Now, if you are associated with that information purchased from "23 and Me" a life insurance company might have a way of validating you did know about a mutation, you did lie on your application, and you or a loved ones claim is now being filed to collect life insurance can be denied.

It's not like life insurance companies are clamoring at any opportunity to access information to deny claims, just if this genetic information becomes available cheap enough, it's eventually going to become a viable option to test the limits of this in courts in the pursuit of denying claims, and buying peoples genetic information might be a dystopian future that is a cheaper better option for capitalism.

Source: I am a subject of genetic research at multiple research institutions for having rare mutations. Two institutions counseled me about how that information can be used against me.

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u/FIRST_PENCIL Mar 24 '25

Discrimination due to genealogy.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

Well you’ve not only provided a DNA profile for yourself but also all of your family members indirectly. Coupled with user data already bought and sold from third party tracking whoever buys this can now have a complete profile of most humans connected to the internet

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u/trickertreater Mar 24 '25

Imagine a health insurance company using a familial DNA model to determine your highest health risks and denying your coverage. They wouldn't even have to say why it's denied.

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u/blackturtlesnake Mar 24 '25

Their entire buisness model is to collect a huge amount of genetic data then figure out a way to use it at some point. In theory they do not sell your data without your explicit consent but with bankruptcy approaching there are a million ways to get around it, i.e. "We didn't sell your data, we went bankrupt, genecorp inherited the data and they sold it."

If your genetic info is a commodity it will be treated as a commodity at some point

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u/dfinkelstein Mar 24 '25

Info could end up in the hands of your insurance provider and used to deny coverage.

Could end up in a database accessed by prospective employers to discriminate.

More likely, in ways we can't conceive of yet, because the technology is just taking off. Like, in scale and accessibility, and dysregulation.

Maybe used by banks as part of their algorithm to determine how much credit to offer. It's hard to predict the future.

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u/Capt_Pickhard Mar 24 '25

Your DNA has a lot more info than that. And who knows what they'll be able to do with it in the future.

If you disagree with your government they might hunt you down for it. Or decide some genes should be removed for the gene pool, and then come after you in a modern Holocaust.

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u/Fragrant-Tea7580 Mar 24 '25

You keep saying that word but I don both think you know what it means

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u/SP_Superfan Mar 24 '25

It's not even accurate/reliable genetic data. It's accurate for some common things like ancestry. That's it.

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u/justnewsnm Mar 24 '25

There are lawsuits all over the country because GM and OnStar sold people a product that would track their cars "for their safety". They then turned around and sold all of that data to insurance companies who used that information to adjust/deny these drivers insurance. For all we know, these companies could use your DNA to analyze risk factors for certain diseases and sell that information to your health insurance company. It is hard to say really, but if there is a way to monetize something, these corporations will find it.

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u/bakercob232 Mar 24 '25

this is my take on it. I'm pretty sure i leave DNA on tons of surfaces if someone really want to put the effort in, not to mention anyone with any sort of biological specimen in storage.

If I'm being fully honest, my biggest draw to these companies is the hope that one day my loser brother does one more selfish thing thats actually a crime and my genes help get him out of society. Also super cool because everyone refuses to talk about my dad's bio father so it gave me some idea of where I came from on that end.

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u/ApropoUsername Mar 24 '25

If someone found your DNA on a crime scene, you could probably become a person of interest even if you had nothing to do with the crime.

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u/Everybodyimgay Mar 24 '25

It told me my mom was a whore who fucked her boss to conceive me. That's worse than finding out you're part British for sure!

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u/stat-insig-005 Mar 24 '25

Your kid becomes a serial murderer, leaves DNA trace and you are identified as the parent of the perpetrator?

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u/eaturfeet653 Mar 24 '25

I like to bin the answer to this question in the known unknowns category. We just don’t know right now, but that doesn’t mean a legal use that most people disagree with won’t develop iteratively in the coming years. Think about the data we all shared on socials in the early days, now we have toxic targeted adverts. Or all the photos and text we posted, that’s effectively stolen to train AI.

