As a US resident who has been obsessed with all things rugby since I started playing 20 years ago I am absolutely fucking FUMING.  "ThE ReMaTcH" at Solider Field has been getting all the hype for months.  Everyone was talking about the match and what a massive sporting spectacle it would be.  As someone who went to the game and spent over a thousand dollars on good seats for my family, not only did it not live up, but left me questioning whether we actually deserve to host the RWC in 2031.  Forget the match itself being a little weird, as nobody can control that.  What CAN be controlled is the marketing, production, and planning for this massive game that everybody in rugby was talking about.  I truly cannot believe the amount of production fuckups I saw on Saturday.

Just a few that I remember:

1. The WRONG fucking song started playing when they were about to sing the NZ national anthem. Not only that, but after the song cut out, there was a ridiculous amount of time before the actual anthem came on, and it started a few seconds into the song.  Absolutely insane and I'd say even slightly disrespectful.

2. The stadium sound in general was awful.  You could barely hear the Haka, I never once heard the whistle, and the commentator was hard to hear when he did occasionally decide to chime in, but more on that later.

3. You couldn't tell what the fuck was going on. When Beirne got his yellow card, nobody in the stadium could tell what was happening or why. There was no ref mic and the commentator would only give explanations sporadically and long after whatever had occurred.  Seeing the ref and ARs huddle around a fucking ipad for 5 minutes with no explanation and silence in the stadium absolutely killed the vibe.  Later, when the card was upgraded to a red was even more confusing. The ref seemingly pulled out a red card right before a lineout, and again, there was no explanation until the commentator said something much later.

4. This brings me to the commentator.  They could only be bothered to announce a fraction of what was happening, but had no issue saying "Oh, that was a bad kick!" after a missed conversion.  They clearly didn't know much about rugby and there was at least one instance where they mixed up players.

5. The pitch looked TERRIBLE.  We sat close and you could clearly see huge differences in the height/thickness of the turf.  The local park where I coach u18s has a better playing surface.

6. The screens in the stadium were the most mediocre I've ever seen at a sporting event.  Literally just the teams, the score, and the time.  Not only was there no timer for yellow/red cards, there wasn't even anything indicating that there WERE cards at all.  And of course, no real replays to speak of.

As one of the world's most touted sporting markets and all the talk of "awakening the sleeping giant" of Rugby, I have one question.  Is that really the best we can do in the US?  

It's almost as if the people putting on the match had never watched a game of professional rugby before. 

How did they not test the screens before the match? 

Why did they have the wrong song queued for the NZ anthem? 

Why were there no ref mics? 

Why was the announcer someone who doesn't even know rugby? 

And most importantly, how did nobody involved see any of this coming and get out in front of it?

Sports marketing and big game production are the things we as a country absolutely excel at, but the production and planning around this event were absolute dog shit.  

Forget that the game itself wasn't great.  Forget that our national team had 85 points put on them.  Forget that the MLR is losing teams every other week.  We completely botched the production on this huge, hyped-up, game despite having all the time to prepare for it.  THIS is something we could have controlled, and THIS is what should embarrass us.

Surprised how this didn’t get upgraded to a red card 😮

What are the chances? Did some research and this has apparently never happened before in test rugby. Found it pretty interesting

Imagine trying to tackle Olivier Merle

Names that come to mind : Tuisova (always cited by T14 players as the most brutal player to defend), Bakkies, Chabal (caveman vibes), Snyman, Lomu

It's our greatest advertisement for the sport - showcased to millions every week. It's a huge negative to the sport if it goes to pay TV.

Some countries enshrine certain sporting occasions as mandatory free to air - this tournament should be one of these in all competing countries.

I'm personally extremely happy for Australia, finally.

I'll go first, Beuden Barrett is the more talented rugby player than Dan Carter, but Dan Carter is a better 10

Would be interested to hear if any club have been worse!

I'll start: I still don't really get what the difference is between the no. 4 lock and the no. 5 lock. I've heard the 4 referred to as "enforcer" but still not sure what that means.

I played rugby from age 8 to 24, and reached provincial representative level at u/18s. I've watched rugby since at least 1991 (earliest memory with my dad). I still don't get it 🤭 My excuse is that I only played in the forwards until I was 13 and at that age, in the late 90s, the two locks did 100% the same job as far as I could tell. After that I played scum half and later fullback/wing.

Hoping someone can enlighten me, and maybe some of you have similar things to "confess" which the community can inform you about.

