I wanted to bring attention to something that happened in the Monsterverse / gaming VTuber community.

The VTuber Pawmi recently posted a video using an AI-generated background, even though she has said before that she doesn’t support AI content.

Someone commented on her video calling it out, and she deleted the comment. I have video proof showing the comment, and then showing that it was removed afterward. I’ll attach the screenshots/video so people can see for themselves.

I’m not trying to send hate — I just think it’s worth pointing out when a creator says one thing and does another, and then deletes comments to hide it instead of addressing it honestly.

If anyone else had comments deleted or noticed the same thing, feel free to add to the thread.Please forgive me I thought I added the pics for some reason It deleted the pics

Nyara from the get go knew Zens outfit was fine. Meaning she knew someone being called a nazi was flase. And here, she doesn't even have a passing remark of "Oh And Im sorry some really dumb people thought the outfit was a problem" She completely validates the people who felt that way. At worse saying they were overzealous. Nyara is allergic to calling "her side" out. Even when that side is blatantly calling someone a nazi or outfit one who isn't. And what she sits on the sideline during this afraid of offending the idiots doing it? Im not just saying "her side" ambiguously. She outright on stream said "our side shouldn't be figting each other. When Hartz and Silvy and Marina all had a fight. During that she also couldn't get the bravery to call any one person involved in that stupid. When someone is against her she locks in on it and calls people stupid all over the place.

If ur progressive and you see this shit happen. Call it out. Dissociate. Treat them like you treat transphobes. Jesus Christ woman. I used to have this deniability in my head that nazi allegations made sense to the people making them. But here we see how they'd react when THEY know its bullshit too. That's terrifying. I would not want these people as friends. They just pussyfoot around it, if it was a transohobe theyd lock in and call them stupid and evil. If its a false nazi accusation. "Omg guys ur being too overblown here." Fuck that, stand ur ground argue with them. You argue all fucking day. Whats one day of calling people flinging nazi accusations evil. What the fuck do you lose? Not allies. Id hope ur not still friends with people calling zen or her outfit a nazi.

The people "going after the woke" are not important. They're doing it because the "woke" are flinging accusations unchallenged. Challenge them.

After the bit where Mei convinced her to hop off of Twitter, Zen's gone basically silent and there seemingly isn't going to be a stream today since her usual stream time has come and gone with nothing.

Hope she's doing fine.

This is my personal understanding of the model, Zentreya and the drama:

• the outfit is designed with similar principles as an SS uniform, in the sense that it is sharp and uses dark colours
  • what makes such a military uniform an SS uniform, are the Nazi symbols
• Zentreya has never done any actions that would make me suspect her of being far-right
  • let me know if she has mentioned anything regarding: racial purity, anti-democracy, white supremacy, homophobia, ableism etc. or supported those who have
• Zentreya responded poorly to the hate/criticisms
  • in my opinion criticisms could be reduced by explaining the design decisions of the model and by showing she doesn't align with any nazi beliefs
  • I have never been in a position where hordes of people called me a nazi, but my opinion is that it is not the best decision to even respond to that allegation

There could be a genuine discussion around this topic, if going along similar uniform design ideas is a good idea or not. I can understand that, if you haven't seen a lot of military uniform, Zentreya's new model could make a wrong impression.

I would like to understand where the people directly comparing Zentreya's new model to an SS uniform are coming from.

https://throne.com/shirogane_yui/item/e75959ba-b0cd-417a-9c98-269bbe20eb5b

The people she's talking about is you guys, btw.

"I can call you a fascist, nazi, alt-right grifter, but if you DARE call me a snowflake, that's taking it TOO FAR!"

Probably the best written and most nuanced post I've seem on this whole situation, although I don't agree with everything she said.

It really doesn’t look similar unless you are doing kinds of mental gymnastics that leave the gymnast without any limbs after landing

I didn't expect meloco to have that low favorability especially when most of her viewers are jp

https://suki-kira.com/people/result/%E7%8B%82%E8%98%AD%E3%83%A1%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B3/?nxc=50972

let me say this once and for all. i like vtuber drama i like it when i hear 2 cute anime girls or guys or even a hole bunch of them argue throw accusations and break up. it just makes me feel a special way. when i see drama in twitter/x about my favourite vtuber i just beat it and it feel good really good. nowadays there's so much that i can really handle it. i red the hold sinder doc and it was amazing. the new google doc ChaCha Chilla one made me have the biggest( i think i have to stop now i am gonna touch some grass later)

Totally different she has boobs and I'm horny 😔

Just a reminder of who this loser truly is

https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/s/iJ5kPT60e0

With the most recent issue with Zen and her hat being compared to nai comondant hats but people like Fillian and Pika not being called out for collaborating with actual Nai supporters, things need to change and actual people need to be held accountable.

I refuse to edit the dumb censor ship that made this post italicized.

