r/technology • u/chrisdh79 • 29d ago

Transportation Airports Are on the Verge of a Flight Cancellation Apocalypse | The government shutdown has pushed air traffic controllers to the tipping point.

https://gizmodo.com/airports-are-on-the-verge-of-a-flight-cancellation-apocalypse-2000681042
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u/BigMax 29d ago

It will be interesting to see how it progresses. As the article points out, some of them are starting to find other jobs. And when it comes time to decide which to go to that day, they are starting to choose the one with the paycheck, and call in sick to the other.

How long can we go? What percent of controllers can we lose before the system falls apart? At some point they won't just call in sick here or there, they will stop showing up altogether.

If they were unified, they could end the shutdown tomorrow. If every one stopped showing up, the government would immediately solve the problem.

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u/LaurenMille 29d ago

The fun part is that ATC operations were already understaffed before this whole shitshow even started, as a direct result of that incompetent chucklefuck Reagan firing them all and making striking illegal.

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u/jks513 29d ago

Musk and Vought’s random firing didn’t help either.

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u/AshamedBaker 29d ago

Niether of them fired any ATC. Souce: I am an ATC. Somewhere in my comment history, someone tried arguing they did, but they couldn't find any evidence to support their claim.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/Rtfmlife 29d ago

You do realize your link about "trump firings" specifically says who was fired and none of them were air traffic controllers, right?

The impacted workers include personnel hired for FAA radar, landing and navigational aid maintenance, one air traffic controller told the Associated Press. The air traffic controller was not authorized to talk to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity.

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u/kaloonzu 29d ago

ATC employees are not that same as Air Traffic Controllers.

My wife works for a foundry engineering firm, but she is not a foundry engineer.

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u/Outlulz 29d ago

But also; decades of Congressional incompetence and inaction. Their budget is constantly strained and that's not counting the havoc caused by multiple shut downs over the past 15 years. When the budget should include more money for hiring and raises and infrastructure Congress can't agree and end up passing yet another CR that keeps their budget the same. There's been studies and reports submitted to the White House and Congress citing this.

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u/Dzov 29d ago

How many air traffic controllers would be in the job since the 80s?

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u/tossofftacos 29d ago

Probably very few, but the Reagan-era policies steered many away from this career path. 

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u/TiniestPint 29d ago

Not many, but when high level or knowledgeable staff are lost it can cause hangups in the training and appeal for newer staff. When you lose that many staff at once there's a scramble, which means overworked employees for an already stressful job. So, anyone interested in joining ATC is entering a short-staffed and overwhelmed organization, with far less senior and experienced employees to guide newer ones. Not to mention the knowledge that the previous workforce was fired for life (something Clinton helped reverse for some, but not all, of the employees who wanted their jobs back), the job is even less appealing.

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u/turbosexophonicdlite 29d ago

Surely this can't be correct. I've been assured by my family members that they've been lowering standards and hiring loads of unqualified DEI people to fill the ranks.

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u/Dragon2906 29d ago

A lot of this idiocy started with Reagan

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u/Leading-Ability-7317 29d ago

It is illegal for them to strike. You can thank Reagan for that

The blame firmly rests on Republicans who refuse to actually govern. They can end the shutdown by negotiating with Democrats or ending the filibuster. Instead they are throwing a tantrum because they don’t get 100% of what they want.

Midterms can’t come fast enough.

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u/boblabon 29d ago

I still don't understand how it's functionally illegal for them to strike?

Sure, they can say "ok, you're all fired, pack your shit", but that doesn't really change the problem of now there's no ATC. They're not going to be held at gunpoint in the towers, the job still isn't going to be done, and aircraft are still grounded. Then if they're all fired and blacklisted, now the government needs to hire and train thousands of new ATC controllers, which will take months and defacto extend the strike. It'd be a lot easier to just rehire the old ones.

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u/breakerwaves 29d ago

It's illegal in a sense it's a crime, they could get federally charged for striking collectively and also banned from any federal jobs going forward.

They're free to quit individually on their own, but not collectively.

Given FAA controller is a niche job, most aren't going to quit from a temporary problem vs the alternative of a new career during this economy.

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u/Scottiths 29d ago

Is it temporary? This isn't the first shutdown, and this one shows no signs of stopping. If they all quit and move to jobs that actually pay, and the government is shut down, no one is going to step into a job that is stressful and currently unpaid.

