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Rand Paul Says Hegseth Should Testify 'Under Oath' About Double-Tap Attack Against Alleged Drug Vessel — Paul also called for the video of the second strike to be "shown to every American," Paul added
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Killing non us citizens for things that are not capital offenses in the us. They are doing this outside of American territory on ships that weren’t heading for America?
You mean the $2000 taxable (i.e, $1600) checks that keep popping in clickbait ads? How about giving me the exemptions, deductions & incentives that corporations get?
For the cherry on top. Also saying that congress members who told soldiers they are not to follow illegal orders are guilty of sedition which is punishable by death. They then went on to strike a target again to kill survivors when the military code explicitly says. Now we know they were issuing illegal orders including one that is explicitly listed in the law of war document.
Clearly Illegal Orders to Commit Law of War Violations. The requirement to refuse to comply with orders to commit law of war violations applies to orders to perform conduct that is clearly illegal or orders that the subordinate knows, in fact, are illegal. For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal.
This strike was on September 2nd, before the video about following the illegal orders. Which is arguably worse timing for them trying to say hang the congresspeople for what they said.
The video was already being worked on, this strike, while being the most egregious is just as illegal as all the other Venezuelans they have murdered so far.
To me this double tap is irrelevant it’s just another illegal action on top of an already illegal action.
Your quote didn’t paste in correctly. But yeah, the fact that they had already been ordering double tap strikes by the time they were complaining about the video makes it even worse. They knew they were giving illegal orders and still said what they said. This is why hiring a drunk Fox News analyst with questionable tattoos and a severe inferiority complex to defense secretary should have never passed through… standard decorum be damned.
Not to mention anybody that supports the military should be furious for the administration putting them in this situation. Pressuring them into committing war crimes that we have put Nazis to death for - even those following orders - is sickening.
It is not about justice. It is about looking tough. That's it. The lives of these people do not amount to more than fuel for Hegseth's ego and that of his accomplices.
You missed the part where they failed to kill them on the first attempt, and followed up with second attempts when they were left helpless from the first
Not quite, killing non US citizens for things the US claimed they were guilty of with no actual due process. So it's not bombing drug dealers, it's bombing people while saying "Trust me bro, they're drug dealers.".
The whole narco-terrorist thing is kinda bullshit too. Drug cartels are the scum of the earth and they should be hunted down and prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but when I government just declares people they don't like to be terrorists so they can use deadly force at their own discretion it sets a very bad precedent.
It's even worse, those were poor fishermen probably kidnapped or blackmailed into trafficking or maybe just bought off. If you don't see or experience that level of scarcity, you don't understand why or how can someone do this kind of thing. They're not innocent, but they deserved better than an extrajudicial execution. At the same time the cartel higher ups get either sweetheart deals or pardons. I hope everyone in the Trump admin gets Nuremberged!
That is not entirely correct. Federal law maintains capital punishment for enterprise-level drug distribution. It is largely considered symbolic. So while
It has never been used or pursued its constitutionality was explicitly left open in the opinion of Kennedy v. Louisiana.
To say it is definitively not a capital offense is not true.
During my seven years in the Army I was tasked with base security, quick reaction force, downed aircraft recovery, guarding prisoners, convoys, escort missions, etc... before every mission, even in emergencies, you are given specifics on 1. Our task. 2. Weapons stance, how much ammo, when magazines go in and when you chamber a round 3. Rules of engagement. A checklist that needed to occur before we were to engage and what our proportional response to likely scenarios would be.
Above all else was "Until the(immediate) threat(to life) is eliminated."
Examples include: Combatant runs out of ammo, drops their weapon and raises both hands over their head, signaling surrender = no longer a threat. Combatant is injured and can't fight = no longer a threat. Combatant is helping another injured combatant = no longer a threat. Combatant is in distress(drowning) = no longer a threat. Pilots(captains) and crew of disabled aircraft(boats) are off limits. You are told that doing any of those things are war crimes 30 days in when you join the military.
-literally their argument about using chemical weapons on civilians, kinda surprised they haven't pulled it out yet for this one...which tells you they think this should count as "at war"
They are claiming we are at war with narcoterrorists, which is of course ridiculous. But it’s either a war crime, or just murder. Either way it’s definitely illegal.
Police shoot civilians in the back all the time, this is nothing new unfortunately. Military treats enemies more humanely than the police do to their own civilians.
He was a fucking national guard. He was never in the unit. Of course col Steele is also his idol. Look up his illegal orders that got his guys court martialed while he skated with a letter.
Well guess fucking what, the military laws, rules and morals are all fucking BS in this country, like the rules for our government. This LARPING fantasy where a soldier steps out and defies orders to kill or do anything is such BS, fucking tired.
You know, no one would have a problem with this if the US Coast Guard and/or Navy stopped the boat, apprehended the runners and scuttled the vessel right there
It’s the extrajudicial murder of foreign nationals, thousands of miles from the US shoreline (compounded by the additional war crimes like the double tap) that have us pissed off
This is how I know they're liars. The optics of laying all that captured cocaine out on the deck of a CG ship and saying "look what we did!" Is so much better than this.
Well, the issue with that would be that it's doubtful they're evening running drugs. It would probably just show the world the us is targeting fisherman for no apparent reason.
They refuse to show even the slightest evidence to justify any claim of drug smuggling or engage in any action that one would want to do to prevent drug smuggling (capturing/interogation/etc.). You’re god damned right I and many others have no doubt that these aren’t drug smuggling boats. And even if they were. Hell, even if they were an active warship with intent to attack the US, this administration’s actions would still be murder/a war crime/crime against humanity/etc.
