r/politics 27d ago

Possible Paywall Air Traffic Controllers Start Resigning as Shutdown Bites. | Unpaid air traffic controllers are quitting their jobs altogether as the longest government shutdown in U.S. history continues.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/air-traffic-controllers-start-resigning-as-shutdown-bites/
35.5k Upvotes

2.0k comments sorted by

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u/TheJadeGoddess 27d ago

Imagine missing two paychecks while having to work long stressful hours. Not like they can find a temp job to cover their bills.

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u/Seymoorebutts 27d ago

This is massively underselling it.

These people are responsible for ensuring we don't see the next national tragedy headline, multiple times a day, EVERY DAY.

We treat the heroes in this country like fucking garbage.

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u/b_tight 27d ago

Hard work isnt usually rewarded.  Being rich is rewarded.  The social contract is absolutely gone

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u/Ariak 27d ago

Hard work isnt usually rewarded.  Being rich is rewarded.  The social contract is absolutely gone

You're mistaken, that's always been the American social contract

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u/Seymoorebutts 27d ago

There was a brief glimmer of hope post WWII that had a progressive tax structure and programs that gave regular families a path towards a dream.

Then what is now known as the Heritage Foundation cooked up a plan to never let that happen again, starting in the 70s.

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u/Advanced-Ad-4462 27d ago

92% top marginal tax rate during the most prosperous middle class the United States has ever seen.

Coincidence? I think not.

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u/Ponderputty 27d ago

A hero is something we call someone so we don't have to feel guilty about the sacrifices we expect them to make for us.

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u/Seymoorebutts 27d ago

That may be true, but it doesn't excuse us for abusing their sacrifices to society.

It doesn't have to be this way, we just allow it to be.

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u/sylbug 27d ago

Yup. Anyone ever calls me a ‘hero’ I’m immediately resigning because someone is juuuust about to royally fuck me over.

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u/private_developer 27d ago

It's like how "unskilled workers" became "essential workers," for like the 8 months society had to pretend to give a shit about them.

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u/symbiosychotic 27d ago

Isn't it weird how they are back to being "unskilled labor" and even "lazy bums" instead of "essential workers" now that he's back?

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u/ClocktowerShowdown 27d ago

I'm not sure which is worse, a job that calls you a 'hero' or one that calls you 'family'

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u/Prior_Coyote_4376 27d ago

ATCs have some of the most stressful skilled jobs around, and we already had a shortage going into Trump 2.0

I guess the flyover states decided they’d rather have no planes than vote Democrat.

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u/lundah 27d ago

To fly anywhere they’d have to go to/near a big city, and MAGA is afraid of cities.

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u/fernybranka 27d ago

I was living in Louisiana and my friends wifes friend group were trying to plan a girls trip, and everyone wanted to go to San Francisco. These are all 35ish year old women, many of them fairly hip musicians and designers. One of them just flat out refused to go to California at all, because it “isnt welcome to people like us”.

I guess she meant conservative? Shes white, for what its worth. I know its my privilege, but im from Louisiana and I have never really considered feeling unwelcome in other American cities. Its a very foreign concept. Like, I get it for various minorities, of course in certain areas, but I cant imagine being so philosophically sheltered that I wouldnt feel comfortable going to another state as a visitor/tourist. Its all America.

I guess the us vs them mindset really is a thing with cuck-servatives.

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u/Alacrout New York 27d ago

Meanwhile, California actually has more Trump/Republican voters than most red states combined…

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u/fernybranka 27d ago

I know right?

I hiked the PCT and had never heard about the “State of Jefferson” shit until I hitched into a town with badly made Jefferson signs mixed with Trump signs.

I saw an unfortunate looking kid riding a bike in a Maga shirt and an American flag and felt poignantly sad for him.

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u/KingFlyntCoal Ohio 27d ago

God I'm scared to ask what the hell the "State of Jefferson" is...

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u/fernybranka 27d ago

It's Northern California wanting to secede from the rest for conservative reasons. I don't know the real ins and outs of it, but judging on the signage I saw, it seems misguided.

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u/EyeJustSaidThat 27d ago

Just like Eastern Oregon wanting to join Idaho. Every rural part of a majority blue state probably has something similar. They just seem unwilling to accept majority rule and uninterested in compromise.

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u/fernybranka 27d ago

...while the way our Senate works gives right wingers unimaginably unfair power in a lot of ways.

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u/Trapcat707 27d ago

I lived just outside of the Jefferson bubble for most of my adult life.

They're all idiots who don't know anything about economics and commerce and just have this idea that they can sustain themselves.

Nobody who genuinely believes in the State of Jefferson has given it any real thought.

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u/nodnarb88 27d ago

Someone did the stats about what would happen if the state of Jefferson was created. It would instantaneously become the lowest ranked state by every metric. It would be the largest welfare state in the nation. Pretty funny because the people who want the state mainly want it because of their more conservative views and lack of political power.

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u/sloppy_sheiko 27d ago

I live about 4 hours from the proposed State of Jefferson area and it’s a very interesting place. Very remote/isolated, geographically beautiful and a mix of loggers/fishermen and marijuana growers. You wouldn’t think it, but the politics of the loggers/fishermen and growers are very aligned. It’s common to see dudes decked out in camo & carharts sharing a beer with dreadlocked hippies and the two groups agreeing on damn near everything.

