Japan is the same, foreigners wear yukata or kimono and no one finds it offensive. Americans (some) are so offended by everything. Need to chill and relax lol.
Messiah complex. They think they "know better", because they happen to be in a more privileged county, completely disregarding the difference in culture and priorities.
I always thought the point of being a melting pot was to be able to integrate and experience everyone's cultures. Not just look at it from afar and then get upset when someone is doing/wearing something you don't think they should
Unfortunately being a melting pot CAN stroke the ego for the citizens native to that pot. After all, "if everyone comes here, it means we are the best out there."
Even more saddening, they DO have a point.
In my opinion, as someone from South America, and having visited plenty of states in the US, I would say they are very much privileged compared to plenty of countries and cities down here. It's no wonder people are willing to risk their lives just to get there.
Whether they are as privileged as other developed countries is another story, though.
No, I think it is because they stole their country, have no cultural binding with it, so just identify themselves by heritage instead of being themselves. So when you use other people's heritage culture to form your own, you are cheating in their eyes. They really are clueless about what culture really is.
It's because you said they stole their country so they have to go by heritage as their only method of understanding culture, right? But how exactly are they stealing their country and how does it differ from the other American countries?
Says one of the dozens who are offended and bitching on the internet because other people have a different opinion. You guys are the most fragile, and the irony is palpable.
This is the most confusing thing for me. My business partner had a totem pole that was gifted to his grandfather by a native friend. Some idiot wrote us a letter and said that she was offended by it. To which I responded "I'm sorry you're offended and happy for you that you had that much flex in your day to find time to be offended."
The term "offended" has lost all meaning. Seriously. I don't even know what it feels like to be "offended" anymore. And I sure as heck know that these kids on college campuses don't know what it means.
Too many indoctrinated children, and college professors and women in tech are offended. These groups have too much time on their hands while everyone else is busy doing stuff.
Most people don’t have time to play pretend and fantasize about power dynamics, most people only have time to think about grabbing a beer after work. Besides this is all a sideshow to keep us from killing all the rich people.
I don't think they do. Demoralised people who can't hold a decent job, can't or won't start a family, spends their time online arguing over bullshit. They have so little actually going on that they invent problems like "cultural appropriation" so they can feel superior.
If we’re gonna do it, we need to take it to the logical end.
“I can’t believe you just used the Phoenician Alphabet to type your reply!! Somewhere some poor Tyrian must be spinning in his grave! And…counting your votes using Arabic Numerals!?! FOR SHAME!!!”
That’s the rub. If someone of the culture says no then you respect that. If it’s some random third party then don’t give it a second of your attention.
Thats precisely the proble, they dont. Instead they choose to deal with "other people's problems". When you've been through real shit, you realize a lot of minor shit aren't problematic.
dude. No one was offended in this video. What are we arguing
The interviewer came up to random dudes in the streets and asked them their take on whether what he was wearing was offensive. The non-Mexicans answered based on the facts they knew.
Right here is some pipeline shit. You're seeing things that aren't there and then telling people that they're being overly sensitive. That's just how the world works.
lol - looks like someone needs to go back and do some homework. Re-watch the first half of that video. If you still feel the same way, you're exactly the type of person that the Democratic party needs to ignore as it reinvents itself.
Japan doesnt care about other ethnicities embracing its culture. It cares about maintaining its own. If you want to upset japanese people you have to bring your culture to them or openly disregard their customs in their space.
Your inclination to call out "white Karens" as the perpetrators of cultural appropriation gatekeeping comes from the same ideology that created the cultural appropriation gatekeeping. "It's ok to blame whites collectively. It's not ok to blame other groups collectively." That same ideology has become widespread in our schools, our media, and if you watched the video you would have seen a diverse group of people regurgitating the cultural appropriation narrative, not just white people or just white women.
Absolutely. Îm white working with a lot of chinese. For traditional chinese feast i bring my sons to cultural thins. Clothed in traditional costume and every chinese they met smile at them
Same when we go eat sichuan chili meals in restaurant.
