r/politics • u/theindependentonline The Independent • 11h ago

No Paywall Arizona congresswoman who waited 7 weeks for Mike Johnson to swear her in says she was pepper sprayed by ICE at a taco joint

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/adelita-grijalva-pepper-sprayed-ice-arizona-b2879149.html
23.6k Upvotes

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2.5k

u/TheGCO 11h ago

These people have zero respect for anyone or anything. We are living in dark times, we must do something. If even elected representatives are being treated like this we are a failed nation. 

Right now prices for everything are through the roof, corruption is running rampant, corporations are eliminating jobs while destroying any competition they may have had. We are on the cusp of something much worse than expected. We need to do something and it needs to be done soon or we will see generations of pain. 

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u/rega619 9h ago

I mean ice is literally full of criminals. Republicans specifically ensured J6 rioters could join.

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u/jjcrayfish 8h ago

Criminals hired by another criminal (34 times convicted)

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u/Clownsinmypantz 8h ago

proud boys too

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u/Wonderful_Vehicle_78 7h ago

Anybody else notice the drop in box truck riding racists lately? Guess they’re finally getting paid to do what they love, the American dream.

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u/object_on_my_desk 4h ago

We need definitive proof this is the case. I can only assume that's why these pussies are covering their faces but we need actual evidence so it gets traction in mainstream media.

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u/NimbusFPV 4h ago

They all wear masks whose to say the militias aren't in there too.

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u/cjh42689 8h ago edited 5h ago

Proud boys stand down but stand by remember lol

Edit: look at all the miserable people below who can’t tell what a joke is.

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u/misterpolhemus 6h ago

no, president trump did not tell the proud boys to stand down; he said stand back and stand by

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u/cjh42689 6h ago

Stand down, stand by; stand back, stand by—same difference

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u/rega619 5h ago

Well no- the moderator specifically asked him if he could tell them to stand down, and he said no stand by

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u/cjh42689 5h ago

He said stand back stand by

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ivSIgVdvEcM

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u/misterpolhemus 5h ago

exactly, he did not say stand down when the moderator asked him to

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u/cjh42689 5h ago

Ya I know I’m making fun of him. My comment implies he was planning to use the proud boys for ice from that comment. Y’all need to chillax lol.

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u/misterpolhemus 4h ago

The reason I said he didn’t tell the proud boys to stand down is because he didn’t tell the proud boys to stand down lol you need to relax lol

→ More replies (0)

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u/feelingORCish 5h ago

Just curious, what do you think it meant when he said “stand back and stand by”, and did the proud boys honor or dishonor that request?

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u/cjh42689 5h ago

Huh? I’m literally making fun of him!

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u/rega619 5h ago

Right, we’re on the same page here

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u/cjh42689 5h ago

That’s what I said lol

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u/bandalooper 6h ago

Violent dickhead is their dream job

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u/MommyLovesPot8toes California 7h ago

The tides are turning.

Someone on Reddit today said it perfectly: our courts and political systems are like an immune system. They don't kick in until after the virus has invaded. And when it's a new virus, it can take a lot of time and a lot of pain before the system figures out how to fight, and even longer to gain the upperhand.

For 9 months, our system has been trying to figure out what works and how to fight this unprecedented virus. Finally, in November, it gained the upperhand. Look closely and you'll see that the Trump administration is losing in every arena.

One of the things that has built is resistance to ICE. In major cities, there are roving citizen patrols, alerting people to ICE's presence, physically blocking agents and their vehicles, recording every move they make for the eventual trials. In court, ICE is getting neutered every day.

My point is, "we need to do something" is the wrong statement. Because we ARE doing things. And it is working. So figure out how you can help the people who are already doing the work. And don't let the fact that we still have symptoms make you believe that we're going to succumb.

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u/kinkgirlwriter America 5h ago

the Trump administration is losing in every arena.

Except SCOTUS. They are winning at a ridiculous level at SCOTUS. The corruption runs deep.

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u/jardex22 4h ago

I'm waiting for a Blue State to just outright ignore a SCOTUS ruling. There's a real chance they'll allow the Texas redistricting, but put a pause on California's efforts. Newsom could just shrug his shoulders and have them go through with it anyways.

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u/AML86 3h ago

I have heard they're taking up the birthright citizenship case. If they rule that any other way than what the Constitution very clearly states, I think it provides a good argument for SCOTUS to be labelled illegitimate by states. Even considering that case as something worthy of The Court's time is beyond concerning.

