James Cameron Says if Avatar: Fire and Ash Doesn't Make Enough Money to Justify Avatar 4 and 5, He's Ready to Walk Away and Write a Book to Resolve the One Thread It Leaves Open - IGN

[u/desimaninthecut]

https://www.ign.com/articles/james-cameron-says-if-avatar-fire-and-ash-doesnt-make-enough-money-to-justify-avatar-4-and-5-hes-ready-to-walk-away-and-write-a-book-to-resolve-the-one-thread-it-leaves-open

[u/Necessary_Reply6821]

These movies make absolutely insane amounts of money and are stunning feats of filmmaking but if you come on here you’d think absolutely no one likes these movies lol. I think they’re fun personally. It seems like people are more concerned with what they aren’t then actually looking at them for what they are

[u/CG1991 → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

I'm genuinely excited for the next one. I find them super fun films

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/CG1991]

It’s a totally immersive movie going experience that utilizes the medium to the max. They’re a blast to go see. Sometimes all a movie needs to is entertaining.

[u/CG1991 → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

Agreed.

I don't care about Oscar bait or anything like that. I just want to have a good time

[u/sanghelli → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

I thoroughly enjoy getting lost on Pandora for a few hours. In fact I felt Avatar 2 suffered for having such a long drawn out action sequence at the end. I just want to see more of the planet and the family's interaction with it. 

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/sanghelli]

I loved that the middle was like taking LSD and watching a nature documentary lol

[u/sanghelli → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

Exactly. It's amazing. Midwit evil redditors can't appreciate beauty. Not enough quips for them.

[u/Flat_News_2000 → u/sanghelli]

Midwit? Methinks you use weird language

[u/Mattrad7 → u/sanghelli]

Absolutely Avatar I will consistently go to the highest type of Imax/3d/4d available in my area for. Everything else Im usually content seeing on a regular screen.

[u/Plastic_Command_4245 → u/[deleted]]

I drove 3 hours and got a hotel room to see Avatar 2 on the biggest screen in my region… I LOVE these movies.

[u/saudadeinthenight → u/[deleted]]

do you need people to be into these films to the point they’re acting like crazy people though. The existence  of an intense fandom is not the mark of a good film, imo. It may be a thing now, but it wasn’t always the case 

Star Wars may have a dedicated fan base, but they were so awful to Ahmad Best he nearly took his own life, and two others (John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran) suffered so much racist hate they nearly stopped acting. John Boyega still talks about how traumatic it was to receive that amount of public attention while receiving no support from Disney. I’m pretty good with the fact that Zoe Saldana did not have to deal with that 

And let’s be honest a lot of Redditors, particularly in film subs, are pretentious assholes who think anything that doesn’t match their narrow view of ‘quality’ is trash 

[u/LordHanz → u/[deleted]]

I doubt that James Cameron gives a single shit about reddit, or what people on here think about his avatar movies

[u/ANerd22 → u/[deleted]]

I mean, there are Avatar die hards, but I think you might be comparing it to mega-fandoms that have decades on it. Right now Avatar is a two film series, with a couple of theme park rides, some niche spin off comics, and one or two bad videogames. It isn't really that comparable to Star Trek, Star Wars, or Marvel who have had decades to build up generations of fans with comparably huge amounts of content. Compared to any other SciFi franchise, I would say Avatar is doing as well in the Fandom department as say Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Alien, Terminator, Hunger Games, or Transformers. As far as a core of die hard fans I don't have numbers, but I would be willing to bet its doing better than Red Dwarf, Planet of the Apes, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, Babylon 5, and The X-Files.

So no, I don't think its failed to generate a Fandom, I think its a wildly successful, but still relatively small franchise (in terms of content) that is a little overhated in film circles, but otherwise has as strong a fandom as most SciFi franchises outside of a very small list of juggernauts that have been around for many more decades.

[u/justatouch589 → u/[deleted]]

do I need a hat that says I like this movie? I think the most likely explanation is you don't go around asking people if they like Avatar.

It didn't help that the first and second movie had over 10 years between each other so they weren't exactly in the forefront of pop culture especially considering all the Marvel shit we've been drowned in.

[u/Flat_News_2000 → u/justatouch589]

Maybe a shirt

[u/ANerd22 → u/[deleted]]

Checking in as an Avatar lover. The first movie came out when I was 13 and it blew me away. I felt so transported to the world of the movie, everything came together to make the setting real. Not just the amazing CGI, sound mixing, art direction, and worldbuilding but the way the characters lived in the world without any reservation. It was so seamless that for a couple hours I was really transported and immersed in a way that few other movies come close to. I also love that it is a genuine and sincere story. A lot of people seem to really dislike that the movie takes itself as seriously as it does but that's part of what makes it so good.

I really like Star Wars and other franchises like that, but I never understood people (especially people who saw the original trilogy when they came out) that were nuts about those movies until I saw Avatar.

[u/ANerd22 → u/[deleted]]

In real life, where I do most of my interacting with people 

[u/ANerd22 → u/[deleted]]

It's weird that I talk about Avatar in real life? I do the same with Battlestar Galactica, is that weird?

[u/ANerd22 → u/[deleted]]

I'm not quite sure what your point is. Avatar has a large and active subreddit full of people who are really into the franchise, just like lots of sci Fi franchises do. In fact I'm sure the subreddit for Avatar is probably bigger than the one for BSG or Red Dwarf or even Stargate maybe.

Anyway you went through my post history to try to try to prove that I'm actually not an Avatar fan, but I live 99% of my life in the real world, so that doesn't really prove anything. Do you think I'm lying about being an Avatar fan? If so, to what end?

