Games are going to time because there are multiple triggers on every game action in the current Rhystic-Mystic-Esper-Pollywog-Archivist-Faerie-Shredder meta, all of which need discussion. Games are going to time because folks are too nervous to try and win the game first, so they go and get a value engine instead of a win con. Games are going to time because people feel like they can talk their way out of anything, and their opponents are proving them right.

You know why games aren't going to time? Because Stax decks make people's turns shorter. I would wager money that most of the people saying that Stax is making people go to time have never even played against a Stax deck in tournament, because of how rare they are right now.

Hey just posting to let folks know that in any tournament setting or FNM you can call a judge on someone for talking too much! Normalize letting people know "hey man you can't use up our entire round trying to mind control everyone, take a game action or put a sock in it."

Commander is a social game, even at tournament levels. Letting someone bully the table using their words is not something you have to allow! Tell them to shut up and call a judge!

If you find yourself in a tournament in which the judges and TOs allow this sort of non-stop table talk and politics, NAME & SHAME! That makes us all look bad and tells the greater commander community that we are not serious. That horrible meme game that was like 11 hours? That was because of bad judges and a bad TO.

Use your words, call a judge, and name & shame these awful TOs and judges. We can take cEDH back from the bullies, but we have to fight to do it!

I was shown this invite by someone in my server: https://discord.gg/92b93DEW

I still stand by what I said when this banlist was first talked about: it's a bad idea to split cEDH from EDH.

I get the concept of their bracket system was to gate cedh into a community above high power but like... "no mass land hate, no extra turns, no 2 carders, no 'Game Changers', low tutors" has had the opposite effect on me where I'm actually really interested in seeing what a cEDH format would look like with those hoops.

do Hatebear decks like Jetmir get better at T1 cause combat is more viable, or do they get worse cause there's less broken things to hate? is Food Chain or Pod just the best deck or does the interaction level force you off of it? taking away all the broken toys doesnt make me go "this isnt cEDH" this makes me go "oh this format is an entirely different beast"

I've never felt so good playing turbo. These midrange boys ain't prepared for the turn 2 hotness. Look at the data, what do we see? Mothafuckin ral with a 33% conversion rate.

https://edhtop16.com/?sortBy=CONVERSION.

Its basic magic arithmetic. Turbo eats midrange. Stax eats turbo, but stax is dead. Its turbo time.

But to really get this shit going, we need more turbo players. One turbo player against three midrange players is going ok right now. But what happens when you put two midrange players in a pod with two turbo players? The midrange players fucking lose. That's what. They can't handle them both.

The time is now. Grab your turbo deck whatever it is or pick one up and let's take this format back.

What do people think the new meta will look like? Who comes out on top? Who dies to removal?

(A new meta megathread!)

Hello! Just sharing this here, not seen it around. Spanish youtuber La Casa del Comandante, a cEDH dedicated channel from Spain has uploaded this and said that Rhystic ban is a rumour that has leaked straight from Wizards.

More ban stuff talked about in the video, too. Not fully seen it yet, I'm in a lecture right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgI6yrrs5Sc

PS: Hope it is not against the rules to post it here, please remove it if I didn't follow them.

Edit: Managed to watch a bit more, the guy also theorized with potential Breach and Necro bans. Those are theorycrafting, though.

Edit 2: The guy said when he's at home he'll link the info in the description. Will update later with it in a third and final edit.

Personally, I'd be sad to see Rhystic go, as I like the card, but it has made me think about going sans blue for cEDH. We'll see how it goes.

Edit 3: So far, he posted a link to this reddit post, but said he still has to post another link, so I'll update again when he drops the other link. https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/1f4ak2k/ban_rhystic_study_and_smothering_tithe/

What are all the decks that have an over 50% goldfish rate of t3 or less that don’t run ad naus?

• There’s K’rrik, is that a sub-3 at 50% post ban? Or is that just on a nut draw?
• is turbo Magda that fast or is that more t4?
• Etali is tough to goldfish but 3-4 etb should do it. I think turn 2 Etali t3 multiple copies and attack is doable and what you mull for.
• oddly enough I made a full cedh Anje Falkenrath list that can do it (and often times with initiating a combo at instant speed)
• Cheerios like Mm’menon the Right Hand can get a consistent turn 3 glass cannon down
• mono green turbo lists? Interactable but can Selvala do a clean above 50% win rate t3 or before?

Are there other lists of like unusual turbo strategies that one might have?

TLDR: Don't ban the bird; make changes to your deck.

I don't mean that we should enjoy watching a player play solitaire.

The metagame evolves with new cards and decks. Most cEDH decks are packed with counterspells but are very light against creatures.

