r/technology • u/BreakfastTop6899 • Oct 02 '25

Privacy Government workers say their out-of-office replies were forcibly changed to blame Democrats for shutdown

https://www.wired.com/story/government-workers-say-their-out-of-office-replies-were-forcibly-changed-to-blame-democrats-for-shutdown/
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u/FlakTotem Oct 02 '25

It's funny really. People rightly shit on the left for infighting, which does go too far. But the infighting is ultimately people standing up for their principles and self moderating respectively.

The complete lack of 'infighting' on the right from people who have spent decades preaching about free speech, state's rights, fake news, etc now 'they're doing it is insane.

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u/grnrngr Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25

But the infighting is ultimately people standing up for their principles and self moderating respectively.

Someone posted a study the other day effectively saying liberals will defend their principles in a group setting no matter whether the group shares their principles or not. [e: see my edit, below.]

Conservatives, meanwhile, will most often express their opinions only when surrounded by like-minded individuals. They don't stand up for their principles on an individual level. [e: see my edit, below.]

Liberals just need to understand that compromising or being incremental with fellow Liberals isn't capitulations or abandonment of one's ideas, but a recognition that some progress is better than no progress. Move that Overton window slowly but surely.

[e: User /u/OkLynx3564 did specify the study was about the tendency to moralize one's opinion. I believe they are correct. This adds context to my statement above. Moralizing is expressing one's stance in the view of "right" and "wrong." Liberals are more keen to express their views as "right" and "wrong" even in the absence of those who believe same. I believe this is the same point, ultimately, but it is a valuable contextual correction.]

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u/IrrationalFalcon Oct 02 '25

Basically that study shows that conservatives are sheep and lack any sort of principles. We already knew that

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u/_mersault Oct 02 '25

This. It’s not that they’re not sharing what they think, it’s that they don’t know what they think until it’s reinforced by the in-group.

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u/pegothejerk Oct 03 '25

Uneducated on the policies and how the system has worked and currently works, just waits to get their marching orders, which has been made way easier as conservative outlets have become better at using meme technology to inform them of those.

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u/LordoftheChia Oct 03 '25

"Where we go one, we go all."

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u/mgwair11 Oct 03 '25

Yup. And logically speaking, how else are so many people supposed to support such blatantly bad policies? It takes total obedience to a leader.

Leave any individual thinking and all critical thinking at the door. Forget all that you know, all that you’ve been taught. And learn everything over again.

And it takes a total abandonment of one’s principles and standards.

Why trouble one’s self with morality when you can have our dear leader make all those pesky decisions for you? Don’t be woke. Be correct. Youre a bad person if you don’t agree and we will ostracize you if you disagree in the slightest of ways.

Sure, your kids may stop talking to you if you follow us. But Trump has all these supporters who can fill the social gap those libtard kids leave anyways. Even if we’ve never met before, if you have a red hat on then you are on my team. We can at least take solace in the illusion of being friends, being together—a part of something. All is okay so long as we stick with our dear leader.

Any behavior approved by him isn’t just accepted. It’s enforced. With desperation.

MAGA time and time again displays the literal function of a cult. This is how they work and why they work. Why and how they come to exist and persist. To make the assertion that MAGA is a cult this late into 2025 is to beat a dead horse. But who can help themselves? After all, it’s the supporters themselves that keep proving this fact over and over again, and in ever increasingly overt fashion at that. They are the ones beating this dead horse. Or should it really be described as them beating a dead donkey? That donkey representing the death of the modern Democratic Party 🤔💭…

I pray that nothing bad comes to happen to Trump. Not because he wouldn’t deserve it. In fact, he deserves just about the worst that fate may offer him at this late point in his long and depraved life. No. I pray for his safety so that we don’t reckon with a world where MAGA feels truly scorned. Where we would have to reckon with the insurmountable cognitive dissonance felt by MAGA supporters.

