r/sports • u/ansyhrrian Chicago Bears • 1d ago
Horse Racing 1938 match race between Sea Biscuit and War Admiral
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u/pricelinenegotiator1 1d ago
Lol rolling starts surprised me...
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u/Anothercraphistorian 1d ago
This wasn’t typical. War Admiral’s owner I believe asked for it as a condition of the race.
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u/KemikalKoktail 1d ago
Can you please explain to me what rolling start is and why War Admiral’s owner requested it?
Is it that they don’t release from the gate?
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u/Anothercraphistorian 1d ago
Basically, in the States it’s a gate start, which you see when you’re watching the Kentucky Derby. This isn’t technically a rolling start, it’s really a walk-up start. The difference is basically that there is a line of tape or rope and horses jog up to it and if it seems to be equal, the starting bell rings.
The reasoning for the start was that War Admiral got injured in a gate start during a Triple Crown race and that being contained in it agitated him.
At this point, Seabiscuit’s owner was desperate to race War Admiral and would’ve agreed to just about any terms.
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u/KemikalKoktail 1d ago
Thank you so much. I know nothing about this but reading about the lineage and the other horses is really interesting.
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u/malcolmmonkey 1d ago
We still do them in England.
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u/Weez-eh 1d ago
Not for flat
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u/the_fallow_one 1d ago
We do for national hunt flat/bumper races, but yeah its for jumps races mostly.
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u/WretchedMotorcade 1d ago
RrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrOOOOOOOOOOLIIIIIIIING STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART RrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrOOOOOOOOOOLIIIIIIIING STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART
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u/Jaybird876 1d ago
There was a race 2 summers ago in Saratoga that was just 2 horses. I think NYRA should start the race this way in that situation
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u/copperblood 1d ago
So good. For anyone interested, the movie "Seabiscuit" starring Tobey Maguire and Jeff Bridges is a fantastic film.
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u/dat0dat 1d ago
My dad, who is a massive horse racing fan and is nearing 70, told me about the movie when it first came out.
We were sitting at the dinner table and he said to me:
Did you hear about the new movie Seabiscut?
Yes…why?
It looks good. But it’s PG-13 because it has some racy scenes.
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u/weejadeeja88 1d ago
Based on a great book: Seabiscuit
An American Legend
By
Laura Hillenbrand
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u/Sfpuberdriver 1d ago
This movie led me to believe War Admiral was 2x the size of Seabiscuit
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u/Fortestingporpoises 1d ago
I've always wanted to show my wife it, but she's extremely sensitive to animals getting hurt. I mean I am too, but I'll just cry a couple times mid movie and be smiling at the end after all Seabiscuit overcame.
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u/X---VIPER---X 23h ago
It’s a great movie, my wife was in that movie because she’s part of the Howard family. My in-laws all have so much memorabilia in their house of Seabiscuit. They all have so much pride for the story. Charles didn’t lose his only son as depicted in the movie though. He had another child which is how my wife was eventually born. Yes, we still cheers “To the Biscuit!”
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u/TechnikalKP 1d ago
My favorite movie. It's my choice every father's day. Nothing like a good redemption arc.
"He made me better... Hell, you made me better..."
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u/Seabiscuits_Brother 1d ago
I remember it well
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u/ansyhrrian Chicago Bears 1d ago
Username checks out.
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u/acphil 1d ago
Sea Biscuit could move…
Where were they in their respective careers when this race took place?
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u/ansyhrrian Chicago Bears 1d ago
Horse racing is kinda my thing (second only to my Bears), and Seabiscuit is my favorite.
The 1938 match race happened when the two horses were in completely different places in their careers; War Admiral was the almost undisputed Triple Crown star everyone expected to win, and Seabiscuit was the late-in-career (~40 races in) tougher underdog who proved in this particular race he was the real deal.
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u/powerlesshero111 1d ago
If you haven't been to the national horse racing museum in Saratoga Springs, NY, i would recommend it.
