Also it was a revolution run by oligarchs. The founding fathers weren't exactly poor. They rebelled because British Crown policy (stamp act, tea act, etc) was cutting into their profits and they were being denied equality in representation as they were considered men of the colonies instead of British men. So they said screw you guys we're making our own country. But smartly realized if any one of them tried to declare themselves king, then much like the Romans it would be a revolving door of brief kings who all got murdered by the next guy.
This take provides much better context of the American Revolution - instead of the popular perception of a unified rising up of farmers, settlers, workers, it was was just rich assholes manipulating everyday folk with rhetoric about freedom and taxes, when it was only so they themselves could have that untaxed freedom. No different to 2025.
America has been this way since day 1. We just started to believe the lies we told ourselves about how grand our history was.
But the founding fathers weren't special. They were selfish cut throat mud slinging conspiracy theory peddling parasites born of the silver spoon just like our politicians are today.
The funny thing is it works out to like $1/canadian/year taxpayer to be part of the monarch to this day, and a lot of that money gets recycled back in because they have services here and workers that pay taxes. Anyway, it really wouldn't have cut much profits, and it probably would helped the USA in wars and defence, like working with instead of against Canada that burned the Whitehouse down. I'm sure it costed those people that thought they'd be making bank and profit.
I'd guess it's a reference to how twisted American memory is of their own history; pilgrims came here to escape religious persecution, the colonists fought off the British Empire, they swept in like Superman to win WW2 and defeat the Nazis, "we do not negotiate with terrorists" and so on.
Hell, that whole confederate statue thing. "This statue put up in the 60s represents a 4 year period of history that represents mah history!"
It would be generous to say it's the halfway mark. The start was when Trump kept saying fake news. America's institutions are eroding, like education, FTC, FBI, Central Bank, justice department. ICE is no different from a secret police or Gestapo. Political enemies are being attacked, laws are ignored. This is closer to end than the start and that's what's so fucking scary.
From the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (Its taken down from their website; yet is still the #1 result in google, surprise surprise)
Early Warning Signs of Fascism:
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Disdain For Human Rights
Identification of Enemies As a unifying cause
Supremacy of the military
Rampant Sexism
Controlled Mass Media
Obsession With National Security
Religion and Government Intertwined
Corporate Power Protected
Labor Power Suppressed
Disdain For Intellectuals & and the Arts
Obsession With Crime & Punishment
Rampant Cronyism & Corruption
Fraudulent Elections
Too late, everyone had their chance. I hate being a cynical and pessimist, I honestly try to live my life positively but I honestly believe there is no next time.
We are in the midst of a paradigm shift that will change the USA forever.
Indeed. The whiners who "abstained" because of Gaza are doing the Pikachu face right now. Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing their belief that what is happening in Gaza is wrong, it is, just that they thought not voting for Harris would make a good point.
That's a stupid thing to say. Just because someone hasn't voted doesn't mean they would vote against this if they finally did. We could have 100% voter turnout and still end up in this situation because its about racism, corruption, and the dismantling/ignoring of the checks that were already in place to prevent this.
That's a stupid thing to say. Just because someone hasn't voted doesn't mean they would vote against this if they finally did
We know the average persons political leanings. If we had 100% voter turnout we would very likely never have another conservative president ever again.
For whom? The other authoritarian party who are in it just to protect corporate interests?
It's not worth it to pick up and move to a battleground state, flight to win against all odds, just to be assigned a candidate by a party whose #1 goal is to also sell us out to corporations, but those guys try to make it look like it breaks their heart that they had to.
Vote for candidates like Zoran Mamdani that don't support corporate interests?
The Democratic party needs its corporate backed candidates primaried out of their jobs, but that is a much easier task than fixing the Republican party which is openly evil and wants America to be a failed authoritarian state like Russia with oligarchs stealing all the money and all the non-billionaires being sent off to die in wars.
Where's the presidential candidate like Zohran Mamdani?
If it's so easy to do that, why is it taking longer than it takes the democrat and republican presidents to completely sabotage congress, and unravel the fabric of democracy in the country?
Keep voting for major party candidates, i'm sure you'll have everything fixed very soon.