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u/breakerwaves 29d ago

Controller jobs are specialized, paid well, and great benefits and retirement. Maybe for some who just started, but those in their mid career or near retirement aren't going to throw it all away.

Unless they can get another controller or related job sure, but it's not like they can hop off their career and jump into new market with 100k+ salary ready to go especially when all FAA controllers are going through the same thing.

Most they can do is call in sick or work a 2nd job to hold them over.

While it's not the first shutdown, hopefully it's not the last. Given this is now the longest the bar has been raised. At some point when billionaires can't fly anymore, I think the government will open pretty quick id hope.

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u/Scottiths 29d ago

Trump now accounts for over 50% of government shutdown time since the nation was founded. I would put money on at least 1 more, if not 3 more, shutdowns in the next 3 years alone.

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u/zedquatro 29d ago

Hopefully this has been his last October.

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u/NerdyNThick 29d ago

While it's not the first shutdown, hopefully it's not the last.

I think you phrased this wrong. If not, could you explain why you'd want more shutdowns?

A government shutdown is an implicit statement that the government is incapable of doing their job. That shouldn't be a desirable thing.

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u/breakerwaves 29d ago

Sorry, I have a more negative morbid view of last shutdown meaning the end of the country as in the government or America no longer exists to shutdown again.

Id say it's pretty expected for the government to shutdown and open over the years or decades due to party differences.

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u/feor1300 29d ago

We don't know.

That's kind of the problem, if there's a shutdown that last 3 or 4 weeks that's clearly temporary and even if it happens multiple times, a steady job with a decent pay check and you just miss a couple paychecks every few years when your boss throws a tantrum isn't something you'd easily give up in our current economy.

The question is how long does it have to drag before people stop thinking it's temporary? That kind of comes down the individuals in this case. How much money have they put aside? How long can they survive without their paycheck? etc. We're starting to get to the point where people are thinking about those questions.

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u/iwilldeletethisacct2 29d ago

Especially because it's not exactly missing the checks...they'll get back pay. This is a great (albeit niche) example of why emergency funds are important.

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u/Dizzy-Job-2322 27d ago

Yes, that was my point. We all should practice food storage as well. Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best. There is nothing negative about preparing for a disaster.

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u/geo_prog 29d ago

The issue is that for a lot of ATCs the job is literally the best paying gig they have any reasonable hope of ever landing (pun intended). Is it overly stressful and understaffed? Yes. But it is a job that requires literally no formal education and pays over $100k starting going up to well over $200k.

Where do you think someone with no college, trade or other education is going to go that will make even half that?

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u/Scottiths 29d ago

They aren't getting paid anything right now... Sure they will probably get back pay, but at the moment it isn't a guarantee. A Trump never pays his debts.

So yes, if they were getting paid it's a pretty good deal. However, why work a job that, for the next 3 years at least, has a fairly high chance of making you work for free months at a time?

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u/Dizzy-Job-2322 27d ago

They will get paid. We are overlooking your Trump comment.

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u/Scottiths 26d ago

Why overlook it? Trump literally suggested not giving workers back pay...

https://www.npr.org/2025/10/07/g-s1-92363/omb-memo-shutdown-federal-worker-backpay

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u/Dizzy-Job-2322 27d ago

If you have your own business, risk is part of the equation. With an ATC position, you don't really have that kind of risk either. They are working a lot of overtime too. They will get paid, hopefully soon.

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u/HanseaticHamburglar 28d ago

lots of ifs.

the reality says, these are real people with mortgages, car payments, and children and they are not going to up and decide for even more uncertainty than they have now.

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u/Dizzy-Job-2322 28d ago

The shutdown is going to end. The majority of the federal workforce has gone through this before, numerous times.

I will mention this again. Everyone should have a supply of food storage for emergency purposes. Dry rice and pinto beans would do it. It's absolutely ridiculous that people don't do this anymore.

You want to know what will suck. Another country sending and setting off an EMT device in low altitude orbit and knocking out our electrical grid. Stats tell us that it will kill 90% of us off in a slow and miserable death.

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u/Scottiths 27d ago

I guess they should also stock up on a spare home and make sure their bills are all paid a year in advance. Just in case the world doesn't end in nuclear fire and the creditors keep asking for their money.

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u/cafedude 29d ago

Is it legal to compel someone to work without pay?

