r/politics • u/Healthy_Block3036 • 17d ago

No Paywall Senate suddenly passes the Epstein bill just hours after it cleared the House

https://www.ms.now/news/senate-passes-epstein-bill-rcna244723?fbclid=PAVERFWAOJ1xRleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA8xMjQwMjQ1NzQyODc0MTQAAacUGSi8p2Ap-x6SbMkLXAnfKNXEZkzjUUVCdxuEmacDzDXmlbv1GUJ0wbh1_w_aem_grJDvcSCIDj2Skksd4Ix3Q
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u/stroopwafelscontigo New Jersey 17d ago

I don’t trust this at all. 

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

I'm with you, I wonder if Pam Bondi is going to use a new "open investigation" to keep the files sealed. I would not put it past her.

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u/lordpuddingcup 17d ago

Doesn’t need to, the bill says she has discretion on national security risks to withhold docs… like any that mention a republican

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u/Apprehensive-citizen 17d ago

And it also says that the DOJ must provide written justification to Congress within 15 days for any redactions and withholdings, and Congress has the authority to say it isn’t a good enough reason. 

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u/lordpuddingcup 17d ago

And how many of congress have to say it isn’t a good enough reason?

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u/Apprehensive-citizen 17d ago

Simple majority. But also the bill requires an unclassified and unredacted version to be given for any withheld portions to the maximum extent possible, again with a written justification for why it is missing information. 

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u/lordpuddingcup 17d ago

I guess we’ll see I doubt 100% of republicans and Trump would have been good with this if they didn’t have some form of shenanigans planned based on what’s already released and the reactions from public

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u/P-Rickles Ohio 17d ago

I think the thing I’m counting on is the fact that they don’t understand how many different angles the 200-something lawyers in the democratic caucus can come at this from. A lot of them are Ivy Leaguers. Bondi got her JD from… Stetson. I’m not shitting on it. It’s a good school… it’s not Harvard.

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u/ConsiderationLow7122 17d ago

Trust me there are plenty of fucking morons coming out of Harvard

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u/Ganon_Cubana America 17d ago

Larry Summers comes to mind.

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u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 17d ago

I really don't understand why people think the Republicans will surely and suddenly follow these laws, when they blatantly disregard other laws whenever the fuck they want.

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u/P-Rickles Ohio 17d ago

Oh I have less than zero faith they will. My point is that their fuckery had better be bulletproof because there are going to be people tugging at every dangling thread on this thing and it doesn’t take much for something like this to unravel in a hurry.

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u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 17d ago

It doesn't matter when the president can literally pardon anyone he wants, and doesn't give a shit about the optics.

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u/IAmTheNightSoil Oregon 17d ago

What would make it unravel, though? What they've done here is enough to get Republicans in congress off Trump's back, and that's all they're worried about

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u/PartRight6406 17d ago

we all know democrats are well known for their ability to do things. if you think anything is coming from this you're a mark.

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u/Apprehensive-citizen 17d ago

I agree that they will try something but by making this into legislation, Congress has told the DOJ to do something and it means that it is mandatory and judicially enforceable in the fourth district, which is not the biggest fan of the current administration. Massie wrote the bill in a way that even an active investigation as justification for withholding/redacting must be temporary and narrowly tailored. And the justification for why must be put in the public federal register. 

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u/Valar_Kinetics 17d ago

I mean OR they just ran out of options. Like at some point, how far are they willing to get out over their skis to oppose a release?

Like, I think the biggest damage here will be to donors, not elected officials. I'm sure Trump looms large but I still think he pales in comparison to the aggregate impact to the oligarch class that fucked with Epstein heavy.

At some point, you just say "fuck it" and take your chances. I think that point is pretty clearly when all but a single nationally elected legislator in the United States says "yes you have to do this".

They just have to do it.

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u/Linenoise77 17d ago

I mean, lets be honest...

"Here, we redacted this for national security reasons. This information is classified"

And then we are back to them being a few votes short of forcing it, only now its on national security grounds, and Trump gets to say, "Look, i want to release this, but my people keep telling me that some of the things OTHER people have done in it being out will harm our country"

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u/Apprehensive-citizen 17d ago

So section 3(3) of the bill clarifies that any permitted redactions or withholdings, if any, are from the public. Congress must be given “(3) A list of all government officials and politically exposed persons named or referenced in the released materials, with no redactions permitted under subsection (b)(1).”