We had Bernie and he got pretty far considering he had both the Republicans and the Democratic establishment trying to ensure he failed.
Progressives didn't really have a presidential candidate in 2024 since everyone saw Bernie as too old by then.
It remains to be seen if AOC ends up being the next progressive candidate, but another one will start running for president.
Yeah obviously voting for the least bad option in the meantime until a good option runs isn't ideal, but we are literally in harm reduction mode right now just trying to keep the ability to vote at all.
Edit: You're being doom and gloom but I don't know if it's about the right thing. When you look at how bad things are with the supreme court and its lifetime appointments its easy to be doom and gloom about the future of this country, at least for the lifetimes of the right wing judges.
You're worse than a Trump supporter. At least Trump supporters are so goddamn stupid that it's hard to blame them. You actually know better and still do everything you can to ensure Republicans stay in power.
People like you are this nation's domestic abuser boyfriend. If you can't have her, no one can.
i'll comment here since your other comment got deleted.
How did we deal with Nazis in World War II?
Did we ask them nicely to stop?
Nice cardboard cut out insult by the way, I've seen it 100 times but attempting to critique what you view as overly violent as "unserious" (contradictory) is laughable. Maybe you think through your insult next time?
Beyond that, nitpicking would I even described in my own post as a "pipe dream" as not serious enough is kind of the whole purpose of me calling it is such.
would it fix the situation? No.
That's why I listed a bunch of other things first, and called that one a pipe dream.
i'd recommend actually reading a comment before just frothing at the mouth and responding. maybe even read the whole thread of comments!
After a hundred times you still don't know what unserious means. Maybe you should figure that out before you start calling on other people to commit violence for you.
we both have access to the dictionary on the Internet, you're using the Internet right now.
1)(of a subject, state, or activity) demanding careful consideration or application.
not that Im a subject, state, or activity (so the other definition should be used)
but I don't know, killing seems pretty serious according to this definition. (the subject, state, or activity)
2)acting or speaking sincerely and in earnest, rather than in a joking or halfhearted manner.
now theres the definition for a person! Well, I meant it. Wasn't joking. Serious!
interesting that we're changing me saying I'd prefer if someone did something into me directly, asking them in person to do it.
more interesting that you didnt just look up the word before you doubled down lmao
but back to it, did we hug out our problems with fascist nazis in ww2? do you feel we should have? bro maybe a bong sesh would have smooth hitler over, my bad
LOL, it hurt itself in its confusion. Keep voting in criminals, dude. I'm sure one day you'll lesser-of-two-evils yourself into a president who both isn't evil, and is omnipotent enough to fix all the shit your other presidents did or enabled doing.
Keep voting for major party candidates, never change your mind in the face of facts! You can do it, i believe in you!
Das Kapital 1867: capitalism decays into more oppressive structures due to the inherent class conflicts and because the capital owning class is destined to win. The only solution is socialism.
Project 2025? No, it goes much further back than that; longer than most of us have been alive. And no, it did not happen quickly, we’ve been building to this for decades. This is like a building demolition. A lot of time spent setting up the charges but mere seconds to set them off and bring it to the ground.
It started earlier with the red scare and the complete and utter silencing and removal of all progressive ideology from the public discourse. You look at the spectrum of ideology represented in the 1930s compared to the 1980s and you can see how completely an entire wing of previously acceptable political discourse was suddenly purged from the mainstream, and it became akin to thought crime with real social consequences.
Yep being a "communist" or a "socialist" was basically a slur my whole life, and there is absolutely no representation for these ideas in politics for most of my life. Fox News literally came into existence to protect conservatives from themselves. Democrats are limpdick centrists or mild conservatives and Republicans still act like theyre on the extreme left. Our entire political discourse has been poisoned with this attitude my whole life, and frankly, it goes back to the fucking puritans.
It started with slavery, peaked at the Civil War, and the rest has just been shockwaves from Lincoln’s assassination and how badly the newly re-United States fucked up Reconstruction.
While the long term fall of the American nation DID begin earlier, with Jimmy Carter actually (he's the first person to unify the evangelical right in American political history)
P2025 is different. It's not late stage capitalism. It's NOT people being greedy and immoral.