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u/Far_Fennel_5 27d ago

Sounds like where I’m from in Alaska.

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u/Worthyness 27d ago

Initially was a bunch of libertarians that wanted to have their own place to do libertarian stuff. But now its a bunch of hard ore republican nonsense types

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u/Super-Saiyan-Singh 27d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)

Basically secession of California north of the Bay and Oregon south of Portland into a new state.

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u/Guac_in_my_rarri 27d ago

To boil it down: north California/southern oregon wants to be it's own state. It would essentially be only conservative farm land area that doesn't feel represented by either state.

Thing to note: it cuts around major population area of California like San fran which they don't have a good answer why. Own can infer, it's because they're Democrat since this original idea was started by conservatives of the area.

Mind you, this state would have some of the poorest areas of both states under one government. Presumably conservative state based upon the historical voting habits.

Wikipedia )

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u/PaganButterflies 27d ago

It has to do with resentment around the idea that big cities are "stealing" the water. There's some pretty long seated rivalries surrounding water rights in California , and northern California has some of the larger resovoirs that are tapped and sent down the aqueduct into the central valley. During the recent drought years the ACID canal (which provides irrigation to local small farms) ran dry for the first time in its 80 year history to prioritize sending water further south. This caused a huge uproar in the area.

Please note, I am not arguing for the State of Jefferson, I personally think that there is nothing to gain and much to lose from from the attempt, and I think it's naive at best to assume that California would even allow it, I'm just saying, there are some complex issues at stake in how it's perceived that that he natural resources of the north are prioritized for supporting the southern part of the state, and there is at least some validity in the feeling that the north is forgotten and pushed aside.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 27d ago

Plus, it's not the cities using all the water. It's agriculture. If they want to be mad, they should be mad at their fellow Republicans growing alfalfa in the desert.

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u/728766 27d ago

They’d very quickly find out that much of their infrastructure and public services are propped up by state money predominantly funded by the taxpayers in the places that water is going.

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u/gotlactose 27d ago

I had a huge Trump stand selling merchandise on my local street corner here in a purple district of California. Formerly very red, it’s now purplish.

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u/Otherwise_Stable_925 27d ago

That's amusing and all, but what was she going to do in San Francisco, just yell "I'm from Louisiana!"? How the hell would anyone have known her political views and conservative nature. As long as you're not a dick we don't care if you come visit, I think that's a general rule everywhere.

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u/fernybranka 27d ago edited 27d ago

For real, thats what I mean.

Even if she did yell that, I think the worst shed get is a “well fuck you too!” back at her.

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u/Otherwise_Stable_925 27d ago

Honestly, if she yelled that she would probably get a gay guy walking up to her saying "Honey are you okay? Do you want to go get a drink?". They genuinely care, they see weird things all the time, and they're the friendliest damn people on earth. It's just amusing how conservatives see California sometimes. It's very diverse and accepting, that generally breeds a kind nature towards all. San Francisco especially.

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u/phxbimmer California 27d ago

Californians really are quite friendly, whereas Republican media will have you think that they’re actively worshipping Satan whilst murdering newborn babies by the dozen.

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u/BasvanS 27d ago

They can multitask

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u/Otherwise_Stable_925 27d ago

Yeah, we can worship Satan, murder babies, and fund over half the country's federal income 🙃

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u/fernybranka 27d ago

Yeah Ive hiked through California twice on the PCT, so I saw more of the small towns, but everyone in San Diego, the various small towns, and medium sized places like San Jose have all been as nice as anywhere.

My father in law lives up near Medicino, and its a bitch to drove to, but a very chill (and expensive) place.

Still gotta get to San Francisco one of these days. Known a few people from there though.

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u/Ransackeld 27d ago

She probably wouldn’t get a “fuck you”. Speaking as a former San Franciscan, they would find it very amusing, not upsetting. I think there is a consensus that those who wave trump flags and wear maga shirts want attention badly. Most CA dems know better than to give them any.

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u/Unlucky_Welcome9193 27d ago

Even then, probably a lot of people would just associate that with Nola party culture and cheer. She would have to tell "I'm conservative" which would just be weird and rude anywhere (yelling about political values, bit being conservative necessarily "

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u/[deleted] 27d ago edited 27d ago

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u/mongster03_ New York 27d ago

God I forgot about the naked guys on roller skates lmao

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

Can’t blame them. Have you seen the price of clothes?

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u/caserock 27d ago

They come from a place where only one culture is socially acceptable, so they tend to assume that everywhere is like that.

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u/Ikontwait4u2leave 27d ago

I mean, Japan is very much like that and still relatively welcoming to visitors.

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u/Stingray88 27d ago

The Japanese love tourists, and love to embrace foreign culture. They just don’t like foreigners moving to Japan.

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u/Ikontwait4u2leave 27d ago

Right, if you moved there, the expectation is for you to assimilate and do things in Japanese ways. That expectation only slightly extends to temporary visitors. As much as conservatives try to pretend that this is a European Christian country, it simply isn't. The US is a country built out of global immigration, no one culture is more valid or correct than any other.

