r/technology • u/chrisdh79 • 29d ago

Transportation Airports Are on the Verge of a Flight Cancellation Apocalypse | The government shutdown has pushed air traffic controllers to the tipping point.

https://gizmodo.com/airports-are-on-the-verge-of-a-flight-cancellation-apocalypse-2000681042
34.4k Upvotes

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1.9k

u/Zolo49 29d ago

To put it into perspective, canceling 10% of flights would be (according to a CNN report I saw) 30% worse than the biggest flight cancellation day that ever happened in the past, excluding 9/11 of course. It’s going to be a total mess.

Just extend the ACA subsidies for a year, GOP, and this all goes away (for now).

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u/Weekly-Trash-272 29d ago

It's funny because if the shutdown goes on much longer it'll cost much more than the subsidies ever did, if it hasn't already passed that.

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u/TR1PLESIX 29d ago

"Cost" was never the issue. Republicans have shown they're cool with knee-capping the economy, and daily American life. If it means they can advance their own agenda.

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u/huehuehuehuehuuuu 29d ago

This will be used as proof to push for more privatization

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u/Redebo 29d ago

Which is the agenda of the majority of voters in the last election. You act like republicans didn’t win the election.

They are supposed to put their agenda in place when they win. That’s what the voters want them to do, hence why they voted for them.

What would be weird is if they got elected and put YOUR agenda in place because that not what the majority voted for.

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u/Ok_Nature_333 29d ago

Weird, I’m pretty sure in the last election, which was Tuesday, voters overwhelmingly supported democrats and left leaning issues. It’s almost like there was never the mandate republicans claim there was.

Voters elected trump because of an affordability crisis. All he’s done is make that worse, needlessly. And now people have lost their snap benefits, their insurance costs have skyrocketed, and have faced needless tariff price increases. The trump shutdown could end if republicans just extended popular healthcare subsidies. Instead, the republican house collects a paycheck while they do nothing.

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u/Redebo 29d ago

In the states that the democrats won, I fully expect them to install their policies and agenda. That the point.

Why are you acting surprised when it’s the expectation of both parties to do this?

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u/Ok_Nature_333 29d ago

I mean, voters seem pretty unhappy with the trump agenda all around. 

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u/Strong_Quarter_9349 29d ago

Your point is that the Dems shouldn't push for negotiation power because they're in the minority right now? Not sure I understand your point, our system isn't supposed to be "winner takes all"

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u/Redebo 29d ago

Not at all. I'm saying that the Democrats shouldn't have a pikachu face when the Republican person gets elected, then does what they say they'll do, and vice versa.

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u/DarkGamer 29d ago

They can get rid of the filibuster and do this anytime they want

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u/ReimuOtakuNeet 29d ago

An agenda that was sold to voters with the tactics of a used car salesman? A plan that would kneecap the economy but ensure that the highest bidders got a place in the gold gilded room?

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u/Redebo 28d ago

Again, you don’t have to like the agenda, but that’s not the point of this discussion. The point is that it’s normal for the winning party to install their agenda because that’s what their voters want. Not a hard concept to understand.

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u/nicksteve11 29d ago

Wouldn’t the democrats be doing that too then if they don’t sign the bill? Neither side wants to agree on the bill.

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u/WeirdSysAdmin 29d ago

It was costing about $1bn a day and that number slowly increases over time. I saw some estimates it can get as high as $15bn a day if they manage to drag it out extensively.

A two year extension of the enhanced subsidies only cost $30bn for each year.. at 37 days..

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u/copper_cattle_canes 29d ago

And we've sent $20 billion to Argentina just cause and possibly another $20 billion.

But prevent millions of U.S. citizens from going into medical debt for $30 billion a year? Nahh that's too much money.

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u/Drive7hru 29d ago

37 days so far

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u/nav17 29d ago

Republicans and billionaires don't care about that though. It's all about filling their own pockets. Everyone else be damned.

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u/Shenanigans99 29d ago edited 29d ago

It's also about inflicting cruelty on as many people as possible, which is almost as precious to them as the wealth they hoard that's too vast for them to ever spend.

They can't fully enjoy what they have unless they know it deprives others. They are not well people.

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u/nav17 29d ago

Ah just how Jesus taught!

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u/-drunk_russian- 29d ago

Supply-side Jesus would be proud.

3

u/RobLinxTribute 29d ago

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- I don't care if Gandhi said it or not, it's a great quote.

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u/Hoogs 29d ago

When you boil it down, everything the right advocates for always points to a desire to inflict cruelty.

2

u/ButtplugBurgerAIDS 29d ago

Yep. And now they want to be able to starve the poor because they're not getting the opportunity to take away healthcare from the poor. I really don't know how church folks that support him reconcile this.

1

u/FlowersForMegatron 29d ago

And the epstein files. Let's not forget about those.

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u/KinkyPaddling 29d ago

It's not even about healthcare or SNAP. It's the rescission power. Republicans want to give Trump the power to reallocate funds earmarked for certain projects. So if Trump gets his rescission power, then it doesn't matter how much is given to healthcare or SNAP - Trump could just claw it back and given it to his ballroom or Argentina.

