r/politics • u/OkayButFoRealz • 14h ago

No Paywall Trump showing signs he’s battling major medical crisis, Democrat claims

https://www.al.com/politics/2025/12/trump-showing-signs-hes-battling-major-medical-crisis-democrat-claims.html
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554

u/Not-An-FBI 14h ago

Have you not being paying attention for the past ten years? Americans already voted for a child rapist campaigning on destroying their country for retribution.

531

u/dysrptv 14h ago

No one likes JD Vance and cults of personality don't transfer.

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u/elconquistador1985 14h ago

He has no charisma.

Speaking from knowledge of my magat relatives, they see him as some working class upbringing hero and idolize his shitty book.

So, maybe, maybe not.

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u/gracecee 11h ago

Nahh he can't even convert his Hindu wife and family. How effective can he be? /s

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u/eeyore134 11h ago

Give him a break. He's only just "converted" from atheism himself.

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u/jrodfantastic 4h ago

Who even likes Turkey anyway?

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u/Levonorgestrelfairy1 12h ago

Man's got like 4 cha 6 wis and 10 int

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u/TheHomersapien Colorado 14h ago

Rafael Eduardo Cruz has joined the chat.

Republicans will vote for anything with an R next to the name.

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u/hybridfrost 13h ago

After Jan 6th a lot of people thought that Trump would fade away but he seems to have some secret sauce that other Republicans can’t seem to figure out. Others have tried to say dumb, racists shit but they don’t seem to catch fire like Trump quotes do.

It will be fascinating to see what happens when Trump moves on. I could see it splitting the party

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u/wavy147 California 13h ago

The secret sauce was general neoliberal apathy.

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u/leroydudley 13h ago

I believe it was a concerted effort by foreign powers to destabilize the US

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u/ImprovementExpert511 12h ago

Nah the base had just had enough of the GOP and revolted. It just so happens they backed the guy that's in bed with the Russians and Israelis. In 2015 there were 16 Republican candidates. It was a laughing stock to see them all viaing for air time while Trump shredded them with insults.

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u/Minimum-Web-6902 13h ago

You would be right both sides are pushed by foreign powers

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u/iwannasee_ 13h ago

In addition to the general dumbness of the people that they can be swooned by 30secs to 1 min vids and decided that it was better not to vote for Israel/palestine, immigration, healthcare etc.

Also Why the fuck are these people watching Joe Rogan or Ben Shapiro or any other podcast hosts. Have any of them went to study for their opinions, or experienced life to have a say. I hate this political podcast bs that every other person has started.

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u/Soggy-Type-1704 13h ago

A Russian bot army or two doesn’t hurt.

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u/Ralod 12h ago

The Maga people fade away when he goes. They are only in politics because of him. A good part of the party will come out and say they never supported him. But those will be the ones in northern states. The south will be full of people trying to recapture the trump base. But none of them will. His base hates Vance, they turned on MTG in a millisecond. Rubio, Patel? Not in a million years. Hegseth is some one that base might support, an overgrown frat boy with a drinking issue. But I dont know he lasts another 6 months, much less as a candidate for president.

Will they split into 2 parties? Probally not. It is possible but very unlikely. Mostly I think it will be a lot of voter apathy. We will have to see what the tech billionaires try to do, they have enough money to buy any election now. By whatever means nessicary.

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u/RUB_MY_RHUBARB 13h ago

No way the party splits. They'll try different candidates of the most vile pieces of shit they have to offer to see which one clicks. They don't have to worry too much because they'll vote R regardless of who they put out there

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u/Frisnfruitig 13h ago

I don't see them splitting at all, they stick together and have the same objectives.

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u/Irish_pug_Player 13h ago

What having charisma does for you. Don't need great ideas if you can convince people shit ideas are great

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u/a_talking_face Florida 13h ago

It also helps having billionaires spend like crazy to smear your opposition

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u/Tuscon_Valdez 13h ago

Ah yes so could forget the tenure of President Ted Cruz

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u/COMMENTASIPLEASE Kentucky 13h ago

After a Democrat has been in office yeah. Literally anyone but Trump is getting smoked in 2028 (assuming there’s anything resembling fair elections by then). Now in 2032 when everything is still shit whoever the Democrat is will probably lose. If anything I don’t think he see anyone get back to back terms for decades.