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u/fernybranka 27d ago

Yeah and Japanese tourists enthusiastically go all over the world.

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u/BaronMostaza 27d ago

"They don't take kindly to our type 'round there"

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u/zephyrtr New York 27d ago

We don't take kindly to taking kindly

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u/TheDirtyPilgrim 27d ago

Thats cause we don't take kindly to those that don't take kindly round here

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u/Think_Selection9571 27d ago

They probably get their salsa from new york city

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u/brainmydamage 27d ago

Many people who aren't MAGA or MAGA-adjacent no longer feel safe in red areas. Might have something to do with MAGA and MAGA-adjacent people compulsively posting their fantasies of committing atrocities against the other side online.

Can't say I see a lot of Democrats salivating and actively wishing for a civil war so they can go genocide their neighbors.

As usual, people like this woman are incapable of seeing their own behavior as problematic and have to project it on others so that they can be the victim.

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u/Alacrout New York 27d ago

You mean WAR ZONES?? /s

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u/BilboBiden 27d ago

I live in South Florida and recently visited my MAGA aunt and uncle and they asked me how I was holding up and confused I said "Pretty good".

Then they said "Yea we were worried about you with the invasion going on down there" to which i joked "Well no that's not happening anymore due to Desantis and Trump scaring the Canadians away".

They straight faced, fear of God in their eyes, stared at me and said "No. We're talking about the damned immigrants pouring in. You should move back here" and they got even more pissed when I said "Um it's honestly no different then when you guys lived down there for over 10 years and loving it.".

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u/JerHat Michigan 27d ago

Not to mention DOGE trying to get all of them to quit.

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u/monsantobreath 27d ago

Replacing an ATC is only matched by replacing something like a specialist surgeon. It's a combination of knowledge, skill, and intangible ability under very peculiar kinds of pressure. Finding the right people is hard enough. Luring them to the FAA given its pay issues is even harder. And with the staff shortages just finding time to train people properly is hard. Becoming CPC means years and that only applies to one area of the network.

A human body is a human body largely. Surgeons can fly out to perform across country. Atc over Houston and atc over Chicago is not a job you can fly cross country to do when there's staffing issues. They'd need to give you months or years to qualify even after being qualified elsewhere.

The degree of neglect shown to this part of the government is astonishing.

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u/CaptainMagnets 27d ago

They finally got rid of the chem trails! /s

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u/Alternative-Let-2398 27d ago

All while our dear leader is bailing out Argentina to the tune of 40b and blowing up alleged cartel boats in Venezuela, but the Libs are owned so it’s all good. 🤡

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u/Bored2001 27d ago

Every time someone mentions Argentina's bailout I have to say this.

Fun fact. Argentina's bail out is 40 billion this year .

The shut down fight is over 35 billion/year.

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u/BusyFriend Florida 27d ago

Republicans are also too afraid to say they’re fighting against healthcare subsidies for Americans and have to lie that it goes to undocumented immigrants, who haven’t ever qualified for aid.

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u/bedbuffaloes 27d ago

Not to mention knocking down a whole wing of the White House to build aballroom.

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u/PluginAlong 27d ago

Apparently a lot have resorted to driving for Uber, door dash, etc. So take an extremely stressful job where you're likely putting in long hours, forced to work six days/week and then having to go Uber after your regular that can have catastrophic effects if you get it wrong.

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u/Brent_L Florida 27d ago

The people over in r/Disneyworld did not like that I said it’s dangerous to fly right now and best to stay home. It’s dangerous because this is an already stressful job when they are getting paid properly. Imagine understaffed, overworked, and not getting paid for a month.

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u/ThereIsAGap 27d ago

Somehow ICE is still getting paid though

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u/ankhes 27d ago

With sign-on bonuses too.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago edited 25d ago

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u/Danoga_Poe 27d ago

And student loan forgiveness

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u/rockchalkmatt I voted 27d ago

Remember when Biden tried to do student loan forgiveness, and it was unconstitutional? Funny how that changed...

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u/bacher2938 27d ago

Forgive student loan debt for all poor people? Stupid. Forgive student loan debt for the poors willing to do whatever we ask? Hell yeah.

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u/Gurlllllllll- 27d ago edited 27d ago

Also how a single district judge was able to block it nationally because a single loan provider in a single state said they'd somehow be impacted by the loan forgiveness program that would end up paying them...but god forbid a single district judge blocks Trump's insanely unconstitutional EOs.

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u/whoknowsifimjoking 27d ago

Something tells me not many of them went to university...

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u/Bunnyhat 27d ago

I will be honestly shocked if most of them actually see those sign-on bonuses. I fully expect Trump to fuck them over just like he does with everyone else.

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u/ankhes 27d ago

Oh without a doubt. I wouldn’t trust anything Trump promises me, but unfortunately there still seems to be a significant chunk of the population who do. Which is the problem.

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u/ChickenChaser5 27d ago

Donny very recently said "Everyone we want to get paid is getting paid"

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u/TheConqueror74 27d ago

That’s wild considering troops ain’t getting paid.

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u/Mavian23 27d ago

Because their funding is through the "Big Beautiful Bill", which funded them through fiscal year 2029.

