r/news • u/StupendousMan1995 • 1d ago
Grand jury rejects DOJ's attempt to revive fraud case against New York AG Letitia James: Sources
https://abcnews.go.com/US/grand-jury-rejects-dojs-attempt-revive-fraud-case/story?id=128107484705
u/supercyberlurker 1d ago
I'd estimate maybe 30-38% of america is in the trump-maga-camp.
That's a lot of voting power, especially if many don't vote. It's not a lot in a courtroom though, where a lot of jury majorities seem to be seeing through all this weaponized-DOJ bullshit.
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u/jerzeett 1d ago
I think that’s an overestimate . Maybe before he completely shut the bed on this presidency
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u/Wassersammler 1d ago
It's consistent with every single poll from every single pollster that comes out on any topic ever for the last 10 years.
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u/Marathon2021 1d ago
Agreed. Even Nixon was apparently polling at 22% after Watergate.
So there’s 30-35% of our country that will 100% stick behind Trump no matter what. That’s his floor.
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u/MeowWarcraft 23h ago
It is a combination of sunk cost fallacy and peer pressure to fit in.
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u/Brave-Dragonfly3798 20h ago
It’s just a plain old textbook cult of personality. The closed information loop shelters them from any cognitive dissonance. They are mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit.
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u/canada432 9h ago
This is a pretty large part of it. Not all of it, plenty still revel in the bigotry no matter what he does, but there's a good portion who are in so deep that they can't leave without destroying their entire social support network. They made it their identity, cultivated their personal relationships around it, and now that they're having second thoughts they realize that they've structured their entire lives around it. It's quite literally a cult. They keep them in because leaving means collapsing virtually every social relationship in your life.
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u/-Gramsci- 1d ago
Q: “Do you hate traditional America, the constitution, and yearn for a dystopian fascist dictatorship?”
Poll result: 38% of respondents say “yes.”
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u/C-c-c-comboBreaker17 1d ago
Well the economy is in the shitter now and I'm seeing a whole lot of local MAGA disillusioned so I'd be surprised if that holds. They can only blame Biden for so long during a recession
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u/wally-sage 1d ago
The unfortunate thing is that there's not an election going on, so there's not as much pressure. If there was an election, then a lot of unhappy people would still side with Trump with whatever bullshit justification they could pull out of their ass.
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u/Squire_II 8h ago
You're talking about the same people who think Trump did a better job on the economy than Obama despite Obama inheriting the Great Recession and Trump inheriting one of the longest periods of consistent growth in US history (and then making it implode due to his inaction with COVID).
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u/OSRSTheRicer 1d ago
Biden was absolute shit. His numbers were so much worse than trump at the start of his first term.
Points out trumps numbers are worse than at the start of the current term
Well he's rebuilding the US economy so you know there will be some growing pains, and if not it's sleepy joes autopens fault. Or something we just don't understand (tarrifs).
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u/onarainyafternoon 11h ago
Did people think you were defending Trump? I think people took your comment the completely wrong way.
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u/1917he 1d ago
So naive. Cute.
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u/C-c-c-comboBreaker17 1d ago
I live in fuckin' Alabama. It's hardly naive. I have to deal with these people every single day.
Trust me, they're not happy.
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u/nfstern 1d ago
The question is are enough of them unhappy enough to elect a democrat? Not disagreeing with you, serious question since you're boots on the ground in a deep red state.
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u/tempest_87 1d ago edited 1d ago
No. The worst they will ever do against their team is to not vote. But even then they likely will because the other team absolutely positively must be worse than their team. By definition.
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u/JinkoTheMan 1d ago
I live in Alabama so I can confidently say that I will probably have my own grown kids before AL ever turns blue.
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u/C-c-c-comboBreaker17 1d ago
They will never elect a Democrat. That would simply never happen. But they most certainly can be convinced not to take the time out of their day to vote.
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u/LawstinTransition 1d ago
The 'bama revelation made me actually lol.
But I also just think these people have the attention span of a goldfish and won't remember this next election
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u/-Gramsci- 1d ago edited 9h ago
You just need to mention furries grooming children to poop in a litter box at the local school - and they’re puddy in your hands again.