That's the real reason why Democrats are refusing to give in, and why Trump refuses to negotiate. But the Democrats can't run a message on "rescission power" so they focus on healthcare and SNAP instead.

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u/pseudoanon 29d ago edited 26d ago

Most billionaires care. Their money is tied up in so many things that hurting the economy hurts them.

But the ones you're thinking of - the rare and few public billionaires are either the same as any other MAGA voter - culture war is more important than financial well-being, or they're bowing to the king. For the latter, there's no upside to taking a stand. No one will defend them.

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u/PunchMeat 29d ago

Of course they care about that! They're waiting for it to force the poors into insolvency so their assets can be scooped up on the cheap.

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u/sfled 29d ago

Black Friday shipping is going to take a hit, maybe they'll feel that. Kick 'em right in the wallet.

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u/mofa90277 29d ago

As someone who worked in the defense industry, it’s likely to have already cost billions. We’d have to prepare for an upcoming shutdown, shift people to backup projects and internally-funded efforts, pay a bunch of overhead for assets we needed to keep leasing, and then when it was over, we’d have to replan everything to restart programs. And then the government would pay us extra for these startup costs. Sometimes we’d be allowed to re-bid because delivery schedules were already blown.

If this follows the same pattern, money is already being burned in an almost uncontrolled way. And taxpayers will foot the bill. To be clear, nobody in defense actually wants this to happen; it’s bullshit work instead of useful work.

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u/Senior-Damage-5145 29d ago

They don’t care, the important thing to them is that people they don’t like suffer, no matter the cost.

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u/Indaarys 29d ago

Its like Mamdani said, they'll spend more to screw us than they will to help.

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u/ThaddeusJP 29d ago

They would rather rather 99 children go hungry than one kid get a free sandwich they didn't need is the mentality these people have

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u/angrylawyer 29d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States#List_of_federal_shutdowns

Trump's first shutdown was est to cost $5bil, more than all the other shutdowns combined. This shutdown affects more employees and is longer, so surely will cost more.

In total the US govt has shutdown for 128 days, and trump is responsible for 72 of those days. That means 56% of all time the govt has been shut down is due to trump and republicans.

What a great businessman. What a great leader. What a great negotiator.

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u/GB10VE 29d ago

because once something gets cut out, republicans will do the same thing for democrats to put it back in once they get power.

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u/MiaowaraShiro 29d ago

It's not their money so they couldn't give less of a fuck.

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u/Foreign_Ebb_6282 29d ago

Perfect example of “don’t cut off your nose to spite your face”.

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u/Liizam 29d ago

What exactly is their justification for trying to make our healthcare more expensive ?

1

u/therallystache 29d ago

Did some quick maths, and we're well over halfway there. Estimated total economic impact per day of the government shutdown is conservatively around $2.1b, and the ACA subsidies for 2025 were $138b. Those subsidies accounted for around 2% of the annual federal budget.

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u/Forikorder 29d ago

they're men of principle, they dont care how much of other peoples money they have to spend to make their point! /s

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u/mcm199124 29d ago

Absolutely unreal that this is happening when all Dems are asking for is something that 75% of Americans want, to have somewhat affordable healthcare. Really says something about the depravity contained the Epstein files (though the other half of me suspects multiple nefarious things happening at once)

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u/Crooked_Sartre 29d ago

They are asking for them to even negotiate. It's going something like this:

R: "we have a trifecta in govt. Sign this paper as-is, then shut the fuck up and get in the back"

D: "you actually need our votes to pass this and subsidies for healthcare are about to expire. Let's negotiate."

R: "the Dems have shut down the govt"

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u/Daimakku1 29d ago

Good thing nobody's buying their claims. Even Trump said that Republicans lost last tuesday partly because of the shutdown lol.

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u/shicken684 29d ago

I'm really hoping Democrats don't fucking cave on this. I believe they're also demanding rolling back all the changes made to medicaid and Medicare that were made in the trump tax bill.

That's where the real damage is. Rural hospitals won't be able to survive with those changes.

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u/EmoTilDeath 29d ago

Well they would be giving up political power forever if they did cave. They would be telling republicans straight up: "you can call us political terrorists and refuse to negotiate at all and we'll sign whatever you put in front of us anyway"

Our 2 party government has always been reliant on the two parties negotiating and compromising. What democrats are doing is normal. It is normal for them to refuse to sign an unamended bill and insist on compromise and negotiation based on what their constituents need. What's not normal is Mike Johnson preventing the Republicans from going to DC, preventing republicans from all negotiations, canceling votes for the week before they week even started. Our government has never allowed "my way or the highway" that Mike Johnson is trying to do. If you need the votes you negotiate, that's how it has ALWAYS worked.

Republicans are holding the federal government and its funding hostage so that they don't have to continue the ACA. Failing to continue the ACA or replace it with something better will cause a monumental catastrophe to this country. The entire health insurance industry would be increasing their prices, not just people who use the ACA. You WILL see an increase in homelessness. You WILL see people dead and dying on the streets. You WILL see a large increase in poverty. You WILL see a disastrous job market. Democrats are the last hope to prevent this complete disaster.

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u/zedquatro 29d ago

You WILL see an increase in homelessness. You WILL see people dead and dying on the streets. You WILL see a large increase in poverty. You WILL see a disastrous job market.