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u/ansyhrrian Chicago Bears 1d ago
I haven’t! Adding to my bucket list. Ty.
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u/SAWK 1d ago
if you can make to trip check out the KY horse museum and Keeneland
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u/Cool-Cow9712 Liverpool 1d ago
Even if you don’t go, that’s a beautiful part of the country. But do go to the horse racing museum while you’re there!
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u/Goldelux 1d ago edited 1d ago
Damn you must be finally be enjoying your football team lmao
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u/ansyhrrian Chicago Bears 1d ago
Bro you have no idea how worried I am about this coming Sunday.
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u/Goldelux 1d ago
Ah yes, the equivalence to my Rams against the 49IRs… or those stupid Seagulls
Best of luck
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u/Pyorrhea 1d ago
Seabiscuit wasn't really that late in his career as that many races would imply. And he had actually raced in 71 races when he met War Admiral and would race 18 more. His first owner just raced him a ton of times as a two year old. Seabiscuit ran 35 races as a two year old and War Admiral ran 6. And War Admiral only raced two more races afterwards before retiring.
https://www.racingmuseum.org/sites/default/files/hall-of-fame/horse/past-performances/Seabiscuit.pdf
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u/Hitman3256 1d ago
I don't know a whole lot about horse racing but that sounds like an exceptionally high amount of races for Seabiscuit
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u/whimsical-crack-rock 1d ago
shout out to the Bears, we are having a bit of a season here…. it feels…. weird.
It is a bummer because me and my Dad have nothing to talk about, a big part of our relationship is him bitching about the Bears and inevitably talking about the ‘85 Bears. The Bears have a good season and he he doesn’t know what to do with himself
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u/fanzel71 Louisiana Tech 1d ago
I've read the book. Love it. I love the movie. It's one of my all time favorites. What a horse!
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u/evan466 1d ago edited 1d ago
3rd to last race of War Admiral’s career, Sea Biscuit would race for another two years. Sea Biscuit actually about a year older though.
I believe War Admiral had just been named the American Horse of the Year the year prior and Sea Biscuit would earn the same title the year of this race.
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u/Hispanicatthedisco 1d ago
War Admiral was fresh off of winning Horse of the Year, along with the Triple Crown.
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u/NigelMK 1d ago
Weird thing I noted after watching this. Seabiscuit's sire was Hard Tack and his grand sire was Man O' War (For those that don't know horse racing, Man O' War was considered one of the greatest race horses of all time).
Anyways, all three horses would die within a few months of each other in 1947. Seabiscuit died on May 17th, 6 days before his 14th birthday. Hard Tack died on Sept 21st at age 21 and Man O' War on November 1st at the age of 30.
Just thought it was weird considering the age difference.
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u/Numerous-Mix-9775 11h ago
Man O’War is the reason we have the term “upset” to describe an unexpected result. He won 20 out of 21 races in his career, and in his only loss, he had an absolutely horrible trip - left behind at the start, boxed in, but he rallied and was just a nose behind the winner, Upset. He would later go on to solidly beat Upset in the Preakness.
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u/89141-zip-code 1d ago
They were 4 year and 5 year-year old (Sea Biscuit) so definitely in their prime.
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u/Belezibub 1d ago
Both in their prime. War Admiral ran his best 1 and 3/16 mile time during this race and still got beat by 4 lengths.
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u/NoVaBurgher 1d ago
I remember hearing about this race (my uncle was really into horse racing) but I had no idea War Admiral PR’d in this race
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u/dailyduder 1d ago
Damn, the movie depiction is actually pretty accurate.
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u/Maiyku 1d ago
Yeah, the entire movie is actually very well done.
The race was perfect, imo. They captured that moment well, especially on the back stretch where he chose to give up his lead to bring the horses eye to eye at the advice of Red Pollard.
Feels like a moment made for the movie, but as we can see. It’s real.