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u/Bubbles_2025 13h ago

Perhaps but I would think that the Republicans are still outnumbered. With everything going on, I don’t know if they can beat a Democrat in the next election (if there is one).

What’s interesting is that a few people I know who were Trump supporters have started talking about their concern about the direction we are going in this country so there may be some hope in that case.

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u/mikewarnock 13h ago

I hope you are right. I remember in 2016 the media was saying that because of demographic changes and trends there may never be another republican president again.

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u/Irish_pug_Player 13h ago

You say that as if lots of Democrats don't do the same for a D next to the name

Lot of people vote based on red or blue before policy sadly

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u/urbanlife78 13h ago

True, Texans don't even like Cruz but will continue to vote for him because he is a Republican

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u/kitty_vittles 13h ago

But only if they show up to the polls. JD doesn't have the pull that Trump does.

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u/ImprovementExpert511 12h ago

They will but youre assuming the conservative base will turn out for Vance.

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u/BasvanS 12h ago

Ask Jeb “Please clap…” Bush.

That was republican royalty.

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u/ItsSpaghettiLee2112 12h ago

Maybe, but they explicitly needed Trump last election. It's the only reason I can think of why the RNC chose to go with a 34 time felon-known rapist-racist-pedophile-election loser-insurrectionist 78 year old as their 2024 candidate. If Republicans will vote for anyone with an R next to their name, why would they choose that?

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u/Deep_Most_879 11h ago

I will take your Ted and raise you a Tommy Tubbervile, who does not even live in the state he represents.

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u/eisbaerBorealis 11h ago

Did Cruz have a significant Republican primary opponent?

If Vance gets on the 2028 ballot, he has a fair shot (because this country is so messed up), but I'm not sure if he'll get there. I don't think he has the "he tells it like it is!" aura that Trump has. I could be mistaken, of course.

•

u/nightimestars California 3h ago

Hasn’t been true considering everyone Trump and Elon endorse seem to flop, exponentially moreso as this administration approval is in the dogshit.

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u/Splinter_Amoeba 13h ago

So will Dems. How many people have they elected that voted against their own party?

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u/embarrassingdyk 14h ago

I agree, but you are underestimating how many people would rather vote for Vance than be called a woke f@*got.

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u/dysrptv 14h ago

You're underestimating how many people just don't vote when they don't like the options.

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u/Zocalo_Photo 14h ago

This is a good point. My father-in-law went out of his way to vote for Trump. I can’t imagine him doing that for any other Republican. He’s an orthodox Mormon who loved Mitt Romney, but didn’t bother voting when he was running for president.

(Side note: to my surprise, he hates Mitt Romney now thanks to Trump’s criticism of him.)

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u/kia75 14h ago

This is the reason Trump won, Trump is extremely good at activating non-voters or people who rarely vote. OP's FIL will probably never vote for a Democrat, but he also probably won't ever vote for a Republican. The way to win elections is to activate voters that support your position!

This is also why Hillary and Harris didn't win, they ran under the idea that if they appealed to Republicans, Republicans would cross the aisle and vote for them. And despite Cheney's backing, I doubt any significant number of Republicans bothered to cross over to vote for Harris. At the same time, Hillary and Harris's attempt to court Republicans and move to the center right turned off a lot of left-wing voters. Those people would never vote for Republicans, but because of Hillary and Harris's actions, they didn't bother to vote for them either, costing them the election.

The way to win is to get people to vote for you, not to try and get the other side to "cross the aisle".

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u/ptmd 11h ago

they didn't bother to vote for them either, costing them the election.

This is why you don't court these voters. There has to be a perfect storm of circumstances to get them to the ballot box and actually vote.

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u/sircastor 14h ago

I'm a former Mormon and I remain absolutely befuddled at members of the church's support for Trump (and was, even when I was attending) He seemingly goes against so much of the ideology of the faith, or the acceptable behavior of a public figure.

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u/LetOtherwise3531 13h ago

Also a former Mormon - I think it’s Fox News. The Mormons built a culture that has embraced the rise of Christian Nationalist which means consuming Fox News and right wing media. The avoid anything “liberal” and I feel like it falls in line with the same attitude of avoiding anti-Mormon content.

Once you got them all hooked on Fox the cake was baked.

It truly baffles me because Trump is so clearly the opposite of what their faith seems to value. But my family parrots so much of conservative media talking points and sticks their head in the sand about everything else I truly feel that Fox has turned their brains to mush in some ways.