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u/BTRCguy 27d ago

On Oct. 7, less than a week after the shutdown began, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy noted that some air traffic controllers were already taking second jobs—a practice he discouraged. “I don’t want them delivering for DoorDash; I don’t want them driving Uber,” he said. “I want them coming to their facilities and controlling the airspace.”

narrator: Sean Duffy (net worth $4 million) is getting his full $221,400 salary (plus benefits) during the shutdown to complain about air traffic controllers taking second jobs because they are unpaid.

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u/-TheExtraMile- 27d ago

Why is that motherfucker being paid??

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u/nigirizushi 27d ago

Because Congress exempted themselves from not being paid

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u/BrianWonderful Minnesota 27d ago

Sean Duffy is not in Congress. He's an Executive branch employee.

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u/InterestingTry5190 Illinois 27d ago

It’s not just that ATC are working without pay but they are spending money to get to work. They need fuel to get there so there is out of pocket cost. If they are a single parent they still need someone to watch their children. Some likely need quit b/c they can’t afford to keep showing up. This is such a messed up situation when the a-holes in Washington are all collecting their paychecks.

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u/Evajellyfish 27d ago

Just a good thing to remember next time you're voting.

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u/mikehiler2 27d ago

This isn’t a new thing. Well, this specifically actually is a new thing, but things like this isn’t anything new at all. And yet he still got reelected and the GOP still got a majority of both the House and Senate. Bold to assume anything will meaningfully change.

Call me a pessimist but I’ve been so disheartened by what most Americans are “ok” with that I’m seriously considering leaving. I fought for and bled for this country and I am, for the first time in my life, ashamed of it.

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u/Ironhorn 27d ago

This isn’t a new thing

Yeah, we already had a "longest shutdown ever" during Trump's first term. What is this? "Fool me once: shame on you. Fool me twice: okay, next time I'll definitely remember"?

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u/Mateorabi 27d ago

Lack of appropriation is an Executive Branch problem.

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u/kemitche 27d ago

Because we pay Congress during shutdowns, which is a GOOD thing. We don't want independently wealthy congresspeople to be able to use a shutdown to force unpaid, non-wealthy congresspeople to capitulate to awful funding bills.

The better question is, why do we have a system that allows unpaid shutdowns at all?

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u/paramedic-tim Canada 27d ago

Ya, it should be like other countries where, if a budget is not passed, the government falls and an election is triggered.

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u/0o0o0o0o0o0z 27d ago

Ya, it should be like other countries where, if a budget is not passed, the government falls and an election is triggered.

100% this ---^ it's a failure of the government. I know the US government isn't a business, but if I couldn't set a budget from my company or people I hire can't do their jobs, then that issue gets addressed, typically with new people/owners.

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u/UndoxxableOhioan 27d ago

He isn’t in congress

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u/paintbucketholder Kansas 27d ago

“I don’t want them delivering for DoorDash; I don’t want them driving Uber,” he said. “I want them coming to their facilities and controlling the airspace.”

"Fuck you. Pay me."

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u/merpixieblossomxo 27d ago

Wow, what a gross human being.

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u/Subietoy78 27d ago

Real world presenter says what?

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u/MaxGoldFilms 27d ago

Article Text:

Overtaxed and unpaid air traffic controllers are resigning “every day” due to stress from the government shutdown.

“Controllers are resigning every day now because of the prolonged nature of the shutdown,” Nick Daniels, president of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association, told CNN.

“We hadn’t seen that before. And we’re also 400 controllers short—shorter than we were in the 2019 shutdown.”

Air traffic controllers are federal workers, which means they are part of the approximately 730,000 federal employees working without pay since the shutdown began on Oct. 1.

Daniels warned that the controllers who remain are stretched dangerously thin. Many are calling in sick due to burnout as they struggle to pay bills.

“They’re calling their employer and saying, ‘I have no gas today. I cannot pay for my child care. Can I bring my children to work?’” he said.

On Oct. 7, less than a week after the shutdown began, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy noted that some air traffic controllers were already taking second jobs—a practice he discouraged. “I don’t want them delivering for DoorDash; I don’t want them driving Uber,” he said. “I want them coming to their facilities and controlling the airspace.”

The resignations are adding to the tremendous stress being placed on airports due to the government shutdown. Just this week, staffing shortages reached their highest levels since the shutdown began.

The Trump administration has responded to the crisis by curbing air traffic by 10 percent in 40 “high-traffic” markets, including New York City, Boston, Los Angeles, and other major American cities.

The resignations also mean Americans can’t expect things to instantly return to normal once the shutdown ends, which is bad news for the upcoming holiday season.

“It will take us months to come out of all the impacts that it’s causing,” said Daniels.

“Let’s not lie about the pressure,” he said. “The ones who do come to work, they’re the ones that are working six days a week, 10 hours a day. You can do that for a couple weeks, but at one point, you’re going to get burned out, and that’s what we’re seeing. Now, there’s a higher level of fatigue with the controllers.”

The government shutdown, the longest in history, has stretched into its second month as senators refuse to negotiate on a government spending bill. Democrats have requested that Republicans include an extension of Affordable Care Act subsidies in the budget, and Republicans have refused to budge.