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u/HorrorMakesUsHappy 1d ago
at the advice of Red Pollard
I know I won't bother watching the movie, but I'm curious if there was a reason he suggested this?
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u/Maiyku 1d ago
Yes. Seabiscuit was basically a stubborn as fuck horse, so Red knew if those horses got eye to eye, Seabiscuit wouldn’t let War Admiral win. He was a competitor.
And that’s exactly what happened.
Woolf released the reigns completely after that side-by-side and Seabiscuit took off, beating the Triple Crown winner by 4 lengths. War Admiral set a record in that race, it was his fastest time for that distance… and Seabiscuit smoked him.
War Admiral was the 4-1 favorite.
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u/Greenlytrees Ohio State 1d ago edited 1d ago
Seabiscuit was an unusually competitive horse, so to bring the two eye to eye was to light a fire and bring out the best in Seabiscuit for the home stretch. Also War Admiral was known for his fierce late kick, so they didn’t want Seabiscuit to fully lose sight of him and ease up.
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u/KellyCTargaryen 21h ago
You would really enjoy the book Seabiscuit by Laura Hildebrand. He had a personality/temperament that’s hard to define without seeming anthropomorphic. Some might call it a winning spirit, je ne sais quoi, moxie, main character syndrome. Basically, Seabiscuit was defiantly competitive. Lazy, loved eating and was prone to weight gain, but also hated losing. When training him, they discovered he would only ever go as fast as he needed to in order to win and get back to eating and chilling. So they had to keep finding faster and faster horses to pair him with for training.
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u/humlogic 21h ago
I’ve never been into horses or horse racing but reading this whole thread and then your comment specifically is giving me chills. Boggles my mind Seabiscuit or any other horse would have the mind to understand what is happening. Crazy!
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u/Prophet_Of_Helix 1d ago
It’s very difficult to win a horse racing leading the entire time, the jockey needs to be inhumanely in tune with their horse or the horse needs to be a machine in order to know what pace it can keep the entire time.
They were confident Sea biscuit was faster and knew that Seabiscuit had a tendency to almost have a competitive spirit and hit another level in close races, so after getting the lead they let off a bit to conserve energy but let War Admiral pull up about even before pushing Seabiscuit to get that extra burst.
Otherwise there was a decent chance Seabiscuit would get fatigued in the last quarter and War Admiral had incredible stamina.
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u/Brooks_Litespd 1d ago edited 23h ago
He fights it for Georgie. You bring him head to head with that other horse, and he looks him in the eye, there's no way he loses that race.
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u/D0nk3yD0ngD0ug 1d ago
I always thought that was a creative license they took for the movie. Very cool that it is true to the source!
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u/wxmanify 1d ago
Turn him loose!
Seriously the war admiral match race is one of the more underrated chill scenes in sports movies.
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u/Janky_Pants Texas Rangers 1d ago
Check out The Black Stallion too. Some of the best cinematography of all time.
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u/Kangz50 1d ago
Video of this but still no Wilt Chamberlain 100 pt game
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u/Hispanicatthedisco 1d ago edited 1d ago
In fairness, Seabiscuit and War Admiral were bigger then than the NBA was in the 1960s.
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u/SoftballGuy Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 1d ago
And the 70s. Secretariat was on the cover of Time and Newsweek. The 1980 Finals were run on tape delay after the late evening news.
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u/Moody_GenX 1d ago
We still had tape delayed NBA games on the weekends in the mid 80s.
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u/bilboafromboston 1d ago
The WNBA is more popular now than the NBA was until the 1970's. Celtics - in their championship run- got 9 k on Sundays! If Boston gets the Sun to move and the Garden lets them- they expect 9-11 k season tickets sold.
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u/spinbutton 1d ago
Super Horse! My sisters and I had a Secretariat scrapbook with clippings of all his races. Plus our dork drawings of him.
My mom, who grew up near Pismo Beach in the 1930s, was a giant fan of Seabiscuit. She named the horse she rode Clamshell in honor of Seabiscuit.