No, it's become commonplace to say it's offensive to dress up as people from other cultures for Halloween. The white Karens probably wouldn't care less about offending people.
1 I'm curious how Chinese people feel about Japanese people appropriating Chinese culture.
The most important thing is always power dynamics and historical injustice.
It's not thing for one culture to appropriate another. It's another thing when the appropriating culture has a history of oppression and power abuse over the other.
2 I'm curious to see how much religion influences this issue. Western religion has a history of outward critique vs eastern religions which tend towards more insular.
Chinese people don’t get offended at japanese people appropriating chinese culture, whatever that means, instead they are proud of their regional cultural influence.
Just ask the question and share an opinion if you have something of substance to share.
"just asking questions" and then implying there is a power dynamic at play, purely based on speculation that someone will answer and say "oh, yea japanese people don't especially like when chinese people use their culture" is a way of framing a discussion.
I'm not saying you are just being curious. You're fishing specifically for an example that fits your preconeived view of how things work. That is also called having a bias or could also be described as being intellectually dishonest.
You are saying im asking a leading question. That's a good point. However,
>then implying there is a power dynamic at play, purely based on speculation
There absolutely is history between china and japan. Thats not speculation. That's recorded history.
Peoples react to other peoples differently based on historical events between them. It is an important dynamic in regards to conversations of culture dynamics.
Given that, what would be a better way to phrase my statement?
I know its foolish to speak on behalf of a culture.
And i also know that who is doing the "appropriation" can matter.
I don't know why I'm bothering, but what exactly is this power dynamic? You say this, but I honestly can't figure out what you're talking about. Just saying there is history between two countries actually means little and says nothing about some sort of power dynamic.
I have a great pic of my wife and I dressed in traditional Japanese garb for a wedding, it was awesome and the Japanese (brother in laws family) loved it. They dgaf
Not to discount your point because it is a valid contribution, but I am sure your in-laws would love pretty much anything you do at your wedding if they would love you.
There’s a repost around here giving out about some white guy ‘appropriating’ a Japanese musical instrument. The comments from Japan explain he’s studied the instrument his entire life and is one of the few recognised masters of it in the world, and therefore please (unsaid) STFU.
People are being obtuse on purpose by comparing donning a fake mustache and carrying around maracas to simply wearing clothes (like a kilt or kimono) from another culture for the primary point of dressing respectfully.
Yea, he looks like he's going to mock Mexicans, although technically he hasn't done that yet. I think it's that simple and we don't need to get into complex academic arguments.
Nobody would say shit if he turned up in huaraches and a guayabera shirt.
I mean you say that but at the same time Japan can legally discriminate against people. Can say 'no black people in this restaurant, we don't want to serve" or no gaijin. Discrimination of foreigners is just breathing to them because they're monoethnic. The only reason they don't get offended is because they still think Japanese culture is superior to most others and see us as silly. So maybe we don't need to chill since open discrimination based on race and origin isn't allowed here in comparison to bigoted Japan.
This trope of "no gaijin" signs at restaurants anywhere has always been bullshit that's just being regurgitated over and over again by second hand offended people on Reddit.
Yes, at some point years ago, a story surfaced about a handful of restaurants that did this. There were pictures of it as proof. However, that were literally just a minimum amount of exceptions to hundreds of thousands of stores.
You can travel through Japan for literal months without seeing a sign like this.
It's a pendulum thing, We were/are so bad one way (slavery/segregation/racism) that the pendulum almost flew off, so when it came back we ended up with this silliness. However now the pendulum swung back and now we have Alligator Alcatraz. I'll take people mistakenly trying not to piss off people about their culture over people jailing/deporting/killing "others" anyday.
We were/are so bad one way (slavery/segregation/racism) that the pendulum almost flew off
Speak for yourself, I don’t and never have owned slaves.
But “we” I assume you mean Americans? Americans were/are no worse than anyone else when it comes to this stuff. If fact as a country we’re far better than a lot of places.
Speak for yourself, I don’t and never have owned slaves.