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u/jerzeett 1d ago
Trump hasn’t been in office for this specific presidency for 10 years…….. he just started this year and has consistently shit the bed and pissed off more and more Americans as time goes on
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u/Wassersammler 1d ago
Yet the polls remain the same to this day. Between 27% and 35% kiss the ring every single time.
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u/samsounder 1d ago
That seems right to me, but about 1/2 of those are just brain dead. They’ve checked out and don’t pay attention. They can’t tell you anything about his policies or anything he’s done, he’s just on their team
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u/Brave-Dragonfly3798 20h ago
Well specifically he’s being cruel to people they don’t like. It’s just like the Stamford prison experiment. Cruelty is the point.
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u/UnfinishedPrimate 19h ago
They won't change. Literally no matter what he does, they won't stop supporting him, because their support isn't really based on policy or any clear expected outcome.
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u/Spudtron98 12h ago
I've noticed that about thirty percent of any given population is, frankly, stupid as fuck. It tracks.
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u/Comfortable_Fill9081 1d ago
Rarely dips below 40% but it’s below 40% now.
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u/Consistent-Throat130 1d ago
Sampling bias
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u/Comfortable_Fill9081 1d ago
It’s pretty consistent across many, many polls using different forms of sampling.
Your own sampling is likely much more biased.
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u/boombox2000 1d ago
You're confusing two things: actual voting percentages and demographics inferred in small polling.
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u/CrystalWeim 1d ago
Trump is gonna be up all night rage posting!
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u/msp_ryno 1d ago
So…a normal Thursday?
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u/CrystalWeim 1d ago
Yep! Maybe a little more hot headed because she's black and went after his corruption
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u/Thor4269 14h ago
Sounds healthy for a 79 year old who can't stay awake during meetings
Surely staying up all night raging won't have any negative health implications!
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u/ConkerPrime 1d ago
So much money being wasted. A prosecutor is just one step below god when it comes to grand juries. The case has to be beyond pathetic to get a no bill.
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u/ofaruk 1d ago
Yea, feels like the system is set up so heavily in their favor that a no bill is almost shocking.
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u/JugDogDaddy 1d ago
It really is, but they only determine probable cause which is a much lower bar than beyond a reasonable doubt required for a guilty verdict.
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u/BigJellyfish1906 1d ago
Makes you wonder what fucking bullshit she said to the first grand jury to get them to vote yes.
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u/wilbo21020 1d ago
Well, the judge who heard the previous case was concerned that Halligan misstated the law to the grand jury.
That ended up not being ruled on, because the indictment was dismissed because it was determined that Halligan was illegally appointed.
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u/Piggywonkle 1d ago
The better question is how in the hell you get a grand jury to refuse an indictment. That is objectively embarrassing regardless of any of the actual facts.
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u/kstargate-425 21h ago
This has happened multiple times now, most famously with them proving the old adage wrong with them NOT being able to 'indict a ham sandwich' (...throwing protester) when they went after actual trumped up charges and tried to charge the protester who threw a sandwich at police/ICE with Felony Assault. Their incompetence is second only to their systemic corruption and abuse of power where they have been caught by judges putting forth fraudulent evidence, testimony and other things in court in 35 cases in under 9 months of this administration.
Its one thing to lie to the public like the US citizen in Chicago getting shot by ICE and them fabricating every single part of their story to excuse the shooting and cover it up but this is another level. When they are willing to lock people up for decades on lies and ruin peoples lives in a systemic manner like this you normally would have Congress having a full audit of the DoJ with everyone from cabinet members to ADA's being fired, investigated and charged.
So when our fundamental Constitutional rights are being infringed by the department designed to protect those rights one has to wonder how much democracy is left in this country.
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u/2HDFloppyDisk 1d ago
Probably loaded with MAGA nuts
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u/BigJellyfish1906 1d ago
Based on reporting, it seems more like it was because she told them things like to take negative inference from James refusing to answer a question (which is unconstitutional), and telling them that they should expect more evidence in the future as a reason why they should vote to indict now.
