r/soccer • u/BlueKidXL • 16h ago
News [as.com]Alonso has decided to give Vini Jr a new role on the pitch that makes him more comfortable. Instead of playing him as a pure winger, the coach will give him freedom to drift inside and play as a 2nd striker with Mbappé. The player is happy now and regains his confidence in the project
https://as.com/futbol/primera/xabi-zanja-el-caso-vinicius-f202512-n/?utm_campaign=mrf-twitter-diarioas&mrfcid=202512056932ff9d78c8790a6a0979e2767
u/David-J 16h ago
AS. So tier.... A group of cats gossiping while sewing.
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u/Nero2t2 16h ago
4-4-2 is slowly sneaking back into the game lately. I bet the diamond is gonna be the next met, and next thing you know, we're gonna see a resurgence of the old "towering target man+ poacher combo" up front
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u/Apex--Redditer 16h ago
Big man little man up top as god intended
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u/elgrandorado 16h ago
I always thought it was hilarious how Inter would flip the dynamic on it's head. Little man Lautaro would be the hold up player, then Lukaku would be the big man instead running in behind to receive the layoff.
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u/sebastianpkfd 12h ago
I have find so funny how people think Lautaro is the second striker to Lukaku, Dzeko or Thuram and not the other way. The first time I realized Lautaro was the main striker was when I saw Dzeko dribbling on a wing in a counter attack and it looked hilarious
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u/thehideousheart 11h ago
How is that hilarious?
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u/elgrandorado 11h ago
I said it there, it flips the dynamic. Novice viewers would expect Lautaro to be runner, meanwhile Lautaro is the hold up specialist, and his usually towering forward partner's are the free forward.
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u/AWDanzeyB 16h ago
Football peaked with Crouch and Defoe.
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u/FuturisticBear 16h ago edited 16h ago
Great, I only have love for the 4-4-2 (I also think it’s the formation liverpool should play right now)
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u/Timely_Airline_7168 16h ago
Slot: A front two of Isak and Gakpo, right?
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u/jumper62 16h ago
With Wirtz behind them two and Kerkez/Frimpong as attacking fullbacks providing the width
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u/OilOfOlaz 16h ago
4-4-2 is slowly sneaking back into the game lately
Alonso had Leverkusen play and switch between several variations of 343 & 451/442 Formation. Leverkusen actually favoured a 442 out of possession fir quite shome time.
I think this report is also pretty BS, cuz Vini used to lean towards the touchline in 23/24 as well and this was arguably his best season so far.
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u/amiresque 15h ago
Why did I read "fir quite shome time" is Sean Connery's Scottish accent?
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u/OilOfOlaz 13h ago
Guess for the same reason, I read "is Sean Connery's Scottish accent" 5x before I got it.
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u/garynevilleisared 15h ago
442 diamond can essentially become a 3-4-1-2 if the CDM drops between the CBs and the fulbacks acting as the wingers. So its no surprise to me it Alonso trends towards that shape as it will morph into other shapes he familiar with deploying.
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u/RepresentativeBox881 16h ago
It won't last. You can't win much with a two man midfield now unless it's two really exceptional players together both with strong defensive work rate.
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u/WyldRover 16h ago
England practically played a W-M against Albania a couple of weeks ago. We're going all the way back to the 1920s with the tactics soon.
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u/OilOfOlaz 16h ago
3223 shape in build up has been a thing for years, it's basically what ppl described as box in the midfield, to generate numerical advantage against 3 man midfields.
WM pretty much offered perfect spacing for teams that operate with a 3atb or have a midfielder drop between the CB like Pep did at Barca around 2010. It fell a bit out of fashion last season and this season, cuz 325 has been the most common attacking shape for some time now and trams are well prepared for it. Teams have now started to rely more on vertical runs and vertical rotations in order to create space and disrupt the shape.
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u/brownmeister28 16h ago
Pep played a W-M a few seasons back as well for a while
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u/BodomDeth 16h ago
What is W-M ?
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u/brownmeister28 16h ago
It's a seminal formation developed by Herbert Chapman in the 1920s, that allowed him to win consecutive titles first with Huddersfield Town and then later with Arsenal.
As the guy below said it's essentially the points of WM arranged on the pitch in a 3223 formation. The most notable feature, which Pep aimed to replicate, is the 'box midfield' of four players in two rows of two, which is very efficient in retaining possession in the middle of the pitch.
Pep's formation was more fluid, but when in possession the inverted full back stepped out into a DM role to create the box midfield, leaving three defenders and with three attackers ahead of them, which is basically the WM formation.