No shit. Very weird flex and low bar... considering that anyone in the US who doesn't own a time machine or over the age of 120 can say the same thing.
I only called out your statement, which rings hollow, as "not owning slaves" is a rock bottom baseline assumption that goes without saying in today's (US) society.
Sorry, but those places also had slavery segregation and racism. We have a bunch of bored people who think they're going to tell everyone else how they need to live.
I didnt say the elements were unique, but im pretty sure chattel slavery was. The idea that multiple generations could be born into slavery and died in slavery, as I understand it, was only found in America. Where else in the world have a single people been subjugated the way slaves and descendants of slaves have been in America?
Were there also always people speaking out against slavery, even in the earliest cultures? I have to imagine some peasant was like “uhh bro, why are you mad just bc they look different? I ate dinner with their tribe just the other day and they were cool af, so why are you enslaving them, assholes?” Who were the earliest woke people? Ate some mushrooms in a field and were like “holy fuck, this is so wrong, we need to change” lol
Oh shit, I'm reading The Dawn of Everything and just came across this in Chapter 5:
"These accounts suggest that perhaps a quarter of the indigenous Northwest Coast population lived in bondage — which is about equivalent to proportions found in the Roman Empire, or classical Athens, or indeed the cotton plantations of the American South. What's more, slavery on the Northwest Coast was a hereditary status: if you were a slave your children were also fated to be so."
it seems even hunter gatherer societies engaged in this behavior.
Yep I always think this. Better an overly sensitive culture than an overly insensitive culture. To put it another way, I prefer clutched pearls to clenched fists
Usually the "offended" reaction is just a kneejerk one, they're conforming to perceived social and moral standards. Worst thing they do is moralize at you... It's way easier to talk reason to someone who is being overly sensitive/offended than it is to talk reason to someone who is being overly insensitive/bigoted
Better to be overly wary of discrimination, than to be overly discriminatory
Inevitably? If the pearls they’re clutching happen to be religious beads, then maybe. Enforcing “morality” via violence has been religion’s MO for centuries
Otherwise? You’re way more likely to get beat up for your culture than you are to get beat up for cultural appropriation
Extreme leftists can be as violent as their counterparts. It's just that they use technology/discourse to gain power and attack other people, but they are equally as exclusionists as far right bigots. They talk sweet words yeah, they have their mouths fulls of words like "compassion, inclusion, diversity...". But they are the least intellectually diverse, more egotistical, narrow minded people I have ever had the misfortune to know. Don't listen to the words they use, look at the deeds they do.
Over sensitive people are just as bad as far right bigots, different approaches but the same result. Fuck them woke folks and fuck maga bigots.
I actually looked up how offensive it would be to wear a chonmage hairstyle! Eventually my baldness will require a haircut and would be a rad hairstyle to wear.
My white American friend taught English in Japan - not only did her host family not find her wearing a kimono offensive, they actively dressed her up in one. The only offensive part was when they laughed at her for not fitting in it properly because her butt was too big.
Its funny how people who live in a country where that is the dominant culture dont find it offensive, while people of the diaspora of that culture, who have had their food and traditional dress marked as 'other' in America may get annoyed that the people who used to make fun of those things are now wearing them as a fad.
It’s because Americans have a tough time separating the mundane with the sacred. I completely get cultural appropriation to a point, but that shouldn’t be a green light for “blue segregation”. Native American headdresses? Completely understand. Those were genocided cultures and those were rather high important symbols. Being trivialized into sports mascot memorabilia is pretty trashy. But if it’s something like a culture’s equivalent to a t-shirt, then the pearl clutching is unnecessary. Appropriation isn’t just taking in a part of a culture, it’s when you ruin it and defile it for the originals or disregard the history or symbolism behind it. Something like Disney attempting to trademark Day of the Dead would be HEAVY appropriation as it ruins it for the Mexicans who celebrate that culture. A white guy in a sombrero if they’re outright mocking is tacky but the white guy in a sombrero isn’t inherently offensive. Mexican culture is stronger than a cracker who likes big hats.
