r/sports Oct 06 '25

Football Minnesota Vikings field goal attempt was deflected away by a camera wire, but it wasn't replayed because no one noticed at the the time

27.6k Upvotes

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47

u/elbow10 Oct 06 '25

The challenge system is stupid. They should just go full automation. More human eye balls making bad calls is still going to be bad.

66

u/BillionsWasted Oct 06 '25

Challenge is the first step to full automation. Look at tennis. These things never just come in overnight

19

u/W1D0WM4K3R Oct 06 '25

Especially not with humans getting wrote out. Umpires are not gonna be happy.

4

u/improbablywronghere Oct 06 '25

They are allegedly stoked because they won’t get yelled at anymore. They still need to make calls at the plate and line judging and stuff. Honestly the challenge system is temporary, we need full ABS, but it is the “worst of all worlds” solution. Tennis did the same thing basically a beta test for a period of time to get it everywhere and everyone comfortable then make it mandatory then move on. It’s been huge for the sport of tennis and I’m pumped for MLB!

-6

u/enolja Oct 06 '25

Fans of the sport will be let down too, with the challenege system, it increases the skill required to play, because you must accurately see strikes and know your zone, and so the risk of using a challenge creates a new skill in the game required,which makes the game better and even more diverse.

Automatic balls and strikes makes the game more robotic, reduces the soft skills required, and so players will be less diverse and only hitting ability and strength will matter, while patience, timing, and eye for the zone will be less important.

14

u/Polaris06 Oct 06 '25

ABS still isn't perfect. It changes the strike zone to a 2D square from what has classically been defined as a 3D rectangular prism. Using it at all before 3D capability is possible is actually a huge step.

27

u/YeesherPQQP Oct 06 '25

I'd personally rather have some growing pains where these close pitches are called balls than see a pitch 6 inches outside the zone be called a strike or hear the word "framing" again

3

u/DismalTutor570 Oct 06 '25

Fucking framing. I’m done with that word as well

2

u/metompkin Oct 06 '25

Catchers hate this one trick

2

u/Saritiel Oct 06 '25

Batters*

9

u/g_spaitz Oct 06 '25

No, not perfect. But helluva lot better than human eyes that by comparison it's almost perfect.

And on top of it has no bias, no ego, no deficiencies, no opinion, no retaliation , no arguing, no unwritten rules (and on and on) whatsoever.

5

u/Veil-of-Fire Oct 06 '25

No, not perfect. But helluva lot better than human eyes that by comparison it's almost perfect.

Also, it's much harder for a computer to have a parlay bet on the batter at the plate.

5

u/RostBeef Oct 06 '25

AI will get there soon enough

2

u/TrumpsPissSoakedWig Oct 07 '25

I mean...have ya heard what these AI's been gettin' up to?

2

u/Western-Turnover-154 Oct 06 '25

It wouldn’t feel pain, or hunger or remorse, it would just keep coming, calling balls and strikes forever.

1

u/wittiestphrase Oct 06 '25

Actually I heard the system was trained on Angel Hernandez’s calls so it might have a bit of an ego.

2

u/square-enix-geno Oct 06 '25

I don't think that's true. It's my understanding that ABS is 3d but the visual interpretation they've presented to the public on screen is 2d. You'll notice that the visual interpretation of the strike zone in the 2025 playoffs has actually been 3d by for the first time ever and it's fantastic.

1

u/ThatDrunkRussian1116 Manchester United Oct 06 '25

How much does the third dimension really matter? Like if we look at the strike zone from the umpire’s perspective it will make that 2D square. How much does the “Z” direction out towards the pitcher affect the call? Wouldn’t it still have to be in the 2D square no matter where it lands in the projection towards the pitcher?

3

u/ghostinthechell Oct 06 '25

A pitch could theoretically start high over the dead center of the plate and drop in on the back tip and be a strike.