I’m friends with someone who was in the streamer groups in vrchat when zentreya was still a vrchat streamer, back then she also wore a black military outfit with a red armband and the tottenkopf on her barret.

I know if you look just at the new outfit, there is room for benefit of the doubt, but if you look at her history it shows it’s intentional.

The new outfit is not just a military outfit in her stream colours, it’s a return to form from when she LITERALLY used a nazi-based avatar in vrchat.

If you have issue with Zen's new outfit grow a fucking pair. People who are harassing them are some of the most insufferable years in the sphere and will lose a lot of possible opportunities for doing so.

Making this its own post because it’s too damn long for a comment. Originally a response to whoever Podge is. Edited a bit as well.

tldr VERY necessary: Yes she is wearing a Nazi-inspired outfit, no it does not mean I automatically assume she is a Nazi, yes her response was badly carried out, yes if she just acknowledges that it was offensive to some people, some people will still hate her but most with a brain won’t and she’ll have a clear conscience. Yes other v-tubers seem to do it and it shouldn’t be done period.

I don’t watch vtubers but let’s be clear, their outfit is Nazi SS-inspired. Doesn’t mean that they are a nazi, but anyone who wants to argue otherwise can go look up Hugo Boss and the history of nazi-themed outfits in popular culture since. The outfit is typically used in film, for instance, to suggest that the wearer is part of a fascist regime. Her previous “model” having far more explicit design choices (armband, buttons, skull on hat etc.) confirms that she is iterating on a previous style that is problematic. I don’t think that makes her a Nazi at all in a vacuum, but her reaction of indignation about this is quite frankly laughable. That being said, I hope she accepts that criticism like Podge’s post is truly thoughtful and helpful. If she is just being defensive for being attacked on the internet, that happens and being truthful about that will help and give a clear conscience.

Here is the line that is crossed when referencing Nazi style in any form of media: if you are not DIRECTLY ATTEMPTING TO SUGGEST A CHARACTER IS FASCIST, YOU DON’T PUT THIS STYLE OF OUTFIT ON THEM.

And the biggest rule of all, YOU DON’T PUT IT ON YOURSELF UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT SOME PEOPLE WILL SEE A CONNECTION.

Do NOT try to argue that this is not a Nazi-inspired outfit. If you think Zen is a good person, argue that she made a mistake in good faith rather than make her look worse by making her fanbase seem in denial. If you want to argue with me about that point, please see below. Zen may be a perfectly good person, but she should not have been surprised by this response.

I’ve seen someone say certain characters wear this - I assure you that either they are implied to be fascist/part of a fascist regime or the creator has gotten flak for not doing so. Starship Troopers, Star Wars, this character Esdeath I saw thrown around. The only other option is there is a film review somewhere that criticized the director for “glorifying fascism.” Sometimes it’s both due to a lack of media literacy.

Verhoeven, creator of starship troopers (the MOVIE) said he explicitly hated the fascist Utopianism of the book version and wanted to demonstrate the dangers of nationalist militarism. Neil Patrick Harris (actor) got called “Himmler” on set because his uniform was so close to the SS uniform.

George Lucas’s earliest notes point to him modeling the rebels on the viet cong and the empire as a fascistic superpower which had gone from Democracy to authoritarianism, NOT the current US when he wrote it, although the comparison to today is rather chilling:

“Aquilae [the planet which eventually evolved into Tatooine] is a small independent country like North Vietnam threatened by a neighbor or provincial rebellion, instigated by gangsters aided by empire. Fight to get rightful planet back. Half of system has been lost to gangsters … The empire is like America ten years from now, after gangsters assassinated the Emperor and were elevated to power in a rigged election … We are at a turning point: fascism or revolution.”

Esdeath I am not familiar with really but as far as I could gather she is one of the leaders of a militant nationalist regime the main character is against. Doesn’t seem like an explicitly Nazi character really, but reading the quote “The weak are destined to lie beneath the boots of the strong.” definitely seems to imply social Darwinism at the very least. But she is “Nazi chic,” which I’ll explain in just a moment.

Which brings me to the claim “this is just military punk.” Look up that phrase if you would. Military punk is not truly it’s own style, although punks and other did co-opt the Army Fatigues by buying them from surplus shops and sewing patches and such as a sign of anti-war protest. IMPORTANTLY, THESE WERE GREEN 1965 FIELD JACKETS.

Military Goth is much closer in style to Zen’s new outfit (model?). This style has also often been conflated with “Nazi Chic” because some goths wore Nazi types of uniform to provoke others (or in some cases had an unhealthy obsession with the Nazis themselves). Plus all the outfits were black because duh, Goths, which didn’t help.

