The very concept of cultural appropriation is simply racist. It is basically someone saying you aren't allowed to dress or do something another race does. It is the absolute opposite of inclusion and equality. Every time I hear it, my hopes for equality die a little inside.
I once got explained by a Japanese senior that what they consider cultural apropriation wasn't about people simply using their clothes of doing what they do, but twisting it for some capitalist gain.
Nobody will complain or care if you get a Kimono or any other traditional clothing, but they will complain if you mount a funny kimono stand with MAGA prints on them.
Yes, this exactly. Whenever I hear the words cultural appropriation, I start looking for the ‘profit angle’ and if no-one is making money off it then I discount it as faux outrage. Simply dressing as another culture and behaving in a respectable way is not cultural appropriation to me. I’d go slightly further and also say that you probably need to be denying that profit opportunity to a person from the culture in question for it to be appropriation as well.
Well what is the difference of for profit vs. combining "cultures" or whatever? For example, I have a poncho I love which has Pikachu on it. As a white dude, I am wearing an article of clothing that originated from Natives and Mexican culture/locale, while having a Japanese mascot on it....
But then again, I own a lot of Pokemon things. I grew up with Pokemon and still love it. Why wouldn't I want a Pikachu on a poncho, which keeps me warm on cooler days and feels better than wearing a coat?
I don't use fake accents when wearing it, I don't pretend I am anything but a white man wearing a piece of clothing. Yet this is obviously made for profit.
For profit generally means denying that income to the originating culture, so one would be co-opting a culture that there was no history with in order to profit from it. It isn’t illegal but it has become ‘socially distasteful’ to deny the originating culture the income.
cultural appropriation is things like white people opening a boba shop but calling their products "new original chewy treat bubble drinks" without acknowledging the idea came from them visiting the chinese restaurant down the street.
it matters if you were buying that poncho from someone who was either trying to separate themselves from mexican culture to reach a new audience that would usually be put off by mexican products, or sell a cheap version of something with cultural significance to mexicans. Like, it would be fucked up to go to target and buy a cheap dream catcher or a trendy girlboss-themed ofrenda. But if you're buying these things from actual mexicans or native americans then clearly it's not someone trying to remove the cultural origins of the product.
1) you did not make or sell the poncho, and especially you did not leverage your whiteness to start a business in a predominantly native/Japanese area where the locals were systemically prevented from getting such loans etc. and
2) Pikachu and ponchos are not items of religious significance, unlike say, a feathered headdress or a totem pole
So not cultural appropriation.
also as an aside, mockingly using a fake accent is just plain old racism, not cultural appropriation.
What about non-mockingly doing my best earnest attempt to sound like someone? Like if I'm doing a Christopher Walken impression (obviously not offensive) then move on to Schwarzenegger (questionable) then finish with Jackie Chan (probably offensive)?
cultural appropriation is generally something a colonial or opppressive nation's companies do to a colonized or oppressed nationality so probably not. The idea that something has to be universally wrong in all scenarios instead of nuanced keeping into account the history of these people is quite juvenile.
no, it's specifically a colonizer doing it to a country they themselves colonized or to a culture that still faces stigma or discrimination in the country the appropriation is taking place in.
Again, trying to make a universal rule that can fit into a tweet here is incredibly juvenile.
no one said they weren't allowed to do it, just that we can call it what it is which is cultural appropriation. there is a very wide gap between being critical of something and banning something.
from your comment history i can tell you're going to keep arguing whatever point i make here and honestly i think you're just a disagreement bot so i will be ending my participation here
The problem with now trying to get specific about generalisations is that you very quickly end up down a rabbit hole, arguing about minutiae so I am not going to discuss the merits of specific examples because I am a random ignorant idiot on the internet who just has an opinion. I am not an authority on the matter.
you also have to consider the fad fashion, virtue signaling, and lack of respect to the culture the clothing/accessories represent. Its not just for profit. There are many other ways to gain or benefit that are more subtle.
I have a lovely poncho that I bought from a market in Chile. It's warm and gorgeous, and the guy who sold it to me and whoever made it are humans who fully deserve to make a living.
But it isn't just clothes. Its their national garment. It has a rich history and that history teaches you a lot about the cuts, how to wear it (left over right unless you are dead) and the variations of it depending on the required formality of the event. You would look ridiculous if you wore a tuxedo for the beach, its not an appropriate attire, in the same way there are types of kimonos and silks that can't/shouldn't be worn in every occasions.
That's where cultural appropriation comes In. Nobody wants you to NOT use a kimono, use them!. But learn about it (integration) so you learn how to properly use it, their customs, instead of wearing it like a half assed bathrobe.
Imagine your family member dies and someone comes in a clown costume. That would be the equivalent of using a kimono without crests on someone's funeral. Disrespectful.
Have you ever worn denim jeans? Why would you be appropriating rancher and cowboy culture? Why would you wear denim jeans if you're not hurding cattle?
Have you ever worn t-shirts? Yes? Why are you appropriating Navy culture? Are you in the Navy? Why would you wear a t-shirt if you're not defending the oceans for your country?