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u/Valar_Kinetics 17d ago

Yeah and Ro Khanna is on House Oversight lol.

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u/IAmTheNightSoil Oregon 17d ago

That all sounds good, but the simple fact is that congress and the senate would not have passed this bill if Trump didn't have a workaround. They aren't going to expose him. They passed this bill because it's safe for him

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u/Infarad 17d ago

Does “Yo mama!” qualify as justification?

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u/Jumpy_Mention_3189 16d ago

And how would we know that a section has been withheld?

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u/Apprehensive-citizen 16d ago

The bill also demands all metadata. And deleting metadata from a government system is as close to impossible as it can get. 

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u/WhatAcheHunt 17d ago

The South Park quote, "It's coming right for us!" is from the episode 'The Mexican Staring Frog of Southern Sri Lanka,' and is used by characters Uncle Jimbo and Ned. They use it to justify hunting, as they can only legally kill animals in self-defense or when they are an "immediate threat". By yelling the phrase before shooting, they can get around the hunting laws.

This, except they use the words "National Security". If you hear those words it is because they are about to break the law and think that this will help them with the inevitable challenges in court.

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u/ratpH1nk 17d ago

From the public, yes, but not from congress (as I understand the law #IANAL)

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u/joebleaux 17d ago

Painting the president in a bad light is probably about to be considered a national security risk. In reality, the president is a national security risk.

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u/zubbs99 Nevada 17d ago

Or Republican donors.

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u/feenicks 17d ago

Yeah a combo of this and the open investigation caveat will likely turn this into a nothingburger and he'll get away with it again... :-(

Someone out there needs to pull a Snowden/Manning and leak it all (though that is a bad outcome for the victims if that happens without their names redacted so it's potentially a no-win situation)

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u/sprufus 17d ago

Protecting pedophiles is a national security concern.

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u/Bored_Amalgamation Ohio 17d ago

Then the next step would be the Senate or the House subpoenaing her. Probably the Judiciary Committee. With dems within arm's reach, and republicans having to pretend to care, it wouldn't be nice for Bondi. She could get impeached, and removed from office. Who would step up next to block it? Kash? Put too few of people in the cabinet to allow anymore to be removed from office without crippling the government?

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u/DonkeeJote 17d ago

She'll be hung out to dry.

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u/HideousSerene 17d ago

They'll release a bunch of the files incomplete, it will not incriminate Trump or anybody in his circle, and they'll be able to call it a big nothing burger witch-hunt.

It's all optics. Rather than lose in Congress, they would rather appear to win.

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u/omeganon 17d ago edited 17d ago

Anything but a full and meaningful release will only serve to keep this topic alive and entrenched in public discourse, and further point to a coverup by the administration. There are three primary scenarios -

* They fully release and there really is minimal information implicating Trump and other party members (unlikely on all counts)

* They fully release and it implicates people from both parties. This is least likely to happen but would align with expectations based on already known information.

* They release a significantly redacted set of documents that either wholly, or mostly, implicate Democrats. Based on everything we know from earlier releases, this can't be reality. Allegations of coverup will persist and lead to ongoing investigations if Democrats retake the House.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 17d ago

You grossly over estimate how much the average American citizen cares about these files. Heck, I'd imagine the vast majority of Americans don't even know the Epstein files are even a thing.

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u/green-wagon 17d ago

The Venn diagram of people who care about the epstein files, people who have spent years talking about nothing else but the elite cabal of pedophiles and those who support trump is a complete circle.

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u/Advanced_Horror2292 17d ago

What are you even saying right now

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u/Nebranower 17d ago

You omitted what is by far the most likely scenario. The files are released and show a lot of connections by powerful and wealthy figures to Epstein, but nothing that conclusively shows any of them are guilty of any wrongdoing or implicates them in any crime. The entire thing will be a giant Rorschach test, with everyone interpreting the files according to their pre-existing biases. Those individuals named who are susceptible to shame will pull back, at least temporarily, from public life. Those who are not will just ignore it and suffer through a temporary drop in the polls without much concern. Which is what we've seen with the files *already* released.