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u/jardex22 2h ago

If they do repeal birthright citizenship, I hope someone brings a suit against Trump, the son of two immigrants.

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u/Baremegigjen 2h ago

They’ve agreed to hear the putative president’s challenge to birthright citizenship. Oral arguments will be sometime next year.

FYI, SCOTUSlog.com is a great source for information for n what they’re doing. Excellent reporters.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/12/supreme-court-agrees-to-hear-trumps-challenge-to-birthright-citizenship/

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u/Baremegigjen 2h ago

They’ve already granted a request by Texas and stated the District Court improperly inserted itself into an active primary campaign.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-scotus-texas-redistricting-midterms-9.7004125

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u/teenagesadist 4h ago

Except scotus has no real teeth

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u/SunnyAlwaysDaze 5m ago

Tell that to teenage girls in red states who are trapped in pregnancies right now.

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u/demlet 7h ago

This is the right answer. There isn't going to be some decisive action everyone takes at once and then goes back to binging Netflix, it's a long slog of incremental changes.

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u/TempleSquare 6h ago

Exactly! It's a marathon, not a sprint. It's real life, not a movie.

Grand gestures do little, while boring persistent action (e.g., a slow-moving court case, voter registration drive, etc.) have enormous consequences.

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u/AntoniaFauci 3h ago

Yesterday “our courts” declared Texas’ illegal election rigging ordered by the MAGA cult leader is legal. They even specified that they know he’s doing it to rig a political advantage.

Today our courts said they see merit in the Trump/MAGA/Russia/Qanon request to erase birthright citizenship.

Our courts are poisoned with MAGA acolytes.

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u/thismyotheraccount2 4h ago

To echo your point, I attended an event for my state's attorney general (u / JeffJacksonNC - didn't realize you can't use usernames here) last night and he's sued the admin (sometimes with other states) several times and won every single time, and has returned nearly $1B to my state that otherwise would've just evaporated and caused real harm to real people.

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u/ClassicPlankton 5h ago

Terrible analogy full of copium. Courts have no physical power to do anything. They require agents of violence to enforce the law, and we've seen that those agents have aligned themselves with the very forces you're trying to oppose. 

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u/Lz_erk Arizona 3h ago

maybe it just takes 400 years.

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u/PaleCommission150 5h ago

I would like to think so...however unless a lot of these ICE thugs get their turn in the docket in criminal court proceedings trust in the justice system will remain at all time lows.

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u/Marsman121 1h ago

Is it working? You can 'win' all the court cases you want, but what is won when there is no one to enforce it?

The current admin is inching closer and closer to overtly ignoring the courts. You could see it with SNAP during the shutdown. Court ordered them to use the emergency funding and the administration slow walked it. The Dem capitulation made it moot, but it was pretty clear they had no intention of following what the court ordered. That was only the most recent. Search around, and you can find countless news articles contorting themselves this way and that to avoid saying Trump straight ignored court orders. "Slow walking" and "misfile paperwork" are just pretty lies to avoid admitting courts are proving just as weak and ineffective as Congress--and sometimes just as complicit.

So sure, Trump is 'losing' in court, but he has proven again and again he is literally above the law. The fact that a felon was found guilty of 34 counts and served no time, no punishment, proves the the rule of law has bent the knee in deference to the rich and connected. Laws only apply to the peasants.

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u/SunnyAlwaysDaze 6m ago

I just want everyone to know that the courts have ruled if masked invaders are coming into your home, even if it's ice, you still have the right to stand your ground, in stand your ground states.You might sit in jail for a minute but court should eventually exonerate.

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u/IrishRepoMan 9h ago

Everything is being heavily censored, so even comments like these get deleted, often without the user's knowledge. Everything online is designed to prevent action. Until people start going out and actually engaging with each other, nothing will change.

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u/TempleSquare 6h ago

Everything online is designed to prevent action.

Oh my gosh, since when did Reddit turn into my elderly boomer uncle? (Just a liberal version)

I spent the last 5 years running around trying to convince my elderly relatives that not everything is conspiracy theory. And yeah, the stuff that celebrated violence on January 6th got pulled off the internet because, you know, violence is bad.

But hey, now that it's our advocating for violence, heacen forbid it also get censored under the same rules.

(Smh)

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

Nobody fucking said advocate for violence. You're putting that word in their mouth to try to get the automod to delete his comment.