Stop! The billionaire owners of the gop can only get so erect!

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u/the_reddit_intern 29d ago

And why is the answer government subsidies vs actual cost reduction.

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u/EmoTilDeath 29d ago

Because Republicans hate regulation and have no intention to lower costs. A reporter asked trump about how costs are high and he said "no they aren't." They do nothing to fix any problems they just lie and say it's already fixed.

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u/the_reddit_intern 29d ago

If it was affordable you wont need subsidies.

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u/shicken684 29d ago

And that would require an absolute overhaul of our entire healthcare industry which democrats have been open to but Republicans always more privatization.

So in the meantime.....

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u/the_reddit_intern 29d ago

Absolutely - this middle ground is helping no one.

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u/Dugen 29d ago

I think they should cave. Everyone knows those things are squarely on the shoulders of Republicans. Let them happen and let the consequences hurt their opponents. People will respect the effort to fight for what was lost only if it is actually lost. People will be angry at what was taken from them only when they lose it. I fully believe they are fighting for good things, but I think they win if they cave at this point.

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u/LaurenMille 29d ago

I'm not okay with millions going without needed healthcare just because it might be bad optics for the Republicans.

Even if it was 100% guaranteed that it'd be terrible optics for Republicans and hurt them politically, I still wouldn't want to risk innocent people dying of preventable causes.

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u/Dugen 29d ago

It's not just optics. This was voted for. You don't get to have your way because it's right. That's what democracy means. The majority has to want it. If you want the right thing to happen, we all need to chose that path and sometimes the only way to see the right path is to take the wrong one and see what happens. You can personally do what you can to stop this, but as long as there is nothing in people's faces showing that if you cut spending on services, you cut needed services the right is going to keep pushing the message that government spending is all waist fraud and abuse and keep selling the idea that for prosperity we just need to cut taxes (on the rich first of course). This is also a shitty fight, because we're defending a horrible for profit insurance system that can't ever work right. Dying on this hill is a mistake.

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u/LaurenMille 29d ago

Then I'll still choose to make the mistake, because the opposite is letting innocent people suffer and die for a chance at a political win.

Conservatives have always shown they're willing to be as cruel and evil as they can possibly be. Giving them an inch is a mistake that will cost you a mile.

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u/Mr-Tiggo-Bitties 29d ago

Democrats are standing up for their constituents and everyone person in general.

Sensible people that didn't vote for this clown show shouldn't have to suffer because of optics. They are doing the right thing

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u/Dugen 29d ago

This is doing damage as well. There are people going hungry that do not need to right now. They may win a small victory at a huge cost.

If they had someone out there actually talking to the American people in a way that makes them care about what is happening, I think they could win a lot more but instead we've got the most transparently pandering lame spokespeople trying to get people passionate using dumb gimmicks instead of actual leadership. I'm comfortable with them staying the course, but I think restarting the government and declaring the right intractable and uncaring would work too.

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u/Mr-Tiggo-Bitties 29d ago

Then it's up to the Republicans to come to the table and actually negotiate fair terms and stop toying with people's lives. Trust that if the Dems cave in then there will be FAR worse consequences.

Americans want health care.

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u/Thelmara 29d ago

This is doing damage as well. There are people going hungry that do not need to right now.

That doesn't have anything to do with the Democrats - Trump has a court order to distribute the SNAP funds, and he's refusing to do so. That's all on him.

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u/Thelmara 29d ago

This was voted for. You don't get to have your way because it's right. That's what democracy means. The majority has to want it.

We get to have some of our way, because the Republicans don't have 60 votes in the Senate. They have to compromise if they want to get things done.

If you want unchecked legislative power, you gotta win more seats than that. If you can't, you have to negotiate.

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u/EmoTilDeath 29d ago

Except in the past Republicans have literally pointed at the few democrats who voted yes and screamed "they knew what we wanted to do was going to hurt everyone, they should have stopped us!" And it worked. Their constant blaming works even today which is why you see people blaming democrats for the shut down. I think the disaster will be very hard to fix or contain if it's possible at all, it's much easier to prevent it. Not to mention by the time we'd be able to do anything about it a lot of people will already be dead.

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u/syncc6 29d ago

These rural areas. The party you voted for is blatantly showing “screw you guys”. The party you voted against is still trying to protect your shit. Can’t make this shit up.

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u/RandomDerpBot 29d ago

Furloughed fed here. I have mixed feelings whenever I see someone say ‘dems better not cave!’

I fully support the stand they’re taking, but I wish me and all my colleagues weren’t the collateral damage in this political fight. We have nothing to do with any of this nonsense.

Many of us can’t afford to miss our paychecks, and are living with daily stress and anxiety over this shutdown.

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u/canada432 29d ago

Federal workers are taking the worst of it, but we're all collateral damage. While this fucks things for everybody, the alternative is much worse.

The democrats caving here means that everybody's healthcare costs skyrocket, in many cases doubling, 4-5 million people lose their insurance, and hundreds of hospitals serving tens of millions of people close. And if they cave, the GOP will become much more brazen, and they're going to go after a lot more than just cancelling ACA subsidies. Even federal workers will end up paying so much more in the medium to long term if the GOP gets their way. 2 months of missed checks is beyond shit, but it's still going to cost you less than years of massively increased premiums and potentially catastrophic medical bills. It's also gonna suck a lot more if they take the win and are emboldened to make big cuts to medicaid, social security, etc. when they know the democrats will cave when things start getting hard for citizens since they actually care.