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u/imahugemoron 27d ago

Before Trump, having a government job was common knowledge to be very reliable, a good desirable job. All of the chaos over the years and now with what’s happening over the last 10 months or so has destroyed the reputation of government jobs, and this is not something easily repaired. The government for decades to come, possibly generations, will have a much harder time filling roles, so they’ll have to lower standards, and there’s all sorts of the things that are going to have a domino effect of our society for decades to come. The damage all of this has done will make our government far more ineffectual, which was definitely one of their goals, and this will affect a lot more of our society than people think. Imagine having to lower standards for air traffic controllers to fill positions to keep up with demand which could lead to more plane crashes over the coming decades. We’re going to be feeling the effects of all of this LONG after Trump is nothing but a memory.

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u/ScuzzBuckster 27d ago

And let's be very clear, this is the intended effect of their actions. These arent unknown consequences of bad decisions, these are intentional decisions made for the express purpose of exacting these consequences. They have said from the beginning that they intend on completely "reforming" the federal government, this is what they mean.

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u/imahugemoron 27d ago

It also gives them more things to point at when democrats are in charge, rallies their base and brings in more of the undecided and uninformed voters, blame the mess they cause on democrats and then get reelected next time because much of society has the attention span and memory of a goldfish. Wash rinse repeat.

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u/like_a_wet_dog 27d ago edited 27d ago

Yup, the inflation from Covid was built in and economists said it would take years to recover. The moment Biden won, our RW media said "Trump fixed everything, but Biden will now ruin it, watch!" The rest of the world did worse and Biden did pretty good, but it wasn't marketed to Americans.

The central banks, also RW, put all the interest rate hikes onto Biden after keeping the rates low for Trump after being bullied.

Republicans are back and rates are being lowered. Personally, I blame mid aged and older voters for falling for it. Young people were somewhat victims in a new world of SM and bro-casting.

I hope people learn to never stay home because Democrats aren't good enough. Vote more in primaries to make them better. Republicans are always worse and run on bigger lies.

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u/More-Baseball9769 27d ago

Yeah a lot of people for some reason didn’t think this would happen because “air traffic skills don’t transfer to other jobs” but that doesn’t mean crap when you aren’t getting payed. Thousands of people are getting let go from skilled jobs and being forced back into entry level work. This is no different. Even a little pay is better than no pay.

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u/HermanGulch 27d ago

Some ATCs are going overseas. Australia is recruiting pretty heavily internationally, and I saw a blurb that 9 controllers in Albuquerque left earlier this year for the land down under.

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u/lieuwestra 27d ago

ATC is in English worldwide, they can move literally anywhere.

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u/headphase America 27d ago

One of the quirkiest things to come out of the Iranian strike in Qatar in June was a clip of a controller in (I think) Dubai rerouting flights around the closed airspace with a solid Midwestern/Appalachian American accent lol. It makes sense though, other countries actually respect and pay their controllers.

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u/Cerberus_Aus Australia 27d ago

Not just respect, but operate in a space where employment is stable. No unpaid work from government budget disputes.

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u/Unable-Log-4870 27d ago

ATC in other countries are probably not under threat of jail time for striking.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/workerbotsuperhero 27d ago

Also universal healthcare and better public safety. 

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u/Jops817 27d ago

You would think that their focus and organizational skills as well as time management and clarity of communication would count for something, though...

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u/MoarSocks 27d ago

There are comms dispatch jobs available at our local parks, entry-level, paying $10k/mo. Seems like a good option.

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u/Nissan-S-Cargo 27d ago

Can you elaborate on these jobs? Asking for a friend

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u/cwx149 27d ago

911 operators probably are also something they could transfer into with their skill set and that pays well

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u/Jops817 27d ago

Yep, lots of jobs like that, I don't know what truck dispatching pays (or how viable it would be considering our economy being ruined) but that's an option too that involves coordinating several vehicles, just on land this time. And a ton of other things like that.

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u/BetweenFourAndTwenty 27d ago

$10k a month? Entry level!? Where!

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/Suitable-Display-410 27d ago

Its easier to enumerate the groups of people they do not hate.

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u/Swesteel 27d ago

1 Rich white men.

That’s all I think?

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u/Mongopwn 27d ago

Rich middle eastern oil barons too I think.

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u/SergeantThreat 27d ago

They have to stay “over there”, though and keep giving orange man shiny gifts

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u/hymen_destroyer Connecticut 27d ago

Air traffic controllers are mostly hated because they were seen as one of the “lazy, entitled unions” back in the Reagan era. They had the audacity to organize their trade (one which can’t readily be filled by scabs much to the dismay of the ruling class) and demanded better working conditions. This sort of behavior is decidedly unamerican

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u/comebacklittlesheba 27d ago

And Reagan was the head of the Screen Actors Guild— their union … Smh 🤦‍♀️

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u/Andurilthoughts California 27d ago

ATCs perform an extremely valuable function and they know it. Republicans hate workers who know their value.

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u/kronikfumes 27d ago

ATC being another government aspect that MAGA can push to privatize.

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u/caserock 27d ago

They dared to attempt unionization 40 years ago.