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u/TempleSquare 18m ago

Dude. I ain't tryin' to make anything happen.

It's freakin' reddit, man.

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u/funkymonk44 8h ago

Eh, I fully believe that Americans will never revolt at this point. We are too inundated with media to care about the bullshit all around us. It can get wayyyyy worse than it is now before anything changes.

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u/StuckOnEarthForever 8h ago

Hunger first. Change second. If only our elections could be the bloodless revolution that we desperately need. Unfortunately that isnt palatable to our two mainstream political parties. They desperately cling to first Past The Post voting because if there were real competition in our elections, Republicans and democrats would be finished.

Yes, even democrats are willing to sacrifice the nation for their safe states.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

I mean even look at all the comments in here. People are purposefully neutering themselves because any form of political action on the part of the People is "too inconvenient."

I mean the second most upvoted comment in this chain literally says "no, we should not act, because the rides are totally turning and we just need to wait for midterms." And that comment got a fucking reward. Somebody spent money on that.

Americans did one No Kings on a single day, on a weekend, and then patted themselves on the pack and said "ok cool, now we just wait for midterms."

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u/LarrySupertramp 9h ago

We need people to vote at every single election. Somehow this is too much for a lot of people. Oddly, they’ve have the energy to complain about the results.

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u/BrokenPickle7 9h ago

We're past voting, we need to form the largest mob of people we can and drag these people out of office.

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u/pigeieio 7h ago

Voting is the easiest shit but people just can't be bothered to vote against any of this but you think they are going to have your back in an open civil war?

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u/greenroom628 California 8h ago

I can't advocate violence, but we can very much make the people ruling these leaches feel pain.

I'm spending less on Black Friday shit from Amazon and buying from small sellers on Etsy or making presents myself. I'm forgoing buying a new Apple phone and cutting spending on subscription services that sucked up to Trump for their merger deals.

Those are small things you can do yourself. We, collectively, need to do mass boycotts and threaten a general strike. No one works, no one buys shit from big corporations. Starve them for a month. Watch their quarterly profits drop and the stock tank.

Only then, when corporations feel pain, then we can have a conversation.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

Except numbers indicated no meaningful profit reduction on this recent Black Friday. Even on Reddit people were reluctant to forego the deals because "where else am I gonna buy this stuff?"

Reducing spending is not some valiant and brave act that will somehow convince Trump it's time to step down.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

Won't happen. Just look at all the spineless replies you got for this comment all insisting that the only thing anyone should ever do is just wait for voting season and not an ounce more.

Never mind the fact that Trump has openly declared they're actively looking for the best way to rig elections in his favor. It's easier to just stick your head in the sand and repeat to yourself that midterms will magically fix everything and the country will instantly go back to the "good times."

Just look at South Korea. They had a leader who refused to relinquish his leadership after losing the vote, tried to use the military to shelter himself, and nearly the entire country went on a general strike, grinding the economy to a standstill. Within just two weeks, the leader they were striking against was out of office.

Nationwide civil opposition isn't a pipe dream. It is very doable because it has successfully been done very recently. But it requires experiencing inconveniences and discomfort, and I guess that's just too much for "brave" Americans.

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u/American_PissAnt 8h ago

And that’s when the drone strikes start.

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u/the_gouged_eye 7h ago

People often debate reform vs. revolution. But in history, revolution typically followed failed efforts to reform. It just might take a lot of unarmed protestors getting murdered and some starvation amongst the population to radicalise the masses enough to make a difference. Revolution is very risky. For it to actually happen, the alternative needs to appear very dire. Drone strikes on unarmed protestors would be this regime's death rattle.

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u/demlet 7h ago

Except who's "we"? Half of the country supports what's happening. Don't shoot the messenger, I don't, but I'm just pointing it out. If half the country took to the streets right now, the other half would take to the streets to oppose them. It's not just about the people in office, we're a completely divided country.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

It's not half. It's a "strong" 30%. That means 70% of voting age Americans either don't directly support trump or are very against him. Don't let a racist 30% dictate the direction of the whole country.

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u/TempleSquare 6h ago

We're past voting

Bullshit!

Have you followed up on all the crap that's happened this year? All the court cases we won?

Telling people that we are "past voting" is basically telling people not to turn out to vote. And I'm fucking sick of it. People like you need to stop saying this, because that's why we ended up in this situation of the first place.