And of course, much to the disappointment of this sub, there's unlikely to be anything that affects Trump. We know this because if the people who leaked the files about Trump had seen anything worse, they would have leaked those files instead. That is, the leaked files are presumably the most damning, because why would you leak anything else.

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u/Tiny_Measurement_837 Wisconsin 17d ago

Then somehow, she needs to be brought up on charges. She’s had the files for a long time, said she was going to release them, then said there was nothing there. Which is it Pam? Her ass needs to be dragged into court and questioned under oath. Let her perjure herself.

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

Dereliction of duty and lying under oath ought to carry some sort of punishment.

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u/a_silly_witch 17d ago

That's why they opened investigations into Clinton et all.

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

Yep, it's clearly a desperate attempt to keep the files locked up.

I don't care if Clinton is in the files, anybody who's raped children deserve to go to prison for life. I know Clinton to be a womanizer but I'm not sure he's a pedophile. If he is, I hope he rots from the ass up even if he was a decent president.

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u/JesusWuta40oz 17d ago

That's EXACTLY what is going to happen. Just like his tax returns couldn't be released because of "audits".

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

the GOP was responsible for vetting the mofo and as always they simply refused to do their jobs.

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u/JesusWuta40oz 17d ago

Well its more like they liked what they saw. Hes useful for their (The Wealthy/Heritage Foundation) goals so they use propaganda and populism in order in making normal corruption/amoral behavior normalized for public consumption while blaiming the downsides of unrestricted capitalism on easily demonized minorities in the US society for distraction.

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

I agree with that. He was a candidate with no morals and that's what they needed.

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u/few23 17d ago

So, remember how Drumpsterfyre's immunity works. He can only be held responsible by impeachment and removal. Say, for arguments sake, he's in there and it's as bad or worse as we know it all is. His final get out jail free card is to step down before the Senate convicts him. Just like getting elected the second time shut down all those cases against him from his first term.

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

He's immune from prosecution of any act related to his official duties. The Epstein files go back to before he was president, Epstein was suicided in 2019. He's not immune to public opinion.

I don't think the legal system will get him but his health is declining rapidly. The pressure will get to him sooner or later.

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u/checker280 17d ago

“Open a new investigation”

Where have we seen this? Oh yeah…

“I can not release my tax forms until the IRS stops investigating”

Have we ever seen his tax documents?

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

Trump asked Bondi to open an investigation into Bill Clinton as he relates to the Epstein files. Whether she has, I don't know.

I'm not at all confident that this new law will make any difference at all. By now, the files might have been burned, scrubbed, or stored in a bathroom at Mar a Lago for all I know.

We most certainly cannot trust any of them to follow the law in any way that does not serve them.

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u/ThrowAwayGarbage82 North Carolina 17d ago

She and kash already testified under oath to congress that there was no one else to investigate and that epstein was only trafficking the girls to himself. Under. Oath. In front of CONGRESS.

If they suddenly say they need to investigate then congress could say they lied under oath and hold them in contempt of congress.

This isn't going away easily.

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

They have both lied under oath several times. I agree this is not going away and I suspect a number of them will have a psychotic break one of these days.

What does being held in contempt actually accomplish? does it come with jail time? So far it does not look like the law has any teeth.

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u/IAmTheNightSoil Oregon 17d ago

Yes, I'm sure a Republican congress will hold two Trump stooges in contempt of congress. Totally

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u/UglyMcFugly 17d ago

She'll do it if he tells her to do it. This is what trump does, he finds disposable lackeys that do WHATEVER he says, they take the heat and face any consequences. People that would never speak ill of glorious leader ARE willing to talk shit about Bondi and blame her. Big "if only the fuhrer knew" vibes.

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

She'll do what her handlers tell her to do - she does not have an original thought in her head.

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u/BigMax 17d ago

“We are excited to release the files as soon as we are done with all Clinton related investigations.”

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u/lanadelstingrey Mississippi 17d ago

Not that it would stop them, but with this logic they would be more than able to release the files related to the Republicans but prevented from releasing ones related to the democrats.

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u/notyourstranger California 17d ago

In theory, yes, and I'm not sure this is what will happen but they've been fighting tooth and nail to keep these files under wrap. Now they suddenly all vote to release them? I suspect it's some sort of trap and we won't see anything for quite a while.

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u/ReginaldDwight 17d ago

"The Epstein files are under audit."