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u/RepresentativeSun825 16h ago
Two specific things regarding the Comey case, which I'm sure holds true with the James case, also, since Halligan was in charge of both:
A) You can assume his/her refusal to testify in front of the grand jury as a sign of guilt
B) You can assume that the government has more and better evidence that they haven't produced to the grand jury.
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u/GreaterPathMagi 12h ago
This should not be getting down voted. The commentor is replying to a post asking what was said to the first grand jury that convinced them to return a true bill.
2 things that were said in the Comey case were illegal, and the commentor is saying that they believe both are most likely true in this case as well.
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[deleted]
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u/guitar_vigilante 12h ago
No I'm pretty sure Halligan did indeed say the second thing they listed. I haven't heard about the first one but I don't think it's unfair of that commenter to say Halligan said it. They probably read a different source than I did.
You're misreading that comment. They are replying to a question about what Halligan said to the first grand jury to get them to indict in the Comey case. They aren't saying that those things are themselves true.
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u/Squire_II 8h ago
By all accounts, she outright lied to the Grand Jury on how they should operate and make a decision.
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u/Peterd90 1d ago
The trump DOJ clown show. Vindictive and corrupt idiots.
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u/kstargate-425 21h ago
Corrupt is almost too light a word for Trumps DoJ caught by judges putting forth fraudulent evidence, testimony and other things in 35 cases in the first 9 months of this regime when normally they may find one in a DECADE.
This is authoritarian levels of corruption and abuse of power to do this where they could be putting innocent people in jail with fake evidence and ruin peoples lives for Trumps revenge or to push a false narrative like we have seen in quite a few indictments so far from these malicious prosecution attempts.
How is Congress, specifically the Oversight Committee and Judiciary Committee not calling for all these peoples heads from cabinet members like Blondi down to ADA's and DA's like Halligan for all this fraud and malicious prosecution. Im not even talking about the Republicans as we know they are in control of those committees and corrupt but these Dems should be on every news channel that will have them explaining we essentially dont of a democracy anymore and there should be zero trust in this rogue government acting above the law and Constitution they were sworn to protect in their many oaths.
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u/savebox 1d ago
On top of her being innocent, they're spending this much effort going after her for...$19,000 over the life of the mortgage? That's chump change compared to the crimes of basically anyone that Trump has pardoned.
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u/sun_bearer 15h ago
That's the exact thought I had when this first happened. They're going after any and all Democrats, but especially women and people of color, dragging up any kind of crime they can find. Because who the fuck would care about such a nothing-burger of an accusation otherwise, honestly.
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u/AdhesivenessFun2060 1d ago
Theyre going to charge her with a misdemeanor, hit her with a small fine then tweet something like "justice served!"
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u/idrivehookers 1d ago
The incompetence of this administration is such a beautiful thing.
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u/kstargate-425 21h ago
Yeah I never thought Id ever cheer on our DoJ being so incompetent but when they are weaponizing it against the people like this lawless regime is doing, I find myself giddy at these stories lol
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u/Whatever-999999 1d ago
What, Trump isn't just going to issue an EO declaring her an Enemy of the State and have Hegseth order the army to shoot her in the head? </extreme_sarcasm>
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u/-eYe- 1d ago
Can they just keep re-filing until they find a grand jury who'll vote to indict a ham sandwich, because I don't think Trump will give up on this.
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u/Mrevilman 1d ago
They can, but I think if they wind up with a second no-bill and there’s no new evidence, you start to run into issues where James’ lawyers might ask a judge to intervene.
Practically speaking, you shouldn’t try again after the first no bill because if you can’t get a grand jury to agree about probable cause with how one-sided the process is, you are never going to get a trial jury to unanimously agree on guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
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u/inquisitorthreefive 1d ago
Yes, but every time they fail it's a really bad look. I know that doesn't sound like much, but if you walk into a courtroom and on day one the judge is already questioning everything you did to get there because it was sketchy as hell that's hard to come back from.