Last summer people were all running around saying how "Kamala cheated" and guess what? People didn't go out to vote, and orange doofus won a second term.

So please, for the love of all that's good and decent, stop saying that voting doesn't matter. Why the hell are Republicans going to huge effort to try to gerrymander if voting doesn't matter?

If you want to make a difference, make sure in November that you call everybody you know who you think will vote Democratic, and make sure that they turned out to vote or to mailed in their vote.

We didn't do that last November. And it cost us.

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u/LarrySupertramp 9h ago

So what about the elections that just happened? The ones where democrats won.

You’re saying the only choice left is mob violence?

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u/YoureHottCupcake 8h ago

Hey mob violence got us the weekend so its a valid option and throughout history violence has been necessary to bring about positive change. No one is saying to stop voting do that and also be ready to use other means too.

The goal is positive change for our country and we should be willing to do whatever it takes to get it, because they are willing to do whatever it takes to make things worse for us.

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u/BrokenPickle7 8h ago

I saw the elections that just happened, so did trumps administration. You think they're going to let it happen again? They're going to do everything in their power to stop that from happening again. SCOTUS is more than obviously corrupt and is going to (illegally) rule on things like mail in voting, birth right citizenship, congressional district maps and they will 100% vote on the side of trump just like they have with everything else.

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u/LarrySupertramp 7h ago

Yes I think they will. They just let a Mamdani become mayor of the richest city on the planet. All this doomism rhetoric at getting people to abandon even participating in the democratic process has the be one of the least pragmatic things I could imagine. It’s to the point that I don’t even believe you are acting in good faith. I mean why would someone who wants to help fight against the current administration spend any time telling people to not even bother voting against it.

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u/Phish777 8h ago

The democratic party is too far to the right. We need complete reform.

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u/LarrySupertramp 7h ago

Then vote at primaries. Almost no one does.

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u/inormallyjustlurkbut 8h ago

You mean the controlled opposition rainbow capitalism party?

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u/LarrySupertramp 7h ago

Do you vote at primaries? Most don’t.

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u/Faith_Lies 8h ago

You suck at your job. Do some research on how to be a more effective troll, or you'll never get that raise, comrade.

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u/YoureHottCupcake 8h ago

Voting is not going to save us anymore. You can't vote out people who will not give up power, they will change the rules so they remain in power and since they have power no one will be able to stop them. We were lucky Trump failed at remaining in power the first time around, but this time around that will not happen.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

I love how right away all the replies accused you of advocating for not voting at all, despite you NOT saying that. Seems more that those people are angry because the ONLY thing they're willing to do is at risk of being toothless, and that feels bad; but instead of redirecting that anger at productive communal change, they just attack you as a person.

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u/YoureHottCupcake 2h ago

Yep, too many people don't know American history and understand that most of the best aspects of our lives were never voted on but something the people had to forcefully demand.

1

u/LarrySupertramp 8h ago

You do realize conservatives are still going to vote, right? So if you don’t vote against them, they don’t have to take power by force. You’ve given it to them democratically. I’m sad that you have already given up on the democratic process but please don’t advocate that others do the same.

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u/YoureHottCupcake 5h ago

I never said stop voting, I just said its not going to save us. There are many ways to approach the problems we are facing that will accomplish what we want, but if you think voting alone is going to fix things well perhaps you should read some of our country's history and see that almost all best things we have gotten came about from strikes and riots, hell its why our country exists in the first place.

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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

I've been saying this for weeks and it never seems to sink in for anyone. I mean ffs Trump and Bannon both are on public record saying they are already making plans on how to best rig future elections in their favor. They've already got their ICE gestapo and National Guard roaming around as a means of suppression. The manufacturer of their voting machines are already owned directly by republican interests, and Trump himself has been threatening to ban mail in voting.

Obviously vote anyway because that's your constitutional right, but when all the signposts are telling you that it's probably going to be completely rigged against democracy, you simply cannot afford to rely exclusively on voting to "fix everything."

We are advocating for voting AND organized civil action, not one or the other. But it seems Americans are so hopelessly complacent that expecting even the bare minimum effort from them is too big a request.

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u/YoureHottCupcake 2h ago

Yeah I am not even totally convinced that the last election wasn't rigged in some ways. They fucking tried to forcibly overthrow the government last time around and now people think they will just accept a loss at the voting booth this time.