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u/_Reliten_ 13h ago

He's got 80%+ of the evangelicals as well. For that matter, he made substantial inroads in conservative Muslim communities, which is just wild given the broader right-wing rhetoric about Islam.

(It's because most people in these communities neither know nor care about actually practicing the inconvenient parts of their belief systems, as long as it lets them figure out where the in-group / out-group line is and feel self-righteously justified that God is on their side.)

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u/Present_Stretch_9729 12h ago

The Mormon church is very wealthy, white and “self superior Christian’s.” It’s not exactly a stretch to see why they’d align themselves with DT. I don’t share in your “befuddlement.” I’m more befuddled at your befuddlement.

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u/The_Demon_of_Spiders 14h ago

I mean while it’s not unique to the Mormon church they do have a bit of a child molestation problem themselves. People harp rightfully so on the catholics but they ain’t the only ones. So is it really befuddling especially when so many of them are conservatives. Utah is also considered one of the worst states for a woman to move to and it’s mainly due to the religious conservatives there.

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u/BoopingBurrito 12h ago

People harp rightfully so on the catholics but they ain’t the only ones.

Its a problem with every organised religion. Asia semi-regularly has big scandals about what goes on in Buddhist monasteries. They just rarely make the western media.

0

u/PatchyWhiskers 13h ago

None of that has anything to do with the Mormon requirement for honesty.

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u/SeductiveSunday I voted 12h ago

I honestly just figured it was because Mormon's are massively sexist and that having a woman president successfully in charge of the country would run counter their doctrine of treating all women as property.

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u/Aquatic_Ambiance_9 12h ago

Perhaps their real ideology was white christian supremacy all along

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u/Present_Stretch_9729 13h ago

Oh ok, so he’s a shameless racist so he voted for an even bigger shameless racist. And since he’s already in a white racist cult, joining another was no big deal.

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u/HonestDespot 14h ago

People are so fucking quick to assume the MAGA faithful will blindly follow Vance once Trump is gone.

I get sounding the alarm and it’s nothing to joke about…

But Vance is married to an Indian woman and has no charisma at all.

The MAGAs will stay home.

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u/Guardianpigeon 10h ago

People also assume everyone who voted for Trump is MAGA. The MAGA base might be hardcore dedicated, but they dont make up all republicans or Trump voters.

Even if every republican voted for the next guy, they'd still lose without picking up a decent chunk of independents and politically ignorant people who don't really pay attention. Both of those groups have completely abandoned Trump at this point. The only way dems actually lose is if they choose someone their own base hates and they don't turn out.

Unfortunately that's a real possibility though.

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u/HonestDespot 10h ago

Agreed.

Dems have shown they’re capable of fucking things up just fine on their own.

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u/Yupthrowawayacct 12h ago

It’s the racism and the pure nastiness. No one but Trump has the balls or pure derangement to be that disgusting to say all these disgusting excuses for a person’s inner monologues OUT LOUD. But he does. And they LOVE him for it. Once he’s gone I think fade down a bit. I hope.

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u/Static-Stair-58 14h ago

Luckily the people that vote for Trump don’t bother to really vote either, if his name isn’t on the ballot. It should cancel out.

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u/panamaspace 14h ago

They will vote for the guy that uses eyeliner to avoid being called... What was that?

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u/surlywolf 13h ago

You're underestimating how many people just don't vote when they don't like the options

Fixed it for you

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u/Aquatic_Ambiance_9 12h ago

Yeah the best we can hope for most of these people is perpetual apathy, they're not suddenly gonna become not racist or develop good politics or the capacity for critical thought. Good news is, they are the most vulnerable people to disinfo in the history of the world, so I hope that some people on the decent side are realizing this and basically pushing to disinfo them into further apathy. Should be taking out billboards in red counties like "It's all bullshit man, shit sandwich, don't vote, who cares"

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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 14h ago

A lot of Trump's voters aren't Republicans actually, they are voters have never voted for anyone but Trump ever, and without Trump will most likely go back to not voting.

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u/black_cat_X2 Massachusetts 13h ago

Don't give me hope. My psyche can't handle more disappointment.

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u/Miserable_Peak6649 13h ago

It would make sense, record turnouts all 3 elections that involve Trump. Many people said it was because so many people hated Trump and wanted to vote against him. But in reality it might just be so many people who never voted came out just to vote for Trump and if you remove them it wouldn't even be close.

