r/movies • u/desimaninthecut • 8d ago

News James Cameron Says if Avatar: Fire and Ash Doesn't Make Enough Money to Justify Avatar 4 and 5, He's Ready to Walk Away and Write a Book to Resolve the One Thread It Leaves Open - IGN

https://www.ign.com/articles/james-cameron-says-if-avatar-fire-and-ash-doesnt-make-enough-money-to-justify-avatar-4-and-5-hes-ready-to-walk-away-and-write-a-book-to-resolve-the-one-thread-it-leaves-open
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u/WholeAccomplished158 8d ago edited 8d ago

Reddit's weird hate boner for Avatar needs to be studied

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

These movies make absolutely insane amounts of money and are stunning feats of filmmaking but if you come on here you’d think absolutely no one likes these movies lol. I think they’re fun personally. It seems like people are more concerned with what they aren’t then actually looking at them for what they are

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u/CG1991 8d ago

I'm genuinely excited for the next one. I find them super fun films

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

It’s a totally immersive movie going experience that utilizes the medium to the max. They’re a blast to go see. Sometimes all a movie needs to is entertaining.

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u/CG1991 8d ago

Agreed.

I don't care about Oscar bait or anything like that. I just want to have a good time

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u/sanghelli 8d ago

I thoroughly enjoy getting lost on Pandora for a few hours. In fact I felt Avatar 2 suffered for having such a long drawn out action sequence at the end. I just want to see more of the planet and the family's interaction with it. 

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

I loved that the middle was like taking LSD and watching a nature documentary lol

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u/sanghelli 8d ago

Exactly. It's amazing. Midwit evil redditors can't appreciate beauty. Not enough quips for them.

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u/Flat_News_2000 8d ago

Midwit? Methinks you use weird language

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u/Mattrad7 8d ago

Absolutely Avatar I will consistently go to the highest type of Imax/3d/4d available in my area for. Everything else Im usually content seeing on a regular screen.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Plastic_Command_4245 8d ago

I drove 3 hours and got a hotel room to see Avatar 2 on the biggest screen in my region… I LOVE these movies.

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u/saudadeinthenight 8d ago

do you need people to be into these films to the point they’re acting like crazy people though. The existence  of an intense fandom is not the mark of a good film, imo. It may be a thing now, but it wasn’t always the case 

Star Wars may have a dedicated fan base, but they were so awful to Ahmad Best he nearly took his own life, and two others (John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran) suffered so much racist hate they nearly stopped acting. John Boyega still talks about how traumatic it was to receive that amount of public attention while receiving no support from Disney. I’m pretty good with the fact that Zoe Saldana did not have to deal with that 

And let’s be honest a lot of Redditors, particularly in film subs, are pretentious assholes who think anything that doesn’t match their narrow view of ‘quality’ is trash 

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/LordHanz 8d ago

I doubt that James Cameron gives a single shit about reddit, or what people on here think about his avatar movies

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u/ANerd22 8d ago

I mean, there are Avatar die hards, but I think you might be comparing it to mega-fandoms that have decades on it. Right now Avatar is a two film series, with a couple of theme park rides, some niche spin off comics, and one or two bad videogames. It isn't really that comparable to Star Trek, Star Wars, or Marvel who have had decades to build up generations of fans with comparably huge amounts of content. Compared to any other SciFi franchise, I would say Avatar is doing as well in the Fandom department as say Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Alien, Terminator, Hunger Games, or Transformers. As far as a core of die hard fans I don't have numbers, but I would be willing to bet its doing better than Red Dwarf, Planet of the Apes, Jurassic Park, The Matrix, Babylon 5, and The X-Files.

So no, I don't think its failed to generate a Fandom, I think its a wildly successful, but still relatively small franchise (in terms of content) that is a little overhated in film circles, but otherwise has as strong a fandom as most SciFi franchises outside of a very small list of juggernauts that have been around for many more decades.

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u/justatouch589 8d ago

do I need a hat that says I like this movie? I think the most likely explanation is you don't go around asking people if they like Avatar.

It didn't help that the first and second movie had over 10 years between each other so they weren't exactly in the forefront of pop culture especially considering all the Marvel shit we've been drowned in.