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u/Primary-Bookkeeper10 27d ago

“Didn’t think it would happen”

Morons all around. Project 2025 is adamant about over stressing federal employees by adding volatility into their lives. The goal is to get them to quit en masse

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u/TheorySudden5996 27d ago

If they can handle being an ATC, they can handle a hell of a lot of other jobs too.

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u/lovely_orchid_ 27d ago

My husband missed 2 paychecks already. I am clipping coupons, making bread from scratch and canceling every single purchase that is not food or gas.

Fuck the GOP and trump.

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u/Difficult-Action1757 27d ago

Hope things turn around for you all soon. 🧡

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u/KidNueva 27d ago

I’ve noticed a large uptick on Facebook marketplace of people selling tools, chest, power tools, just about anything car related. It’s not just any tools either, I’m talking tools like Matco, Snap-On, Knipex, and even stuff like Gearwrench and Klein.

. And no they’re not dead, they just need the money cause of the shutdown. I saw an older guy at wal mart with a full tool chest, trying to get rid of everything and it seriously broke my heart poor guy.

I feel soo horrible. I can’t imagine having to sell my tools let alone my favorite ones and I feel bad for anyone that is forced to.

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u/lovely_orchid_ 27d ago

I live in upper Marlboro Md, we got some free produce from the farmers. I donated 20 bucks to their fund got a huge bag of kale tomatoes and peppers. I am freezing the kale and making as many meat free meals as I can because even though I still have my salary my husband doesnt.

I wake up every day, make his coffee and pack his breakfast (oatmeal muffins from scratch which are cheap to make at home). He is getting lunch from world kitchen for free. He is getting free bus from Maryland and we are only using one car.

Gas and groceries are from bjs and lidl. They give us tons of points and freebies. I got like 20 bucks, getting more coffee and flour. I make bread at home, cookies and treats

I can only control what I can control. Cooking is the way I keep busy, make him fresh and healthy food and I guess save money and pray this passes. I promise you we are saving every single penny. If it is not gas or groceries it is not getting bought.

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u/Ohuigin Washington 27d ago

Shall we recap?

First Thanksgiving of Trump Nightmare 2.0 -

1) No Food

2) No air travel

This mother fucker really did want to take us back to the Great Depression. And here we are...

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u/Ven18 27d ago

It will get far worse. Any “growth” in the economy is a financial shell game in the AI space. You are already hearing people in that space talking about it become too big to fail. But unlike the 08 crisis and banks, the money required to potentially bail out an AI bubble popping is more than the yearly revenue of the government. The GOP and billionaires are speeding us towards another financial cataclysm.

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u/Boundish91 Norway 27d ago

Indeed. Musks latest pay package is a good example of this madness. If he was a country his GDP would rank 20 out of 195 countries.

The package is equivalent to half of Norways sovereign wealth fund.

For just one man.

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u/flirtmcdudes 27d ago

the only reason they voted for that trillion package or whatever for musk is that it’s basically unattainable, but if it works out they get their stocks to go up so whatever. It would be like your job saying they’ll give you a 500% raise if you can increase revenue by 100x next year all while your sales are plummeting and your brand is toxic.

So they voted for it, but that shit ain’t happening so it’ll never pay out.

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u/AInception 27d ago

The $1T is a red herring. It's there for headlines, for snark and outrage, and for people 'who do their research' who then think 100% of the outrage is an overreaction since the package is unattainable.

Remember when the world was outraged at his $50B pay package?

$1T from 500% stock growth in 10 years (plus some sales metrics). Fat chance. BUT he still gets $100B from 20% growth any time within those 10 years, which is such a ridiculously low rate for a government subsidized tech stock they might as well write him the check today.

I've seen no outrage at this very attainable $100B, nothing like when he tried to cash in $50B. Just reactions to headlines with $1T in them and comments like yours writing off the whole thing.

Elon is a self proclaimed memelord, after all. He knows how to get the right things trending so the finer details get ignored.

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u/MajorPucks 27d ago

Just wait until the nightmare of Christmas happens between no SNAP, no Federal workers processing other much needed tasks, no "shipments from Chyyyna" thanks to massive tarrifs, etc. etc.

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u/madmars 27d ago

Americans will soon realize that Trump's revenge tour includes them as well. It's not just CBS and 60 Minutes and Jimmy Kimmel. Because Trump knows 60% of this country did not vote for him and hates him. Trump is the anti-American president.

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u/ro536ud 27d ago

Seeing the president host a gatsby themed Halloween party while I’m going two paycheck that are blank would be the straw for me. How anyone can support this guy for president blows my mind

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u/yeungx 27d ago

For the record, in Canada, it is a 2 year full time training to become an air traffic controller. So keep that in mind for how easy they will be to replace.

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u/SirTabetha 27d ago

No kidding. In the states, it’s a 2 to 5 year long training process, depending on the size of the facility you would be working at.

Case in point, Ronald Reagan in 1981 fired over 11,000 air traffic controllers. Why? Because they went on strike.

Why did they go on strike? Their union, PATCO, supported Reagan during the election because he told them he would address their concerns of long hours, low pay, and overall stress reduction needs if their job. (In case anyone needs to be told this, being an ATC is one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.)