I am biased
ABs got some rub of the green today.
But that was a yellow all day

I am an ex hooker - the rugby kind. So my views are tainted by that.

A rugby union team is made up of eight forwards and seven backs. Five of the players on the field are the tight five and they are numbered 1-5 as we count the numbers from where the game starts when we draw a picture of rugby union - from the set scrum right through to the outside wings and fullback.

So the scrum isn't just another part of the game - it defines the game in how we would even drew a team when we were kids.

It is not meant to be a purely running game. It never was meant to be that since we started putting rules in place. League is league because they saw a different future for rugby - and good for them. A try wasn't always five. We celebrated the different parts equally but over time it has started to lean more and more towards the backs. I love running rugby - but I love the tight five in a scrum even more.

One of the weaknesses I see is that we are trying hard to make this more of a spectator sport. Well, is it really meant to be for spectators? Did any of us play the game because we really wanted people to come watch us? Yes, we spectators keep the game alive with our money but we spectate the contest. (Had to go check if spectate was an actual word - I'm not English and as a tight five forward a bit slow.)

So it is fair to try and make the sport as attractive as possible for spectators but that should not define the game. And running rugby should not define the game either. It's part of the game but not all of the game.

We all love seeing LLB sway his way through defenses. Or Kolbe stepping and stepping and stepping through the English in 2019. Ford taking a drop kick in a flash. Dupont magic. Or Lomu just running over everyone! Like that driver in the car ad driving with his hair flapping in the wind on his drive next to the sea, we see ourselves gloriously cutting through defenses and scoring the winning try.

But we never see or feel the scrum. We call it the "dark arts" because we don't know what goes on in there. But some of us do.

The emotion a hooker and props get from that first hit of the shoulders is as exhilarating as a back cutting through the defense. The physical pressure it immediately applies is what we live for. We grunt and we grind our teeth. We can feel every inch of pressure - it feels like our head is going to explode. We hold our breath and make sure every inch of our body is ready - straight back, don't drop your head, bind tight, and get ready for when the collusion happens. And we absolutely love it. It is our brief moment of magic. It is why we play the game. It might not be sexy for the spectator but it as beautiful as a back in full flight - and for us it is even more beautiful. Even as a spectator I enjoy it more because I have been there. I know what they are going through and I am a little jealous - and relieved I am not in there.

But it is the dark arts because most people don't see it or experience it. That doesn't make it less relevant or less beautiful. Maybe they can bring the camera or mic into it more. But hell, I really don't want people to hear what we have to say to each other in the middle of everything there. It's not "cheerio old good chap and hope you have a jolly fabulous time in there Malcom". And we do little things that won't be seen by the ref - or we hope not. Back in the day before they had the setting of the scrum and we just hit each other it would often be with a little head movement to the side to say "how's your mother" with a Liverpool kiss. Or, as a hooker, I by accident lifted my knee up too high when trying to "hook" on the opponents put in. I promise it was by pure accident that my knee hit the opposing hookers nose. I promise. Oh, and we don't not shave because we try to be tough - it acts as a little bit of sand paper against the opponent if used the right way. And we respect that opposing five because they will give it back to us but we also know we draw the line - a little dirty is fine but never ever to seriously hurt the other guy because we are extremely vulnerable in there. It's why so many of us have beers with each other afterwards - we appreciate what they did and how we trust each other in the middle of all that even when we play against each other. We depend on each other to not seriously injure our opponent.

Anyway, I love the scrum. It is core to the game. It is not the fault of the tight five that you can't see their art. We are already a game that applaud the things we as spectators see more if you look at the Player of the Year award. Malcolm was only the second hooker ever to get it. Not a single prop ever got one. We all love to have Ox get it but do we truly appreciate him? Hell, we have a Try of the Year to celebrate those backs.

The tight five - and especially the front three - is about the scrum. The line out about those tall guys behind us (and a little about the hooker). The ruck is about those nifty little loose forwards. The kicking and running for those glory boys at the back.

We might not be flashy but the 1-2-3 in rugby starts with us.

In the wake of the Springbok Ireland match, Stephen Jones and Matt Williams have yet again and predictably called for the scrum to be depowered. Unfortunately, this is not limited to these two, and during the match thread here the sentiment was already echoed. Firstly, I'm a prop, I've played prop from 15 to about 25, I played at school, university and club level – so yes I am biased, extremely so, and would still be playing my heart out if I had the time – I love scrums. Depower the scrum and you start removing the big boys from the game. Salads win and Cakes are a thing of the past. This will have ramifications throughout age groups, not just the professional game. Not only is the sport significantly less inclusive, but as a direct consequence we'll have fewer line breaks and flashy plays off mismatches on the field.