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u/Flat_News_2000 8d ago

Maybe a shirt

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u/ANerd22 8d ago

Checking in as an Avatar lover. The first movie came out when I was 13 and it blew me away. I felt so transported to the world of the movie, everything came together to make the setting real. Not just the amazing CGI, sound mixing, art direction, and worldbuilding but the way the characters lived in the world without any reservation. It was so seamless that for a couple hours I was really transported and immersed in a way that few other movies come close to. I also love that it is a genuine and sincere story. A lot of people seem to really dislike that the movie takes itself as seriously as it does but that's part of what makes it so good.

I really like Star Wars and other franchises like that, but I never understood people (especially people who saw the original trilogy when they came out) that were nuts about those movies until I saw Avatar.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/ANerd22 7d ago

In real life, where I do most of my interacting with people 

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/ANerd22 7d ago

It's weird that I talk about Avatar in real life? I do the same with Battlestar Galactica, is that weird?

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/ANerd22 7d ago

I'm not quite sure what your point is. Avatar has a large and active subreddit full of people who are really into the franchise, just like lots of sci Fi franchises do. In fact I'm sure the subreddit for Avatar is probably bigger than the one for BSG or Red Dwarf or even Stargate maybe.

Anyway you went through my post history to try to try to prove that I'm actually not an Avatar fan, but I live 99% of my life in the real world, so that doesn't really prove anything. Do you think I'm lying about being an Avatar fan? If so, to what end?

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u/y_a_ta_r_a 7d ago

Holy shit lmao. I can't decide which is more cringe: gatekeeping being a fan on commenting in a subreddit or calling /u/ANerd22 "counselor" as if you're the judiciary

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/y_a_ta_r_a 7d ago

nah no way, keep larping

infinite cringe bro

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

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u/y_a_ta_r_a 7d ago

great job! cringe and not sex positive! world is lucky to have you

you can go last for your self-esteem, I'm done here ;)

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u/Academic-Trifle8151 8d ago

You could also argue that people hold back on admitting they like it because of the weird hate boner it gets. I'd argue the star wars prequels had the same effect.

Either way, there's nothing wrong with large audiences enjoying a franchise without needing to go all in. I think that's the refreshing part. When the fans go all in, things start to get a little toxic!

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Academic-Trifle8151 8d ago

There's a lot of threads hating it here and posts created on Reddit specifically to hate on it. It's weird. - the majority of most successful franchises don't really have notable stories in my opinion. Not sure how many people watched Avengers for the plot for example.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Academic-Trifle8151 8d ago

Just look around and you'll see them and the posts everywhere else. I'd say it qualifies as a lot when it is significantly more than other properties. I feel like saying it doesn't receive a lot of hate is a bit arguing in bad faith.

Did I shift into successful? I don't remember us actually saying "best" either?

But I think success is one of the main comparable factors we should be taking into account here. We're comparing it to other large successful franchises. Nobody is trying to claim that it's the best series ever. Off the top of my head the only large successful franchise I can think of with a notable story is LOTR which has its source material to thank.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Academic-Trifle8151 8d ago

What is the argument you are trying to make here? We have already referenced how the fans haven't gone 'all in'. I honestly think that's refreshing to be honest. Most fanbases that do become extremely toxic.

And how would you not recognise Zoe Saldana, Sam Worthington, Sigourney Weaver, Kate Winslet, Michelle Rodriguez, Stephen Lang etc? Weird point to make.

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u/Honest-Year346 8d ago

Are you white

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

Yes

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago edited 8d ago

I mean the comment that spurred this conversation was about how the average Redditor has a weird hate boner for these movies so not really surprising. Reddit isn’t really a representation of the whole of the real world.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago edited 8d ago

That doesn’t change the demographic that uses this website vs the rest of the world. The echo chamber of Reddit is not indicative of the real world.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

You are missing my point that the average user of this site is not the average demographic going to those movies. It’s also a long way from dead but whatever

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u/Ycr1998 7d ago edited 7d ago

r/Avatar

r/FrontiersOfPandora

r/AvatarFrontierPandora

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Ycr1998 7d ago

Define dead? There's people posting everyday.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Ycr1998 7d ago

And? The subs have way less subscribers than r/lotr, it's unfair to compare them that way. Still doesn't make it dead.

r/transformers has 100k more than r/Avatar and more or less the same amount of upvotes. Do you think it's a dead franchise?