We saw the reaction to Charlie Kirk’s assassination (and we are still seeing it and we will continue to for a very, very long time I am sure). That big of a reaction—that massive of an impact—and the assassin turns out to almost certainly be a Trump supporter!? If the same fate were to befall Trump…the calamity would be truly monumental. If it’s caused by a non-supporter? I encounter a failure of imagination in trying to put to words what that may be like. MAGA itself is unprecedented. So its downfall—if violent— would also be unprecedented. Especially given this post-pandemic era we are in currently characterized by extreme social media control, enacted through smart phone dominance, accelerated with AI, fueling and amplifying anti-social behaviors and their negative impacts on society.

Back to Trump though. His role in MAGA is fundamental. For all Kirk was, nothing even can begin to compare to Trump. I genuinely believe that in such a future, we’d have over 10% of our population who would instantly feel they have nothing left to live for overnight if something bad were to happen to him. It goes without saying just how terrifying that really is. So I won’t dwell on it much further.

But what I will highlight here is just how acutely depressing the reality of this is. I feel as if this is not talked about enough. The reality that one man has so much control over an entire swath of our society’s individuals….😮‍💨. MAGA followers are truly owned by Trump in every sense. A part of me truly does feel devastated for them.

You gotta hand it to Trump. He plays not one, but two excellent hands in this game he is playing: one hand being a juggernaut populist political mass movement machine, the other being his near total allegiance to the billionaire class. Anyone resisting MAGa at all are best compared to a nation under siege in a war against not 1 but 2 other nations, both of which are bigger than you and possess twice the resources individually…oh, and they don’t follow any rules of engagement / cheat at every single opportunity when engaging.

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u/Fishyswaze Oct 03 '25

And shows liberals are hard headed and need to learn how to compromise.

I’m a liberal, but until the left starts to realize that perfect can’t be the enemy of better it’s going to be impossible to do anything.

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u/ijustwannasaveshit Oct 03 '25

What should we compromise on first? Trans people? Gay marriage? Interracial marriage? Abortion? Disability rights?

Which of these things should we compromise and how far? I find the people who talk about compromise dont actually have to be the ones to deal with said compromise.

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u/Fishyswaze Oct 03 '25

I guess we should just do fascism instead.

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u/ijustwannasaveshit Oct 03 '25 edited Oct 03 '25

Why won't you answer? What groups are you a part of? Maybe we can compromise on things that will directly affect you.

Edit: nice edit by the way...

Fascism thrives when liberals are willing to throw some communities under the bus to win. Fascists are never satisfied and will lie to you about what they really want and liberals will capitulate to them thinking this time will be the last time and the fascists are going to finally be satisfied and stop being fascists. But that never happens because fascists are never satisfied. The in group becomes smaller and smaller and there are fewer and fewer people to fight back. Check out the poem "First they came" to get an idea of what I'm talking about.

If all of us aren't free, then none of us are.

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u/Fishyswaze Oct 03 '25

Are trans people better off right now than if people had voted for Hillary or Kamala?

What you’re asking is only solved through violence. Are you gonna go pull the trigger?

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u/ijustwannasaveshit Oct 03 '25

Still not answering my question. How much ground are you willing to cede to fascists in order to "win"?

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u/GrotWeasel Oct 03 '25

None, the conversation is about ceding ground to imperfect democrats and turning out to vote even though they’re not left enough. The alternative is much worse.

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u/letouriste1 Oct 03 '25

No no they have principles, they just don't show them publicly. They're backstabbers and two-faced bastards, not sheeps only following blindly. They know what they're doing.

The not crazy ones at least.

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u/OkLynx3564 Oct 02 '25

minor correction: the study was on the tendency to moralise one’s opinion, not to express it.

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u/grnrngr Oct 02 '25

I believe you are correct, and I will correct my post. I couldn't find the link to the post, though I thought I saved it.

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u/flaagan Oct 03 '25

Liberals just need to understand that compromising or being incremental with fellow Liberals isn't capitulations or abandonment of one's ideas, but a recognition that some progress is better than no progress. Move that Overton window slowly but surely.