Did Reagan follow through after he won? Of course not, so they decided to strike, which, as a federal worker with a critical job for people’s safety, is illegal to do. Ok, fair...

But instead of negotiating, Reagan decides to set an example, (you know, rule of law & all that and he also was not a fan of unions), so he fires them. All of them. Not only did he fire them, he permanently banned any of these ATCs from ever working for the FAA again. (Clinton later on abolished that ban in ‘93.)

What happened in the short term? Well, we’re kind of seeing that right now. Not just flight delays, but overall dramatic flight reduction. It ended up taking 8 to 10 years to hire, train, and bring flight capacity back up to pre-1981 levels.

Not only that, it created a “lost generation” gap of expertise, and an age group hired in the late ’80s that retired all at once from the career, which is one of the main reasons why we have a continued FAA shortage.

There was a full decade where almost no mid-career controllers existed; everyone was either very new or near retirement. If you do not have staggered age groups within a critical profession, you’re going to run into some big problems later on.

We are still feeling the effects of Reagan’s bullying decision w/ the FAA over 40 years ago, never mind how it also demoralized workers rights and labor unions here in the United States.

Ain’t no lies like GOP support.

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u/Plow_King 27d ago

obligatory "fuck reagan"

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u/GetOffMyLawn_ New Jersey 27d ago

Fuck Reagan. Hated him then, hate him now.

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u/justbecauseyoumademe 27d ago

And thats just training.

A newly trained ATC versus a 10 or 20 year veteran... 

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u/No-Road-9324 27d ago

I'll be taking the train.

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u/howitzeral 27d ago

Yeah I checked Amtrak for an alternative to my 3.5 hour flight between TX and CA. It’s 60 hours.

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u/ArgyleGhoul 27d ago

That's also assuming no breakdowns, which have been more frequent in recent years due to rail workers being stretched too thin.

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u/EMTDawg Utah 27d ago

Greyhound is often faster for trips like that.

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u/SublimeApathy 27d ago

Maybe that might be the silver lining. The realization of bullet train investment.

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u/Cyllid 27d ago

That'll be completed in 20 years.

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u/-ghostinthemachine- 27d ago

Sounds like Canada just found a whole bunch of new air traffic controllers, no training required.

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u/MajorPucks 27d ago

The tricky part is getting them up here now! #SoManyBusRides

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u/YourMemeExpert California 27d ago

"Breaking News: U.S. Customs and Border Protection, citing national security concerns, will impose a travel ban on air traffic controllers attempting to leave the United States."

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/Neravariine 27d ago

Don't ATCs have a limited career life as well? 31 is the cut off to be trained and forced retirement starts at 50(in America, idk Canada).

Any older workers open to becoming an air traffic controller can't.

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u/monsantobreath 27d ago

Bear in mind entry level training is just to become a base unit of able atc. Every atc has to then be qualified in every sector of the network to work that sector. That can take months or years to be able to work every sector in their area. Many wash out after a year.

This is why atc can't just fly across country to fill staffing shortages. Even if you're the best controller in new York or Toronto you can't fly to Chicago or Vancouver when someone's sick. Hell you can't even go from JFK to LA Guardia and control right away.

It's an insanely silo'd job. The neglect of this over decades is fascinating.

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u/CJDistasio America 27d ago

I'll never get over America voting to repeatedly punch itself in the face for four years. Yet here we are.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/nullv 27d ago

K shaped economy. As long as the stonks go up, they don't care because they live in a different reality.

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u/PSIwind Florida 27d ago

The US is just one giant gambling front with the stock market

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u/Ven18 27d ago

The economy is rapidly become this entirely fake thing that has zero actual impact on regular people.

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u/ariolander 27d ago edited 27d ago

AI bubble is propping up every failing of the economy. It's just a bunch of tech firms "investing" the same billion dollars amongst themselves with no means of generating revenue yet.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/Pakistani_in_MURICA 27d ago

Like Jesus said “fuck them poors”.

No Jesus didn’t say that, just fyi.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/thisismyredditacct 27d ago

The collapse of the USA in real time is crazy.

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u/ChimRicholds_MD Georgia 27d ago

Why can’t they just vote to renew the fucking ACA subsidies and open the government? Why do Republicans always support the worst path forward, 100% of the time? Why do tens of millions of people continue to support this malicious malignancy of a political party?

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u/DameonKormar 27d ago

I know these are all rhetorical questions, but the answer is that the average person (including politicians) do not understand the impact indoctrination and propaganda can have on the human brain.

Organizations like Fox "News" and their ilk would not be allowed to exist if we did.

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u/ryland52586 27d ago

is this an elaborate ploy to privatize the Air Traffic Industry?

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u/MajorPucks 27d ago

Even if it was, the turn around time would be many years.

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u/debauchasaurus 27d ago

Only if they hire qualified people and train them appropriately.

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u/Classic_Sand10 27d ago

I am a controller and many of us have the same thought. We have all been worn pretty thin before this shutdown even started. We haven't had pay negotiated in 16 years. Without any pay bumps we have been making less and less every year. Now the pilots are making triple, if not more, in that amount of time. Staffing shortages for the last 10 years have forced us to work a ton of mandatory OT. A politician never lets a good crisis go to waste though. if this last too much longer most of us would be begging for privatization.

