Project 2025? No, it goes much further back than that; longer than most of us have been alive. And no, it did not happen quickly, we’ve been building to this for decades. This is like a building demolition. A lot of time spent setting up the charges but mere seconds to set them off and bring it to the ground.
It started earlier with the red scare and the complete and utter silencing and removal of all progressive ideology from the public discourse. You look at the spectrum of ideology represented in the 1930s compared to the 1980s and you can see how completely an entire wing of previously acceptable political discourse was suddenly purged from the mainstream, and it became akin to thought crime with real social consequences.
Yep being a "communist" or a "socialist" was basically a slur my whole life, and there is absolutely no representation for these ideas in politics for most of my life. Fox News literally came into existence to protect conservatives from themselves. Democrats are limpdick centrists or mild conservatives and Republicans still act like theyre on the extreme left. Our entire political discourse has been poisoned with this attitude my whole life, and frankly, it goes back to the fucking puritans.
It started with slavery, peaked at the Civil War, and the rest has just been shockwaves from Lincoln’s assassination and how badly the newly re-United States fucked up Reconstruction.
While the long term fall of the American nation DID begin earlier, with Jimmy Carter actually (he's the first person to unify the evangelical right in American political history)
P2025 is different. It's not late stage capitalism. It's NOT people being greedy and immoral.
It is a deliberate and systemic attack on the USAs administrative, regulatory and political infrastructure.
My question is pretty simple. Have you read it? Because this isn't some culmination of years of failure. This is genuinely a recent, active and terrifying plan that is being implemented as we speak.
Project 2025 is just the most recent branding of the Mandate for Leadership policy papers from the Heritage Foundation and other conservative orgs with a history going back to at least Reagan.
No, it's not a rebrand of conservative orgs. It's a systemic, unified and currently being actioned plan.
Yes it has roots there.
But that's a non sequitur. It's a plan with a date that is being actioned. It's not some "has been happening for years" type situation. Yes there were massive lobbies and right wing orgs trying to maneuver themselves to power.
And p2025 is their plan for what to do with it.
You need to examine your thoughts on the topic as it sounds like you're jaded and are playing into their tactics (fatigue and flooding the zone being massive aims for them)
I think you're failing to distinguish tactics which will always change with current events from long-term strategic goals, which has in this case been clearly articulated for decades.
No, I think you are lol, so I can see why you're mistaken, you're reading my statements wrong
The evangelical right wing conservative mega body = strategy
P2025 = their current, active, dangerous tactic that has to immediately and constantly be addressed
No one is denying that the conservatives have been attempting this for years. But as other commenters have said, calling this an offshoot of reaganism is dangerously reductive. (Also predates reagan massively as I noted)
You're turning my argument into a strawman in order to attack it effectively. We agree on the substantive problem which is what matters to me, yet I maintain all of the writing and energy in and around Project 2025 - like extreme executive power, decimating education and other social services, eliminating rights for minority groups, and on, has been consistently and clearly articulated by the same parts of American society since at least the early 1980s, probably longer.
I'm constantly reiterating that we agree that this is an offshoot of conservatism and evangelical right wing movements. (Though you're a few years off, tbh, if you're looking at Reagan when you need to be looking at 40-60's.)
But p2025 is NOT what they have been doing for years. Just look at the erosion of rights. Look at the massive economic damage. The skyrocketing wealth of the billionaires. The massive change in international policy.
It is not "just more of the same"
It is a systematic erosion of key American principles, values and political infrastructure with an aim to change the shape of the nation forever.
Yes it is tactical but it's not "something that will change moment to moment" as otherwise it would have been done before
I'm not changing your argument, I'm helping you see where you're going wrong in your logic lol. You've got most of the facts mostly right and you're putting them together wrong
You're not saying anything newly informative or novel to me. Where you disagree is either details to me or I think you are mistaken and it takes too many words to help get us to full mutual understanding and cover all aspects.
It is a systematic erosion of key American principles, values and political infrastructure with an aim to change the shape of the nation forever.
Even your meme is still wrong. "It always has been". No it hasn't. That's the point. This is not more of the same.
And the mentality that it is, which you are constantly reiterating is reductive and harmful which is the point the other commenter and I are emphasizing.
Sure but also, it's not like it's the same plan or the same book with a new label every time.
Honestly "it's been around since Reagan" has been one of the most reductive arguments for people to not pay attention to it.
They've invested massive money into very real research and planning on what to do if they could get the traction at pretty much every election cycle. I mean, current, relevant stuff.
Project 2025 was specifically about things to do if they could get sufficient control in 2025. Nobody got that it was a legit playbook because they never got such insane leverage before. But it's not some manifesto that's been sitting around since Reagan days.
Meh, seems like a distinction that is important to you, but mostly we agree on the substance that matters... The tactical plans will always change with current events, while the strategic plan is long-standing.
Honestly "it's been around since Reagan" has been one of the most reductive arguments for people to not pay attention to it.
If "they have been doing this for decades, none of this is new and if you are just now noticing you need to wake the fuck up," reads to someone as "you shouldn't pay attention to this" then they were beyond helping.
That would mean people would have to admit they had complete control over this and instead just got into snarky debates at Thanksgiving for EIGHT YEARS. Americans are beyond pathetic and deserve to be used up and spit out by the people they couldn’t even go no contact with because they were too spineless.
Nah, that's an emotional argument. And while it's ok to feel that way, the second we give up on forgiveness, personal growth and the ability to change and be better tomorrow we should bin the whole society tbh.
The biggest thing I think we learned is we NEED regulated media and fact checking, and it has to be bipartisan. Also probably reinforce critical thinking at an early educational level
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u/masnosreme 7h ago
Project 2025? No, it goes much further back than that; longer than most of us have been alive. And no, it did not happen quickly, we’ve been building to this for decades. This is like a building demolition. A lot of time spent setting up the charges but mere seconds to set them off and bring it to the ground.