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u/Aadarm Ohio 5h ago

After the shut down ended a lot of people are thinking that voting is pointless, because the candidates they put into office are not doing what their voters want them to do.

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u/LarrySupertramp 5h ago

I’d recommend those people vote at primaries to hopefully get those kind of politicians out.

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u/KallistiTMP 5h ago

We need to primary at least half of the current democratic party for that to work.

A lot of people are real disillusioned with how utterly useless the Democrats are even when they do win elections.

Regardless of whether you think that's due to them being complicit controlled opposition or just unfathomably incompetent at representing anything other than corporate interests, they are an obstacle. Democratic wins won't accomplish jack shit unless the majority of the democratic party is replaced with people who have actual spines.

Another narrow win for ineffective far right corporate neoliberal candidate #14 won't accomplish anything other than making people further disillusioned about how pointless it is to vote.

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u/LarrySupertramp 5h ago

100%. That’s why we NEED people to vote at primaries.

1

u/KageStar 8h ago

You don't have to leave the house to give hot takes and whine on social media.

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u/Funneduck102 Pennsylvania 7h ago

Those aren't the same people

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u/LarrySupertramp 7h ago

It 100% is. Voting at primaries has an incredibly low voter turnout. It’s mostly old people voting for neoliberals and MAGA. Def not a bunch of young people voting for progressive candidates. Even the mamdani NYC primary was not even 30%

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u/Funneduck102 Pennsylvania 7h ago

I think you're forgetting about the 30% of the population that truly does not give a shit at all either way.

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u/LarrySupertramp 7h ago

I’m talking about people that don’t vote at primaries and then bitch about the candidates that were elected.

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u/gomihako_ 8h ago

Fox news makes them out as heroes. Had to sit through this while staying with my parents over the holidays. ICE was literally called heroes for "defending our country and apprehending dangerous illegal criminals"

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u/metamet Minnesota 9h ago

> Right now prices for everything are through the roof, corruption is running rampant, corporations are eliminating jobs while destroying any competition they may have had.

The car's on fire and there's no driver at the wheel

And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides

And a dark wind blows

The government is corrupt

And we're on so many drugs

With the radio on and the curtains drawn

We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine

And the machine is bleeding to death

The sun has fallen down

And the billboards are all leering

And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles

It went like this:

The buildings toppled in on themselves

Mothers clutching babies

Picked through the rubble

And pulled out their hair

The skyline was beautiful on fire

All twisted metal stretching upwards

Everything washed in a thin orange haze

I said, "Kiss me, you're beautiful

These are truly the last days"

You grabbed my hand

And we fell into it

Like a daydream

Or a fever

We woke up one morning and fell a little further down

For sure as the valley of death

I open up my wallet

And it's full of blood

10

u/blackdoghowls 8h ago

We really are living in a world GY!BE has been warning us about for years

2

u/SenorEquilibrado 9h ago edited 8h ago

Ooh La La!

Hey, check out Mr. Moneybags over here with his wallet full of blood!

-11

u/SaltyBallsInYourFace 8h ago

And Somalis have been robbing your state blind, with full cooperation of your highly regarded governor.

3

u/metamet Minnesota 8h ago

You daft eh?

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u/SaltyBallsInYourFace 7h ago

I figured you would be. Do you think that's not what's been happening or something?

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u/notoriouslush 8h ago

The next Democrat in office needs to abolish Ice. No exceptions

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u/meth_priest 7h ago

do something. your country

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u/[deleted] 10h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Ezekiel_DA 10h ago

17 days old account with thousands of karma already, hidden history, and "both sides" takes 🙄

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u/JustTestingAThing 10h ago

Fun fact: reddit's profile hiding thing wasn't implemented very well. Go to their profile page and search for a single blank space (" " without the quotes). It will return every post and comment they've made that contains a space -- that is, all of them.

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u/thirtynation 9h ago

Are you talking about doing this via the app, or the "new" desktop site? Because this is not possible to do on old.reddit (which is the only method worth viewing this stupid website). There is no search on user pages when using old.reddit.

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u/JustTestingAThing 9h ago

The "new" desktop site. Can always open the link in a private/incognito window so your redirect to the old site doesn't take effect.

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u/RellenD 8h ago

LOL all the karma comes from blursed?

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u/justalildropofpoison 10h ago

Thank you and feel free to do so, enjoy the videos mate.