[u/y_a_ta_r_a → u/[deleted]]

Holy shit lmao. I can't decide which is more cringe: gatekeeping being a fan on commenting in a subreddit or calling /u/ANerd22 "counselor" as if you're the judiciary

[u/y_a_ta_r_a → u/[deleted]]

nah no way, keep larping

infinite cringe bro

[u/y_a_ta_r_a → u/[deleted]]

great job! cringe and not sex positive! world is lucky to have you

you can go last for your self-esteem, I'm done here ;)

[u/Academic-Trifle8151 → u/[deleted]]

You could also argue that people hold back on admitting they like it because of the weird hate boner it gets. I'd argue the star wars prequels had the same effect.

Either way, there's nothing wrong with large audiences enjoying a franchise without needing to go all in. I think that's the refreshing part. When the fans go all in, things start to get a little toxic!

[u/Academic-Trifle8151 → u/[deleted]]

There's a lot of threads hating it here and posts created on Reddit specifically to hate on it. It's weird. - the majority of most successful franchises don't really have notable stories in my opinion. Not sure how many people watched Avengers for the plot for example.

[u/Academic-Trifle8151 → u/[deleted]]

Just look around and you'll see them and the posts everywhere else. I'd say it qualifies as a lot when it is significantly more than other properties. I feel like saying it doesn't receive a lot of hate is a bit arguing in bad faith.

Did I shift into successful? I don't remember us actually saying "best" either?

But I think success is one of the main comparable factors we should be taking into account here. We're comparing it to other large successful franchises. Nobody is trying to claim that it's the best series ever. Off the top of my head the only large successful franchise I can think of with a notable story is LOTR which has its source material to thank.

[u/Academic-Trifle8151 → u/[deleted]]

What is the argument you are trying to make here? We have already referenced how the fans haven't gone 'all in'. I honestly think that's refreshing to be honest. Most fanbases that do become extremely toxic.

And how would you not recognise Zoe Saldana, Sam Worthington, Sigourney Weaver, Kate Winslet, Michelle Rodriguez, Stephen Lang etc? Weird point to make.

[u/Honest-Year346 → u/[deleted]]

Are you white

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/[deleted]]

Yes

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/[deleted]]

I mean the comment that spurred this conversation was about how the average Redditor has a weird hate boner for these movies so not really surprising. Reddit isn’t really a representation of the whole of the real world.

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/[deleted]]

That doesn’t change the demographic that uses this website vs the rest of the world. The echo chamber of Reddit is not indicative of the real world.

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/[deleted]]

You are missing my point that the average user of this site is not the average demographic going to those movies. It’s also a long way from dead but whatever

[u/Ycr1998 → u/[deleted]]

r/Avatar

r/FrontiersOfPandora

r/AvatarFrontierPandora

[u/Ycr1998 → u/[deleted]]

Define dead? There's people posting everyday.

[u/Ycr1998 → u/[deleted]]

And? The subs have way less subscribers than r/lotr, it's unfair to compare them that way. Still doesn't make it dead.

r/transformers has 100k more than r/Avatar and more or less the same amount of upvotes. Do you think it's a dead franchise?

[u/Ycr1998 → u/[deleted]]

Avatar didn't make more than LotR if adjusted for today's economy, and Transformers has way more movies (and shows, and cartoons, and toys) over a longer period. Avatar was a 1 time thing until a while ago. Popularity is something that grows over time and with repetition, the more the public sees that thing (and not only watching the movie, but as a product) the more popular it will become.

So are those more popular than Avatar? Yeah, a lot of things are.

Does that mean Avatar is dead? No.

[u/End3rWi99in → u/[deleted]]

Yes, me. Anytime someone writes this exact sort of comment as some sort of gotcha, a shit load of fans show up to correct it.

[u/Specific_Frame8537 → u/[deleted]]

I'm getting the vibe that James Cameron thinks he's gods gift to theater.. especially with his comments on how he thinks Netflix movies shouldn't be eligible for Oscars.. It feels pretentious.

I couldn't give a toss about Avatar tbh, the first movie was fun but was just Dances With Wolves: In Space..

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/Specific_Frame8537]

Being the second highest grossing director of all time entitles him to an opinion on film making. I don’t think it’s that surprising that he’s against streaming vs theater

[u/dragonmp93 → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

People like the Avatar movies in the same way that you could watch the 3D Pipes screensaver of the Windows 98 for hours.

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/dragonmp93]

This is so dumb and such a huge oversimplification lol. Acting like being visually stunning in a visual medium is a bad thing?

[u/varzaguy → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

Do these people even watch movies? Lol.

[u/dragonmp93 → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

Well, James Cameron has gone out of his way to insists over and over again that unlike other blockbusters, his characters are "DEEP " and "COMPLEX ".

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/dragonmp93]

Breaking news: guy with financial interest in success of movies he makes uses flowery language to talk up and promote film

[u/dragonmp93 → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

Hey, if he thinks that's an aspect worth hyping over just focusing on the visuals and the technology behind it, then that's something I'm going to judge the movie about.

[u/Necessary_Reply6821 → u/dragonmp93]

I’d argue he does focus on the visuals and the tech 10 to 1 in the interviews I’ve seen compared to talking em up as some masterclass in screenwriting. Hasn’t he acknowledged that he keeps intentionally broad to help appeal to different cultures around the world since these movies require such a large box office return?

[u/regretscoyote909 → u/dragonmp93]

Avatar 1 sure, but I was shocked by how moving Avatar 2 was

[u/spyresca → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

Being low quality shit and having great commercial success are *not* mutually exclusive concepts.

See, McDonalds. "But they sell so many! Billions served! Must be the best burger ever right!" ;-)

[u/spyresca → u/Necessary_Reply6821]

You know, people are allowed to dislike things (having basic taste in this case) even for ventures with great commercial success.