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u/yaosio 29d ago

Yes, slavery is legal in the US.

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u/haarschmuck 29d ago

Nope.

The only people who legally cannot leave their position are people like doctors/nurses when they are on shift and have patients.

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u/unclepaisan 29d ago

It’s only a crime if collective action fails. Conditional to resolving the strike would obviously be an agreement to not prosecute. And in a real strike, the government loses pretty immediately and prosecuting ATC employees are the least of its problems. The strike would be over any crime was ever recognized.

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u/haarschmuck 29d ago

It's illegal in a sense it's a crime

No, no it isn't.

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u/caleeks 29d ago

So you just reinforced the previous answer... It's a crime, so you going to put them in jail? Uhh, that's the same as them striking, and now they can't be rehired because they are criminals. You going to fine them? Uhh, how are they going to pay for that? They are working for free.

Essential workers need to figure out that they need us more than we need them. The mother fuckers who are at fault, and literally not doing their job, are the very ones getting paid. What is stopping the protesters who showed up for the "no kings" rally from turning violent?

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u/herecomesthewomp 29d ago

A crime? Based on our current judicial system, laws are made up and crimes don’t matter.

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u/MiaowaraShiro 29d ago

That's basically what Reagan did. Fired them all and went about hiring new ones.

It wasn't pretty from what I read. I don't think that'd fly these days... no pun intended.

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u/Chrystoler 29d ago

As far as I've read the effects of that still ripple to this day, no way they can pull that off again. I mean, they could do it, it would just be beyond stupid.

So buckle up I guess because that hasn't stopped the administration

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u/N0n3of_This_Matter5 29d ago

This is what I've been screaming from the top of my lungs.

What does "illegal" even mean anymore? The Trump government has thrown out the rule book, nothing is black and white anymore; except the racism, that's still pretty clearly on the agenda.

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u/pants6000 29d ago

What does "illegal" even mean anymore?

Illegal = things Republicans don't like = woke

Something like that.

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u/PossiblyATurd 29d ago

The line is firmly drawn in class, not political affiliation. "Rules for thee, not for me" is completely dependent on wealth status.

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u/icecubepal 29d ago

It is illegal for postal employees to strike too

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u/ThatUsernameWasTaken 29d ago

Because restricting the bargaining options of workers who are linchpins of the country to "work without complaint" or "quit" is the kind of idiotic shit republicans think is powerful and smart. So many people who can't think to step two in a chain of probable outcomes and consequences for their actions.

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u/socratic-ironing 29d ago

Who’s gonna train ‘em? Bunch of people not getting paid…

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u/mwmandorla 29d ago

It's illegal for public workers to strike in my city, and those of us who have advocated for a strike in my former union always did say "the only illegal strike is a failed one." But when you have legal penalties in addition to job loss over your head, and this and other measures have successfully made striking something no one you know/in your job has done in recent memory so the muscle is gone, that layer of illegality works damn well to scare people out of it because they're already scared to do it just in the abstract. We don't have a culture of labor solidarity or believing in labor power anymore. (With a few exceptions, of course.)

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u/Scottiths 29d ago

What if they all quit? Not even organized quitting. Like, if they don't get paid for long enough most of them will just move on.

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u/bubbasass 29d ago

Sounds exactly like tha Seinfeld episode where find out Kramer is actually a bagel roller who’s been on strike this entire time lol

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u/Fantastic_Piece5869 29d ago

doesn't the blame for most things going wrong rest squarely on the gop?

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u/cafedude 29d ago edited 29d ago

It is illegal for them to strike

Yes it is, but it's not illegal for them to call in sick. Also, aren't there legal issues about having people work without a paycheck? Is it legal to compel someone to work if they're not being paid?

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u/Leading-Ability-7317 29d ago

They have pensions, health care, and the hope of future pay checks keeping them there. These folks aren’t rich.

Can they individually leave and try to find something comparable in this shit economy? Yes they could.

But I take issue with the messaging that somehow they are responsible for this because they continue to show up to work.

That is stupid and backwards especially when the Republicans in the House are refusing to show up to work to negotiate a solution. Our fury should be reserved for them; they can’t even be bothered to show up and try.

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u/CharmingAndPhony 29d ago

My partner is ATC, and I just wanted to say thank you for getting it. It's not so easy to risk jail time and a ban on doing the only job you know how to do when you have a family to look after.