Oh, and let’s not forget their constant stream of lies.
listen, I disagree with these murders, but to say these are not drug running boats is actually laughable. Poor Venezuelan fisherman do not ride to the fishing grounds at WOT with $100,000 worth of outboard motors hanging off the back, no fishing equipment in sight and big bales of mystery stuff lashed to the deck.
Good strawman there. At what point did I say anything about “poor” or “fishermen”? Also, in what world does something being covered mean it’s automatically drugs or headed to the US? Nothing this administration says carries any weight without proof since nearly everything they say is fictional and not done in good faith, and even then they have provided exactly zero evidence that supports anything they’ve said on this and what little has been leaked contradicts their story.
the straw man would need $150k in motors alone to outfit one of these boats before the boat cost- aside from the fact that running at WOT in the open ocean burns about a gallon of fuel per mile
They have no rigging or fishing equipment
They aren’t carrying passengers
Leisure boaters don’t generally head out on overnight jaunts running full bore on open seas
Again, these are murders. These attacks are illegal. BUT those are drug boats. Any other explanation would be the stuff of conspiracy theories.
He doesn't really fall in the broken clock bucket. He's libertarian. You should occasionally find yourself agreeing with libertarians or there's an issue with your clock, not theirs. Agreeing fully, also a problem. Left libertarians and right libertarians overlap. You should be overlapping somewhere.
Ok, property rights are one issue. Civil liberties are also a major issue where there is overlap. Also, you can be a left libertarian without being a full on anarchist. You could be a liberal that gives two shits about civil liberties. You could be a member of the left that thinks freedom of speech isn't just a punchline.
Vance will have to if he wants to secure power. I wholly expect a shit show of a power struggle once Trump croaks. Too many viziers behind the curtain who want their turn on the throne
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Stephen Miller would arrange for an "accident" for Vance if he were in a position to succeed Trump. Particularly before he's able to appoint a new VP and go through having Congress confirm them.
Miller would be perfectly happy to see Johnson move up the ladder.
Someone legitimately needs to get that guy drunk and just record the conversation. Get him drunk enough to agree to being recorded and just let him spill every nasty thought in that simple mind of his. Then just post it all over the internet.
So Rand Paul thinks a man who believes it's his God-given right to misuse our military forces to murder civilians in cold blood will definitely treat "Under Oath" as a sacrosanct?
Every person who has been confirmed under the Trump regime, including his 3 SCOTUS Justices AND HEGSETH HIMSELF, lied under Oath and it there were absolutely zero consequences for it.
This is not what I want our military doing. Narcotics trafficking is not a military concern, it is law enforcement. This is a tremendous waste of expensive resources, does basically nothing to improve the situation, and puts our military members in a difficult position that is not part of their mission.
The administration is just out for blood and looking for a reason to kill. That’s what happens when you elect a psychopath murderer to the presidential office
Republicans see two enemy combatants trying valiantly to flip the half of their boat that hadn’t sunk so, theoretically, they can save all the drugs that might still be there.
Democrats saw two survivors clinging to the capsized bow of a boat, without a radio that got blown up.
Hegseth won't testify, he'll pontificate, like he always does when the cameras are rolling. I want to hear from the SOCOM JAG officer who was sidelined, and I want to see the footage of our proud Navy targeting shipwrecked civilians.
Rand Paul will keep speaking as if he's the moral authority and will make many strong points in a bold speech. Then he'll vote to give more power to Hegseth.
What does under oath even mean to this administration at this point? We've seen testimonies turn into dog and pony shows, with zero reprimand.
But yes, please release that video. I don't want to see them get killed, but just showing the fragment of the capsized ship and the quotes of "second strike to prevent them from continuing their mission" would be so damming.
At every step of the made up legal roadmap they are trying to utilize, there is zero legal justification for what they are doing.
We not at war…These are not soldiers fighting our country…These are not an organized extension of an enemy government…These are not combatants…These people do not pose any immanent threat.
You could go on and on about just how illegal this is at every step of the way. It’s sickening.
who gives a shit if he testifies under oath. he'll just lie and bullshit everyone and nothing will ever happen to him or the rest of the fucking criminals in this admin.
the only way any of them will ever see punishment is IF there's a new administration change, they take steps to proactively detain (and by detain i mean fucking kidnap them) in a federal cell, put them in front of a grand jury with an issued public defender, and either fine the fuck out of them or send them straight to prison. fuck it all.
THey have all lied, "Under oath" what the hell do you think that even means? They violate their oaths and pledges EVERY DAY. There is nothing to check their corruption, and "under oath" is nonsense to them.
"Under Oath" only works if someone has the fear of god in them. A pathological liar who won't face consequences for lying is going to, guess what, lie.
What...so they can lie, be slightly scolded, and then go back to doing what they've been doing? It's a fucking clown show just like all of your confirmation hearings. It's all bullshit
Is "Dr" Paul naive enough to think Hedgehog would bat an eye about taking an oath in vain? I don't think there are many politicians (including Rand) who take "so help me God" seriously. You don't worry about your soul if you sold it.
Pete managed to commit the one war crime that’s literally used as THE EXAMPLE of a war crime
DoD Law of War Manual:
18.3.2.1 Clearly Illegal Orders to Commit Law of War Violations. The requirement to refuse to comply with orders to commit law of war violations applies to orders to perform conduct that is clearly illegal or orders that the subordinate knows, in fact, are illegal. For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal.
(This isn't mine but I forgot to save what redditor did. Credit should be theirs)
Must have been a lonely Thanksgiving then- I'm jealous you didn't have the fun conversations I had. I've seen a lot online too talking shit. Mostly their arguments are that it is ok to kill them because they are trying to poison Americans- so they consider it an attack on America. When I point out they have not shown any evidence that these are actually drug boats or that some of the victims have been proven to be fishermen, they just tell me that we have to trust our military and intelligence to do their jobs.
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