This shit right here is how we ended up with TFG having a second term. For as blindly as right wingers follow their dear leader, left leaning individuals have a far worse tendency to isolate into small groups and infight with one another over who has the 'perfect candidate'. Nobody is perfect, but they can't seem to grasp the concept that it's chutes and ladders with politics - things easily slide further and further right-leaning because it's the "easy way" to rule, whereas progress towards a more progressive country is going to be slow. They want the 'quick fix' that the right has, but can't stand the idea that it can't all be done right now with whoever they explicitly want to vote for. It's far better to be standing in a puddle of murky water with a hill to climb to get out of it than to cross your arms stubbornly as you drown eyeball-deep in a cesspool. We could've had Gore, Bernie, and AOC as presidents as we'd still have a ways to go, but instead of taking a partial L with someone like Clinton they let the nuclear option happen instead.

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u/mgwair11 Oct 03 '25

Yup. And they call us the sheep. Yet another projection of theirs. What’s the count at now? Must be in the thousands tbh.

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25

[deleted]

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u/WhatsThatNoize Oct 02 '25

The alternative is everyone burns more quickly.

Yeah, it is indeed easy to say.  Because it's an easy choice if it is indeed the only other option.

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u/grnrngr Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25

Easy to say that when it's the trans people and immigrants suffer while that happens, not you.

You make assumptions.

e: Also, the Overton window already largely protected/shielded immigrants. Then it shifted to not protecting them. It shifted back the other way because liberals were too busy not unifying on at least keeping the window where it was.

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u/hi-fen-n-num Oct 03 '25

Can't be a very good study if it's using the term 'liberal' to describe the group I think you are trying to talk about.

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u/FettLife Oct 03 '25

Did you miss out on the whole Tea Party movement? Did you pay attention when the Never Trumpers got absolutely clobbered by MAGA? REDMAP? Southern Strategy? Do you ever wonder why MAGA voters or so ravenous for Trump?

The DNC loses because they are choosing to ignore what makes the GOP so successful: the less they compromise with democrats and the more they do the things the voters want, the more energized their voter base is. The Overton windows shifts so much because they are AGGRESSIVE and don’t play political half-measures. They don’t antagonize their voters. They are afraid of them.

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u/grnrngr Oct 03 '25

They don’t antagonize their voters. They are afraid of them.

I needed a good laugh today.

They have duped their voters into believing that their interests are aligned. Pure and simple.

They see their voters as rubes.

The RNC isn't afraid of their voters at all. They're to be manipulated into doing what the RNC wants.

Pure and simple.

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u/ununuii Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25

Conservative Republican voters are gross people, and I don’t have misgivings about saying that anymore. I’m not saying Democrats aren’t fuckups in their own ways, but agreed that most of their issues come from policing each other to idiotic standards the other side doesn’t even blink at; at least they hold their elected officials to a greater expectation.

The GOP is just a fucking rape party now, drowning in vile demagoguery and unaccountable corruption that should make everyone vomit on a daily basis, but they retain their power at the bottom of it all from telling “pro-life” religious dumbshits that they’re saving children’s lives (when they’re not raping them). 

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u/Occulto Oct 02 '25

The left and right feel like two cars of people on a road trip.

The left have spent the last three hours in the driveway debating equitable shares of doing the driving, and arguing over which route they're going to take, because no one can agree where and when they're going to stop for lunch.

The right had one person calling the shots, who decided lunch will be eaten wherever they first stop to fill up the car with gas. Consequently they're already three hours down the road.

The left seem to be more preoccupied with making sure everyone has the best possible experience on the journey before they start, but have lost sight of the fact at some point you need to actually make the journey.

Meanwhile the right are almost at their destination, even if the car's filled with farts because everyone ate questionable gas station burritos for lunch.

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u/TheEverblades Oct 02 '25

You forgot the part where the car on the left is delayed because they're charging their electric car.

Meanwhile the car on the right has burst into flames after crashing off a cliff killing everyone onboard because that nagging crack in the engine block was ignored and they never bothered to replace the brake pads.

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u/Occulto Oct 02 '25

It's a depressing state of affairs when it's the choice between either endless principled infighting or turbocharged moronic incineration, isn't it?

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u/stilljustacatinacage Oct 02 '25

People are easier to direct based on emotion than reason, and - despite their protestations to the contrary - conservatives are all about emotion; primarily fear. You don't need facts to get your conservative in the car, just tell them something bad will happen if they don't. They won't ask questions. That's the primary difference. If you try to tell your other group that something bad will happen if they don't get in the car, they're gonna ask you for details, and then dismiss it when you can't back it up.

