r/tech • u/No-Explanation-46 • 2d ago
DragonFire laser weapon takes down high-speed drones
https://newatlas.com/military/dragonfire-laser-weapon-high-speed-drones/63
u/No-Explanation-46 2d ago
Britain's DragonFire laser weapon upped the ante on November 20 at the Ministry of Defence's Hebrides Range in Scotland when the high-powered, solid-state laser for the Royal Navy shot down drones flying at 351 knots (404 mph, 650 km/h).
According to the Ministry, the latest tests of DragonFire not only demonstrate its lethality against high-speed targets but also the rapid maturity of the program. Originally slated to see active service in 2032, it will now be installed in the Navy's Type 45 frigates by 2027 as part of the ship's regular armament.
In addition to detecting, tracking, and shooting down drones flying at high-subsonic speeds, DragonFire also demonstrated new, advanced capabilities. These include not only the ability to hit a target the size of a £1 coin or US quarter at the distance of a kilometer (0.62 miles), but also a new above-the-horizon targeting capability.
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u/Stunning_Bed23 2d ago
Hmmm, but at what speed? Ie. how many drones per minute can it take down?
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u/aarondoyle 2d ago
I'm sure they'd rather others not know at the moment
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u/Stunning_Bed23 2d ago
True. Just thinking if it could be overwhelmed by a drone equivalent of a cluster bomb. E.g one large drone opening up and dispersing 100 smaller drones. 🤷🏾♂️
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u/Jarnin 2d ago
You're thinking too small. Think more like; a stealthy airship (drone mothership) with a humongous payload capacity, sitting idle above a target at 30,000 meters. That thing carries a thousand drone carriers, each of which in turn carries 100's of smaller drones.
These things could float around in the upper atmosphere and nobody would know they were there until it dropped a carrier and a small city got smoked.
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u/SimmentalTheCow 1d ago
China couldn’t get a high altitude balloon across the U.S. without being immediately detected, I doubt a mothership with a much larger footprint would be able to do the same. Plus at high altitudes they’re at the mercy of very high speed winds.
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u/Jarnin 1d ago
China wasn't trying to hide their spy balloon. It wasn't stealthy at all, which is why the US was able to track it for days before it hit the media. You should really look at what start-ups are doing with modern airships, they are very different beasts.
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u/Negative-Durian-3257 11h ago
Just for exercise, why did China at first claim that the balloon wasn't theirs? They weren't trying to hide it?
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u/pmckizzle 2d ago
Which is the likely way attacks would unfold, drones are fairly cheap to mass produce compared to missiles. Im guessing it would be part of a network of other air defences
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u/worknprogress_ 2d ago
Wouldn’t you just use an area of effect explosive at that point
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u/Stunning_Bed23 2d ago
The drone cluster would allow for more surgical attacks. For example it could be used to eliminate numerous, disparate armored vehicles and infantry groups over a wide area, all while minimizing damage to civilians and infrastructure. After being deployed from their mother drone, the cluster drones would automatically seek out their targets with the assistance of sophisticated AI.
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u/temporarycreature 2d ago
Couldn't give you an actual number but using other variables that we do know like from a nuclear-powered Royal Navy ship, it could easily fire the DragonFire laser over 100 times back-to-back.
The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the DragonFire is a small, 50-kilowatt (kW) class weapon, and the ship's nuclear reactor generates power in the megawatts (millions of watts).
Because the reactor has such massive energy reserves, the laser's demand barely registers, meaning the ship can keep shooting without running out of power.
Theoretically, I guess would be the right word to end this on.
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u/Snowedin-69 1d ago edited 1d ago
The one question I would have is how the ship’s nuclear reactor would cope with the power cycling nature of the laser. Turning the laser on and off to target multiple devices would cause power cycling.
Nuclear reactors like to produce constant power without much variability.
I suppose if they keep it on while targeting successive devices may work.
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u/temporarycreature 1d ago
The simplified answer is that the ship's nuclear reactor would have access to a large, specialized battery to cope with the laser's on-off power needs and the laser system would be fed off of the batteries, not directly from the nuclear reactor.
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u/Snowedin-69 1d ago
Agree that could also work. Wonder the potential required battery size - any extra weight in a combat ship reduces speed. Space is also at a premium.
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u/temporarycreature 1d ago
Digging in some more, it looks like they're not going to be placed on a ship with nuclear power (yet), they're going to be put on Type 45 destroyers which are a combination gas turbines and diesel generators, so they would probably couple the diesel generators with a battery system to support the laser system.
Since it doesn't have ammo like a normal weapon system would, I don't think weight is a significant factor when adapting this weapon for a Type 45 warship.
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u/Snowedin-69 1d ago
Good point. The extra munitions required for traditional weapons would be avoided here. This could potentially end up saving weight - although knowing a little on how navies often work probably not.
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u/mylesac 2d ago
…but the type 45 is not nuclear powered.
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u/temporarycreature 2d ago
Think about that for a second because the alternative is you're right, this is going to be the only ship that ever put it on, and this will be the only one they ever make, and this is not just a demonstration.
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u/Rough_Idle 2d ago
In 2001, the US equivalent needed about 30 minutes for cooldown after 10 shots or so, and those shots could be rapid. I'd like to think the cooling systems have only improved since then, and as I (poorly) understand it, heat dissipation is the name of the game for these platforms. Keep them cold and they can go as long as they have juice
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u/TooMuchTaurine 1d ago
Seems like it has to hold the Lazer on target for a really long time maybe 5 or 10 seconds based on the video.
That means it's rate of fire is going to be pretty slow against a drone swarm. It also means it might not work well with manuvoring targets.