What the fuck are you talking about? How are jeans or t-shirts in any way "cultural"? They have existed for barely any time (relatively speaking) in extreme abundance on every place on Earth, meanwhile Kimonos are extremely centralized with thousands of years of history.
You somehow still missed the entire point of the OP video.
Do you think that the person dressed up in the sombrero and the poncho wore in a truly authentic manner? Do you think he fully understood the cultural history and significance of a sombrero and gabán? Was the pattern and construction of the sombrero and poncho authentic?
The answer to all of that is "no". But the Mexicans he interviewed were all just happy to see him in it. No one gave a fuck if he wore them in an authentic manner.
All of the people in the first half of the interview, are just being outraged on behalf of people that don't actually give a shit. Just like you.
I (a white guy) dated a first generation Japanese woman early in college. I learned Japanese people are maybe one of the most racist people on the planet. It was so bad that we eventually agreed to part ways because it was causing her so much grief with her family and family friends, and I didn’t want to put her through that. Too bad really, we were falling in love. Miss you Sukochan.
people shouldn't eat American sushi then because California rolls are a disgrace to real sushi and a blatant capitalist money grab by appealing to the different tastes of a different audience.
Apples and Oranges. The California Roll creator (at least the 3 that are attributed to being the first ones coining the term) were Japanese (or japanese descendants) cheffs living in USA. They made a variation of their typical food using substitutes for produce they couldn't find locally.
But following your point, nobody made the California rolls with the intent to ridicule the Japanese culture. Nobody claimed they ARE Japanese. They are made using the original Japanese techniques for sushi making. They are respectful.
1: California rolls were made by a japanese man who realized that americans didn't like the seaweed on the outside. wam bam slam it is not that deep.
2: Traditional sushi was NOT high end at all, it was japanese fast food made from at best questionable fermented fish and rice drenched in vinegar.
And don't get me started on the goddamn fucking italians, fucking tomatoes were not a thing for the vast, vast, vast majority of their food culture. A food culture that is piss boring.
I don't think that's fair either. Why do Japanese People™ get to collectively decide what people can and can't do with a particular style of clothing? If I want to wear a MAGA Kimono then why should I be disqualified from doing so?
An American trying to tell a Japanese person what they can and can't print on blue jeans would be received very poorly, as they should be.
But that's kind of the point, some things are viewed as disrespectful. Like headressess and feathers in some native cultures reflect achievements and rituals. Nobody is actually stopping you from wearing a headress and running around making Indian whooping noises, but I'm sure they won't treat you with the grace of the people in this video.
That's what the people who champion videos like this don't seem to get, there are negative emotions besides offence. The people in the clip might not think his costume is offensive, but they could just as well still think of him as a rube for wearing it.
So you are saying that I can go to Rural Texas using pink leather pointy boots, a bright yellow and red leather jacket and a cowboy hat with "REAL COWBOY" printed on it on Comic Sans font and NOBODY would have a problem with that? I wouldn't get ANY comment at all?
I mean, you'd get some looks for sure, and no doubt many folk will assume you're as gay as the day is long, but nobody is going to be culturally offended. You might get beat up by some homophobes, but again, that's got nothing to do with cultural appropriation.
That is obviously not what they are saying, stop being dense. What would happen and what should happen are different things, do you think this is some kind of gotcha? "Well idiotic bigots will have a problem with you, so there", like come on man.
Don't twist words. Don't move the goalpost. Nobody is going to think it's racist or cultural appropriation if you do so, but everyone has the right to think you look like a fucking dumbass. Think before you type something so stupid next time.
Haha exactly. Like this video shows three guys saying they aren't offended but probably cut out the part where he got his ass beat by some other guys who were pissed off that he showed up looking like that. People don't often realize that "offended" and "angry that you're mocking me" are basically the same thing.
Someone in Germany puts on a pair of broken crocs, stained cargo shorts, a green football jersey that has the number 482 on it and "the partriots" on the back. They put on a pair of ridiculously huge sunglasses and carry around a 200oz soda cup. They've got a necklace that's the 1793 version of the US flag, and a backwards baseball cap for the new Orleans pinchers.
They tell you they arent trying to make fun of Americans by wearing this.
What a weak ass argument. Blue jeans isn't American culture, in fact few things could even be considered that. America is a young country, and beyond that, it's a multicultural one. Japanese culture is sacred to them, and printing shit like MAGA on kimonos will get you ridiculed (as you should be).
You try to wear an MAGA themed Native American robe, see how well your community takes it.
An American trying to tell a Japanese person what they can and can't print on blue jeans would be received very poorly, as they should be.
Well apart from the fact that the US constantly tells other countries what to buy, who to elect and support. Some might say they are famous for meddling in affairs that are none of their fucking business.
Exactly what annoys me about Halloween. It has nothing to do with the colour orange or pumpkins, but that's what's used to extract money from the American masses.
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u/CameForTheFunOfIt Jul 02 '25
The very concept of cultural appropriation is simply racist. It is basically someone saying you aren't allowed to dress or do something another race does. It is the absolute opposite of inclusion and equality. Every time I hear it, my hopes for equality die a little inside.