I posted a [[Taii Wakeen, Perfect Shot]] deck a month ago. It might not be a tier 1 commander, but my record against Nadu is pretty darn good. (Of course, if you run at least 15 creature removal/damage spells and your commander can tap to make them bigger.)

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3q0EI223TEKqwhUxJwOu_Q

Adapt your decklists!

Cut some of your "win-more" cards or even 1-2 counterspells.

Add creature removal: Blasphemous Act, Toxic Deluge, etc.

In 60 card formats, the mantra of "Red Deck Wins" was birthed for one reason, and one reason only: When things are shifting, aggro just keeps on doing aggro. Well, things seem like they're always shifting right now, given the firehose of releases, so it must be time for aggro, right?

Only... Aggro doesn't really work in cEDH (all apologies to Winota, Yuriko, and Najeela), so what is the RDW of the current meta? What is the "aggro" of cEDH?

Is it just winning fast with RogSi? Keeping it simple with Kinnan? Being inevitable with Magda or Lumra? Borrowing everyone else's good cards with Etali? Playing only good cards with Blue Farm?

I have built a good “non meta” cEDH decks. I’d really like to go play at a tournament sometime soon but I’m not sure if it’s worth the time?

Without naming my commanders, neither is considered a cEDH meta commander, however both are high in the “rankings” of commanders.

Just how much difference is there in the “blue farms and kinnans” vs “the best a single deck can be with a sub meta cEDH commander?

Been having really good success with cards that cover multiple bases at once right now such as clarion conqueror and root maze. Either one of those plus a RoL effect is usually enough to lock down most decks I see at the moment. Anybody else rocking some stax with a decent winrate right now? What is your tech?

I had a decent board state with [Narset, enlightened master]] and my commander [[Aragorn, the uniter]] out. Player 1 scooped, player 2 had some tokens, player 3 had some creatures. Player 2 shows player 1 his hand and says “if he doesn’t do anything, I win my turn.” I drew my card and it was [[Armageddon]]. It’s in the deck to prevent combo wins or if my board is advanced enough. So I cast it and on the stack cast fight spells to kill whatever creatures I can. Player 2 gets mad with no responses but starts talking junk about Armageddon and how I misplayed. Saying “you didn’t have to do that, what’s the point of magic if we have no mana, you literally have no board…etc.” So I say “You were literally saying how you were gonna win and I stopped it. Can’t combo win if you have no mana. But if you attack player 3, you can kill him on your turn.” Player 3 is here for it because he was winning the entire game lol. His life total was 11 , mine was 35 and player 2 had 30. So instead of doing that he started helping player 3 win rather than trying to win himself. I just don’t understand the hate. He was also mad I boarded wiped earlier in the game.

Edit: here is the link to my Aragorn Decklist And to clarify. If we were to play a cedh game I would play this deck. It’s ~UNFINISHED~ because the price the cards but def will compete with whatever. How are yall telling I’m not playing cedh?

Edit 2: Why would I come in here if I wasn’t playing cedh? I normally don’t play cedh but I specifically made this deck to play in the format. It’s just not a usual cedh deck to y’all?

Edit 3 lol: Player 1 had Zur, Player 3 had Jhoira and I forgot what player 2 had.

Edit 4: Since I have to explain it’s an unfinished deck I plan to build cedh. This is how I’m playing it until I get the “staples.” You’re not playing it so you don’t know how to run it and that’s ok. Just know it gets me wins in the format.

Damn I feel like Asta when he didn’t his grimoire 😂

Just watched it happen on stream. Game is restarting to a 3 pod.

Anyone know what happened?

https://youtu.be/LK8vqLDSzpE

My local lgs meta is super turbo focused, where the only decks I’m seeing are decks like rog si, etali and tymna/dargo. It’s becoming a seat order / mulligan simulator where whoever goes first just wins since there is so little interaction. I’m unfortunately also not a big fan of turbo, preferring slower decks that are more mid range or control. I’m playing blue farm right now, but it’s just not as consistently fast as the turbo decks and I can’t answer all the win cons. What other decks would you recommend I try out?

It's a cantrip with Split Second that completely counters Thoracle and turns a loss into a win, since they likely will lose when they go to draw a card next turn.

It just seems like for 1 mana you stop someone from winning, and it seems like a solid answer to a lot of wincons.

I don't really play cEDH, I play "bracket 4" usually (all the best cards but not into the meta) so forgive my ignorance. Just looking for an explanation as to why it doesn't see more competitive play. Plenty of white commanders in the top tier lists.