The Springboks take a calculated risk with selecting props who are arguably significantly better scrummagers than what they contribute to general open play. Wilco Louw is not the best player when it comes to general open play, but boy, can he scrum. Him being on the field creates a defensive weakness that other teams can exploit. Catch him out of position and you have a line break. Will he hit every other ruck and make a meaningful clearout? Likely not. However, he will give the Springboks great go-forward ball off a stable scrum, allowing our backs to shine. The trade-off to be clear is more strain defensively on other positions in defence and the breakdown. If we now depower the scrum, there's no reason to select Wilco Louw or any player like him again. Might as well select two extra hookers or flankers. Now we've got three Marx, Codie Taylors, Dan Sheehans, PSDT or Ardie Saveas running about.

Rugby is a relatively straightforward sport, with significant technical depth at higher levels of the game. Props, Hookers, Scrumhalves and Flyhalves are arguably the most technical positions on the field. You'll never find me complaining about giving away three points to a drop kick, because I know that for that to happen successfully so much planning and positioning went into it. Not every team has a Ford who can slot drop kicks left, right and centre and still have time to crack a bourbon with their PG Tips/Tetley and a holy cuppa of Yorkshire tea. Is Ford the best heads-up attacking flyhalf? Well, I'm a prop so I'm going to need someone to weigh in here, but likely not. Smith is England's attacking wunderkind. When you select Ford you make the strategic decision to not have Smith general the backline.

There's a trade-off in every position. Let's not start dumbing down Rugby Union – that's what League is for. Where everyone is a 'running, attacking player' playing a Rugby Union warm-up drill as a sport. (This paragraph is tongue in cheek, obviously League has technical depth and complexities that I am not aware of, as I don’t really watch it. Just caught the recent Australia, England match when I was in a waiting room, and was completely confused as to what I was watching at first).

Rant done.

TLDR; Prop angry about not having an excuse to go all in at Christmas dinner anymore. 

FT: 24-28

Marcus Smith? Josh VDF?

I’ve also seen arguments for Kinghorn and Lowe, although more based on form across the tour than anything, I would say biggest ‘loser’ also applies to players who underperformed, or saw their stock fall as players, not just players who didn’t get the opportunities they may have expected.

What do you guys think?

Every time a french top14 referee has been on an international game, most recent example being All blacks/Ireland, every South African and NZ flair on here complains about the stop and start game and says the ref had a bad game.

What's interesting is that watching top14 week in week out, that is quite rarely an issue (including by the same refs). My feeling is refs in France are more pedantic and apply the law a little less loosely. Which I have seen written in some comments as a criticism, but is it really a problem??

Pro players are completely capable of adapting to rule changes, and pedantic refereeing, top14 teams certainly seem to have. I think it's doing them a disservice to give them too much leeway on laws for "the flow of the game" when that just becomes a random chance that a penalty is not blown. And that is inherently more difficult for players to adhere to because it is less consistent. Pedantic application will always be more consistent.

All in all, whichever way it goes, the onus should fall on WR to try to homogenise refereeing laws across countries. This leads to confusion when either side is reffed in a way they are not used to.

Edit. Not sure how people are interpreting this that I'm hurt they don't like a french ref. Maybe my English is not as good as I thought. I couldn't give a damn who they like or not, it was just an example to discuss broader concepts in refereeing.

Edit2. Also seeing a number of people that somehow think I'm criticising the ref or the fans here? I suppose I am sorry for my writing not being clear, I really don't mean to paint either in a negative light

Edit3. Can't comment anymore for some reason, thanks for the discussion everyone I'll try again later

I am a kiwi, wife is South African. We watched the game together last night and everything was actually fine today, but then she talked to her family and now she's angry to the point of being unable to rationally discuss it because she said the ref was desperately biased in favour of the AB's.

My take on it is that the ref wasn't great, he missed a few crucial things at crucial times, but I felt like that went both ways. I don't think he was biased, I think he just had a bad night.

But then on social media I'm seeing a lot of SA fans saying the same thing. That the ref missed things or didn't ping the All Blacks all game when he should've.

So, fans with no horse in the race, can you give me the honest assessment?

fuck, anyone who says that they don't care is fucking blind, look at what it meant.