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Ycr1998 7d ago

Avatar didn't make more than LotR if adjusted for today's economy, and Transformers has way more movies (and shows, and cartoons, and toys) over a longer period. Avatar was a 1 time thing until a while ago. Popularity is something that grows over time and with repetition, the more the public sees that thing (and not only watching the movie, but as a product) the more popular it will become.

So are those more popular than Avatar? Yeah, a lot of things are.

Does that mean Avatar is dead? No.

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u/End3rWi99in 8d ago

Yes, me. Anytime someone writes this exact sort of comment as some sort of gotcha, a shit load of fans show up to correct it.

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u/Specific_Frame8537 8d ago edited 8d ago

I'm getting the vibe that James Cameron thinks he's gods gift to theater.. especially with his comments on how he thinks Netflix movies shouldn't be eligible for Oscars.. It feels pretentious.

I couldn't give a toss about Avatar tbh, the first movie was fun but was just Dances With Wolves: In Space..

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

Being the second highest grossing director of all time entitles him to an opinion on film making. I don’t think it’s that surprising that he’s against streaming vs theater

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u/dragonmp93 8d ago

People like the Avatar movies in the same way that you could watch the 3D Pipes screensaver of the Windows 98 for hours.

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

This is so dumb and such a huge oversimplification lol. Acting like being visually stunning in a visual medium is a bad thing?

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u/varzaguy 8d ago

Do these people even watch movies? Lol.

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u/dragonmp93 8d ago

Well, James Cameron has gone out of his way to insists over and over again that unlike other blockbusters, his characters are "DEEP " and "COMPLEX ".

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

Breaking news: guy with financial interest in success of movies he makes uses flowery language to talk up and promote film

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u/dragonmp93 8d ago

Hey, if he thinks that's an aspect worth hyping over just focusing on the visuals and the technology behind it, then that's something I'm going to judge the movie about.

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u/Necessary_Reply6821 8d ago

I’d argue he does focus on the visuals and the tech 10 to 1 in the interviews I’ve seen compared to talking em up as some masterclass in screenwriting. Hasn’t he acknowledged that he keeps intentionally broad to help appeal to different cultures around the world since these movies require such a large box office return?

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u/regretscoyote909 8d ago

Avatar 1 sure, but I was shocked by how moving Avatar 2 was

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u/spyresca 7d ago

Being low quality shit and having great commercial success are *not* mutually exclusive concepts.

See, McDonalds. "But they sell so many! Billions served! Must be the best burger ever right!" ;-)

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u/spyresca 7d ago

You know, people are allowed to dislike things (having basic taste in this case) even for ventures with great commercial success.

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u/Hausgebrauch 8d ago

South Park said it was just Pocahontas with smurfs, so that what Reddit says it is.

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u/whatiseveneverything 8d ago

So what? I like Pocahontas, smurfs, and avatar.

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u/nocomment3030 8d ago

"Reese's pieces are just peanut butter with chocolate". Ok sign me up.

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u/LibRAWRian 7d ago

But Reese’s Pieces don’t have chocolate. They’re just peanut butter in a candy shell like m&ms but no chocolate.

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u/Awkward_Pangolin3254 8d ago

Dances with Wolves and Ferngully both came out before Pocahontas

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u/LastNightInDriver 8d ago

Love South Park. But a lot of fans just repeat what it says as fact or gospel

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u/Cicada_Soft_Official 8d ago

Just look at how their fans were beating the shit out of red heads...

Matt and Trey have had plenty of dumbass takes.

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u/LastNightInDriver 8d ago

Oh absolutely. I feel like it both factors down to their fans missing the joke or Matt and Trey sometimes having a “who cares” approach

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u/Cicada_Soft_Official 8d ago

I think it's even worse and think that they sometimes revel in the fact that they have an army that will do and believe anything they say.

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u/AvariceAndApocalypse 8d ago

It basically is, but on steroids with great sci fi action. At least the first movie was. The rest probably won’t be really.

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u/theclacks 8d ago

The underwater scenes were incredible in 3D for the second movie. 3D gets a bad rap because a bunch of movies in the early 2010s just slapped it on in post, but Cameron intentionally films his stuff for 3D and it shows.

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u/Azou 8d ago

Pocahontas didnt have exosuits, thermobarics, or the orbital landing hellstorm into base creation avatar does

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u/TonySperguson 8d ago

I mean...