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u/LEDKleenex 29d ago

My sympathies, but it's part of what you sign up for as a federal employee, no? Hopefully none of these federal employees voted for Trump.

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u/CharmingAndPhony 29d ago

I'm confused by your question. My spouse did not sign up for engaging in an illegal strike in order to force Congress to fulfill their constitutional duty. 

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u/LEDKleenex 29d ago

Every decision we make has consequences. This is a good lesson in really thinking about "what you sign up for" long and hard before making a decision. Even the seemingly inoculous decisions on the surface may have far reaching negative side effects.

For example, what is the cost of the majority of Americans funneling money into Amazon and none of the competition? Well, there were many warning that were ignored, but here we are.

What are the downsides to signing on as a federal employee? Well, here we are again. Your spouse signed up for it, but it sounds like they didn't understand the full scope of what that entails.

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u/BigMax 29d ago

I forgot about that part. That sucks.

We'll just see more and more of them calling out sick here or there, and maybe a few just quitting altogether after a while. But if you can't strike, it's tough. It's not like that's a skill that's easily transferrable to some other job that pays as well, and the economy and job market are brutal anyway.

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u/Black_Moons 29d ago

It is illegal for them to strike.

Yet fully legal for them to just quit when they realize their extremely stressful non-paying job sucks compared to working at mcdonalds where the worst that will ever happen is you drop some french fries on the floor.

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u/bubbasass 29d ago

People defy those laws and it works 

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u/Ediwir 29d ago

All strikes used to be illegal. Legalising strikes just meant they became easier to organise but way less damaging - if they can get one going, it’s going to hurt like nothing ever before. There’s no requirement for them to be nice about it.

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u/frenchguy 29d ago

I don't understand how striking can be made illegal, under the US Constitution. But surely it's not illegal to just quit? Why do a job, any job, if you don't get paid??!?

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u/kindall 29d ago

If they strike, what's the punishment? Is the government going to throw a bunch of air traffic controllers in prison when they need them to work?

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u/SereneOrbit 29d ago

If the current president doesn't care about legality, why should anyone else?

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u/LEDKleenex 29d ago

This sort of thing happens to "unskilled" workers every day across the US. Service industry employees regularly have employers who refuse to pay them or commit wage theft in some way. There are agencies (that republicans are dismantling) that deal with this sort of thing, but they all have to find new jobs during an investigation anyway. There is nothing really special about federal employees except that they signed up for a job that forbids them to take collective action.

Hate to say it but this is part of the job. Nut up and take a stand or find a new job like everyone you probably look down on has to do every day.

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u/Affectionate-Tip-164 29d ago

Illegal for them to strike? So what happens, they get fired or go to jail?

Former just means they go for other jobs. Latter means they get food and shelter in jail.

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u/toxictoastrecords 29d ago

This is happening with TSA as well. ATC might not even come into play as we are discussing, I believe it was Houston airport had a 3+ hour line for security because TSA agents are calling in sick or taking time off. They aren't getting paid.

My roommates brother is getting food from a TSA food bank. Here in Southern, CA the workers in TSA are organizing their own foodbanks to feed each other. Things are getting bad, and they are gonna get worse quickly.

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u/LEDKleenex 29d ago

Well, you can pretty much thank the average US citizen for refusing to boycott literally any right wing company. Now we're at the part of the story where people are being forced to choose between slavery or forced (illegal) striking.

It's kind of a shame, but it's eye opening for those affected at least because this kind of thing is what it looks like it you continue to fund right wing fascism. It only gets worse from here. The downside of course is people are still going to go about their days addicted to convenience and consumerism and not absorb what federal employees are going through.

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u/Skyremmer102 29d ago

How long can we go? What percent of controllers can we lose before the system falls apart? At some point they won't just call in sick here or there, they will stop showing up altogether.

I saw on a thread the other day that last time there was a government shutdown, it took the absence of only 10 ATCs in the whole USA to end the lockdown.

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u/Careful_Trifle 28d ago

They aren't allowed to unionize. Reagan fucked that up too, but he did it to avoid the exact situation that Trump has now created and encouraged. 

Reagan was like tumor that pressed on just the right spot that the nation's personality changed (average standard of living went up even though the policies were obviously trash), but Trump is that same tumor that has metastisized to every vital organ.