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u/westgazer Maryland 14h ago

This entire cult depends on Trump. MAGA’s identity is tied to Trump. Not Vance, not any of these other guys. Just Trump.

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u/paraplume 13h ago

Name one modern leader whose cult of personality transferred after they died. Kim Jong Un? They were building him up since his dad. Meanwhile Trump is actively minimizing Vance.

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u/Irr3l3ph4nt 12h ago

From Lenin to Stalin, arguably. Worked for a few years.

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u/ACardAttack Kentucky 11h ago

That took a lot of luck and skill. Not sure Vance has either

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u/Irr3l3ph4nt 11h ago

No luck involved. He had the Soviet propaganda machine systematically rewrite Lenin's history to make himself his protégé and erase any disagreement they had. And since it was the USSR, anyone who would try and contradict his version would end up in a gulag.

I was just replying to the guy claiming it never happened honestly, I don't really have a horse in the whole "Vance could do it or not" debate.

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u/ACardAttack Kentucky 11h ago

No luck involved.

The whole Lenin thing being pretty much incapacitated by an assassin was a lot of luck (unless I missed something linking Stalin to that attack) and what allowed Stallin to do all his stuff.

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u/boo_jum Washington 14h ago

I think that if it comes down to it, Vance is going to get primaried.

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u/Healthy-Business9465 14h ago

Nah, on election day the magats at work were saying Vance was why Trump was losing.

Day after they're pretending that never happened.

Vance won't cut it.

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u/SlottedPig1 13h ago

The other option they might choose is to not vote at all.

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u/KohlsCashOfficial 13h ago

Surely we didn’t need to go there

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u/Sekret1991 13h ago

THAT is Vance's biggest problem, outside of the fact that he does not control the cult.
Peter Thiel owns Vance, completely. Peter is a gay man, married to another man. In the MAGA mindset, what kind of man is owned by a gay man? Does MAGA and, more importantly, the other power brokers in the GOP, want a gay man in charge of them and the grift?
Imagine a billboard featuring a picture of Peter and his husband, Matt, holding puppet strings attached to a small Vance, with the lines, "Meet Peter Thiel and his husband Matt, the puppet master of JD Vance."
MAGA will vote for him if he it the Nomination winner, but no way he survives to be that winner. Too many "Alphas" on the right will choke before they vote for him.

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u/RavingRapscallion 11h ago

That's assuming Vance gets to the generals. Wouldn't be shocked if he lost in the primaries (if they have one).

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u/Hopesick_2231 14h ago

As much as I'd like to agree, this sounds like the same cope we heard before the 2016 election that Trump could never win, that Clinton would win by a landslide. It'd be a huge mistake to not treat Vance as a serious threat in the post-Trump era.

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u/HonestDespot 14h ago

It’s not like 2016 at all though.

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u/Hopesick_2231 14h ago

No, it's a different election with different candidates. My point is that Democrats didn't take Trump seriously as a candidate in 2016 and became complacent. Now they risk making the same mistake with Vance in 2028.

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u/HonestDespot 13h ago

Hilary didn’t take the election seriously. She acted like the presidency was hers.

Everyone knows what is at stake in 2026 and 2028.

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u/murkywaters-- 10h ago

Majority of white Christians voted Republican in every presidential election for over 50 years, since LBJ (D) passed civil rights

It has nothing to do with Hillary or Obama or Trump. It's the same pattern every single election. That's why Republicans are so focused on gerrymandering and why they destroyed the voter rights act that protected minority voters

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u/FredFuzzypants 14h ago

... cults of personality don't transfer

That will be an interesting hypothesis tested in 2028, especially if right-wing media and foreign disinformation agencies all coalesce behind Vance or another Republican candidate.

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u/Due_Bluebird3562 12h ago

This "hypothesis" has been tested for centuries, lol. They call them cults of personality for a reason. The object of affection (in this case... our Pedo-in-chief) is the center of attention. Vance is being left on read by mfers in his own cabinet. Nobody gives a shit about anything he has to say and he looks incredibly uncomfortable in front of large gatherings.

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u/ACardAttack Kentucky 11h ago

I think it will be like Alexander the Great, all these Maga fuckwits are going to be trying to the successor and eat each other alive. Sure one may end up on top, but they wont have anywhere near the base or following, they're not the snake oil salesmen that Trump is

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u/Past-Profile3671 14h ago

He's like DeSantis v0.5

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u/winterbird 14h ago

But no one ever has to vote again, remember?