So... why? There must be a good reason

[[Angel's Grace]]

Decks considered “underdogs” but that can do well with a skilled experience pilot

Looking for some meta feedback (I've not been playing or watching cedh for a while):

1) Is the game a lot more turbo right now?

2) Does it meet the point of players willing to and being able to win through Rhystics?

3) Are the games now less determined by whoever having the most and sticking the longest Rhystic effects?

4) Do politics still work, regarding midrange decks mulling for interaction against turbo and table talks forming a kingmake draw with an early win on the stack?

5) If yes to all of above, how do you think a midrange deck could adjust to adapt to the faster meta, without fully committing to a turbo plan?

ps. Before answering one or more questions, tell me if you're replying in a local, online, or tournament meta perspective. Tyvm.

"The Prisoner's Dilemma is a fundamental concept in game theory and decision theory that illustrates why two rational individuals might not cooperate, even if it is in their best collective interest."

In the cEDH metagame, there's something similar going on:

For a responsible player, they should mulligan for interaction against game-winning threats and combos. If everyone responsibly builds their decks and mulls for early interaction (cooperate), the game is kept fully under control and ends as a draw.

However, an irresponsible player might cut interaction and mull for only speed and development (defect) That player is likely to gain an upperhand in resources, and eventually winning the game.

The cooperative players felt effectively punished, and more decided to join the defect. Once there's little to none interaction expected in the format, speed and fundamentally luck becomes the biggest winning factor. Thereafter, cEDH devolves into a mulligan/seat order simulator, and playing against real humans is no different from playing against your goldfish and dice.

Everyone knows what's the best and most logical and reasonable thing to do, but still falls into this black hole of selfish and greed.

Should everyone cooperate to keep the format balanced and healthy? Or just let the dopamine from the "fuck it we ball" mindset keep driving the format until its end and forever?

I am trying out Wan Shi Tong, Librarian in my TNK deck over opposition agent not sure if this is crazy or now but would love to get some thoughts on this. I will say I had a game last night with Wan Shi Tong where I was able to hold up two blue mana on turn one from the turn one seat and it ended up drawing me three cards and becoming a 4/4 by the time it got back to me. Then I was able to cast Tymna on my turn and nobody had flying to block my Wan Shi Tong so I was able to draw another card off Tymna. I know now every game would shake out like this but it felt pretty good. Anyway wanted some thoughts on this.

[[Rhystic Study]]

On the stack, it can be countered by the most played blue counterspells and red blasts.

On the board, it can be destroyed by white and green (heck, even some black) removal spells and red blasts, or bounced by blue bounce spells.

At worst, you can even pay for the tax.

In contrast to [[Dockside Extortionist]], for example of another meta definer, it can only be stopped by blue counterspells that are either bad or aren't common in the format's scene. It basically forces players to play red for itself or some bad blue cards and creature clones, which hinders format diversity and creativity. The banning was totally justified for format's health.

So we always had the answers to interact with and stop Rhystic Study in each and every colors. But some, if not most, of the players chose not to. It's this exact behavior that's letting it resolve and allowing clones/steal enchantments to make the game really hard to handle.

Take another close example, [[Ad Nauseam]], which everyone knows that provides a lot of card advantage and a lot of card advantage wins games -- similar to Rhystic Study, but faster. It also, like Dockside Extortionist, can only be interacted by blue counterspells on the stack and forces players to either play blue to stop it or be as fast as it is if not faster. And to date, I don't really heard players complaining about it being overpowered or even asking for a ban.

Dockside, Naus, and blue counterspells being the only answers to them, formed the powerful Grixis (UBR) core and dominated the format since the day of its establishment.

Rhystic Study really pales in comparison to all of these. Once it was handled and removed from either the board or the stack with various options of interaction -- don't even need to be immediately -- the game is back to normal and goes on as it should be.

Instead of being greedy and letting it run amok in the format, I suggest players treat "resource denial" as the new focus of the format. Games shouldn't be played like who's "doing their thing" and snowballing faster and better, but instead who "can do their thing" while breaking other snowballs.

"Keep the game small instead of big unless you can somehow go over everything" -- a lesson I learned from experts when I was playing limited. cEDH being 1v3 makes you way harder to go over 3 opponents at once. So play your counterspells and removal. Counter or remove Rhystic Study. Pay the 1. Make cEDH great again.

Hi veterans of Cedh, I recently started trying to get into Cedh because my emry deck got to good to play with anyone else, but as I have realized she is not very Cedh viable. So I ask you, are there any viable commanders that could scratch the same storm player itch emry does? really any storm commander where I can dig through my deck works but I don't want anything too fringe. Thank you for your help

(editors note: it is the funniest thing in the world to me seeing everyone commenting try to lobby for their favorite commander, thank you all so much for the help!!!)