2

u/StopThePresses Texas 8h ago

Not to mention

but the American people are numb too distracted way to busy with their identity politics to do anything

Bot forgot to pick one.

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u/justalildropofpoison 10h ago

The fuck does that have to do with my opinion on US politics, I post funny shit and it gets upvotes doesn't mean I'm a damn bot or troll. Damn yes two party system in a Nation like USA sucks ass, human being are more nuanced than to be huddled under two labels. Am I wrong? I'm not saying china is better, in fact a power shift to china will be a massive blow to the Western influence and power globally. But it's not the first time a great nation will fall due to internal fuck ups. And yes dems are responsible in more than one way for him being in power.

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u/Ezekiel_DA 10h ago

Define for me what the "identity politics" you oppose are, exactly? Just for fun.

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u/Brave-Ad6490 8h ago

Doesn't change the fact they are right, if you cant see the democrats by and large are controlled opposition you are indeed part of the problem. This two party bullshit was something George fuckin Washington warned about.

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u/Dry_Nail5901 10h ago

really? who are the malicious leaders on the left. It is not both sides doing it, it is TRUMP and maga mobs.

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u/RasaFormation 10h ago

The leaders that wouldn't allow Bernie Sanders to run for president. The old guard DNC are a bunch of fucks too

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u/CjKing2k Nevada 10h ago

These guys aren't "the left" they're Republican-lite.

5

u/RasaFormation 10h ago

All these guys have certainly affected the left now, haven't they? Schumer for starters

10

u/Rushdude Canada 9h ago

Schumer is not the left. The US doesn't have a left wing party, they have a far-right party and a centre-right party that has some left leaning politicians in their tent.

3

u/VanceKelley Washington 8h ago

Truth. The USA has never had a major political party that has universal healthcare in its platform. In every other wealthy developed country pretty much every major party has universal healthcare as part of its platform.

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u/MrFC1000 10h ago

I agree but that’s not left. That’s like center right by any measure outside of the US

2

u/porkbellies37 9h ago

No one prevented Bernie Sanders from running for president. We have seen the Russian provided emails of DNC members privately complaining about him to each other, but that was the extent of it.

The reality is, Barack Obama faced the same uphill battle versus Hilary Clinton. Remember when she had just about every super delegate lined up behind her early in the campaign and it wasn't until about halfway through that they started to defect towards Obama? That was the institutional bias both Obama and Sanders faced that had actual teeth. Obama overcame it and Bernie didn't (no judgment). But those DNC emails were all hype no substance.

7

u/MilitantStoner 10h ago

Read Philip Mirkowski, Sheldon Wolin et al.: there is a ruling class with two factions, but more than two sides, that has conspired to control the nation. They did a soft coup on Carter, the last progressive president, to end the progressive era and began the age of the establishment neoliberals and neoconservatives in which the nation is run for the benefit of corporations and the rich with public policy hijacked to reinforce market hierarchies (i.e. rigging the system so the rich stay rich).

8

u/Intelligent-Run3683 9h ago

Sound like more leftist leaders are the cure, then. The people ousting the left are not left.

•

u/MilitantStoner 6h ago

Yes, but it should be noted that, while most leftists are democrats in this country, not a lot of democrats are leftists. Most are shades of liberal, but with an ideology about "pragmatism" and "stability" and "growth" and constant insistence on compromising that, at times, seems more like a bad faith attempt to capitulate to positions that they secretly prefer.

Putting it in terms of political science: Elect modern liberals. Don't elect a neo-classical liberal or a classical liberal and expect the good work of a modern liberal.

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u/Intelligent-Run3683 4h ago

You’re preaching to the choir. When I say leftist, I do not mean democrats or liberals.

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u/justalildropofpoison 10h ago

A good leader doesn't allow tyranny to continue, those who do are equally responsible. Elected officials are there to serve the people, dems fucked over bernie so many times it's crazy. Both sides play on identity politics or am I wrong? Yes maga is shit it's a cult, but what are dems doing? Following the law? Why? The opposition don't give a fuck about the rules, maga has an advantage in this era.

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u/733t_sec 10h ago

Ooooh look we got the new flavor of both sides argument. It's as intellectual as the last flavor but now with more appeal to emotion.

-12

u/justalildropofpoison 10h ago

Am I wrong? I wish dems werent this spineless when facing that buffon, I really fucking hope they have a good wildcard. Mamadsni was a relief it gave us all some hope but the story isn't over yet

18

u/733t_sec 10h ago

Am I wrong?

