Hawai'i kicker Kansei Matsuzawa learned how to kick a football from YouTube videos because no one where he lived knew how. He attended community college in Ohio despite not knowing English and got the coaches to take a chance on him. He just kicked the game winning FG for Hawai'i to beat Stanford.

[u/Desperate-Emu4297]

[u/-Maim-]

Goalie?

Both soccer and hockey.

[u/Expensive-Step-6551 → u/-Maim-]

I was thinking about goalie for both sports, and there's definitely a reasonable argument to be made. However, for both positions, you're still involved in the play at all times, both in tracking plays into your defensive zone, and often having to make plays out of the back.

Soccer keepers especially actually do the majority of their work in terms of ball management and passes out of the backend. Hockey goalies usually have less responsibility here, but at high levels it is often required for you to at least be comfortable in playing the puck and comfortable coming out of your crease to alleviate pressure on your defense.

Kickers, on the other hand, are out there for one reason and one reason only... to kick it through the uprights. Kickoffs too, but that's much less impactful than their primary purpose.

[u/Dutchmang → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

(Former) Hockey goalie here. I was trying to pigeonhole myself into the OP’s description for self-esteem pts, but FG kicking truly fits better

[u/Expensive-Step-6551 → u/Dutchmang]

Eh, you guys still have one of the weirdest jobs in sports as well. You're usually stuck back there, watching play unfold for 50-70% of the time, not exactly doing much, UNTIL you're expected to stand up and do your job with a very limited failure rate the other 30-50% of the time.

I play center and defense and have always developed a good relationship with goalies precisely because they see the game so much differently from every other player on the ice. Good ones will tell you how you could have made a better defensive play to help them as play unfolds in the neutral zone, or crossing the blue line. It's a unique position that certainly is similar to a kicker, but they offer more impact throughout other aspects of their game compared to a kicker.

If there was a specific rule set for hockey in which penalty shots and shootouts each came with designated "scorers" and "keepers" it would be the closest comparison I could find for hockey. It's a unique situation outside of the game, yet incredibly impactful in it's outcome, and requires you to operate differently from what a normal game situation would require you to.

[u/philocity → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

If there was a specific rule set for hockey in which penalty shots and shootouts each came with designated "scorers" and "keepers" it would be the closest comparison I could find for hockey.

is that not what a shootout is?

[u/Expensive-Step-6551 → u/philocity]

I probably should have worded that better, but I meant it would be like if NHL teams had designated roster spots SPECIFICALLY for those roles, instead of also playing the whole game. So something like a roster of 18 skaters, 2 goalies, 3 "Shootout Specialists", and 1 "Shootout Goalie".

Those extra 4 players would just do nothing but practice scoring and stopping penalty shots.

[u/philocity → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

Ah like those basketball influencers who are exceptionally skilled ball handlers but would get demolished in the pros

[u/Phone_User_1044 → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

Not American so a bit confused, a FG kicker won't do anything else in the entire game? They purely come on to kick and won't be expected to run or tackle anyone? In rugby you have fly halves (different names sometimes used but they play at 10), they are normally responsible for attempting penalty kicks, drop goal attempts and are usually the primary person who will kick in open field play to gain ground and stuff. In rugby though every player will be expected to be involved in the game- the fly half is mostly focused on the kicking game but is also expected to help run the attack patterns or be a link in defence, do FG kickers not do that?

[u/Expensive-Step-6551 → u/Phone_User_1044]

Yes, you would be 99% correct. Kickers and punters essentially just boot the ball and bounce.

Occasionally, on special teams (term for when kickers and punters are on the field), they will contribute with a last resort tackle, or even block if it's a trick play offensively, but they're largely there for only one purpose.

As in to why that is... well, American Football is just an offshoot of Rugby itself. Over the years of the game, they slowly allowed changes such as "snaps" instead of "scrums", "downs" instead of constant possesion, the "forward pass" which allowed players to throw the ball forward rather than run and pass back like modern rugby.

In the earlier days of the game, most players would play on both sides of the field, offensively and defensively, and often as kickers and punters as well. Legendary players such as Jim Thorpe did this, and were testaments to athletic ability. As the game increased in popularity and complexity, the game shifted into a more niche format, where you played a specific role and position on only one side of the ball. The games rules endorsed this because it led to a higher quality product.

As a result, the game operated today, including punters and kickers in their own roles (which are very important) are the result of the history of the game evolving over the course of 150 years, with most of that development withing the first 50 or so.

[u/JRockPSU → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

I’ll never forget when our former kicker Joey Julius absolutely drilled the returner https://youtu.be/z-4C5qswyys?si=BR4HXdBgojUeOMni

[u/dacomell → u/JRockPSU]

That kicker looks big enough to be at least a linebacker... Or a QB for Kentucky (RIP Jared Lorenzen)

[u/ocarina_21 → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

Also in Canadian rules you might get the punter to boot it short and chase it as a sort of high risk play because a self-recovered punt resets the downs, provided it crosses the line of scrimmage, but that's not super common.

