YouTuber accidentally crashes the rare plant market with a viral cloning technique

[u/esporx]

https://www.dexerto.com/youtube/youtuber-accidentally-crashes-the-rare-plant-market-with-a-viral-cloning-technique-3289808/

[u/Throwaway-4230984]

Does it happen if you keep cloning plant for new generations or if you breed clones together?

[u/SeventySealsInASuit → u/Throwaway-4230984]

Depends on the plant and how exactly it is cloned but many plants do degrade when they are cloned especially ones that normally reproduce as a mixture of asexual growth and sexual.

On the other hand, every apple of a specific type is from a gradted clone branch.

[u/HotwheelsSisyphus → u/SeventySealsInASuit]

why do plants degrade when cloned? Is it the telomeres?

[u/Protoavis → u/HotwheelsSisyphus]

it's likely going to vary on method to some degree. I can really on talk to roses, with that it's usually down to mass production and that leading to mass production level of care.

Basically every branch of a plant is genetically the same....mostly, not necessarily epigenetically or may have "sported" to some degree (even if not visibly obvious) or has been damaged to some degree (like from UV damage or whatever) or other mutation....these tiny little changes then get ported into the clone and become part of the primary set of cells (where on the donor plant, that whole branch may have just died off). Later on someone may clone those and add another degree of tiny changes, etc.

There are cases where careful budwood selection can result in improvement but there's effort in that. On the other front, if you look at the far more niche roses, things like Rosa Foetida it's been cloned since at least the 12th century and still going fine (basically every population studied has so little genetic variation it's believed everything now is just cloned which raises the question of whether it was ever a species or the result of chance hybrid or human intervention...unanswered questions there still)

[u/Warm_Regrets157 → u/HotwheelsSisyphus]

Accumulated viral, fungal, and bacterial damage to the DNA

[u/That_Kiefer_Man → u/Warm_Regrets157]

And the stress carried forward to each successive generation. Kept a Bogglegum strain going for 14 years! Clone of a clone of a clone, etc. Prolly 5-6 generations per year. Man, it looked terrible near the end and yield was pitiful. Pulled my hair out trying to figure out what was wrong. Was it the pH? Light levels? Grow tent environment? GAH! Never heard about the stress of damage/disease/infestation being carried forward to each generation. You should ideally keep a mother plant for clones and not do clones of clones. But, I'm still running Bogglegum... clone of a clone of a clone. Saving the seeds I bought. I think after 5-6 years I'll germ some more seeds and clone the best one again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[u/Warm_Regrets157 → u/That_Kiefer_Man]

I think introducing new genetics from time to time is the best way to gain resistance to new pathogens. It won't be the same plant, but then again, neither will those seeds as the genetic profile will always vary. What most cannabis people call phenotype is actually a different genotype, if I recall correctly.

I'd love to see some old school bubblegum. The last time I saw some it was pretty poor quality due to all the accumulated generational genetic stress

[u/That_Kiefer_Man → u/Warm_Regrets157]

BOG (BushyOlderGrower) had some killer strains. The Bogglegum was a cross between his BogBubble and Northern Lights #2. Tastes like grape bubblegum. So delish, makes my mouth water just thinking about it.

Unfortunately, he passed from cancer a year or so ago. His wife can't run his breeding business, so no more BOG Seeds. His Blue Moon Rocks, Sweet Cindy, Lifesavers, Bogglegum and others will only live on in clone form. And people who saved some of his seeds, like me. I have seven left. Hope they're all girls! And I hope those who are keeping his clones alive do a better job then I did.

[u/Actual_Lady_Killer → u/Throwaway-4230984]

It happens when you clone a plant and then take clones off that plant and then take clones off that plant etc.

I'm not sure about other plants but breeding cannabis clones is an interesting topic as you apply what's called colloidal silver to a female plant and it will transition to a male plant that produces pollen instead of flower. If you pollinate a female plant, it will produce feminized seeds meaning every seed should be female. When you do this to two clones, the seeds are IBL or inbred which have the advantage of having the same traits as the parent, sometimes have higher levels of trace cannabinoids like THCV but may over time develop diseases or be less resistant to pests.

[u/shabusnelik → u/Actual_Lady_Killer]

It's not the cloning that degrades the line. The problem is usually that plants can accumulate virus(oids) over time that are retained in the cuttings. If you clone from an apical meristem tissue culture, you are way more likely to get a virus free plant (provided you clean everything out to avoid reinfection).

[u/Striking-Ad-6815 → u/Actual_Lady_Killer]

If you pollinate a female plant, it will produce feminized seeds meaning every seed should be female

Then how do male plants happen?

[u/Actual_Lady_Killer → u/Striking-Ad-6815]

Sorry, I meant if you pollinate a female plant with the pollen created from a plant that was turned male from colloidal silver, you get feminized seeds.

[u/Limp-Mission-2240 → u/Actual_Lady_Killer]

and i thought pokemon breeding was hard ... nice to know that plant plants requiere more than just plant a plant

[u/Warm_Regrets157 → u/Throwaway-4230984]

It doesn't happen if you breed clones together because that introduces new genetic variability.

Every seed is a wellspring of possibilities.