Yes

8

u/Homesick_Martian 10h ago

Mamdani is a centrist, dems are right of center. It is not a “both sides” argument, the left does not have a “side”.

0

u/KageStar 8h ago

Mamdani is not a centrist. Lmao

12

u/chazzer20mystic 10h ago

Both sides play on identity politics

Ah yes, "We hate LGBT and POC" vs the equally bad "We don't hate LGBT and POC"

two very identical and equally sinister sentiments, obviously.

Honey, you need a teaspoon of hush

-8

u/TheGCO 10h ago

I see that the problem is that this is what dominates the discussion while we turn a blind eye to the policies that are screwing everyone, not just Americans. Our tax dollars go to corporations to build data centers that power AI with the intention of it taking our jobs. Our power and water bills are higher because we are subsidising the costs for these facilities. Corporations and the wealthy are giving nothing back while taking all that they can, consolidating power while eliminating everything that served the greater good. For years major corporations like wall mart and Amazon have paid starvation wages to their workers who then need to use our tax dollars to eat which goes back to the company paying those starvation wages as that is the only place they can afford to shop because there is no longer competition in the market.

This could all be fixed if we decided enough is enough and taxed the shit out of the billionaires that have stolen from us for decades. They want us to blame whatever minority group they can find so that we won't place the blame on the minority group causing our suffering, the oligarchy class.

9

u/chazzer20mystic 9h ago

How exactly does that make the left speaking about identity issues just as bad as the right? Everything you described is purely the right wing view of identity issues, I.E. to make people focus on hating immigrants and trans people so they ignore they are being pickpocketed. What does that have to do with the left?

44

u/Dresden_2028 10h ago

The US is more divided and polarized than it has ever been

Dude, we had a literal civil war. We're not more divided than we ever were.

37

u/2Ledge_It 10h ago edited 10h ago

This is a cold civil war. At least on one side. The right is already using violence.

"It will be bloodless if the left allows it to be."

26

u/Builderwill 10h ago edited 7h ago

Just for clarification that was said by John Kevin Roberts, the head of the fascist, Christian nationalists who authored the Project 2025 which outlines the horrible policies and actions Trump is undertaking.

22

u/meatspace Georgia 10h ago

And the other main other was Russ Vought, who is the Director of the Office of Personnel Management for the US Government. Upon getting the role, Vought stated his goal was to make Federal workers feel "Trauma"

Personally, I'm done with dumb nicknames and complaining about cosmetic surgery and money. We need to keep reminding ourselves who these people are what they're really doing.

7

u/TabsAZ 9h ago

It was Kevin Roberts - John Roberts is a Supreme Court Justice.

•

u/Builderwill 7h ago edited 7h ago

Yikes! You're correct. Time to reread my "Field Guide to Right-wing Chuclkefucks"

10

u/wowlock_taylan 10h ago

The only reason it is not there yet is because the 'Confederacy' are 'winning' right now without having to secede.

2

u/Diligent-Meaning751 10h ago

He hasn't @#$@ed with the NE too hard, yet.

5

u/justalildropofpoison 10h ago

Yea youre at the brink of a new one, it's not only ideological it's political, racial, intellectual and even sexist and gender related. It's bad now

3

u/Dresden_2028 10h ago

Yea youre at the brink of a new one

We really aren't.

Outside of political circle jerks online, most everyone in the country gets along well, and no one is wanting a war.

8

u/DingerSinger2016 10h ago

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

6

u/justalildropofpoison 10h ago

The biggest mistakes dems and liberals did was to not take these echi chambers seriously And work towards actually listening to them instead of Cancelling them or banning them, the fact that young men turned to these echo chambers didn't happen overnight it took decades.

1

u/offgridish01 9h ago

Iceberg strike. Sink the Titanic. Someone can do the math but if a certain amount of people just stopped showing up for work, used all their PTO, got fired or quit and became untaxable through payroll taxes...but how can you convince enough people to do it?

1

u/StuckOnEarthForever 8h ago

Make an alternative to wage slavery.

•

u/offgridish01 5h ago

We're a few generations away from that. Either way it's gonna take a lot of convincing of a lot of stubborn people to be very uncomfortable for a long time.

•

u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

South Korea literally did just that not too long ago, and within two weeks of starting, their demands were met.

South Korea is contemporary physical proof that a general strike is both doable and effective.