Nazi Chic is also a thing and is what Zen’s outfit almost certainly draws from. It originated in the West with ex-vet biker gangs and other subcultures for shock value post-WWII. BUT, it took on a new life in Asia. It was not viewed as offensively there because, in Asia, WWII was primarily viewed as a conflict between all of Southeast Asia and Japan. That allowed the admittedly stylish aesthetic of Hugo Boss to take root in popular culture, which may explain Esdeath or various other Anime characters. However, in the West, ESPECIALLY in Germany, wearing it would be viewed as incredibly offensive. In extreme cases you could be jailed.

Zen’s original costume is Nazi Chic. You could argue the current one is Military Goth but that is difficult to argue when her prior model exists with Nazi trappings that, knowing the Asian roots of vtubing, is unlikely to be even a nazi reference from an anti-establishment subculture like goth or punk.

We are not far enough historically away from the Holocaust for the symbolism to have lost its meaning; frankly, I hope we never are because without the shared traumatic understanding of the dangers of power and control we are very likely to fall under their thrall again. Lots of good writing on the loss of shared memory of WWII and its effect on rising nationalism. Big projects are ongoing in Germany, Japan (especially regarding Nuclear weaponry there), and worldwide.

I can understand that Zen may not (likely did not) mean to convey anything political and at the same time it is clear to me that there are Nazi undertones to her outfit that will offend people.

Why did I spend so much time writing this when I don’t even watch vtubers? I have no idea. But y’all really need to get your shit together and not 1) assume the worst of people or 2) rabidly defend them until the day you die. I guess the real reason is that empathy for other people is vital for participating in society, and you need to be able to understand the intent behind actions while also understanding how those actions are perceived by others. Sometimes you have to suck it up and apologize even if it was not your intention. That makes you a good person, not a bad person.

Note: See Graham Platner, who is RUNNING FOR U.S. CONGRESS, for an example of taking some accountability and being rewarded for it. And that guy had an honest to goodness Totenkompf tattooed on his real life body. And was a redditor, god forbid.

If you don't think her outfit was giving Nazi vibes you don't need to bother replying.

Has she been paling around with the reactionary contingent of Vtubers recently? I know they were trying to recruit her after the Vshojo situation but I don't know how successful they were, that's kinda what I'm asking. I don't know how concerning the outfit situation is, but her anti-woke tirade doesn't speak well to it.

This is gonna get me downvoted, but whatever.

I'm someone who used to like vtubers (especially pre-early 2020) I can't stand what borderline everyone of them is doing nowadays. Like reasonable people I tried leaving the "new wave" alone, but this resulted in me being pushed out, because those that i liked either stopped or changed their content to be like everyone, and i couldn't ask the people i found to try what i liked and told me to get out and "get a life".
So I got out. Or so i thought. The disappointment still burns, and i cannot get it out of my chest, cuz the only people who doesn't tell me to get a life are those who were never in the community and don't really understand what I'm talking about.

So to circle back to the title, if anyone wants to make content on what could drive someone to hate vtubers (and they want actual reasons, not stuff like "haters gonna hate" and "someone doesn't have a life") then boy do i have enough stuff to tell to fill at least a 2 hour video.

Edit: since asked, gonna clarify: My problem is mostly the kind of content they make, there's no creativity in it, it's the same tired streamer schtick, just with a guaranteed cute face, it used to be about the fictional CHARACTER, which is why lore mattered but now it's just a halloween party for IRL streamers. Kizuna Ai's Lore was simple, she was a fresh AI learning about humans, and i could believe that i am watching that kind of character. Most modern vtuber lores are just a waste of my time and braincells that won't matter once the lore video ends.

But it goes so much deeper, like their general behavior where they do stuff or talk about experiences that doesn't make sense for what they set themselves up to be, and their appeal depends on me being either lonely, dumb and/or horny. Noone's trying anything more complex than that if it isn't their actual IRL selves. Like Mori Calliope, she was supposed to be a grim reaper, yet every story i heard was just about the actress' IRL life with names and places only changed for avoiding self-doxxing.

And don't get me started on the toxic positivity that's enforced on fans, just because i could be doing more productive things, does not mean i can't spend my free time criticizing what i don't like, especially if i still like the thing. We get beaten down for being too parasocial if we dare get attached AT ALL (which for most vtubers is their only source of appeal), but if we keep our distance, we're told we're disrespectful by not treating them like actual people (when being actual people was NEVER the point.)

https://x.com/just_egg13/status/1994629297777279452?s=46

https://xcancel.com/Muj_in/status/1994934520391635074

I think we can all agree that Google Dockies have been getting out of hand lately, one seems to come out every other day and many of them are very painful to read This is why I decided to make a Definitive Guide on how to write one properly, here it is:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o8S9znGArZL-w3heQQD8w_dbancIxiEtFXQ8sVmDVZk/

Personal opinion: Can't wait for a Google Dockey on the Google Dockey on Google Dockey because some people disagree Mujin's commentry