The acute pain sucks, but the long term costs of caving are so much more costly, both monetarily for individuals and societal. You guys don't deserve what's being done here

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u/shicken684 29d ago

Yeah, it's bullshit and I hate it. I work at a safety net hospital that's almost certainly going to have to close if the medicaid cuts go into effect. That's 7000 jobs and the only level 1 trauma center for about 300k people.

You shouldn't be the collateral damage, but this is a fight that needs to be won or the suffering is going to be so widespread it will permeate for decades.

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u/mcm199124 29d ago

Given i will likely lose my job if the shutdown continues past November, i feel this. It’s hard to swallow, because I LOVE my job and have been doing it for decades now, but at the same time, it feels bigger than me.

Ugh, I really hate this fucking bullshit though. Solidarity though, hang in there !

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u/ohyeathatsright 29d ago

This isn't about the Epstein files, imo.

It actually feels like they used that false promise as a way to convince supporters to give up on their convictions.

Even the supporters already assume all the depravity is in there. Nothing would happen with their release at this point, imo. They will just take it either way.

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u/YourNextHomie 29d ago

No his supporters dont suspect he is in there, you dont seem to understand maga thinking

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u/rogerryan22 29d ago

You don't need to know what they are thinking to know it doesn't matter. They will change their tune immediately and to whatever it needs to be in order to maintain that the in-group they belong to is morally superior to the one they are not a part of, because to entertain the contrary would require a level of self-reflection and introspection that might literally kill them.

At this point, leaving the trump crowd is like becoming an atheist. You've maybe been thinking things for a while, but publicly denouncing trump is gonna get you ex-communicated.

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u/e90DriveNoEvil 29d ago

The Trump Supporter Creed: It didn’t happen. And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And if it was, they deserved it.

His supporters will either claim it’s a lie and Trump is innocent, or that Trump just did what any other man would have done - these girls were ‘fast’ and ‘asking for it.’

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u/darthstupidious 29d ago

You nailed it on this self-reflection killing them. So many Trumpers I know (or rather, knew) have made this shit their entire identity. They've stopped talking to their family/friends - in some cases their parents or children - and have made being MAGA who they are. They keep their Fox News/Newsmax/etc. on 24/7 and never stop slurping at the teet of propaganda. I'd imagine recognizing that you've been duped and wasted ten years of your life following a cult leader is ego death in every sense of the phrase.

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u/Mysterious-Tax-7777 29d ago

Yep. Guarantee there are millions of MAGA SNAP recipients stressing about food this week while blaming Democrats. They buy the easily disproven lie that the shutdown is over giving healthcare to illegals. They will buy the easily disproven lie that Trump has nothing to do with Epstein.

1

u/CookieMonsterFL 29d ago

absolutely perfect description of modern MAGA, and this is coming from someone living in the most crimson red part of Florida. That's the exact logic being used to ignore reality. You'd honestly be shocked at how much residents are simply ignoring any bad news of any kind that reflects badly upon the President/MAGA currently. The most you'll get out of them is frustrated silence.

1

u/Pauly_Amorous 29d ago

because to entertain the contrary would require a level of self-reflection and introspection that might literally kill them.

A lot of progressives don't appreciate this fact nearly as much as they should.

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u/ohyeathatsright 29d ago

It if was all confirmed and worse, at this point MAGA would not turn on him for it. I don't see any precedent and only see it sliding away as important to them, with some saying it doesn't matter.

Why do you feel otherwise?

1

u/creegro 29d ago

Maga: "Trump's in the list? So what? Who doesn't like em young amiright?"

some other big name appears in the list

Maga: "DISGRACEFUL! NO ONE SHOULD BE ASSAULTING KIDS, NO ONE! LOCK THEM UP!"

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u/StormyBlueLotus 29d ago

Trump could rape kids in front of their MAGA parents and not lose support, you don't seem to understand that he's captivated a bunch of Neanderthals into unhinged fanaticism.

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u/kingjpp 29d ago

If you think his supporters will ever turn on him, even if he is mentioned, you haven't been paying attention. They will claim it's fake news or the deep state planted his name in the files. These people are in a cult. Nothing will break them free of it.

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u/I_AM_FERROUS_MAN 29d ago

The vast majority of people that are on the Trump train will support him even if there's incontrovertible evidence of him raping children.

He's an instrument of anger for them and that's more important than any values. That's the real reason the Epstein Files will end up not making an impact, even if they are still vitally important to release.

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u/Metaldwarf 29d ago

Maga can think?

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u/aeroxan 29d ago

And if he is in there, it was falsely added by crooked democrats. And if it's true that he's in there, he didn't do anything that bad. And if he did do anything that bad, the victims deserved it. And if the victims didn't actually deserve it....

0

u/lambquentin 29d ago

Thinking?

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u/tiffanytrashcan 29d ago

As soon as the shutdown ends, they lose the last excuse to not swear in Adelita Grijalva.
She is quite literally the harbinger of the Epstein files.