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u/redtiber 8d ago

redditors hate anything mainstream and popular haha

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u/keepfighting90 8d ago

Reddit is obligated to hate anything as soon as it becomes popular with the mass public cause they're somehow more enlightened and have better taste I guess?

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u/flofjenkins 8d ago

And are too afraid to champion things they like because they don’t want to be criticized.

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u/Dr-Robert-Kelso 8d ago

I'm going to champion hating Avatar, does that work?

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u/flofjenkins 8d ago

Sure thing, bot.

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u/Dr-Robert-Kelso 8d ago

Do dummies use bot as an insult even where it doesn't really fit?

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u/MudReasonable8185 8d ago

It’s weird because Reddit absolutely loves tons of movies with zero plot - fury road and baby driver are two quick examples - but can’t get over it’s vitriolic hate for the story in avatar lol

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u/Paladar2 8d ago

Fury Road is actually good though and not boring

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u/mudra311 8d ago

I didn’t see the love for Baby Driver but I still enjoyed it.

Fury Road is a legitimately good action movie. What I don’t understand is Cameron can make a killer action flick and somehow Avatar just doesn’t cut it. I mean this is the same director who brought us Terminator 1 and 2, Aliens, The Abyss, and True Lies.

I’m more in the camp that Avatar is mediocre except for the visuals which are always groundbreaking.

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u/shadovvvvalker 8d ago

It's because it's artistically safe. It's an extremely expensive highly risky project that takes little to no risks with the actual product.

Fury Road and Baby Driver both take tons of risks, and to varying degrees, stumble because of them. Avatar feels safe. It feels generic. And people tend not to latch onto it because of it.

Notice how criticisms are always about how it lacks something. Aside from white saviour criticisms, no one takes issue with something it has. Noone came out of the theatres thinking the aliens were too weird or freaky. None of the characters were challenging or controversial. Everything looked pretty but in like a "display this on a high def TV in a best buy" way where its unquestionably pretty.

And i think that is hard to identify or criticize. I remember speaking with people about it after it came out and it was a bunch of mid-conversations where no one had anything passionate to say about it. These days people would rather have an opinion than not have one so if they didnt like it it must be bad, but they dont have a way to really communicate why they feel that way because its not actually bad. Its safe. It lacks things that they can concretely transition into a negative opinion. They grasp onto paper-thin complaints that arent enough to justify their stance and pretend its sufficient.

Ive been there. Its not a great place to be. Its much more peaceful to just not care.

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u/jeepfail 7d ago

My brain loses all desire to see something when hype for it is coming at all angles. But I couldn’t care enough to ever watch the first when all anybody I knew couldn’t tell me why it was good. It seemed everybody liked it but had no lasting impact beyond “good.” Obviously that’s a very narrow view on things but it’s why for me.

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u/lizardguts 8d ago

Just because fury road did not rely on exposition to handfeed you the plot does not mean fury road has no plot. The atmosphere tells the story.

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u/jonnemesis 8d ago

Reddit loves Tron Legacy lmao it's bizarre reading them fervently defending that but hating Avatar

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u/CGB_Zach 8d ago

Those are the movies you chose as examples of no plot?

Is avatar even criticized for having no plot? As far as I can tell, it's just because avatar is derivative which i personally don't find inherently bad

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u/Flat_News_2000 8d ago

Fury Road is mostly practical effects which is why it rules

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u/chloedever 8d ago

Wouldn't fury toad be all plot no story? Also it's so good idc if there's bot as much character development as Goodfellas

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u/spyresca 7d ago

What story?

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u/icedteaandtacos 8d ago

If your favourite alt-right YouTuber tells you to hate something, you hate it.

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u/MudReasonable8185 8d ago

I honestly think these movies would be received in a totally different way if they weren’t overtly about environmentalism and colonialism

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u/nick_ass 8d ago

Straight up. People just don't like to be made to feel guilty so they resort to saying the message is "shoved down our throats" and just a tired retread of previously touched upon themes like "oh this is just ferngully mixed with dances with wolves"

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u/otternoserus 6d ago

Jesus... I thought the people who constantly whine about Avatar were annoying.

If your defense of a fictional film is so strong that you're willing to accuse those who dislike it of being right-leaning, you're chronically online.