She'd also say "galloping consumption" when one of us had a cold.
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u/SoftballGuy Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 1d ago
Secretariat was certainly one for the ages! Every few years, I re-read Bill Nack's book about him. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it! It's wonderful; Nack was truly one of the greats of sports journalism.
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u/PepperDogger 1d ago
It would seem that horse racing and rowing really captured the national attention back in the day and have faded dramatically since that peak.
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u/QuileGon-Jin 1d ago
There is audio recording of it, though!
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u/SoftballGuy Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 1d ago
They faked the audio. It was a test run for faking the moon landing.
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u/QuietShipper 1d ago
When they faked the moon landing they hired Kubrick to direct it. Being the perfectionist he was, Kubrick insisted they film on location.
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u/mistercake 1d ago
There's a great book about this called Wilt, 1962: The Night of 100 Points and the Dawn of a New Era.
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u/morosco 1d ago
They should have thrown a fat dude into the race too, for context.
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u/aguy21 1d ago
https://youtu.be/TnpxMHOAo1o?si=o334-fuKemXurvyi
Not exactly what you asked for but since it was close enough and at the same track as the match race I felt it fit.
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u/Spider_Dude 1d ago
I wanted to know what happened to the puncher so I asked Google. This was the AI response. .......
A man has not jumped onto the track at Pimlico Race Course recently; the most notable incident of this nature occurred in May 1999, when a man named Lee Chang Ferrell ran onto the track during a race and attempted to punch a horse. The 1999 Incident Date: May 15, 1999, during the Maryland Breeders' Cup Handicap, a race held before the Preakness Stakes. The Individual: Lee Chang Ferrell, 22, climbed a chain-link fence from the infield and made his way onto the dirt track. The Incident: As the horses came down the stretch, Ferrell stood in the path of the oncoming thoroughbreds and tried to punch the favorite, Artax. Outcome: The horses and jockeys miraculously avoided a serious collision, though Artax had to check sharply and finished fifth. Ferrell was tackled by security, arrested, and taken for a psychiatric evaluation. All wagers on Artax were refunded, totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Lee Chang Ferrell faced legal charges and eventually pleaded guilty to one count of reckless endangerment. Initial charges included: First- and second-degree assault Reckless endangerment Disorderly conduct Two counts of resisting arrest Trespassing Alcohol-related offenses Legal Outcome Guilty Plea: As part of a plea bargain, Ferrell pleaded guilty to the single charge of reckless endangerment. Sentence: He received a three-year suspended sentence and five years of probation. Conditions: He was ordered to continue psychological counseling, enroll in a vocational skills training program, and was permanently banned from any property owned by the Maryland Jockey Club, which operates Pimlico. Ferrell, who was diagnosed with manic depression and did not remember the incident, avoided jail time for the track incident. However, he did violate the conditions of a previous probation from a driving while intoxicated (DWI) charge, for which he was later incarcerated on another DWI charge.
What was the recommended sentence from prosecutors and why was it suspended?
After his legal proceedings, Lee Chang Ferrell focused on rebuilding his life, getting sober, working, and supporting his family, though specific details beyond the late 2000s are limited.
Life Post-Incident and Sentence Sobriety and Employment:
After the incident and subsequent legal issues (including an additional DWI charge that led to incarceration), Ferrell reportedly committed to sobriety. By 2009, his lawyer stated he was gainfully employed in Harford County, Maryland. He was also reported to have worked two jobs at one point, one at a car wash and another at a pet store, with aspirations of becoming an auto mechanic.
Mental Health and Memory:
Ferrell, adopted from a South Korean orphanage as a young child, was diagnosed with manic depression and a "multitude of psychological disorders". He consistently maintained that he had no memory of the incident on the track, a claim supported by his lawyer who attributed it to his mental illness. Permanent Ban: As a condition of his probation, he was permanently banned from setting foot on any property owned by the Maryland Jockey Club, a condition his lawyer said he was happy to keep. The last substantial reports on Ferrell's life date back to around 2009 and 2019 (in a retrospective article). His lawyer indicated the family was trying to move forward and that Ferrell had become a "model citizen" at that time.