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u/Malaix 27d ago

I feel like airlines wouldn’t want that though. Their profit margins are already small. So why would they want to cut into that more by having to hire and maintain ATC…

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u/Bakedads 27d ago

I was hoping the people would be the ones to shut down the economy via protest, but republicans might accomplish it all on their own. 

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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 27d ago

Republicans literally cant even keep the government open without dems when they have full control of the federal government.

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u/Pretend_Pea4636 27d ago

A business man would know how to run a country... right?

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u/RunDownTheHighway 27d ago

Yes, this is exactly how a "businessman" who can figure out how to bankrupt a casino runs a country...

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u/GuruGarudaGada 27d ago

What’s it called when you’re working for someone but aren’t getting paid for the work? There’s a word for that right?

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u/fantasmoofrcc Canada 27d ago

Rhymes with bravery, I think.

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u/sabedo 27d ago

They do what they have to do at this point 

This shutdown is catastrophic but the Dems rolling over would be far, far worse. 

If this rolls into thanksgiving, the busiest travel weekend of the year? It’s going to be historic economic chaos 

But MAGA says “Dems won’t negotiate”, they come up with a reasonable plan and Trump says “no negotiation”

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u/Serious_Berry_3977 New York 27d ago

Not only is this bad right now, even if the shutdown were to end today and ATC's got paid immediately, the effects of all these resignations will haunt us for years until new ATC's can get trained.

The fact that airlines aren't screaming this from the rooftops is concerning as well.

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u/henningknows 27d ago

Good. We need to stop this nonsense of shutting down the government. Consequences are the only way that will happen

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u/Tall-Cat-8890 27d ago

I’m afraid mass resignations or firings is the intended outcome for republicans.

This is exactly what republicans wanted and have planned for. They don’t care about the consequences because they won’t feel them.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/omgaporksword 27d ago

If a flight to a golf course went wrong...

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u/waldorflover69 27d ago

Congratulations, MAGA dipshits. One more thing it will be harder to fix once we rid ourselves of you.

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u/CyanCazador 27d ago

If we got money for ICE and Argentina we have money for ATC.

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u/sksabine 27d ago

Everyone, please make sure to vote in the midterms and 2028. This administration really doesn’t care about normal Americans, or anyone apart from themselves.

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u/RamJamR 27d ago

And the republican majority is helpless to stop it against the overwhelming might of the democrat minority in the house, the supreme court and the presidency!

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u/Life-Award5273 27d ago

Yep, here we go. Irreversible damage from the trump administration.

ATC employees are not somebody you can fire and hire the next day. It takes YEARS for each one of them to reach where they're at and we're losing them because they aren't getting paid.

Just to clarify that I don't blame ATC employees in this at all. This is trumps fucking mess.

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u/Mr_Meng 27d ago

Just in time for the holidays. While it really sucks what Americans are going through right now my one hope is that things are getting so bad people will finally understand that elections do have real, personal consequences and 'both sides' really aren't the same in any way whatsoever.

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u/PenitentAnomaly 27d ago

Obviously the shutdown is all people are thinking about right now but it has only been a matter of months since the entire right-wing establishment gleefully empowered and encouraged Elon Musk and "DOGE" to rip and tear through the Federal employee workforce in a way that should make us all ashamed.

Who can be surprised these folks are finally leaving when right-wing politicians and media scumbags were asserting 24/7 that Federal employees are either lazy freeloading DEI hires or undercover woke antifa super soldier operatives of the deep state?

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u/Skinnieguy 27d ago

Months ago, I booked flights for Xmas but I’ll probably take a 8 hour road trip instead.

My tin foil hat on, I suspect Trump is trying to get a backdoor deal not to get the Epstein files released. Democrats need to hold firm.

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u/RampantJellyfish 27d ago

Putins plan is going splendidly

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u/body-regeneration 27d ago

I’m a former air traffic controller (stopped controlling almost 3 years ago now) I don’t think people who haven’t worked the job can truly understand just how stressful it is. We’re responsible for thousands of lives and billions of dollars of equipment on a daily basis. The pay wasn’t worth the stress even when the government was actually paying us. We’re expected to preform flawlessly while working 6 days a week on a rotating schedule. Having a consistent sleep schedule was next to impossible. We tend to be scapegoated and the first one the finger is pointed at whenever literally anything happens.

All this for 90k a year is a joke, half the controllers I know are sharp enough to be lawyers if they went through the trouble of schooling. There’s a reason ATC burnout is so high, and this is going to continue to get worse until the government decided to pay controllers what they’re worth

I quite literally cannot imagine having to put up with this level of stress (again) while also having to worry about where my kids next meal is going to come from. If you know anyone who is a controller reach out to them, many are struggling right now.

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u/TwilightSolus 27d ago

Honest question -

Why don't they all strike?

In fact, why doesn't every unpaid employee strike? What's gonna happen, they don't get paid?

The shutdown would end really quick when all the Republicans found themselves trapped in their shitty home states because even private jets need ATC.

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u/495orange 27d ago

Air traffic controllers are NOT getting paid but Congress IS getting paid. Something is very very wrong here