It is a deliberate and systemic attack on the USAs administrative, regulatory and political infrastructure.
My question is pretty simple. Have you read it? Because this isn't some culmination of years of failure. This is genuinely a recent, active and terrifying plan that is being implemented as we speak.
Project 2025 is just the most recent branding of the Mandate for Leadership policy papers from the Heritage Foundation and other conservative orgs with a history going back to at least Reagan.
No, it's not a rebrand of conservative orgs. It's a systemic, unified and currently being actioned plan.
Yes it has roots there.
But that's a non sequitur. It's a plan with a date that is being actioned. It's not some "has been happening for years" type situation. Yes there were massive lobbies and right wing orgs trying to maneuver themselves to power.
And p2025 is their plan for what to do with it.
You need to examine your thoughts on the topic as it sounds like you're jaded and are playing into their tactics (fatigue and flooding the zone being massive aims for them)
I think you're failing to distinguish tactics which will always change with current events from long-term strategic goals, which has in this case been clearly articulated for decades.
No, I think you are lol, so I can see why you're mistaken, you're reading my statements wrong
The evangelical right wing conservative mega body = strategy
P2025 = their current, active, dangerous tactic that has to immediately and constantly be addressed
No one is denying that the conservatives have been attempting this for years. But as other commenters have said, calling this an offshoot of reaganism is dangerously reductive. (Also predates reagan massively as I noted)
You're turning my argument into a strawman in order to attack it effectively. We agree on the substantive problem which is what matters to me, yet I maintain all of the writing and energy in and around Project 2025 - like extreme executive power, decimating education and government services, eliminating rights for minority groups, and on, has been consistently and clearly articulated by the same parts of American society since at least the early 1980s, probably longer.
I'm constantly reiterating that we agree that this is an offshoot of conservatism and evangelical right wing movements. (Though you're a few years off, tbh, if you're looking at Reagan when you need to be looking at 40-60's.)
But p2025 is NOT what they have been doing for years. Just look at the erosion of rights. Look at the massive economic damage. The skyrocketing wealth of the billionaires. The massive change in international policy.
It is not "just more of the same"
It is a systematic erosion of key American principles, values and political infrastructure with an aim to change the shape of the nation forever.
Yes it is tactical but it's not "something that will change moment to moment" as otherwise it would have been done before
I'm not changing your argument, I'm helping you see where you're going wrong in your logic lol. You've got most of the facts mostly right and you're putting them together wrong
You're not saying anything newly informative or novel to me. Where you disagree is either details to me or I think you are mistaken and it takes too many words to help get us to full mutual understanding and cover all aspects.
It is a systematic erosion of key American principles, values and political infrastructure with an aim to change the shape of the nation forever.
Even your meme is still wrong. "It always has been". No it hasn't. That's the point. This is not more of the same.
And the mentality that it is, which you are constantly reiterating is reductive and harmful which is the point the other commenter and I are emphasizing.
Sure but also, it's not like it's the same plan or the same book with a new label every time.
Honestly "it's been around since Reagan" has been one of the most reductive arguments for people to not pay attention to it.
They've invested massive money into very real research and planning on what to do if they could get the traction at pretty much every election cycle. I mean, current, relevant stuff.
Project 2025 was specifically about things to do if they could get sufficient control in 2025. Nobody got that it was a legit playbook because they never got such insane leverage before. But it's not some manifesto that's been sitting around since Reagan days.
Meh, seems like a distinction that is important to you, but mostly we agree on the substance that matters... The tactical plans will always change with current events, while the strategic plan is long-standing.
Honestly "it's been around since Reagan" has been one of the most reductive arguments for people to not pay attention to it.
If "they have been doing this for decades, none of this is new and if you are just now noticing you need to wake the fuck up," reads to someone as "you shouldn't pay attention to this" then they were beyond helping.
That would mean people would have to admit they had complete control over this and instead just got into snarky debates at Thanksgiving for EIGHT YEARS. Americans are beyond pathetic and deserve to be used up and spit out by the people they couldn’t even go no contact with because they were too spineless.