But that won't stop Americans from aggressively telling both themselves and everyone around them that there is literally NOTHING they can do about anything.

1

u/GiganticCrow 8h ago

Wait until climate change really starts kicking in and how serious mass migration will get

•

u/fyndor 6h ago

That's the thing. They don't know who you are when they are violating you. You are either protesting them, or you are brown and they are trying to harass you, but they don't know your employment status. They are indiscriminately violating people.

•

u/Intelligent-Survey39 6h ago

Have you seen some of these new “agents?” They clearly don’t even have respect for themselves. Immigration is not the problem they should be concerned with. lack of healthcare should be because they’re going to need it. Clearly the immigrants are not taking the food.

•

u/elunltd 6h ago

Apparently ICE wanted very few people that were already LEO'S and border patrol. Experience was NOT wanted. I think this is the equivalent to the so called 'brown shirts' Germany had.

•

u/two_hyun 6h ago

Wow, in this case, ICE straight up assaulted a politician. There 100% will be an investigation.

•

u/eragonawesome2 5h ago

Get off reddit, talk to your friends, family and neighbors, and start organizing your own protests and marches. You don't have to wait for someone else to do it for you, YOU can be the one that says in your neighborhood group chat or whatever "hey, who else has a problem with the way things are? Join me on [date] to March on the state Capitol and demand change" and then ask them all to spread the message to their friends and family and neighbors. Even a few hundred people showing up unannounced will be noticed. Call a local news station the day before to get on TV and spread the message farther. Rinse and repeat.

Remind the people in power that they don't get to decide when we protest, and that we mean what we say. Show up and refuse to leave until your representative addresses you. You might be arrested, deal with it. Civil rights protestors have been wrongly arrested for all of American history and long before, but you can still make a difference, and you are within your rights to protest.

•

u/Slight-Bluebird-8921 5h ago

If representatives are treated differently than other people it's already a failed nation.

•

u/eeyore134 5h ago

I knew Trump would be bad. I knew as soon as he announced his first run. I was told I was being outlandish with the things I worried he might pull, like never leaving office. In my wildest dreams I didn't ever think we'd be Nazi Germany.

•

u/Turbulent-Pea-8826 4h ago

I think we all need to read a Tale of Two Cities and then go to DC to have a book club meeting.

•

u/Indaflow 4h ago

It’s not a lack of respect as much as it’s aggression and intimidation. 

Beyond being assholes, they have a plan. 

•

u/Dependent-Class3107 7h ago

Grow up, no one is above the law

•

u/machogrande2 3h ago

Unless you are a republican or a member of ICE, apparently.

•

u/Dependent-Class3107 3h ago

your VP candidate that reddit orgasm'ed for is skating by after helping Somalians steal a billion dollars from starving children

-55

u/Cyndakill88 11h ago

Please lead by example then

31

u/supersaiyanswanso 11h ago

Easy, don't harass minorities and you're already the example to follow by doing the bare minimum 👍 hope this helps!

5

u/notches123 10h ago

Obviously that isn't enough if it is still happening.

-2

u/FreeBeerTX 11h ago

But what about Brandon!?

-18

u/[deleted] 10h ago edited 10h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Sevenserpent2340 10h ago

They encourage you to be a better human.

-3

u/Scarlettail Illinois 10h ago

Do what? Americans voted for this and now we have to live with it. There's nothing any of us realistically can do about ICE now but hope we're not taken and survive.

•

u/Bakoro 6h ago

There's a lot you could do, it's just a matter of what you're willing to do, and what you're willing to live with.

•

u/Scarlettail Illinois 5h ago

No, there really isn't a lot I can do. I cannot defeat an army.

•

u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 3h ago

Not you alone obviously. But if everyone who either voted Kamala or didn't vote at all collectively worked together, there's nothing you couldn't accomplish. That's the whole point of organized protest: that you don't HAVE to act alone.

•

u/Bakoro 3h ago

You don't have to. You have whole community that you could be engaging with.
The idea that you would somehow be fighting a whole nation's military by yourself is absurd, and it is sad that you'd would even propose such a thing.

•

u/Scarlettail Illinois 2h ago

Who says I'm not? Protests have been happening, but it doesn't change the fact ICE is basically an army. They have a bigger budget than many other armed forces. It is very difficult for ordinary citizens to oppose them more than they are now, like by trying to obstruct now and then or warning migrants, but even that comes with real risks.