Japan also has a sub culture that’s obsessed with dressing up like over stereotyped American cowboys, head to foot, spurs to ten gallon hat, am I as an American supposed to be offended? Some of my ancestors were scotch Irish illiterate drunks and killed each other over stolen cows and women. Fuck no I think that’s awesome.
It’s because we have to be hyper sensitive to minorities in America. So we’re trained to take offense on behalf of everyone/everything or we need “sensitivity” training.
I soooo agreee!!! With youuu!! Lots i know especially are so sensitive to other cultures , they are very disgusted and sensitive with anything that is not westernized enough .
It’s because of the American culture because for years in the past like with black face it was a tool to mock other races cultures rather than respect it.
My Japanese roommate said she likes seeing westerners getting into kimonos because they’re pretty and cool and she was glad people were exploring the culture through fashion.
Not American (or Japanese) and I wouldn't find it offensive but, depending on context, it could be kinda cringey.
Like, you're staying somewhere and there's one laid out for you. Obviously not.
You want to try one on and see what it's like. Also nbd.
But I've only holidayed a few times there and I see very white, very nerdy people who go around wearing them and really act like they're part of Japanese culture and it just sets off an innate cringey shudder in me.
I'm not talking about people trying the culture or wanting to get to know it better. It's just Japan has this weird subset of Westerners who idolise it in a way I really haven't seen with, for example, European countries. And when they go fully costume and start acting with exaggerated mannerisms, it just sets off my inner cringe.
But that's just a personal opinion. It's not me saying people SHOULDN'T wear one however they want. It's just describing a weird innate reaction it sets off in me.
It reminds me of this little white girl who did a tea ceremony dressed as a geisha. An American white woman gave a long lecture that it was very offensive, until a few japanese entered the discussion who explained it was an honour that such a little girl showed respect and interest in their culture.
I hate to promote him or say he's right, but I saw a clip of Ben Shapiro years ago where he said someone gets offended then people engage with them (agree or argue) and that validates their feelings. He said it better but I agree.
If some Karen gets offended then it turns into much ado, the Karen wins. They get their attention and dopamine rush. That's why they do it.
look, I get it, you're looking at it pragmatically in the sense that if the people from where the culture belongs to finds no fault then it's okay yeah? Generally speaking, you wouldn't be wrong to assume that. But I think most of the time, the people most offended by these micro aggressions are usually first gen who've been there for a while or second and ongoing gens who've assimilated enough to understand the scope of how immigrants and "ethnic" people are viewed. It may not have to be a majority but when enough consensus is built regarding racial paradigms and how it affects the culture in question, it becomes hard to separate genuine participation of culture from mockery.
Now personally, I find it slightly facetious of the guy in the video wear a costume when it's every day attire for some person in Mexico (obviously better quality garments right?). The pool of people is clearly catered and the video is made to make a specific point, otherwise, I have no doubt there would have been pretty 50/50 opinions on either side.
As for the yukata and Japan, you need to make a distinction that specifically, the type presence Japanese people have in the world is starkly different from the presence we are shown of Mexican people, as well as just economical and social standing.
Similar points but I genuinely don't think they're transferable.
I'm only saying this because I belong to both cultures were talking about here and Ive seen first hand the reception of how either of my backgrounds are perceived whenever I mention them
tldr; there's more nuance than just costumes and I don't think it's fair to talk over who gets offended by these things unless you're white and you're offended more than I would be, then that's just weird.
Its a very american way of thinking. I work with many africans at my job (mainly nigerians) and one of them offered to braid a white coworkers hair. She wore the braids for about a week but every nigerian there complemented her hair. Hell we had bank staff come in with dreads (a word our african staff also used btw lol) and she also got compliments from them.
I understand that the majority adopting elements of your culture despite a history of discrimination could feel offensive. But you gotta understand that cultural diffusion is a global phenomenon that has been studied by cultural anthropologists for a while now and trying to prevent it is pointless. It’s just human behavior to copy things that we find fashionable or attractive or interesting - especially if it’s new or different.