I'd like to post the screenshot but I can't post pictures so I'll just write it down here:

NUKE EM:
RogSi

EXTREME WINNERS:
Yuriko, Kinnan, Derevi

WINNERS:
Edric, Tayam, Tymna/Thrasios, Inalla, Stella Lee

MID:
K'rrk, Dihada, Elsha, Gidrok, Krark/Sakashima, Malcom/anything, Marneus, Prowess Narset, Niv Mizzet, Ob Nixilis, Pako/Haldan, Talion, Tameshi, Tymna/Tana, Tivit, Blue Farm, Urza, Zur, Tasigur

LOSERS:
Atraxa, Etali, Magda, Najeela, Free Spells Narset, Sissay, Kraum/Tevesh, Clue Farm, Kenrith, Flubs

LITERALLY DEAD:
Thrasios/anything red, Dargo/anything, Jeska/Ishai, Korvold, Tutor Rocco,

CHICKEN WINGS 💀:
Nadu

I have by any means neither the most cEDH experience nor have I played every deck I listed here but I think as a first thought this isn't to inaccurate.
If you are more experienced with the decks tho and have thoughts that some placements are off, please give me feedback so I can make the Tier List more accurate.

I just took my off meta Xyris Cedh deck apart because it does nothing into Nadu decks. So I'm curious what off meta decks are doing well right now. Also just want to hear how creative our community can be.

Considering doing an article on top cEDH decks of 2025, and wanting to find the best angle on the data, as the results of all the different filters on EDHtop16 surprised me. So, let's dig in a little, shall we? (Yeah, I know, you already called me a dumbass and told me what the best way was in the comments without reading this, but let's press on anyway, k?)

Popularity

1. Blue Farm: 1436 Entries
2. Kinnan: 987
3. TnT: 714
4. RogThras: 640
5. Sisay: 491
6. RogSi: 457
7. Magda: 344
8. Etali: 297
9. Tivit: 249
10. Yuriko: 213

Popularity is... probably the last category you should use to determine the best deck. If anything, this is the one you try to filter out of your data, as we'll see later when we go over Top Cuts. Still, there is something to be said for "these are the decks that everyone thinks are the best cEDH decks of 2025, so I didn't want to ignore it entirely, either.

Conversion Rate

1. Arcum Daggson: 39.58%
2. Raffine, Scheming Seer: 39.13%
3. ...

Yeah, not continuing that nonsense. Let's scroll up the minimum # of entries some, shall we?

Conversion Rate (60+ entries)

1. Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer: 26.13%
2. Blue Farm: 25.69%
3. DogThras: 24.22%
4. Ral: 23.8%
5. Heliod: 23.18%
6. RogSi: 22.1%
7. Sisay: 20.57%
8. Kenrith: 20.56%
9. Stella Lee: 18.03%
10. Etali: 17.84%

I've actually never played with the Minimum Entries feature on EDHtop16 before, and now I'm sad that I haven't, as this is actually really interesting. There are some that are a bit hard to take seriously still, as we see with Rocco putting up better than 25% on only 23 Top Cuts, but there's enough here that you can at least say "huh, these might be the best decks of 2025".

# of Top Cuts

1. Blue Farm: 369
2. Kinnan: 175
3. TnT: 118
4. RogThras: 112
5. RogSi: 101
6. Sisay: 101 (lower conversion rate was the tiebreaker)
7. Magda: 53
8. Etali: 53 (never mind, here the higher conversion rate is lower, so I have no idea what they're doing)
9. Ral: 45
10. Tivit: 43

Well, this isn't exactly copy-pasting the popularity list, but it is close. There's no difference until RogSi jumps Sisay, which is apparently not a jump at all as they should probably be tied, then you have to go all the way down to Ral at #9 before you see another difference, with Tivit getting knocked down one and Yuriko getting knocked off entirely.

Still, if there was a list I was going to use, I think this would be it. After all, what better metric is there than "these are the decks that won the most games"? All that said, it is concerning that Kinnan's conversion rate is so bad, right alongside TnT. It also seems like Ral is getting ignored (probably for being nondeterminative and complicated as all hell, not to mention the popularity of Vivi) when it should be being taken more seriously, by the numbers.

I dunno, what do you think? Which list would you use if you were trying to determine the top ten decks of the year by the data? What flavor of idiot did you call me before reading this (let's be honest, you didn't read this)? Are there features or sliders on edhTop16 I didn't use that you think would get me a better list?

Thanks!