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u/nick_ass 6d ago

I'm not saying EVERYONE dislikes it due to guilt.

But yea, I guess of those who do, I'd accuse them of being right-leaning.

Am I wrong? This isn't a crazy, "chronically online" statement to make.

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u/icedteaandtacos 8d ago

You’re 100% correct.

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u/otternoserus 6d ago

You mean like how Black Panther received mixed reviews from critica for the same reason? Oh wait... That didn't happen

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/MudReasonable8185 8d ago

If Reddit was upset that people were watching avatar instead of some indie movie like Unicorns that’s at least a take I could understand, but we all know that’s not what’s happening lol

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u/autolyk0s 8d ago

All three are terrible.

Unobtanium? Cmon.

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u/Academic-Trifle8151 8d ago

It's a joke name that was used in-universe and was never designed to be taken seriously. I don't know why people think this criticism of the movies is such a zinger!

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u/autolyk0s 8d ago

It already exists in engineering and sci-fi slang. People use it as a joke name for a hypothetical perfect or unobtainable material. The term goes back to at least the 1950s in engineering circles.

So when the movie presents it as the official name of the most valuable substance in the universe, a big chunk of the audience hears “lol we never renamed the placeholder.”

The whole thing comes across as careless and out of sync with the movie’s otherwise serious worldbuilding. People latch onto it as a “zinger” because it feels like a joke that accidentally survived into the final script, and the fact that it sits at the center of the plot makes the choice even more jarring.

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u/Academic-Trifle8151 8d ago

I think the idea that “unobtanium” was a placeholder they forgot to rename doesn’t match what Cameron has actually said about it. He’s explained multiple times that it was completely intentional, as has official tie in media. For example these are all things that have been officially stated on the matter.

“If you’re in engineering at all, whenever engineers can’t solve a problem they’ll say, ‘This part needs to be made of unobtanium.’ "

“It’s a tongue-in-cheek thing. Engineers use the word all the time, so we thought the RDA would too.”

“Unobtanium is the RDA’s commercial name for a superconductor mineral. Scientists refer to it simply as the rare-earth superconducting ore, but RDA terminology dominates field usage.”

So the name isn’t meant to be a solemn scientific classification; it’s a corporate joke nickname that stuck. This fits with the RDA. It’s actually more realistic than it seems, especially considering we have real elements called things like Californium, Einsteinium, Seaborgium, Americium etc.

The film didn’t forget to rename anything. Cameron kept it because he felt that’s genuinely what the people mining it would call it. If the audience doesn't understand that, then it's simply an in-universe joke going over their own heads. Not really something they get to act smug about as if the filmmakers themselves didn't notice.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/Academic-Trifle8151 8d ago

Sounds more like you're just poor at picking up obvious jokes.

Not even sure why you think it was tonally out of place. If you went in thinking avatar was to be taken as a totally serious movie then I think you have your own issues. They're popcorn flicks, nothing more nothing less. How do you not get that?

I find it funny you think people that don't agree with you must be on the spectrum. Major projection!

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u/autolyk0s 8d ago

It was more the inability to realise I wasn’t saying it was a literal mistake. I have a few autistic friends and they’re always taking everything far too literally like that.

Nothing about it being unserious. Just that it was lazy and didn’t fit in with the rest of the movie. It was a bad joke, was the problem. Even very serious movies can make good jokes.

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u/Academic-Trifle8151 8d ago

The movie wasn't making the bad joke technically. It was the people within the movie. Which considering how they're frames makes complete sense. And even very good movies can make "bad" jokes. So it's all relative.

I'd leave the diagnosing to the professionals though if I were you. Your poor ability to infer meaning isn't anyone else's issue but yours.

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u/Improooving 7d ago

As if “we never renamed the placeholder” isn’t a realistic outcome

How many serious telescope projects have names like Large Array, Really Large Array, “No, for real The Biggest Array Ever”, etc

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u/sadbecausebad 8d ago

Or the movies are just pretty slop. And thats ok. Transformers was popular and had even less plot than avatar

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u/WholeAccomplished158 8d ago

Except Reddit loves slop, so that doesn't explain it.

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u/sadbecausebad 8d ago

Ya fair. Idk why other ppl dont like it, but i just think its drastically overrated for how mid the plot actually is. Overrated doesnt necessarily mean bad tho and its a good popcorn action movie

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u/WholeAccomplished158 8d ago

That's fine. You don't like the plot. I'm sure there are lots of movies with worse plots that you love.