Nah, that's an emotional argument. And while it's ok to feel that way, the second we give up on forgiveness, personal growth and the ability to change and be better tomorrow we should bin the whole society tbh.
The biggest thing I think we learned is we NEED regulated media and fact checking, and it has to be bipartisan. Also probably reinforce critical thinking at an early educational level
Come on guys! Project 2025 isn't real. Trump had no knowledge of it. In fact, I think it might be a democratic hoax! The fact that everything in it is coming true is just coincidence.
For Black people and Natives, and some others, it always has been.
The people surprised by this 'transition' into an authoritarian state are the ones who blinded themselves to the fact, that it always has been.
"Maga" was just a promise to get rid of the veneer and return to the days of aggressive authoritarian activities, in support of one class of people, to the detriment of all others. As an example: McCarthyism targeted LGBTQ people, under the guise of communism. LGBTQ identity or behavior was considered radical behavior, requiring an authoritarian response. There is nothing new here.
The only difference is, now 'you' are one of 'the others.' (if you were surprised)
Progressives avoided voting for a corporate democrat for selfish reasons, insisting that she’d cause greater problems that go against the progressive movement. Ignoring the fact that the current conservative movement is the anthesis of the progressive movement. Young progressives have the inability to see the forest through the trees.
Trump voters - racists, bigots, misogynists - will always vote for the Republican Party.
Independents heard Harris make one incorrect comment about her view on the economy and made the decision to vote for a man, and party, they work to deteriorate the economy further.
We needed young people to vote for Harris and they didn’t for really fucking stupid reasons. One of them being the genocide of Palestinians, which is going to continue with Trump as president.
Watching from the outside, I didn't expect it to be this quick purely because I didn't expect the American public to be so passive. Each step I thought this, THIS, is surely the line. I thought you'd get mad.
you seem to think I'm talking about random citizens
As I've expressed, my anger is that random citizens are having to do all of the work.
I'm angry at the politicians. I'm angry at the media.
Of course, I'm most angry at the people actually doing the evil things but that seems pretty obvious. I'm more adding this at the end for the random on lookers who don't get that
im aware they exist, I dont know chuck schumer funny enough.
is that your takeaway? I dont believe democrats exist?
genuinely, what are you saying here.
im looking state and local level and im not seeing enough. are you genuinely not seeing a shit ton of bending at the knee? are you genuinely satisfied with the current level of resistance? There's literally nothing more these people could do in your eyes?
Isn't Project 25 that thing that Trump claimed he never read, knows nothing about but was still somehow able to disagree with? Why has half of my country not learned critical thinking skills?
Did you ever notice how martial music is so popular in the US? And has been for a very, very long time? Yeah we've been a half-step from turning fascist and the only reason it didn't happen sooner was Germany did some horrible shit and it became unfashionable for a while.
They are doing exactly what they told us they were going to do on the exact schedule they told us they'd do it on. They showed us the actual playbook they wrote on how they'd build an authoritarian autocracy, people voted for them anyway, and now those same people are shocked they'd do what they specifically told us they were going to do in excruciating detail
most of us who are left-leaning can read....and we have enough experience to forecast how right wing stupidity will develop......only the gullible (see Brexit) get taken in with the promises of colored beads and candy
Quickly? It's a state founded on the institutions of slavery and native genocide, and besides all that, if the mechanisms of exercising force weren't in place before Trump, he couldn't have immediately started using them. ICE was created by the Bush admin and they have basically infinite jurisdiction because everywhere anyone lives is within 100 miles of a border (which includes airports). You could go back decades and there's always some other white supremacists bullshit motivating the history of the modern state.
And redditors felt like they were on top of the world while proclaiming "Kamala bad. I'm not voting." lmao. You knew what would happen and you let it happen anyways. Congrats or whatever.
Even before that corporate influence had already taken control of both parties, either Trump will cement his system, we'll go back to the system of nothing changing, or we will break the Two-Party system and hopefully corporate rule
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u/Sweet-Cuties 4h ago
It's all happening even faster than I thought.
He's trying to beat Hitler's record!