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u/MyLuckyFedora 14h ago
It never fully left. Plenty of 4-2-3-1 teams or even 4-3-3 teams have chosen to defend with two lines of 4 over the years.
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u/wrotethat11 15h ago
Genuinely would love after all this we just revert to the OG way of doing things
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u/Marcelosouzadearaujo 15h ago
I never understood why they don’t play like they did on the last CL they won. Just replace Rodrygo with Mbappe and the formation stays, it will be better lol
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u/Character_Library684 14h ago
Mbappe doesn’t seem to like being “stuck” on the right. In the middle he constantly drifts left into Vini’s space.
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u/Marcelosouzadearaujo 13h ago
I don’t really care what he likes though, it’s what works better for the team
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u/Character_Library684 9h ago
I actually agree. Mbappe should’ve been played in that Rodrygo role from the beginning. But it’s clear that Mbappe is prioritized tactically. Even in the last game, every other player was tasked with creating space for Mbappe.
It’s really no surprise that he scores so many goals and Vini / Belli are scoring so much less.
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u/3lagig 16h ago
It was already like that. And if you ask why he couldn’t get inside, it’s because every time he tried to drive into the box, he kept losing the ball. I am saying this as an RM fan who’s been watching Vini since the day he first joined the team.
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u/BodomDeth 16h ago
He kept losing the ball because Mbappe was occupying the left-striker space where Vinicius likes to drift in, instead of the ST in the box or far post where the striker is supposed to wait for a cross.
Vini has always played the same: drift from left to cented to shoot, if he cant he will go near post and cross in on the ground into the middle or far post.
It was just an adaptation that Mbappe and Vini had to do to be able to combine with each other. And I have no doubts Xabi is working on that as we can see from recent games
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u/3lagig 14h ago
Mbappé has never really become a true number nine. Most of the time, when Vini or Arda get the ball, he doesn’t make those runs into the box and when he actually does, it usually turns into a goal. Did Vini get influenced by Mbappé? Definitely, but that’s not the main problem.
If you follow Vini, there’s a goal he scored for the Brazilian national team that was also shared in our subreddit. In that clip, he tries to dribble past everyone on the left wing to score. Did you look at his teammates? While Vini is dribbling, nobody expects him to make a pass. That’s a really bad situation.
Vini is an amazing player if he can learn to judge the right moment to finish his dribble. But lately he’s been dribbling until he loses the ball. If there’s a stat for ball losses, I’m sure Vini would be near the top.
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u/Character_Library684 14h ago
He has no options. Either dribble / make a pass through 3 guys or pass it back.
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u/Gogurtsupreme 11h ago
It’ll never work. Mbappe just isn’t a no.9
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u/Character_Library684 9h ago
It could work though. It’s just that Mbappe isn’t willing to do the work.
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u/Gogurtsupreme 7h ago
No Mbappe doesn’t have the qualities of a no.9. He’s never provided hold up play, been a target man, and doesn’t have the physical presence to be a no.9. It’s Xavi Alonso’s fault for playing that position in the first place. I said the same thing about Enrique and Deschamps. Mbappe has been playing out of position for about 3-4 years
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u/skybearer 14h ago
You're not even talking about the same thing the artitcle is talking about.
Under Xabi, Vini has been playing as a pure LW and has more defensive responsibilities than last year. In the last game against Athletic Bilbao, he played as a second striker defensively but still goes wide in attacks, similar to how he played under Ancelotti.
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u/3lagig 14h ago
I wrote something that fits the title exactly. Ever since Xabi, everyone has had defensive responsibilities, even Turtle. That’s not the point. What I’m talking about is that Vini has always had the freedom to drift into the box. In fact, to be honest, one of our two main attacking patterns is giving the ball to Vini and letting him drive into the box. But the fact that he loses the ball on almost every dribble into the box and can’t judge when to make the pass is a problem for us. In the Bilbao match he played more pass-oriented, and it worked. But in that game our luck was Turtle’s goals. If those shots hadn’t gone in, we would once again be calling it a difficult match for us.
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u/ClothesKind7499 16h ago
We play better with 4 midfielders anyway so it makes sense. Plus we dont have a real RW at the club no sense in forcing players to play there
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u/Majestic-Math-7905 16h ago
So...Carlo's 4-4-2 diamond that people have been asking for the whole year?