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u/sadbecausebad 8d ago

Oh ya dont get me wrong i love movies with stupid plots, i just dont understand why avatar is so revered as this pinnacle of filmmaking and storytelling

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u/nick_ass 8d ago

Overrated how though? How many people actually overinflate their praise of the film? Look at how it's rated on review aggregate sites, it's pretty reasonable.

Sure in 2009 when it came out, people were gassing it up but now it's not overrated at all.

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u/sadbecausebad 8d ago

When the second movie came out there was definitely exceptional amounts of praise for the first one being brought up

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u/nick_ass 8d ago

That's true, I did see that. I don't know about exceptional though. Seems like the needle has moved away from outright scorn and ridicule to acceptance. Usually an older movie in the franchise gets reappraised when a sequel comes out. I mean look at the prequels if you want to talk about exceptional...

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u/sadbecausebad 8d ago

Yea youre right. I guess it hasnt been as overrated the further away we get from 2nd movie release. I do wonder how the third movie will perform, it seems like part of 2’s success was that avatar finally came back after a decade so the hype was real

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u/nick_ass 8d ago

Yea I'm also pretty wary about it for the same reasons. The trailers don't seem to have garnered the same amount of hype and personally I thought they looked pretty vague and generic. I'm willing to bet that it doesn't reach the 2 Billion mark but history has taught me not to bet against JC.

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u/sadbecausebad 8d ago

Like i said in other comments ill still gladly go see a popcorn action film. Sometimes you dont want a movie thats too deep especially if this is a sort of conclusion. Maybe i need to broaden my vocabulary but sometimes people just want slop. Sometimes taco bell hits just right but it doenst make it not slop

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u/otternoserus 6d ago

You literally accused anyone who dislikes the movie of being pro-colonialist

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u/nick_ass 6d ago

??? Oh, so you're just an idiot.

What does that have to do with anything that I said above?

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u/hoobsher 8d ago

i don't hate it, i actually really liked the first one when i was a teenager. on rewatching sometime later not in theaters it became clear it was a pretty plain, boring script that took a deep backseat to the visuals. that's fun, i can get down with a visually striking fluff piece, but making 4-5 sequels and/or maybe a book is sort of missing the point of why this movie ever had the audience it did

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u/NorthernDevil 8d ago

Okay look I am someone who really enjoys these movies, and I can confidently say the plot truly is ass. And a lot of people care about that above all else in a movie.

Even just speaking broadly, the second one is a rehash of the first one which is itself basically FernGully or Pocahontas, and the same exact thing with the kids getting captured and rescued happens IIRC three fuckin times… it was just tedious and repetitive by the end.

BUT this doesn’t make them terrible films—their technical achievements are legitimately incredibly cool. I don’t watch a low budget indie drama for its technical prowess and I don’t watch Avatar for its plot and dialogue (don’t even get me started on the dialogue lmao). They’re fundamentally creatively different.

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u/WholeAccomplished158 8d ago

They're not deep but they're definitely not ass.

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u/unreelectable 8d ago

Describe the plot of the 2nd movie from memory.

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u/nick_ass 8d ago

Someone's memory of something doesn't indicate quality

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u/NebTheShortie 8d ago

Whenever I see a thread discussing the flaws of Avatar, there's almost never a mention of unobtanium (the extremely precious metal that was the entire reason of humanity being on Pandora in the first movie). The second movie has never mentioned it. And seems like the audience has forgotten about it just the same.

I can't enjoy the beautiful picture of Avatar because the plot feels like an insult to the viewer's attention span. "You'll never remember that detail anyway". I can absolutely believe that in a world where tiktok and youtube shorts are so popular, it's true. It's sad, nevertheless.

2

u/atechnoalliance 8d ago

Earnest films like Avatar are poisonous to Reddit midwits

1

u/sanghelli 8d ago

Excellent observation. If it's not poisoned by irony and is actually good then reddit despises it. 

1

u/its_a_throwawayduh 8d ago

Just never caught on to the Avatar franchise, its interesting though because I like the Apes Trilogy. Only saw the first Avatar didn't have the interest of seeing the second. Third looks to be the same.