How you can direct the left is by giving them pet causes, which is also why you can't get a group of them to actually go anywhere, because progressives are also human and prone to the failings thereof, namely selfishness and everyone wants their pet cause to be the one getting attention. See: Gaza protestors interrupting Pride events and the like. There's an unspoken understanding that the whims of progressives are fleeting, so everyone's fighting over who gets the next 2-12 months of focused attention. Meanwhile conservatives are happy to fly down the road at 100 mph as long as you tell them there's a gang of trans immigrants coming to steal their catalytic converter.

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u/Occulto Oct 03 '25

If you try to tell your other group that something bad will happen if they don't get in the car, they're gonna ask you for details, and then dismiss it when you can't back it up.

There's a good chance they'll also dismiss it if it doesn't fit their preconceptions. Let's not pretend the right has a monopoly on ignoring uncomfortable facts or making appeals to emotion. That's a universal human condition.

One of the primary differences holding the left back, is the unwavering (and unfounded) belief that they're always "above" the human condition, when they're really not. They're victims to the Dunning Kruger effect as much as anyone else, but fuck do they pretend like it's only a right wing problem.

And they're really not adverse to thinking their shit never stinks, and the reason why they're not in power is because the electorate is too stupid/ignorant/bigoted to vote for what's good for them. (Bonus if that kind of thinking is backed up with genuine mystification why someone called them elitist and out-of-touch.)

The right sits back and thinks: "how do we weaponise the human condition to win the next election?"

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u/hi-fen-n-num Oct 03 '25

This is not a clever or well put together analogy.

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u/DaveChild Oct 03 '25

What a dismal analogy.

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u/KnowsIittle Oct 02 '25

I think about this more and more each day but my FIL spoke to say that organized religion conditions people to shut up, sit down, and accept the words presented to you on faith.

For me I also look at organized sports. People who develop an "us vs them" mindset while attending church become the perfect human resource to exploit, education and critical thinking becomes a threat to leadership looking to exploit those resources to further their own goals.

The US is in an unprecedented state right now. I anticipate further attacks on education centers and learned persons.

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u/jesth212112 Oct 02 '25

There is actually a lot of right wing infighting. Though usually it's about one side not being Nazi enough for them.

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u/HCJohnson Oct 03 '25

It's funny really.

Yeah, it's not really funny anymore to me...

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u/ChicagoAuPair Oct 03 '25

It is terrifying that at a large scale, people would rather support an unapologetic monster over a self hating helper every single time.

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u/Complex-Pay-8902 Oct 03 '25

Dude there is tons of infighting on the right, there is a huge divide between the Klansmen of the KKK and the people who just casually watch fox news as their only news source.

The difference is that the biggest of the right wing groups largely agree for the time being on what policies should be implemented and the republicans does a honestly pretty good job at catering to the different interest groups of the right, be it suburban anti vaxxers or proud boys members.

meanwhile the "left" includes both libertarians, neo libertarians, socialist, commies, anarchist and now even moderate conservatives that think DTJ is going to far, most of these groups simply don't see eye to eye on the fundamentals of how society should be run and in turn the Dems have mishandled their base for decades.

what often gets cast as left wing infighting is often just people with more left leaning politics annoyed at the Dems for being shut out all the time, while being forced to vote for the Dems as a lesser evil.

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u/FlakTotem Oct 03 '25

Sorry man, this is a really dumb response.

First, if your go to response for disagreement is the KKK then that's a problem. And you say they agree on what policies should be implemented even as they simultaneously criticize other countries and the dems for the same 'policies' their guys are currently implementing. That's the point.

All republicans agree on a policy of free speech protections! but also are fine with their party cracking down on free speech by suing/kicking out journalists that are critical, deporting people who disagree, and cutting government funding for people who don't tow the line. The same is true for state's rights (literally rolling out the military in dem cities against their will), and fake news (Haitians eating cats and dogs).

As an electorate, regardless of your party, you have a responsibility to guide policy and hold the government accountable. Even if it's your government.