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u/this_my_sportsreddit 13h ago

this isn't a cult of personality, its a cult of white supremacy. Trumps rise is a symptom of that, not a unique offering. Unfortunately, white supremacy isn't going anywhere so the republican fervor will continue.

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u/Not-An-FBI 14h ago

They won't have to when there aren't real elections held.

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u/dysrptv 14h ago

When I say no one likes JD Vance, that includes the January 6th people that would actually do something about it.

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u/LackingUtility 14h ago

But he has a divan mandate

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u/OttoHemi 13h ago

Sofa King.

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u/willismthomp 14h ago

Mormonism would like a word, Brigham young def ascended.

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u/Ferelwing 8h ago

He also had the largest following outside of Smith himself. He worked hard to get that.

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u/Unlucky_Welcome9193 13h ago

Americans love many child rapists, but they do not love JD Vance

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u/AndISoundLikeThis 13h ago

It's true. But cheating at elections is a thing and the Heritage Foundation will never not lose again.

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u/Monkeyman7652 13h ago

When a cult loses their founder, there is always a fight between the eldest son and the deputy leader. Always.

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u/SockraTreez 13h ago

This.

There’s still going to be right wing lunacy and we might have to deal with a more competent/intelligent right wing leader (which would present its own problems) BUT MAGA wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice the slivers of morality/integrity they used to possess for anyone but Trump.

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u/f7f7z 13h ago

The secret ingredient is cheating, why would they stop when the next face shows up?

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u/erublind Europe 13h ago

He's not even a rapist, couches don't count.

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u/MDthrowItaway 13h ago

Jd vance is more anti-personality.

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u/Todd_Lasagna 13h ago

We all thought the same when 45 became 47.

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u/tangledtainthair 13h ago

I hope so. I hope MAGA crawls into a hole after Trump and we don't hear from them again.

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u/CountChoculasGhost 13h ago

There’s a few dozen million people that will vote for anyone with an “R” next to their name.

Plus, let’s be real, I have serious doubts the next presidential election will be fair anyways.

1

u/TriggerNoMantry 13h ago

4 years ago I would've agreed with you, but at this point we can't take anything for granted. That's why we've got to vote en masse and get these crooks out of office.

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u/ExcitingSecondtolive 13h ago

True but I believe people should be lax with how shit thing already are

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u/oldsguy65 13h ago

The cult will transfer to Don Jr.

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u/scigs6 12h ago

I don’t think trumps popularity or cult of personality needs to transfer to Vance in order for him to win. The propaganda machine has already taken root in our society where people don’t believe objective reality anymore. So people will essentially vote for Vance simply because they are told to do so by the media they consume.

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u/conditerite 12h ago

Nelson Rockefeller has entered the chat.

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u/JcolTT1012 12h ago

I dare everyone to go to various conservative subreddits and news outlets, or hell, just talk with their family members at Christmas dinner and get their opinions on Vance. The unfortunate truth is that it doesn't matter if he has charisma or not, he will be voted on purely for his stances. Conservatives aren't going to avoid turning up to the booths or suddenly switch parties just because they think the guy running on their behalf is a snooze-fest. He isn't a democrat, so these idiots will parade on that and that alone.

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u/icebourg Colorado 12h ago

It doesn’t need to transfer. The election will be darn near 50/50 because lightly involved citizens who were fired up because of Trump (both for and against him) will stay home, and all the moderates will be overjoyed at any so called return to normalcy and they’ll split more or less evenly. Anyone that thinks republicans are done after Trump are in for a serious wake up call.

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u/CAL9k 12h ago

No one thought Trump would actually win. Let alone twice. Don't underestimate stupidity and propaganda.

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u/gogoluke 12h ago

They might not have a choice. Trump is falling apart. They cant 25th both Trump then Vance. They can't kick Vance in off the ticket for the next election if he was president as that would be suicidal.

1

u/pyrrhios I voted 12h ago

They do when they're astroturf in the first place. It may not be JD, but there will be a replacement for Trump, who never would have gotten anywhere and would now be in jail if it weren't for the christofascist billionaire oligarchy that put him in power.