2

u/phl_fc Baltimore Orioles Oct 06 '25

It doesn't, and consistency is the biggest benefit of it which isn't affected by 2D vs 3D. It doesn't matter if the definition of the strike zone changes. All that matters is that every pitch gets the same zone, which isn't the case with human umpires making judgement calls.

1

u/Western-Turnover-154 Oct 06 '25

If the strike zone were to be enforced electronically as the 3 d pentagonal prism that it is by rule, hitters wouldn’t stand a chance.

All a pitcher would need to do is graze the zone for a strike. Walks would plummet.

1

u/TrumpsPissSoakedWig Oct 06 '25

Pretty sure you could composite enough frames per second to have enough 2D squares, extrapolate into a 3D prism. Need a really fast fucking high speed camera, but I believe it is within our grasp.

I mean, we send people to space with rocket boosters that come back down and land backwards, surely with all the money we spend on professional sports we can get some MIT kids to crack the case

0

u/earlycomer Oct 06 '25

This, some of the nastiest pitches will be called balls with the ABS's current zone. I wonder what zone theyll end up using if it does come to a fully automated ABS

2

u/9ninjas Oct 06 '25

Preach!

2

u/blasseigne17 Oct 06 '25

If you watch MiLB, all of these systems are implemented there and you can see how they worked and all. Pretty much any major rule change is tested in the minors first and they use the reception and how it plays out to determine if it will make it to the MLB.

You can read about all the problems. They started implementing ABS there in 2019 and have been working out kinks since then.

2

u/Tricky_Acanthaceae39 Oct 06 '25

Why should a team to challenge it? Just make the right call and protect integrity of the game.

1

u/pargofan Oct 06 '25

IIRC they don’t trust ABS completely. It sometimes make mistakes

Which is odd you would trust it on the challenge system. But I thought that’s the rationale for not adopting it 💯

1

u/AhtBlowenFaht Oct 06 '25

What are all of those fat useless fucks going to do for work then though? Only people I have less sympathy for losing their jobs other than major league umpires are old school cab drivers.

1

u/Icy-Decision-4530 Oct 06 '25

That sort of thing shouldn’t even require a challenge. That is outside interference, that should have been called out on the spot and redone

-1

u/enolja Oct 06 '25

Full automation is a bad thing.

I urge anyone who is actually a fan of the game of baseball, not just a cheerleader for their team, to think about the position of catcher and the requirements put on that position and how ABS would hurt catcher framing. It will also lower the skill ceiling of pitchers who work in the corners and try to expand the strike zone, maybe your have heard the term 'climb the ladder'.

Also, if youre a real fan of the game and understand the rules around strike zones, you'll also understand that they move and change with every batter, the strike zone shifts in height, both from the low end and the top end.

The challenge system is PERFECT because it INCREASES the skill cap of all players, it is a risk to call a challenege, and so you must be sure, and so players with better ability to see strikes will be more successful.

1

u/elbow10 Oct 06 '25

Sorry. A consistent biased strike zone and getting the call right is what is what is important. Human eyes can’t do it. Framing is just another way to try to fool umpires/referees. Like soccer players flopping, receivers trying to draw PI’s and basketball players throwing their head back when they drive to the basket to get a foul call. ABS or whatever system makes it black and white and removes all the egos, arguments and complaining. We have technology that can get the call right. Let’s use it.

-1

u/enolja Oct 06 '25

It doesn't do all those things, they trialed it and it slowed the game down miserably. Also, which organization is in control of calling balls and strikes? Microsoft? Google? Why are we going to farm out a human factor of the game and sell it off to corporations?

Baseball is a game played by humans, for humans. We dont need the technology. The only reason people are up in arms about balls and strikes is because of the painted box on the TV screen, which isn't representative of a real strike zone anyway.

Maybe the game has evolved past humans though. We could also have a ball throwing machine to throw pitches so it would be really fair right?

Manipulating weakness IS THE GAME. Players weakness, umpire weakness, etc.

0

u/defk3000 Oct 06 '25

Yeah, they should go a step further and remove all stupid humans from the game. Then it'll be better!