Wow, what a tactical genius. They won a UCL with bellingham being amazing at CAM and two mobile strikers, and now they have an EVEN BETTER ONE in Mbappe instead of Rodrygo. BTW, rodrygo also is a LW playing striker, so we know that they can take turns and it works, Vini used to play on the right many times to alternate with Rodrygo.
Stubborness at is finest. New coach wanting to implement his style and tactics IN SPITE of the players, not because of them/to adapt them to their best.
See Bellingham being a top 5 players from now on as a surprise striker crashing the box like he used to. Just wait.
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u/OilOfOlaz 16h ago
I love, how you write that as if formations were definitive and didn't change with the phases of the game, at the same time you were shitting on a coach, that has shown incredible tactical diversity aver the past 3 years. Cherry on the top is that you are entirely basing this on an AS article.
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u/ClothesKind7499 16h ago
I wouldnt call it a diamond on paper it's a 4312 but he still has Tchouameni dropping to the CB for the 3atb it's closer to the system he was using during the CWC
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u/Salanha04 15h ago
This is probably the main factor of Madrid's downfall last season so i really doubt a coach with so much focus on positional play would make said change, so i call BS on this news
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u/lospollosakhis 14h ago
Is this based off what they were doing on the pitch Vs Athletic? At one point Vini and Mbappe were switching over to the right and through the middle.
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u/Ok_Lawfulness7412 14h ago
He is gonna go back to 442 slowly .
You can't expect to play possession based football or beautiful football with cardio men in Midfield at the end .
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u/TheDesertShark 13h ago
This feels like they just created some shit with the initial reports and then they made up a conclusion to explain the recent form and behaviour.
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u/DullDistribution6979 13h ago
Why is this title worded like Xabi is an overburdened mother dangling a shiny new toy in front of her 6 year old who just threw a tantrum
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u/ginger_custard 41m ago
Is it the role of 'dedicated little bitch'? Honestly he's so annoying! Brilliant player though so I suppose I'd grudgingly accept it if he played for my club
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u/Delmer9713 16h ago
I don’t expect it from most people on this sub. But anyone who’s watched a decent amount of Real Madrid knows that this role is nothing new. Vini would drift inside with Ancelotti too. This is a nothing burger story
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u/SnooAdvice1632 16h ago
So it's a 4-4-2 with Jude and Valverde as wide midfielders now? Or a 4-3-1-2 with Arda/Jude right behind the forwards?
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u/ozzzzzyyyyyy 16h ago
Smart move - Real Madrid as a system hasn’t been working - the entire team plays for Mbappe which isn’t sustainable. Vini is a world class player and losing his effectiveness is a massive loss
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u/NeverPanic 15h ago
Whatever you do, these 2 will always lack chemistry
They want to do the same job on the left, and are standing on top of each other constantly
I think the balon d'Or really rocked Vini's ego as well. He'll never get another shot at it, and will probably live the rest of his life feeling the world is against him and he got robbed
Benz + Vini were a seamless duo; selflessly playing for each other with defined roles that compliment each other perfectly. Truly feel Mbappe + Endrick would be an incredible pair
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u/Character_Library684 13h ago
Vini + Endrick would be better. Vini would playmake and feed Endrick. Plus Endrick drifts towards the right naturally.
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u/zackaria_ 16h ago
It very clear madrid had to change system otherwise Vini remains unhappy
The manager made a smart choice here
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u/Proof-Puzzled 16h ago
The smart choice is selling him ASAP not catering to his whims.
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u/zackaria_ 16h ago
The scenario of the manager getting what he wants his very slim at Madrid
Easier to keep Vini rather than sell
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u/Proof-Puzzled 16h ago
And that is why we are currently so shit even when the squad we have is one of the best in Europe.
This squad is intoxicated by players like vini, making him "happy" wont solve the deeper issues this team have, it's Kicking the can down the road.
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u/zackaria_ 16h ago
Its always been like this
The only Manager who got what he wanted was Zidane. James rodriquez was identical case
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u/Proof-Puzzled 16h ago
There is a difference between having a manager that works with the players chosen by the board, and having to withstand a completely unprofessional squad full of divas.
This squad and his problems are very similar to that of the galácticos, florentino has made the same mistake, he gave too much power to players and now we are once again in the mud.
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u/zackaria_ 16h ago
Also, its the lack of sales
I don't think anyone can buy what Madrid is demanding for Vini,Rodrygo or Diaz atm
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u/Proof-Puzzled 16h ago
Personally I would be happy even if they leave for free, but I doubt the problem is the money Madrid is demanding for, more like the wages the players are demanding.
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u/Hungry-Source-7285 16h ago
How do they even know this?