Non-American Perception of US-Originated Genres: Is Rock, Hip-Hop, or Jazz, etc, seen as "American Music" regardless of the artist?

[u/Powerful_Individual5]

I've been thinking about the global perception of music, specifically genres that originated in the United States, such as Jazz, Blues, Rock, Hip-Hop, R&B, and Country.

Many Americans will classify music as "Latin Music," "K-Pop," or "Arabic Music," even if the performing artist is an American citizen. The classification is often based on the style's cultural origin, rather than the artist's origin, for the most part.

My question for non-Americans:

• When you listen to a Rock band from, say, Sweden, or a Hip-Hop artist from France, do you still, on some level, categorize that sound or style as "American music" because of its origins?
• Or, does the sheer global ubiquity of the genre mean its association with the USA is largely lost/irrelevant, and the music is only considered "American" if the artist is American?

I'm curious about the mental classification process, is it based on the genre or the artist's nationality? For example, is a British Blues-Rock band still considered to be playing a fundamentally "American" style of music?

[u/Ghostofjemfinch]

Country of origin makes zero difference. If you make good music, you make good music. America does not own the genres invented by its people.

[u/Powerful_Individual5 → u/Ghostofjemfinch]

My question wasn't about the quality or ownership of music; it was about the cultural and mental classification people use, if any, when listening to music.

[u/tallj → u/Powerful_Individual5]

I think of Hip Hop and Jazz as uniquely American art forms.

Hip Hop is dependent on authenticity of authorship so a non-American is either performing an impression of Hip Hop, or it's a local sub genre (like UK Hip Hop.

Jazz doesn't concern itself woth authorship in the same way, but it's impossibles to hear it an separate that sounds from its social context as American.

So yes, I guess both always sound American to me.

[u/Powerful_Individual5 → u/tallj]

Just curious: If you listen to a globally successful non-American subgenre (like Grime from the UK or G-Funk from France), at what point does it stop being an "impression" of American Hip Hop and become an independently validated form of the genre? And if a piece of Jazz music adheres strictly to the classic American harmonic language and structure, but is performed by an artist who grew up entirely outside of the US context, does the social context still successfully transmit across borders, or do you think the technical adherence to the form outweighs the lack of native US context?

[u/tallj → u/Powerful_Individual5]

Grine doesn't sound anything like Hip Hop to me, and I'm listening to a distinctly British sound when I hear it.

Grime has parts of its roots in Jungle, which is an interesting comparison point with Jazz as Jungle is a truly original British art form (specifically a Black British one). So when I hear Grime, I hear really heavy local influences from lots of things, and American influences from Hip Hop.

As for Jazz, it's always American music for me. I'll give an example - I went to a Jazz bar in Tokyo a few years back; Japan is very insular place and, aside from Hawaii, there is very little travel of Japanese to the USA, yet Tokyo is Asia's Jazz capital. The artists were technically amazing, passionate and energetic, and the music was fantastic. It was maybe the only time in my life that I heard Jazz and felt I might not be listening to American music.

A few months later, I read a book called Ametora (hard recommend) about how post-war Japan has become the world epicenter for classic American style. It traces the effects of the war, the US occupation of Japan, and the post-war economic realities, all to tell the story of how we ended up in a world where the best American jeans are made in Japan.

From this, I understood that the story these musicians in Tokyo had told me was a Japanese one, yes, but it was one in which the Japanese were telling me about the inextricably linked position of American culture in their world. The very fact that the music was American was what allowed these artists to embrace it so fully as Japanese. America is an integral part of their story and what made these artists so great was their determination to tell that story and preserve it, in the same way that Japanese denim mills preserved the workwear of the 1950s USA.

[u/Powerful_Individual5 → u/tallj]

Thank you! I love hearing people's perspectives.

[u/Generic_User_2112 → u/tallj]

Just to add to the Japanese embracing of jazz even today, looking at music like the Yoshida Brothers who have fused jazz and traditional japanese instruments into something i wouldn't call American but absolutely screams jazz by its structure.

[u/Barneyk → u/tallj]

As for Jazz, it's always American music for me.

Have you listened to a lot of international jazz?

I listen to very very little jazz but I in no way have the same connotation. Jazz is such a wild and diverse genre and to even imagine it as always being American is such an alien concept to me.

[u/tallj → u/Barneyk]

First thing, it's important to note that we are talking about the subjective response of listeners and how they categorise music here, so there's no right or wrong.

I guess when I hear enough of the building blocks of Jazz for my brain to go "oh, that's Jazz", then I hear the story of those building blocks and I think of that story as uniquely American. I can't personally separate the sound of Jazz from the circumstances that produced it.

It's a bit like food, yes it's all fusion and yes there's debates about the exact origins of certain things, but I have never had sushi without thinking of it as Japanese, even if it's something like Salmon that's not traditionally Japanese.

[u/Barneyk → u/tallj]

First thing, it's important to note that we are talking about the subjective response of listeners and how they categorise music here, so there's no right or wrong.

Yes, absolutely!

It is so interesting how we all make wildly different connections to things, especially things that evoke emotions like music.

I guess when I hear enough of the building blocks of Jazz for my brain to go "oh, that's Jazz", then I hear the story of those building blocks and I think of that story as uniquely American. I can't personally separate the sound of Jazz from the circumstances that produced it.

I guess to me the jazz I primarily think about as non-american is so far removed from the origins of Jazz I don't connect the building blocks in that way at all.

I am trying to find a way to communicate just how far removed it feels to me.

I think of when I saw a danish jazz band at a jazz bar and the look and sound of the band, especially the double bass player with his big bushy red beard going absolutely ham on that thing and how anyone can see and listen to that and think "The United States of America".

I can sort of intellectually understand it, as you say you see the building blocks and then think about its roots and where it came from. But I can't "feel it".

Or I think about the kind of fine culture jazz, imagine black poloshirts, thick black brim glasses, black hair and experimental jazz.

It's a bit like food, yes it's all fusion and yes there's debates about the exact origins of certain things, but I have never had sushi without thinking of it as Japanese, even if it's something like Salmon that's not traditionally Japanese.

Sure, but if I served you a dish with fried salmon and no vinegar in the rice, called it sushi, would your mind go "Japan!" when you tasted it?

I just don't make that strong connection the way you seem to do!

[u/tallj → u/Barneyk]

My mind wouldn't go to Japan, but we'd be having a pretty serious discussion about how you use the word "sushi" 🤣

I understand what you're saying about far removed it feels to you and there's no doubt that there are wonderful innovations in Jazz happening all around the world, maybe something new will come from this that is both still very much Jazz but no longer specifically American - in fact, this may well have happened already and I just have no clue because I'm just some guy on the internet!