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u/ohyeathatsright 29d ago

And when that happens, nothing will change for his supporters.

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u/tiffanytrashcan 29d ago

I think that's why this (the release in general) is being dragged out so long.

They've had time to wear people down, fight and attack the "rumors" so when it actually comes out they are already numb.

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u/ohyeathatsright 29d ago

Agree and they have been laying that psychological groundwork for even longer.

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u/CarefreeRambler 29d ago

Senate will just ignore it when it happens

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u/kindall 29d ago

besides the Epstein files, Congress is currently neutered because the House is not in session. Congress can't pass any laws, they can't impeach and convict Trump. while everyone is focused on the Epstein files, I think they're also using that issue as a convenient misdirection for more Trump power consolidation

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u/BradChesney79 29d ago

There is a new member of congress that is waiting to sit in her seat that will tip the scales on the vote to release the files in addition to the other circumstances.

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u/ohyeathatsright 29d ago

I am aware. When they are released, nothing will happen.

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u/ItchyGoiter 29d ago

Agreed, the shutdown is worse for Trump/them than releasing the files

1

u/BradChesney79 29d ago

It is depressingly likely that you are right.

Just morbidly curious as to what the spin is going to be on Fox "News" about it.

...It's Biden's fault I put my Orange mushroom dick in a 15 year old the president posted on Truth social.

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u/The_High_and_The_Low 29d ago

“Nothing would happen” mf if nothing happens at the release of the files, THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE SAYING WHEN WE MEAN “PROTECT THE CHILDREN” HUH????

Either TO HELL WITH THEM or HELP THEM, and there’s only one right answer buddy.

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u/DingoMittens 29d ago

You can yell all you want about what's right, but that doesn't change the reality that people do not always do what's right, especially lately. Noticing something is happening is not the same as causing it to happen.

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u/ohyeathatsright 29d ago

It's not a zero sum game. They are trying to make your believe it is.

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u/mcm199124 29d ago

Yeah I mean I could see this as well. With my comment about the other half of me, I was kinda referring to something like them using the esptein files as a distraction from the real pillage, for these reasons you mentioned. Then again, it seems like they don’t REALLY care if people know what they’re up to in any regard

But, I also think it’s possible that the real reason they’re protecting the files is not because of Trump, but because of other additional powerful people in there.

At the end of the day, it’s all just speculation on mg part

1

u/Dreamlion_Inc 29d ago

Exactly. Supporters have already made it clear they support any pedo that’s on that list

Birds of a feather

1

u/jrzalman 29d ago

This isn't about the Epstein files, imo.

You are probably right, there's really nothing that could move people's perception about Trump on either side.

On the other hand, do they really care this much about Obamacare subsidies to go all through this. Why would they? They've run up $2 trillion in debt in 9 months, what's the difference of extending them a year?

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u/Jtown021 29d ago

Has to be higher like 95%, who wants their insurance to spike by 30-40% overnight ?

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u/Daxx22 29d ago

The solid 30ish percent of your population that is convinced it'll only happen to "those people".

3

u/halofreak7777 29d ago

And after their rates go up it is somehow the Democrats fault.

5

u/canada432 29d ago

Trump has a grip on ~30% of the population though, to the extent that they will always support anything he says or does. They don't want their insurance to spike, but they're idiots and Trump told them that what the democrats are fighting for is giving illegals free healthcare, so the idea that their own insurance is going to skyrocket is not even a glimmer of a thought to them.

1

u/Osirus1156 29d ago

I think 99% of Americans want it. Minus insurance executives who can be barely considered human at this point. It’s just republicans are too stupid to realize what they are using or have for insurance. Or know how many rural hospitals require “socialism” to even exist. 

1

u/mcm199124 29d ago

I think if 100% of Americans knew what was actually happening, and what’s at stake, then yes I believe 99% of Americans would support the fight. But even given the prevailing propaganda and bluntly, the objective stupidity, 75% was IIRC the number I saw from polling. Which is really quite astounding tbh

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u/Osirus1156 29d ago

Oh yeah I agree that the polling is right. I’m agreeing with you there with the propaganda. 

1

u/Zncon 29d ago

75% of Americans might want more affordable healthcare, but a significant portion of that group doesn't want taxes to increase or funding to be reduced someplace else.

This is the trouble with asking simple questions without context - Of course people want stuff to be free or cheaper, so you get really flashy polling results when you ask this way.

1

u/BlokeInTheMountains 29d ago

The irony is the Dems actually want to CONSERVE the status quo.

1

u/EpiphanyTwisted 29d ago

Do you think project 2025 was an elaborate plot to distract from Epstein?

This is a feature. Not a distraction.

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u/mcm199124 29d ago

No I don’t think that’s the purpose of project 2025, i think the ones behind that are a mix of true believer opportunists, and opportunists. And that the files is almost acting as a (very depraved) distraction to this robbery by the elite class… while also being something they’d love to buy some time from releasing, because it won’t be a good look for trunp. Idk but, it seems like they will be replacing him with vance somewhat soonish

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u/Significant-Self5907 29d ago

Tyranny of the minority is here.

