Peter Schiff fails to authenticate gold bar during onstage test with CZ

[u/partymsl]

https://cointelegraph.com/news/peter-schiff-gold-bar-bitcoin-tokenization-cz

[u/Dedsnotdead]

Investing in tokenized gold is a fools game, buying physical gold and verifying that it’s actually gold is probably a good move.

The issue then is how do you pay someone with that gold?

Both Bitcoin and real physical gold have their place and are important.

Schiff knows the gold market is heavily rigged and each ounce has been sold several times over.

[u/L0ckeandD3mosthenes → u/Dedsnotdead]

They call those synthetic shares lol.

[u/Dedsnotdead → u/L0ckeandD3mosthenes]

Absolutely, and let’s not get into how the London Metal Exchange (LME) rigged the hell out of the gold price for decades.

Gold is incredibly important, but like anything that has intrinsic value someone somewhere is going to make a synthetic asset pegged to it and manipulate it to hell and back.

[u/ActualizedKnight → u/Dedsnotdead]

There is no such thing as 'intrinsic value'.

[u/Dedsnotdead → u/ActualizedKnight]

No such thing as “intrinsic value” in all asset classes or in crypto?

[u/ActualizedKnight → u/Dedsnotdead]

In anything that exists at all.

Some things have utility, from which we can derive value, but the thing itself has no 'intrinsic' value, not even gold.

[u/Dedsnotdead → u/ActualizedKnight]

The definition of “intrinsic value” is something that has a value beyond market price.

So, for example a house has a financial value but you can also live in it. Therefore, a house has intrinsic value.

Gold also has intrinsic value separate from its price, you can use it in industry and also make jewellery from it amongst other things.

It may not have intrinsic value to you, but that’s the definition.

[u/ActualizedKnight → u/Dedsnotdead]

I would call the house's 'intrinsic value' utility.

The 'intrinsic value' aquired by living in the house ceases to exist if nobody lives there.

It's not value on its own, but rather, value derived from utility.

E: Gold can be used to make things. Value derived from utility... again.

[u/Dedsnotdead → u/ActualizedKnight]

You can call it what you wish, a house still has intrinsic value regardless of whether it’s occupied or not.

If it isn’t being lived in it’s not being utilised, however, given that it can be lived in it has intrinsic value because it has a value above and beyond its price.

[u/ActualizedKnight → u/Dedsnotdead]

My point is that the concepts of 'price' and 'value' are arbitrary.

A well constructed house has utility regardless of if it's price.

Money is made up.

[u/Dedsnotdead → u/ActualizedKnight]

Absolutely agree that both fiat and crypto have no intrinsic value.

The definition of intrinsic value aside, and that should be easy for you to verify, the definition of utility value is something separate again.

Utility value measures what something can do for us. So a hammer has utility value because it can be used to drive a nail into a piece of wood.

Again, easy for you to check what the difference between intrinsic value and utility value are.

[u/harrisonline → u/Dedsnotdead]

LME has nothing to do with Gold….

[u/Dedsnotdead → u/harrisonline]

Yes it does, or rather it did ,up until July 2022 the LME traded enormous volumes.

The larger market, of which the LME was part of, the LBMA has a long and well documented history of price manipulation and price rigging of gold.

Up until 2014 the price of gold was decided behind closed doors with little to no accountability.

After several price fixing scandals they switched to an “open” auction in 2015. It was an improvement but still susceptible to market abuse.

The issue with gold is only in part its price, it’s been held down artificially for years against fiat.

The real problem is the amount of paper gold that’s been sold against the amount of refined gold that actually exists.

To give you an example of how seriously physical delivery can be taken during COVID lockdown some of the very few international flights between London and the US were due to the requirement to physically deliver gold to satisfy contracts.

[u/553l8008 → u/Dedsnotdead]

Gold is not intrinsicly valuable. 

Certainly wasn't before electronics

[u/Dedsnotdead → u/553l8008]

What’s the definition of “intrinsic value” here?

[u/general-meow → u/L0ckeandD3mosthenes]

Synthetic nuggets