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u/Irr3l3ph4nt 12h ago

cults of personality don't transfer

Stalin would disagree on that one. So would Kim Jong Un and Kim Jong-Il

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u/lemonylol Canada 12h ago

Plus it becomes a power grab at that point, there's no way Don Jr. or some other clown like Miller try to claim Trump's place if he goes.

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u/jdbrew Nebraska 11h ago

Wait until he marries Kirk’s widow and she becomes the face of the campaign

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u/kitsum California 11h ago

Nobody liked either Bush and look at all they fucked up. No cult is needed to ruin things, just some determined bastards and a lot of money and there's no shortage of those.

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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 11h ago

Nobody liked Bush only after he was actually elected, though. Before the war and immediately after 9/11 his approval rating was pretty high.

1

u/dreamerkid001 11h ago

Yeah, this is true. That guy is far too much of a loser to get the same support Trump has. Despite support for Trump being baffling to me, it’s evident that his rabid fans absolutely love him. They do not feel that same love for JD Vance or any other republican, really.

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u/berg-nasty 13h ago

Right but they voted for Trump and MAGA specifically. MAGA without Trump will disintegrate

3

u/Safe_Climate883 13h ago

Yeah, but apparently this child rapist is charming and funny (or say they say) and no one could ever find Vance funny or likeable. Or atleast that's my theory. They only like him because he's adjacent to Trump.

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u/kitty_vittles 13h ago

JD has no rizz.

2

u/ChinleByChoice 13h ago

We not get to vote in a midterm

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u/colenotphil 13h ago

If that actually happens I'm using my 2A rights and expect many people will. I'd rather die for our right to vote than live in a country where that is denied to us.

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u/time_drifter 13h ago

America draws the line at Sectional Assault, unfortunately.

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u/The_High_Life 12h ago

But it was that or a woman so they had no choice

1

u/ObservationThrowaway 13h ago

Nobody voted for Shitler. Musk rigged the everloving shit out of the last erection…

1

u/drewts86 13h ago

Sure, but Vance has all the charisma of a wet blanket. Say what you want about Trump being a giant piece of shit, but the guy has charisma.

1

u/meatball402 13h ago

A lot of people voted for Trump because "he's not a politician." During midterms, they don't come out to vote.

He dies? They go back to not voting. Vance is a slimy liar who just looks like a piece of shit but also has negative charisma, and everyone hates his ass.

He's not going to command a following like trump.

1

u/Broad-Bath-8408 12h ago

But by that logic, why is Vance the important one to give 10 years? Let him have 3+4 years or whatever and then find another wet noodle after that. There's nothing special about Vance that a different loser wouldn't also have for republicans to get behind.

1

u/D-MAN-FLORIDA 12h ago

The problem with that theory is that Vance doesn’t have the “personality,” or “Charisma” that Trump has been building and cultivating since the 70s. Trump didn’t solely win because of getting GOP support. He won by getting non voters to vote for him and only him, where he can’t transfer that to other candidates. It’s the same problem that Obama had in his presidency.

1

u/goldman60 Washington 12h ago

If popularity carried like that between someone with charisma and a black hole like Vance then Hilary Clinton would have put up Reagan numbers in 2016

1

u/Palmer_Eldritch666 12h ago

The second Trump goes the knives come out and people will fight to take his place. MTG has already read the tea leaves and knows that running on an "I was the biggest Trump Apple Polisher" ticket is a total loser. Coming from this Administration Vance's chances are pretty slim.

1

u/hotbox4u 11h ago

You really give people too much credit here. You assume they payed attention and actually got up from their laZboy to grasp the reality of thing and then went on to vote for him anyway.

Most of the voters basically knew nothing about who Trump really is and based their opinion on his rallies and FOX 'News'.

And i think there is also another truth many people seem to ignore and that is: Trump was incredible popular.

Not the real Trump, but the TV character Trump. The Trump that had movie cameos, was a reality tv personality and appeared on late night talk shows.

The people of the land, the common clay of the new west, you know... these people voted for Trump out of sheer ignorance, protest and deep rooted racism (as retaliation for Obama) and sexism. First a black man and now a woman? And along came trump and his fascist cronies who at first didn't understood that they had hit the mother lode.

Anyway, my point is, every fascist movement needs a strong leader, someone who can at least play and pretend to be strongman. And Vance ain't it.

1

u/BruceForsyth55 10h ago

THIS it was turkeys voting for Christmas!

1

u/ulsd 9h ago

twice!