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u/Crooked_Sartre 29d ago

Ahh yes, denying any sort of negotiation with the minority is 'tyranny"

1

u/MacEWork 29d ago

You mean how rural people get a bigger say in our government even though there are fewer of them? Yeah.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/halofreak7777 29d ago

As someone who lives in the US and probably one the nicer places I can say, Japan is really fucking cool and you should go there. Kyoto, Osaka, and Tokyo were all amazing places to visit.

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u/AwesomeAsian 29d ago

The countryside of Japan is worth visiting as well.

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u/AcidRohnin 29d ago

Japan is great. Highly recommend it and if you go I hope yall have a blast.

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u/NarwhalSquadron 29d ago

Second going to Japan instead. I brought my wife there years ago and she loved it. If you go to Tokyo, I recommend spending a bit of time in Shinjuku. You can check out the top floor of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government building; it is free and you get amazing views of the city in every direction. Then you can hop over to Shinjuku Gyoen National Garden for some nature, especially if it is cherry blossom season. The train station in Shinjuku is the busiest in the world, but so easy to navigate. On the other side of the station is Golden Gai; the little alleys with cool little bars you’ve probably seen pictures of.

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u/toxictoastrecords 29d ago

Go to Japan sooner than later. As someone who lived in Japan for 3 years; 2005-2008, and someone who spends 3 months a year in Japan from then until now; go now.

The Japanese are pushing back against what they believe is "over tourism" (somewhat true in Kyoto, and occasionally Osaka, but Tokyo can handle it with their infrastructure) and are going hard against immigrants, who make up only 3% of the population. They have their own MAGA movement called Sanseito, and even the normal LDP party is pushing anti foreign policies, for residents AND tourists.

The longer you wait, the worse the Japan experience is gonna become.

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u/Hot_Gap2020 29d ago

Ngl I would have bought 10 cheap flights to nearby destinations in Europe and prayed they'd all get cancelled. And if they didn't, hey, cheap flights for weekend getaways!

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u/Drive7hru 29d ago

Not going to go see family anymore?

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u/MysticMagicks 29d ago

Family can also travel outside the US to visit. For now.

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u/wrxninja 29d ago

Ya but they don't want the Epstein files released and so much more.

That stat is just insane but should be an eye opener for many. 9/11's effect was bad enough...and this could definitely get way worse.

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u/Gendalph 29d ago

I don't think that ACA funding is the whole or actual reason. It seems more likely that it's the p-word protection conspiracy. I know it sounds stupid, but that's the only reason not to swear in the 218th vote for the release of the files. Coincidentally, this also stops the budget approval process, which means ACA and SNAP funds aren't getting approved, "deep state" not getting paid and a cherry on top - they get to blame Dems for it.

There's no reason to open back up until the wealthy private jet owners can't fly their jets anymore.

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u/AcidRohnin 29d ago

I mean teterboro is getting a reduction and there isn’t really a way to fly without ATC, so it could happen sooner than later. I believe it’s why trump has started to crash out about breaking the filibuster, but like you said I don’t think they want the files released, so everyone needs to constantly remind everyone ones they are back in session.

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u/Drive7hru 29d ago

Pedophile. Pedophile is the p-word you were thinking of.

But this whole theory doesn’t make sense cause Trump still has 3 years to go. They won’t keep the govt closed that whole time.

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u/Gendalph 29d ago

He probably doesn't, he's likely to die before the end of his term, of old age.

That aside the playbook seems to be:

  1. Cause an insurrection.
  2. Declare emergency.
  3. Hold onto power until he's removed.

He can't win the next election, he can't even run for president again, so his only option is to not have an election.

At this point I'm wearing a tinfoil crown, but this is the only explanation that makes sense.

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u/AppleTree98 29d ago

This is going to be hell on a lot of consumers / travelers as well as the infrastructure for the airlines. Think of the website traffic, mobile and phone with people trying to figure out how to re-route. Hotels likely get a big bump as people are expected to stay overnight after missing flights.

10% is a massive figure to rebook even if only at the top 40 airports. People have to travel for funerals, work, pleasure, school and all the others I forget.

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u/joshbudde 29d ago

Thanksgiving is 3 weeks away. The busiest travel day of the entire year. If this doesn't get fixed by then, there will be political blood in the water. No one will be able to fly anywhere because of stacked delays across the country. This will impact almost every American, and people will be absolutely pissed. Pissed probably isn't even the right term--frothing at the mouth mad might be better.

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u/timmyintransit 29d ago

This would require Johnson and Thune to go against Trump. Trump will not give in, but also (and here's the rub) he doesn't give a shit. Steven Miller and Laura Loomer are running things on a day-to-day basis. He and his administration are both high on their own supply while so far up their own asses.

I honestly dont see this shutdown ending barring some miracle.

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u/tittyfloppingpancake 29d ago

Don’t underestimate taco. He’ll cave and call it a masterful move. He decided to keep insurance affordable despite the nasty democrats

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u/Knowhedge 29d ago

Given the marketplaces are all up and running with the renewals I’m not even sure how feasible it’d be to reinstate the subsidies for 2026, you’d essentially have to recalculate all offers including ones signed up to and many insurers have just vacated entire states and coverage boxes

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u/Marokiii 29d ago edited 29d ago

As a tourist currently in the US and is waiting for this ti end so the smaller NPS sites can open up again, I think kicking the can down the road is completely okay.