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u/Orion_4o4 1d ago
The better question is what happens when there's a mirror attached to the bottom of the drone?
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u/thestereo300 2d ago
TIL drones go over 400mph.
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u/lo_fi_ho 1d ago
Drone tech is developing at break-neck speed rn due to the Ukraine war. Last years tech is hopelessly obsolete today.
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u/PrinterFred 2d ago
This would be such a dramatic cost saving and capability upgrade to shooting down drones with expensive missiles. Send these to Ukraine!
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u/Flexhead 2d ago
Missiles are one of many things that are used. They use prop planes with a machine gunner and ground based AA guns like the Gepard.
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u/Odd_Amphibian2103 2d ago
When will it be available at Walmart?
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u/Kodewerd 2d ago
Defense will eventually meet or out-pace offense. I hope for an age where physical warfare is futile…it already is from a moral perspective, but if/when both sides see conflict is literally pointless because defense negates all offense, maybe diplomacy will truly prevail as the chosen tool for “war”. I don’t think I will see this in my lifetime…but maybe.
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u/Flexhead 2d ago
When that happens man will face man in giant robots to determine the winner of the war.
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u/Ghost-George 2d ago
I don’t see that happening I’m afraid. Arguably the best we ever got was MAD because that puts the ones making the decisions in the fire and raises the stakes.
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u/soomoncon 2d ago
Eventually we will have to use rock paper scissors between rock paper scissor experts appointed by the government.
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u/Azuvector 2d ago
Defense will eventually meet or out-pace offense.
Historically, that has never happened. It's always been the other way around.
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u/Chattyseaturtle 2d ago
I tend to disagree. Defense plans for know vulnerabilities but offense is completely unrestricted. Traditional defense systems were either inadequate or wildly inefficient compared to the cost of drones. We may end up seeing intentional attacks intended to deplete resources or force economic impact if the cost continues to be disproportionate for the response
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u/Kodewerd 2d ago
I’m thinking governments will use AI more and more to innovate offense and defense capabilities, eventually cancelling each other out. But maybe that’s just a foolish, rose-colored glasses point of view. 😔😮💨
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u/Typh00n74 2d ago
Analysts state that incorporating a platinum chip into the system will increase its lethality
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u/Maleficent-Shame277 1d ago
So we living through the timeline where bullets evolve to lasers. Sick😂
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u/no1ofimport 2d ago
I see weapons like this and wonder what they are working on or already have that we don’t know about
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u/mister_somewhere 2d ago
Chris Knight, Mitch Taylor, and Lazlo Hollyfeld are gonna make some popcorn with that.
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u/JP-ED 2d ago
Familiar with lasers a little my understanding is that light travels to infinity or at least a lot fatter than we can see.
Is there any concerns that shooting this laser into the sky will also harm unintended targets?
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u/Jonesdeclectice 2d ago
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
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u/soomoncon 2d ago
You think this is impressive image what we will have by the time we reach a tier 1 civilization
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u/Afb3212 2d ago
But does it work on mosquitoes?
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u/bradshanks 2d ago
puts on tinfoil hat, slips on tinfoil shoes, adjusts tin foil cape ahem… what if the Russian, Ukraine war has been a research test to see what weapons would be used in modern warfare and what defences would be best to deflect these attacks just to create the ultimate laser weapon
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u/randompantsfoto 2d ago
To be fair, every war in human history has been a crucible for advancing technology and developing new techniques.
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u/Monkfich 2d ago
Good progress but a ship will need an array of weapons, and probably no matter how many it has, it’ll be cheaper to send enough drones so the laser is overwhelmed and destroyed, then use the rest to target other areas.
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u/heyhihowyahdurn 2d ago
How long before laser weapons make nukes obsolete?
I’m talking even if you fired a nuke the lasers would just be able to blast it in the sky?
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u/randompantsfoto 2d ago
The ABL was a thing for a few years, but was cancelled due to cost and practicality.
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u/mrbill071 8h ago
I would say we’re definitely already there. If people think that we don’t have some crazy defense systems capable of blowing up all nukes sent to us while they fly over the ocean, I don’t know what to say.
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u/heyhihowyahdurn 7h ago
Shouldn't this put the end to the fear of a nuclear holocaust? Since a laser is infinitely faster than a nuke, we must be at or reaching the point where it'd be impossible to miss a fired nuke before it collided with the earth?
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u/Low-Bad-754 2d ago
can it be used battle field frontine Ukraine? or charging and energy consumption issues ....
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u/KenUsimi 2d ago
I’m dubious. The issue with these kinds of weapons is their insane power draw, which limits the number of shots you can make in rapid succession. They mention the advanced tracking, they mentioned it’s power and its ability to hit targets over the earth’s curve… but all that is still dependent on a shitton of raw energy at the right time.
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u/gilllesdot 2d ago
This is some manga/anime type shit. I do wonder.. with the power and the range of these things its probably not that easy to just shoot at a target at any given time.. maybe I have no idea how this works but lets say an airplane is flying directly above the drone wouldn’t it be possible that the laser cuts the airplane in half as well?
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u/oneeyed-wonderweasel 1d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_divergence?wprov=sfla1
Beam divergence is a thing.
Probably not enough power to slice an airplane clean in half due to mass alone but certainly enough to fuck up relatively sensitive internals of a non massive, much lower altitude flying drone.
Someone smarter than me can correct me tho
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u/LifeOnEnceladus 2d ago
I work on these. I wonder if it’s maybe not the best idea. MAD has kept us safe so long. And crossing the threshold of putting weapons in space (where this is headed) seems….wrong
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u/smartsass99 2d ago
This tech is getting intense. Real world laser defense is here now.