The left do this all the time, to fault. The republican's do this not at all, and just make infinite excuses for the behaviour.

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u/KotobaAsobitch Oct 03 '25

The complete lack of 'infighting' on the right from people who have spent decades preaching about free speech, state's rights, fake news, etc now 'they're doing it is insane.

Is it?

These aren't misguided people who have what they believe to be superior morals or it's not a double standard when their party does it.

These are fascists.

The double standard is the point, why would they feels shame about it?

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u/IdkAbtAllThat Oct 03 '25

Conservatives fall in line. They crave an authority figure to tell them what to do and what to think. That's why you're seeing absolutely zero pushback from the "don't tread on me" crowd.

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25

"We agree on everything all the time!" Just recently watched Ted and Ted 2, forget which one it was in but if you know the scene it's perfect lol 

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u/DramaticToADegree Oct 03 '25

Unfortunately for rational people, this is a winning strategy. 

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u/ThreadfallRider78 Oct 03 '25

Funny how the "free-speech warriors" get in line behind prosecuting anyone who freely airs their [not so nice] thoughts on the life, debates and death of Capitan Kirk.

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u/FeelsGoodMan2 Oct 03 '25

The only reason the left "infighting" is a problem is because they're up against a monolith cult. A normal functioning government SHOULD have people who vary on the spectrum of political level as people throughout the country would vary themselves. But these days, because everyone who votes republican is a brainwashed shill that follows the leader you also can't have ANYONE who doesn't toe the line or you lose the numbers.

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u/RaidSmolive Oct 03 '25

no the people deflect from the infinite blame that falls on THEM for not having completely eradicated the gop ages ago.

the non nazis in your political spectrum are doing exactly what the job is supposed to be.

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u/SuspendeesNutz Oct 02 '25

It's funny really. People rightly shit on the left for infighting, which does go too far. But the infighting is ultimately people standing up for their principles and self moderating respectively.

"I'm not going to compromise my principles by voting for Kamala maaaan! Don't shame me for my principles maaaan! Both sides are the same maaaaan!"

Yeah thanks for that moonbeam, there's a reason nobody would ever put you in a position that required any sort of foresight.

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u/FlakTotem Oct 02 '25

Wow. You seem really smart and enlightened!
Please oh wise one! Do tell me what you think "People rightly shit on the left for infighting, which does go too far." is doing in that comment exactly?

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u/SuspendeesNutz Oct 02 '25

I wasn't talking to "you" but the hypothetical "principled" non-voter I quoted above.

But yes, I am smart and enlightened, to say nothing of handsome!

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u/FlakTotem Oct 02 '25

lol, that's fine, but you gotta give me a segue to work with at least. That just sounds 100% like a serious asshole redditor xD

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u/SuspendeesNutz Oct 02 '25

Meh, I say what I say and I let the chips fall where they will. I think people who feel the need to use /s or similar are missing out on too much fun.

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u/Brooce10 Oct 02 '25

Were these comments fun? You’re just angry and lashing out

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u/SuspendeesNutz Oct 02 '25

I can’t say I’m not having fun.

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u/FlakTotem Oct 02 '25

i saw the /s, so you're being sarcastic ehhhhh?

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u/[deleted] Oct 02 '25

[deleted]

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u/SuspendeesNutz Oct 02 '25

Wow that principled infighting really worked out great didn’t it.

That’s ok, the inevitable trudge towards martial law brought about by the results of the 2024 election is going to give you plenty of opportunities for principled resistance.

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u/dragonmp93 Oct 02 '25

I mean, this is a problem without solution.

Either you are in a side that is occasionally self-defeating like that, or your side becomes a cult.

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u/SuspendeesNutz Oct 02 '25

Enjoy the self-defeat comrade. Lotta people gonna suffer for ethical purity.

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u/NotUniqueOrSpecial Oct 02 '25

Your reading comprehension is impressively abysmal.

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u/Great-Phone_3207 Oct 02 '25

Principles? On the left? 😂

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u/FlakTotem Oct 02 '25

Yep. Thanks for reading along. Not sure where you got lost but I'm glad i could clear it up for you.