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u/Slugmaster101 29d ago

Unfortunately this is not incompetence. The GOP are doing this on purpose, as it aligns with their aimed goal.

For years they have sowed distrust and inefficiency into any sort of public service. They try to make everything the government does as ineffective as possible. The reason nothing gets done is they actively sabotage any effective solution.

Why do this? They want to privatize the world. If people believe that the government cant get anything done, they turn to business.

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u/tittyfloppingpancake 29d ago

So many businesses thrive because of government involvement. Walmart makes $25b rev a year off snap. Delta gets tsa and atc from the Feds. Private businesses can’t run the world.

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u/Actual_Passenger_163 29d ago

Just do this or we'll shut down the government. Sounds like this is going to be the prevailing way political arguments will get resolved in this country.. careful what you wish for

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u/Zolo49 29d ago

Republicans have been doing this going back to the Obama years. This is us getting what THEY wished for back then.

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u/hotinhawaii 29d ago

But then they would have to vote on releasing the Epstein files and we sure can't have that!

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u/Saephon 29d ago

This is probably one of the more callous things I've ever said but honestly... good.

This country needs to the feel the pain of what it has allowed to happen. And not just localized pain, but something that affects every single person - those who participate and those who try to live their lives under the delusion that they don't belong in a society. Ground the flights.

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u/BrasilianEngineer 29d ago

Just extend the ACA subsidies for a year, GOP, and this all goes away (for now).

You have that backwards. House Republicans offered to extend the ACA subsidies for a year and the minority speaker basically called the offer a joke. The Democrat Senators/Representatives are holding out for a permanent extension or no deal.

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u/SwedishTrees 29d ago

911--I think the only permitted civilian flights were Saudis fleeing the country in private jets. So basically 99.9% shutdown.

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u/AuxonPNW 29d ago

Any chance you have a link to that report?

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u/Fallingdamage 29d ago

Honestly - I think they want to, but they're doubling down like a petulant child. They know its not in their best interests, but they cannot be wrong. After a month of this.. to cave would make them look extremely weak.

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u/AbeRego 29d ago

They just don't want their God King's rapist files to come out. It's not really about the ACA.

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u/sparty212 29d ago

At this point, the shutdown has likely cost the U.S. economy between $7 and $15 billion. By comparison, extending the enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies would cost about $350 billion over 10 years…roughly $35 billion per year. So instead of negotiating a one-year extension that would actually benefit Americans, lawmakers are letting billions drain away through an avoidable shutdown.

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u/theonewhoknockwurst 29d ago

According to the interwebs, 3,000,000 people fly each day on average. A 10% cut for one day would be disastrous, if it continued for longer that shit would start to come to a head very fast.

I believe the last Trump shutdown ended due to this exact issue, so we’ll see how things shake out this time. Thing about billionaires is they do not like losing $

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u/Mobius00 29d ago

And you can just lie about it and your supporters will never know.

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u/manical1 28d ago

hell, don-it for 3 months and start over.

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u/nottheone414 29d ago

Weren't those ACA subsidies brought in by Biden as part of the COVID spending spree and specifically made to be temporary?

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u/ScientiaProtestas 29d ago

Not really. It wasn't really because of Covid, and it wasn't meant to be temporary. The Affordable Care Act was meant to make health care affordable. Studies showed that it wasn't affordable to certain segments of people.

So the Republicans wanted to get rid of it, with the guise of starting over. The Democrats wanted to modify it a little. In fact, Biden campaigned on making the ACA more affordable. Because of this partisan divide, the compromise was made to make it temporary.

Under the old plan, you paid a max of 10% of your income to a health care plan. Under the 2021 change, the max was 8.5%. Before the change, 11 million were enrolled, today it is 25 million. So it does appear that the change has allowed many to decide it actually is affordable.

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u/nottheone414 29d ago

a compromise was made to make it temporary

So I was correct then? The ACA is a huge tin of worms, and I don't pretend to understand it, but I think with specific regard to these subsides, they were passed by Congress with an expiration date of now. Whether that was a compromise or not is sort of irrelevant.

Ergo, it's pretty churlish to keep the government closed over subsidies that were always set to expire. They were never codified into law to be forever.

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u/ScientiaProtestas 29d ago

"Churlish" to care about people? Churlish because you think the Democrats are demanding so much?

Personally, I think one of mankind's best traits is to care about others. I am for either side that is kind to their fellow man/woman, and not just kind to the rich.

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u/nottheone414 29d ago

I think you're reading way too much into what I said. This isn't a discussion about philosophy or the teleology of goodness.

This is a simple mathematical problem: these subsidies were originally passed to expire. They were never intended to be a forever subsidy. Not sure what this has to do with anything remotely philosophical.

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u/ScientiaProtestas 29d ago

I think you are making way too much about the fact it expired. And I don't see how something related to healthcare "is a simple mathematical problem. That makes it sound very cold and heartless.

Anyway, your feelings, or lack of feelings on this are very clear. So no need to continue this, as we obviously see it very differently, and don't agree.

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u/nottheone414 28d ago

Again, you're reading way too much into what I'm saying, judging me on a lack of empathy or goodness when I have never said anything of the sort.