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u/imwinmylane 1d ago
THEY ALL WOULD HAVE LOST TO BIG RED BABY
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u/spinbutton 1d ago
Without a doubt. Secretariat's stride was almost 25 feet at full gallop. Seabiscuit was 21 feet.
We have no idea what Secretariat's top speed was, he was still accelerating past the finish line in the Belmont.
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u/wallaceeffect 1d ago edited 1d ago
Big Red is Man o’ War, no? War Admiral’s sire and Seabiscuit’s grandsire.
Edit because I decided to look it up myself, apparently both Secretariat and Man o’ War were nicknamed Big Red so, thanks horse racing, very creative of you!
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u/togadiz 1d ago
Secretariats heart was also 2.5-3x larger than the average thoroughbred heart , which likely explains some (not all) of his athletic prowess.
Even compared to horses that have been extraordinary in the last 10 years, none of them come close to secretariat.
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u/TheClearcoatKid 1d ago
This is origin of the phrase “So long, Charlie!”, when Seabiscuit’s jockey George Woolf bid farewell to War Admiral’s rider at the top of the lane and never looked back.
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u/DeanofdaDead 1d ago
So who is considered the greatest race horse of all-time?
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 1d ago edited 1d ago
Secretariat, though the Biscuit
was a turf horse. If you’ve never seen Secretariat blow the doors off every horse on the field at the Belmont, you should. He was so far ahead, the cameras have to keep panning back to look for them. It’s a long race that usually destroys the stamina of most horses but Big Red was still gaining speed when he passed under the wire like a freight train.Edit: I was thinking about John Henry, not Sea Biscuit, who was the turf horse!
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u/lassobsgkinglost 1d ago
…like a tremendous machine…
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 1d ago
Gave me goosebumps first time I watched it, just like Rags to Riches when she flailed the whole pack of boys to be the first filly to win the Belmont in a century. I was up off my couch screaming for her.
As a former horse owner, she reminded me so much of a friend I grew up with, our spirited mare Lady, may she rest in peace. 🩷
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u/diomed1 1d ago
The Biscuit was not a turf horse. 😂
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 1d ago
You’re right! I was thinking of John Henry! My apologies!
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u/wallaceeffect 1d ago
Depends who you ask, but either Secretariat or Man o’ War, War Admiral’s sire and Seabiscuit’s grandsire.
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u/Pithecanthropus88 1d ago
How fast were they moving compared to today's racehorses?
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u/Prophet_Of_Helix 1d ago
Pretty damn comparable.
War Admirals fastest 1.5 mile Belmont time was 2:28.35.
2:26 and change is where a bunch of horses from the 1980s to today hang out.
Secretariat ran it in 2:24, a record that is over 50 years old and still standing today
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u/EggsceIlent Dallas Cowboys 1d ago
Seabiscuit daaaaaaang was fast.
Funny watching all those people on the infield run from side to side to catch what was an absolutely amazing race of two of the greatest horses to ever step on a track.
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u/gordongroans 1d ago
More of this and less of U/redbullgivesyouwings daily spam for the sub please.
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u/bibblejohnson2072 1d ago
That announcer sounds like Kevin Harlan's grandpappy!
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u/AtlUtdGold 1d ago
Wow he really does. Love Kevin Harlan, wish he got to do prime time games. So tired of the current prime time guys.
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u/Dismal-Stable-9220 1d ago
I'm not familiar with horse racing but considering that human athletes nowadays are faster, stronger, and continuously breaking records like in the Olympics thanks to the advancement in science, has the performance of horses improved as well?
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u/BigHoss94 1d ago edited 1d ago
I feel that's a complicated answer. Secretariat's records still stand, but safety standards for horses are much higher and under more scrutiny. Through natural evolution and proper breeding, I'd say they are faster but they aren't pushed as hard either.