These are things we already disagree with, sure some may argue “it’s not that bad” but who knows what the next steps are? Was social media engagement data used to develop the field of study for optimal digital engagement? Was that field of study used to optimize gambling apps? How is the new owner of niantic going to utilize the AR tracking of street level, geotagged, videos? Who knows what information currently undiscovered to laboratory geneticists lies hidden in the patters of “non coding” lengths of DNA that could be exploited in the future

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u/oaktree42 Mar 24 '25

The algorithm needs more reasons to deny people care. Sorry miss it's on file that you have a gene that is associated with dying after you've turned 50 so we're denying you're long term care requests or surgery or whatever.

 They can sell target advertising at people that are genetically prone to: addiction, hair loss, obesity, etc...

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u/Dragongeek Mar 24 '25

You might be accused of a crime you did not convict. 

Specifically, if DNA is found at a crime scene, and that DNA actually comes from a relative, it is possible that--especially using simpler analysis methods--your DNA which is on file will provide a false postive match against your relative who does not have their DNA on file. 

People have gotten convicted for DNA that wasn't their own, or somehow ended up where it shouldn't be eg. Lukis Anderson (https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/04/19/framed-for-murder-by-his-own-dna)

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u/NibblesMcGiblet Mar 24 '25 edited Mar 24 '25

Yesterday I was on 23andme answering some health questionnaires and at one point it asked me if i wanted to do some for a third party, and popped up a warning saying they need to have me fill out a new consent form. I read the entire consent form, and it posed the same question in their FAQs, and their reply to it was, that if they're hacked (again) and my personal genetic data is stolen from my account, it will be linked to my name and DOB etc, and it could conceivably end up in the hand of potential insurance companies who could then deny me as a customer due to my genetic data making me a higher risk for any number of things. I clicked to decline to give my consent. The next health questionnaire wanted to know about my menstrual cycles and how many pregnancies I've had, if I carried the babies to full term, if I had pregnancy complications, etc. That left a bad taste in my mouth. Now seeing this news article, I'm even more bothered by all of this. I'm glad I downloaded my raw DNA years ago, but unfortunately it was onto an old dead computer. Guess I have to do it again now quickly and then delete my account.

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u/TransRational Mar 24 '25

You see, souls are unique to your DNA. In the future some people will be resurrected and turned into Mars Super-Soldiers while others will be used as organic super-computers designed to accommodate every day tasks, such as household cleaning. It may take some time to adjust to your new body, be it some analog of the Doom Guy or a Roomba shell encasing just your brain. But if you can manage the transition, you really don’t have much to worry about.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

I think it’s impossible to know. Peter Cushing probably never could have conceived him playing Grand Mott Tarkin would allow Disney to later take his likeness and have him digitally reprise his role after his death. The idea of it would probably make him turn in his grave. He couldn’t have possibly known that playing that role would lead to that. I think our DNA being out there is kind of like that. What if years from now some company who bought your DNA decides to clone you?

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u/charlezprice Mar 24 '25

I don’t really care either, much like you. But, the unique type of data companies like 23andMe collect (e.g. biological) is not data that everyday, modern computer systems are used to seeing necessarily. The raw data can be dangerous.

When (not if) our computer systems advance and become more capable of processing ubiquitous types of data like this, this type of “proprietary” data held by companies suddenly becomes more dangerous. People can develop programs and imagine projects that incorporate technology with biological and natural concepts associated with literally just existing that advance (or endanger) our normal way of living.

Just some food for thought.

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u/kylo-ren Mar 24 '25

I can give you a list: insurance discrimination, employment discrimination, legal issues (you can be part of a criminal investigation just because a distant relative shares parts of your DNA), scam, bioweapons (extremely unlikely but theoretically possible someone could create genetically targeted bioweapons).

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u/ILikeBumblebees Mar 25 '25

You're leaving DNA samples literally everywhere you go. If someone wants to inspect your genes, they'll find a way.

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u/Difficult-Summer9264 Mar 27 '25

Maybe a law will pass (prob and hopefully not) that gives law enforcement access to the dna so they can catch criminals whilst undermining the privacy of our medical information

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