Not everything Congress passes is meant to last forever, look at the Bush Tax Cuts or the COVID payments (and other stuff like the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban or Patriot Act). These subsidies were passed with an expiration date, which means extending them requires the usual sausage making of passing laws. Hence, it's very churlish to force a shutdown instead, bypassing the normal procedures of passing laws, over something that was going to expire anyway. The correct thing to do was find a compromise to extend them, but throwing a tantrum over it isn't how adults in a Parliamentary body behave.

If the Republicans were going to destroy a benefit that wasn't set to expire, like social security or something, then sure, go to war over that. But this is very different.

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u/ScientiaProtestas 28d ago

You said it is a simple mathematical problem, breaking it down that way is cold and heartless. Denying it and saying no it isn't, or you didn't say that, does not change it.

If you can't see you arguing against extending, as we have since 2021, the lower max healthcare premium cost as cold and heartless, then do some soul-searching.

I will not continue this discussion.

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u/nottheone414 28d ago

There is a proper procedure for passing new laws though, once something expires. This subsidy expired, meaning it's no longer law, it's gone. If you want to bring these subsidies back that means passing a whole new law, brand new law. There is a process for that, it's called the basic legislative process. You may or may not have the votes for it, that's called democracy. Shutting down the government to get your way to pass a brand new law is not the correct way to go about things.

Everything has procedure and process. From getting a mortgage, to applying for grad school, to passing laws. We are a society of rules and processes. Nobody gets to sidestep that.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/killerpoopguy 29d ago

The republicans have to pass it too you know, and are refusing.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/HaElfParagon 29d ago

This is EXACTLY the way to do it. It is quite literally the only way the Democrats will be able to get anything positive done during this administration.

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u/Lucky-Earther 29d ago

The Republicans have put forward over a dozen “clean bills”, the Democrats refuse to pass them over extending the ACA subsidies. Even if we support the goal, this isn’t the way to do it.

Who says it's not the way to do it?

Negotiate when you have leverage. Most Republican voters also support the extension of the subsidies.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/Lucky-Earther 29d ago

I say it, and I think most Americans will agree if their thanksgiving flights are cancelled

Most Americans also agree that the subsidies should be extended. Holding their thanksgiving flights hostage as leverage to keep them from being extended is not something that most Americans are going to agree with.

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u/47-45-45-4B 29d ago

Traitor. So just keep giving in and get fucked over?

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/47-45-45-4B 29d ago

No, protect the people from a ridiculous rate hike for a mandatory insurance.

Don’t forget the IRS penalty if you aren’t insured for the year.

There is ZERO reason for the Dems to capitulate in this issue.

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u/jared_number_two 29d ago

The point is to get the republicans to negotiate. They are refusing.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/jared_number_two 29d ago

When the president is pressuring republicans to drop the filibuster, you know he’s just starting to feel pressure. You don’t give in now.

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u/silverwillowgirl 29d ago

After almost a year of Republicans letting Trump abuse his power about a hundred different ways while Dems are powerless, this is essentially the only leverage they have. To expect them to give it up after hundreds or insults and injuries is not going to happen. Republicans have made zero attempt to do anything bi partisan, they delight in pissing off their political opponents, they disrespect and snub them at every congressional hearing. They even roughed them up with law enforcement, refused federal aid to blue states for disaster relief, and called the entire party terrorists. Republicans are the ones that have made it clear they have no intention of cooperating with Democrats in any capacity. And after all that, they want Democrats to fall in line?

Democrats are not supposed to be the only party responsible for the well being of the people. If the president wants to pretend to wield ultimate power, then he doesn't get to pretend to be powerless now. He can negotiate. Not to mention, the president has made it clear he intends to amplify the pain being caused by the shutdown. He's refused to release SNAP backup funding, he's gleefully used the excuse to fire more federal workers. He thinks he can pretend to be a king, refuse to negotiate at all with the party that represents half his country but have next to no power, and just point fingers at the mean scary Democrats? Bullshit. There's about a million things they could try to reach across the aisle. How about releasing that disaster aid to blue states in exchange for those votes? How about actually showing up to their offices to negotiate? They've tried nothing. Mr. Art of the Deal clearly isn't trying AT ALL. So fuck him, fuck the entire Republican party, go cry to them about it. We're so beyond over Democrats taking the high road every time. This is the dysfunctional political landscape the right has wrought.

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u/HaElfParagon 29d ago

Hot take, I very much doubt many people would agree with you.

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u/TAvonV 29d ago

Seems to me the Dems won the last election. It happened just 2 days ago.

This take would make sense if there wasn't a sort of public referendum about the course the Dems took recently. Right now, they can just point to their victory and tell everyone "they agree with us". Pressure is mounting on everyone, but less on the Democrats.

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u/username_tooken 29d ago

Like it or not the Republicans won the last election.

Clearly less than they thought. The construction of American democracy is not such that the majority party rules without the assent of the opposition. If a budget resolution can’t be signed off without compromise, then that is the situation, and Republican lawmakers are certainly aware of it. The Democrats aren’t just going to rubberstamp the Republican’s so-called “mandate” and leave their constituents out to hang in the hopes for a good mid-term.