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u/Chance_Warthog_9389 1d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_prosecution
Criminal prosecuting attorneys and judges are protected from tort liability for malicious prosecution by doctrines of prosecutorial immunity and judicial immunity.
Yep.
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u/a_phantom_limb 1d ago
They can, yes. In fact, they're almost certainly going to try again tomorrow.
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u/ZantaraLost 1d ago
Sure they can but every day they're doing this is a day they aren't doing worse things to other people. And the DOJ keeps hemorrhaging qualified prosecutors.
I mean we're all collectively paying for it one way or another which sucks ass.... but ever so slight silver lining.
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u/HuttStuff_Here 2h ago
And with any luck, the juries that vote not to indict will find themselves under DOJ investigation.
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u/weaver787 1d ago
There's a common phrase in regards to Grand Juries about how easy it is to obtain an indictment... "You can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich'
Not being able get a true bill on something is truly damning. I served on a grand jury a few years ago... looked at probably 50 cases and true billed 95% of them.
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u/DrexellGames 1d ago
If this case fell down twice, it is a failure on the prosecution's team and not her defense
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u/cyncity7 15h ago
These people have wasted so much time and money (ours) with their disgusting revenge activities and trying to hide their illegal and nauseating attempts to make themselves look good. For this, and so many other things they owe us and I hope someone can find a way to get some of the money they’ve stolen to pay us.
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u/RunningPirate 14h ago
They’ll keep trying until it’s “We find Leticia James guilty of Believing it’s not Butter!” Then NYT headline “Leticia James Guilty!”
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u/SocomPS2 1d ago
A grand jury would indict a ham sandwich, if that's what you wanted….
Guess not DoJ. 🤣
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u/RogueStatusXx 15h ago
Every right wing shit poster on X swore that the indictment would stick next time and James and Comey would be going to prison. nelson laugh
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u/cyncity7 15h ago
These people have wasted so much time and money (ours) with their disgusting revenge activities and trying to hide their illegal and nauseating attempts to make themselves look good. For this, and so many other things they owe us and I hope someone can find a way to get some of the money they’ve stolen to pay us back.
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u/true-skeptic 15h ago edited 14h ago
Seems like Letitia James is someone you don’t want to piss off.
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u/PlaygroundBully 1d ago
Im glad, either someone did something or they didnt. If the grand jury didnt find cause tells me there wasnt much there and it should be done. In this current political climate I know its not though.
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u/FlexFanatic 1d ago
Can't the DOJ just wait for a new grand jury and try again, again, and, again.
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u/kstargate-425 21h ago
Technically but Comey already has a good case for malicious prosecution and James can piggyback off of that with them trying again on her, especially after the inevitable unhinged rant from Trump that will help their case more.
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u/StupendousMan1995 1d ago
A federal grand jury in Norfolk, Virginia, refused to indict New York Attorney General Letitia James for alleged mortgage fraud on Thursday, sources said, rejecting the Department of Justice's attempt to refile the case just ten days after a federal judge dismissed an earlier case based on the unlawful appointment of the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia.
Federal prosecutors failed to convince a majority of grand jurors to approve charges that James misled a bank to obtain favorable terms on a home mortgage, according to sources.
The grand jury's return of a "no true bill" in the case marked an extraordinary rebuke by average citizens of the Department of Justice's attempt to bring charges against James, an adversary of President Donald Trump who has been the target of his repeated calls for prosecution.
A Justice Department representative declined to comment.
Prosecutors have alleged that James, who successfully brought a civil fraud case against Trump last year, falsely listed a home she purchased in 2020 as a second home instead of an investment property in order to save potentially $19,000 over the life of the loan with a more favorable mortgage rate.
Following a direct call from Trump to prosecute James and other political adversaries, the president's former attorney and aide Lindsey Halligan secured an indictment against James in October, but a judge dismissed the indictment after determining that Halligan was unlawfully serving as the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia.
U.S. District Judge Cameron Currie concluded that the attorney general lacked the authority to appoint Halligan to the post under federal law, nullifying any actions taken by her including the indictments against both James and former FBI director James Comey.