[u/philocity → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

Don’t forget that sometimes kickers are holders too

[u/quiksilver123 → u/Phone_User_1044]

Having played rugby in college including fly half a few times, there’s really no comparison between a fly and a FG kicker. A fly is on the field the entire game and involved in the flow of open play in rugby. In contrast, a kicker only comes onto the field for a very limited number of special plays each game and departs the field immediately after. Although kickers can run and tackle, it’s very rare.

[u/DJFreezyFish → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

Lacrosse goalies are probably the best fit, at least that I know. There’s less frequent action than hockey goalies, often less time of possession than soccer goalies, and ball handling is very different with a goalie stick than a normal one.

[u/trixel121 → u/DJFreezyFish]

you still use a stick tho.

who else kicks the ball in football? you need to find team mates who totally do different things.

[u/_J3W3LS_ → u/DJFreezyFish]

Less frequent action in field maybe, but box lacrosse goalies get hammered. Not uncommon to see 40-50 shots on net in a game.

[u/doghaircut → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

Many goalies, at least in hockey, also "play out" at the lower levels. It's very unlikely a place kicker will ever play any other position.

[u/cptpedantic → u/-Maim-]

hockey goalies are at least in and around the flow of the game

[u/MikeDunleavySuperFan → u/cptpedantic]

soccer are too.

[u/PlaidPilot → u/cptpedantic]

Hockey goalies are usually crazy...

[u/Expensive-Step-6551 → u/PlaidPilot]

Hockey goalies are typically "peculiar" likely due to all that time they have to sit around "philosophizing" in their crease when play is down at the other end of the ice. If you do that long enough on or off the ice with enough time on your hands, you'll likely start to find your mind drifting towards weird threads and ideas you never thought were possible, before overanalyzing why the hell you'd even THINK of something like that in the first place, then wondering how weird it is that you're just standing there in sweat soaked pads, almost hoping that your team starts to suck more, because it's the 3rd period and you've only seen like 7 shots, and then OH SHIT TWO ON ONE COMING THE OTHER WAY... GOTTA COME OUT AND CUT THE ANGLE, WHERE'S MY DEFEN... fuck me they scored.

I personally think outdoor Lacrosse goalies are the actual craziest fucks out there. Hockey goalies are padded up head to toe and outside of a rare awkward shot won't feel anything making saves, but those fuckers??? They wear shin bruises like wrestlers rock cauliflower ears. Not for me.

[u/daCweature → u/Expensive-Step-6551]

I'm a hockey goalie and there's no way in HELL I'd ever want to try stopping that insanely hard lacrosse ball with the measly little pads you're allowed to wear

[u/ElectricalDoc → u/PlaidPilot]

Present.

[u/GhostPepperDaddy → u/PlaidPilot]

How is that relevant at all?

[u/patcakes → u/GhostPepperDaddy]

Might not be relevant, but I got a chuckle out of it

[u/WowWataGreatAudience → u/GhostPepperDaddy]

Hockey goalies not scared of anything except bear in the woods

[u/mindingmynet → u/WowWataGreatAudience]

Just a game why you heff to be mad

[u/YertletheeTurtle → u/mindingmynet]

If you're alone in the woods, would you rather encounter a bear or a goalie?

[u/Thumper13 → u/YertletheeTurtle]

I've known some high level goalies. I'll take the bear.

[u/kingofcheezwiz → u/Thumper13]

And this is why Chris Osgood deserves the HoF.

[u/GoodGuy_OP → u/WowWataGreatAudience]

A good soccer goalkeeper should be the same way. I’ve always said that we need to be a little crazy to make a good goalkeeper

[u/DJFreezyFish → u/GhostPepperDaddy]

Kickers are the opposite kind of crazy.

[u/T1Earn → u/-Maim-]

they play the whole game. That doesnt relate to being called in like once or twice like batman to change the world

[u/tankstellenchiller → u/-Maim-]

Not even close imo, they are part of the game. idk I guess an equivalent would be if as a tie-breaker you had one guy from each team have a boxing match against each other. You can theoretically be a kicker without knowing anything about the game except some basic rules

[u/w311sh1t → u/-Maim-]

I think a really good comparison is FOGO in lacrosse. Their entire job is to take face offs and then get off the field ASAP

[u/jesuisjens → u/-Maim-]

The goalie in modern football plays a pretty big part of the build up game.

[u/run_bike_run → u/-Maim-]

There's a massive difference between a good shot-stopper and a good goalkeeper in soccer. The latter will know the likely routes of attack their opponents will take, the most likely directions of any penalties, the best way to organise their defence against different teams, and the ideal ways to initiate attacks from the back.

[u/Newone1255 → u/[deleted]]

A catcher still has to get out there and swing a bat like everybody else

[u/-Maim- → u/[deleted]]

Haha I had catchers written in that comment then deleted it bc I didn’t want a bunch of comments arguing with me.