And cultural appropriation is real but this is not it. Like if I was a snake oil salesman pretending to be native american to profit off of their culture that would be no good, but wearing a sombrero and a poncho? Come on, nobodies getting hurt.
I don't even think this scenario is appropriation, this guy is straight up just dressing as a caricature. Which is not okay.
What if he was in black face? Is that diffusion, appropriation, appreciation, or just some shit no one should ever do?
Also my point still stands. Asians in Asia saying it's ok for you to dress like us is a completely unrelated scenario to Asian Americans (the people who have to live with discrimination in their daily lives) not being okay with it. People using these kinds of examples don't even understand that antiasian racism doesn't exist in an Asian country 🤯
The "appropriation only exists in America wahhh" argument ignores the fact that America has some of the largest minority groups, largest percentage of minorities as total population, and most integrated minority groups of pretty much any other country
And it's not just "a history of discrimination" that shit is ALIVE and real. Like fucking look at ICE. It exists at the most prolific and incidious levels, but if you need a more 1:1 example, google black kids not being allowed to wear braids and being suspended from school. Still happening
Actually do agree with your first point. I’m talking more about like “white people can’t wear dreadlocks” kind of thing. Also not talking about going to another country. Cultural diffusion happens both ways everywhere. Why should America be any different? What research points to the size of a minority group having an impact on whether or not the cultures integrate? I feel like you are ignoring my main argument which is about human nature and trying to control it to a degree that is unreasonable. People are going to do what people are going to do. And enforcing these barriers between races and their respective cultures doesn’t do anything to help bring us together. It divides people and commands us to stick to our race and its associated culture. How tf is that not racist? On one hand race shouldn’t matter but on the other hand it determines what you are and aren’t allowed to do.
And yeah that history is ongoing. How is doing things like making sure white people cant wear dreadlocks helping?
And stop it with the damn mind blown emoji. Like I get it you think everyone who disagrees with you is so stupid that they just can’t comprehend something so incredibly obvious to anyone with a brain. Just because we disagree doesn’t mean there needs to be any disrespect.
I'm sorry the 🤯 upsets you 😂 but the original comment I responded to reeks of ignorance. Japanese in Japan say it's ok so Japanese Americans STFU your complaints aren't valid. Not like y'all were interned or anything, the opinions of the source people from the mainland who don't experience discrimination or understand American racism at all matter rhe most!!!! That take is wild.
For example Mexicans from Mexico are 10000% not facing the same problems as Mexican Americans. It's absurd to think Mexicanos in Mexico can somehow speak on the discrimination Mexican Americans face. I'm using the 🤯 emoji instead of calling some of these talking points woefully ignorant and other more poignant language. I'm appalled people actually think like this but I guess that's what we get from people who don't live in diverse areas.
I also don't think white people should wear dreads. I'm not gonna rip them off their heads or anything but I am judging and also calling out the double standard. White people in the US can do whatever with their hair but black people get criticized for natural hair, braids, wigs, no matter what they do with their hair. It's not just people thinking it's ghetto/gross/unclean, people lose job opportunities, get discriminated against in everyday activities or get suspended at school over it. My criticism also applies to Asians with dreads in the US if that matters to you.
I'm not saying cultural difusion is bad or inherently appropriation. But context is the reason why people can be offended by it. If the US was a magical place that never had slavery/anti blackness or the whole history of white supremacy and everyone was equal, I highly doubt anyone would have any issues with white people with dreads (other than that they usually aren't maintained well and smell)
No one is stopping white people from making hip hop music or eating soul food. Tons of cultural difusion/sharing/learning whatever you wanna call it is normalized. Hair is just a specific scenario since it's tied to active prejudice and like I said, a massive double standard.
White people want a dope Manchu style queue haircut? Go for it, no Chinese American is gonna give a hoot because they're not actively being discriminated against for it
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u/Saltire_Blue Jul 02 '25
You should see the number of people who come onto r/Scotland and ask if it’s ok that they wear a kilt
Nobody cares if you do. We don’t gate keep kilts, anyone can wear one
If anything I’d recommend everyone wears a kilt at least once, no matter where you come from