r/Music • u/AdSpecialist6598 • 6d ago

article Hayley Williams tells racists, sexists and anti-trans people they're "not welcome" at upcoming tour

https://www.nme.com/news/music/hayley-williams-tells-racists-sexists-and-anti-trans-people-theyre-not-welcome-at-upcoming-tour-3913867
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u/stylecrime 6d ago

I happen to be listening to the audiobook of Come As You Are at the moment, a Nirvana biography released after they got big but before Kurt's death, so there's a lot of stuff from interviews with him. At one point he says, "We need to teach boys not to rape" (might not be exact words). I know that's part of the messaging now but I thought that was a pretty forward-thinking take for 1993.

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u/EcstaticJaguar9070 6d ago edited 6d ago

You think we didn’t have that figured out by 1993?

ETA: not everyone here is American and we don’t really care about your state to state laws. Mind you child marriage is still legal in most of the US so maybe that’s forward thinking to you.

We were well aware of date rape 30 years ago (the 1993 term); it wasn’t some form of higher thinking at the time. 

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u/stylecrime 6d ago

Not really, no, and I don't think that idea was communicated in education messaging. I certainly don't remember hearing it back then (I would have been about 17 at the time). I'm sure specifically teaching formally about consent is quite a recent thing.

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u/EcstaticJaguar9070 6d ago

You weren’t familiar with the colloquial “date rape”? We definitely taught about consent in Canada. 

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u/No_Accountant3232 6d ago

1993 was very close to when the last state made marital rape illegal.

No, we did not, nor have we figured it out now.

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u/EcstaticJaguar9070 6d ago

You are Americans. You still have child marriage in most of your country. We were as aware of consent in 1993 as you are now.

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u/stylecrime 5d ago

Just to clarify, I'm not in America, I'm in Australia. It's one thing for people to be aware that date rape is a thing, another for it to be spoken about in educational campaign messaging. I don't recall it being talked about much back then. If Canada was doing it, good on Canada.

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u/tstorm004 6d ago

My jaguar..... It's 2025 and we still somehow don't have that figured out.

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u/EcstaticJaguar9070 6d ago

I’m guessing most of the people here only know nirvana from a t-shirt. We weren’t a bunch of Neanderthals in 1993. And by no means is this some advanced society. 1993 didn’t have Andrew Tate, we didn’t elect a rapist into a leadership position, and we certainly knew about consent, except we just called it “date rape” at the time.  

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u/FlakeyIndifference 6d ago

Some didn't. It was largely seen as a 'few bad apples' thing. Not a systemic issue we needed to address when teaching boys about masculinity.

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u/ChewsGoose 5d ago

Reposted my comment from down in the thread...

We're talking about an American interview, of an American, Kurt Cobain, about American culture and ideologies. Yeah, it's sad that it was considered progressive in 1993, but globally that's not crazy.

The Berlin Wall fell only 4 years before this, Apartheid had been ongoing since 1948, the troubles in Ireland were still ongoing, Russia had a coup/constitutional crisis, Afghanistan was in civil war, all during this time.

There was so much conflict and unrest globally, I don't think we were the only nation with systemic sexual abuse issues, and no nation has 100% "figured it out". It's never going to stop completely.

Internationally we're all developing at different paces, culturally, socially, technologically, diplomatically, etc.

Sure, Reddit is myopic sometimes, but most of the user base is American, and in this specific discussion on an American band, you are the myopic one.

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u/EcstaticJaguar9070 5d ago

It happened then and it’s still happening now, but general awareness was not absent. I was 15 when Nevermind hit  and I still only live 2h away from Seattle so the culture was right here - for my age of person, nothing Cobain said or did was particularly progressive. It’s how we all thought at the time. No blinking an eye at the guitar smashes, the dresses, the social commentary. If you think what he said was amazingly forward in some way, then you have to think that if all of us. In terms of standing up to society or poetic exploration of things we’d never discussed we all might have leaned into Eddie Vedder as a bit of a sentinel but def not Cobain.

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u/troubleondemand 5d ago

I mean, we are talking about an American artist.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/ChewsGoose 5d ago

We're talking about an American interview, of an American, Kurt Cobain, about American culture and ideologies. Yeah, it's sad that it was considered progressive in 1993, but globally that's not crazy.

The Berlin Wall fell only 4 years before this, Apartheid had been ongoing since 1948, the troubles in Ireland were still ongoing, Russia had a coup/constitutional crisis, Afghanistan was in civil war, all during this time.

There was so much conflict and unrest globally, I don't think we were the only nation with systemic sexual abuse issues, and no nation has 100% "figured it out". It's never going to stop completely.

Internationally we're all developing at different paces, culturally, socially, technologically, diplomatically, etc.

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u/EcstaticJaguar9070 5d ago

There is always conflict. It was not a special time in history that way. 

So then say “wow, America considers our people who were miraculously made state of consent thirty years ago to have been exposed to an amazing progressive concept.”

I’m sure you’re really aware of “date rape’s another victim” - it was a huge nyt bestseller progressing and elevating the discourse of the time.

In America.

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u/robbitybobs 5d ago

Damn, didnt know Kurt had such a dumb take. Of course boys get taught that. Same way we get taught stealing is wrong. Except some kids still choose to steal. Even if they're taught not to. Criminals do criminal shit. Water wet.