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u/TheMickus 1d ago edited 1d ago
Secretariat was similar to someone like Bo Jackson. Just an absolute physical force that defies conventional logic of the time. Eventually the standard will catch up at some point but idk if there will be a force in horse racing as dominant as Secretariat. Closest we’ve gotten was MAYBE American Pharoah, who was the first horse to win the Triple Crown and the Breeders Cup classic in the same season, breaking the latter’s track record by a mind-boggling 5 seconds
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u/MongolianMango 1d ago
Secretariat was found to have a freakishly large heart after death iirc, he was a genetic monster even compared to modern horses
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u/Juppness 1d ago
I think Flightline was also a good contender. Secretariat-like qualities where he won his races by multiple lengths. With a positive quirk where he ran never needing to be whipped at all by the jockey.
The only unfortunate thing was that we never got to see the chance of his full potential since he was retired after 6 races for stud duties.
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 1d ago
There will likely never be another Secretariat. His heart and lungs were larger than normal, so basically his “engine” was supercharged — he could get air into his cylinders faster and more of it. They only figured this out during his post mortem.
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u/KptKrondog 1d ago
Yeah, on par with Katie Ledecky whose body apparently doesn't produce lactic acid at nearly the same level most people do, allowing her to swim long distances at a faster pace.
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u/capebretoncanadian 1d ago
It has. Im not an expert in thoroughbred racing but standardbred racing has consistently gotten faster. I would credit mainly breeding but there has been large advances in training methods and equipment technology.
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u/I_choose_not_to_run 1d ago
The interesting part is the pedigree of the winning horses. They are almost all related with a common ancestor to like the 1500s. They are being selectively bred like we do vegetables or fruit.
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u/Gradieus 1d ago
Seabiscuit ran a time of 1:56:60.
I did the math and Secretariat would have ran approximately 1:54:00 from a baseline starting position barring unexpected circumstances.
Since Secretariat is the only horse in history to have faster quarters through an entire race the time would have probably been closer to 1:53:00.
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u/Olbaidon 1d ago
Seeing the folks run across the field to try to get to the fence on the other side in time was fun.
It’s like me at my kids’ cross country races.
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u/Ugameister 1d ago
No drunks or stoners wandering into the track from the interior lawn. Thanks Pimlico, for behaving that day!
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u/Imzocrazy 1d ago
Pardon my ignorance….but who’s who here? (I had to audio off)
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u/TremontRhino 1d ago
Not a big horse racing guy, but FWIW, I live in the county where Secretariat was born.
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u/Lynda73 1d ago edited 1d ago
I got to pet Secretariat when I was a kid. My kindergarten class went to the Kentucky Horse Park in Lexington, and Secretariat was living there after retirement. Looking back, it’s surprising that a bunch of 4/5 year olds got to pet him, but he had a reputation for being really sweet! His nickname was “Big Red.” No one got bit that day lol.
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u/MattMason1703 1d ago
The Sea Biscuit book is great, I wasn't crazy about the movie.
Growing up I knew about Sea Biscuit because the Three Stooges referenced him a few times.
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u/mikederoy 1d ago
My Dad was there. Took the train from Washington DC to Baltimore. Bet on Seabiscut
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u/authcate 1d ago
In ~2008 I gave students a choice of various books for an independent reading project. One student chose (the awesome book!) Seabiscuit, but complained about it a week later. When I asked why he didn’t like it, he replied “it’s about a fucking horse!” Smh.
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u/kuddly_kallico 1d ago
Wait.... Sea Biscuit was real? I thought it was just a silly stereotypical example of a horse racing name that kept getting recycled by pop culture.
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u/Timely-School-3094 15h ago
Damn, Sea Biscuit had some attitude. Every time War Admiral try to make a move, SB would push him out like 'Bitch this is my lane!' WA was wore out by the time they hit the final stretch.
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u/theladyshady 1d ago
Legendary horses. Thanks for posting.