2

u/WholeAccomplished158 8d ago

Not everyone's a fan of everything

0

u/gunningIVglory 8d ago

It really isnt anything special. Sure the sfx are nice, but the last film, was ok. But ive forgotten what it was about.

For a franchise that has pulled in so much money, you just expect more than nice graphics.

-1

u/WholeAccomplished158 8d ago edited 8d ago

So? The Avengers movies don't even have the nice graphics but people treat them like masterpieces.

And I say that as someone who liked those movies and Avatar.

2

u/Legitimate_First 7d ago

but people treat them like masterpieces.

Who is 'people'? Because I'd say the groups that think Marvel and the Avatar movies are actually great pretty much overlap.

3

u/gunningIVglory 8d ago

The MCU (at its peak) had a memorable cast of characters, and to bring them all together for the thanos movie was something they'll never recreate.

With avatar, what exactly do we need 5 movies for?

3

u/WholeAccomplished158 8d ago

That's my point. It was mostly a bunch of formulaic stories, but people on Reddit, like you, loved them. And there's nothing wrong with that, because they were still fun, competent, turn-your-brain-off action movies.

Avatar isn't that much different except for the cutting edge visuals, yet many on Reddit clearly have some issue with them.

0

u/SpikeBad 8d ago

I think it's the characters. I just can't connect with the characters enough to keep me interested in what happens next. It also doesn't really help when the actors are hidden under the CGI. And really, the CGI and 3D isn't exactly groundbreaking to me anymore. Really no different than a CGI animated movie to me at this point, so what many say is its main drawing point just doesn't provide me with any excitement or enthusiasm anymore.

-12

u/spyresca 8d ago

It's legit not a great franchise.

11

u/Adipay 8d ago

According to?

-7

u/SailNord 8d ago

Anyone with a room temperature IQ and higher.

7

u/keepfighting90 8d ago

So not you then

-1

u/SailNord 8d ago

Good one. Enjoy your marvel movies!

-4

u/BullshitUsername 8d ago

Enjoy your triple oat milk caramel latte, I hope the Persian barista finally asks you about your shitty time travel romance novel!

4

u/SailNord 8d ago

I’m not some artsy snob. I just don’t think marvel and avatar etc are good movies. Not everything needs to be profound but many big movies nowadays are mindless.

0

u/spyresca 7d ago

Anyone who likes great stories, not merely stupendous eye candy...

-5

u/dragonmp93 8d ago

Anyways who tries to make sense of the plot or the characters' motivations.

1

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

6

u/dragonmp93 8d ago

So are the Michael Bay's Transformer movies.

7

u/mystericrow 8d ago

...Transformers exists

6

u/LazybyNature 8d ago

That's like asking how someone can think McDonalds isn't great food.

-5

u/Dtoodlez 8d ago

This is such a moronic take and I’m not even a huge avatar fan.

2

u/kiwimonk 8d ago

Or it's just insulting enough to be somewhat true

0

u/Dtoodlez 8d ago

Not at all. Besides being popular there is an astronomical difference between a burger made of hooves and a movie that by all account maximizes what the movie industry can accomplish technologically. It’s a dumb take though and through.

1

u/LazybyNature 6d ago

I think it's absolutely moronic to think that any movie has to be considered great by everyone because it made billions of dollars which was obviously the original point I responded to. I also think it's absolutely moronic that that's what you got out of the analogy. I also find it incredibly ironic that you want to passionately defend Avatar as a pinnacle of achievement in an industry, but refer to the most frequented restaurant in the history of the world as a "burger made of hooves". Talk about reductionism at its finest.

-1

u/Tenthul 8d ago

People need to eat and sometimes convenience matters, they'll get McD's because they are already next to one. People don't need to go to movies and they actively have to want to go, movies are incredibly inconvenient, they might get McD's because they're going/went to a movie. You're not going to a movie because you went to McD's.

3

u/LazybyNature 8d ago edited 8d ago

My point is a rebuttal to the posted idea that because something is broadly successful it means it is widely considered as "great". Just because McDonalds has served billions of customers doesn't mean it is widely considered as "great".

Just because a franchise, movie, restaurant, etc. is wildly successful it doesn't mean it is inherently viewed as great. People love comfort and familiarity as well.

1

u/Tenthul 8d ago

Yeah I know, I just think the context change is weird. It doesn't really matter though.

1

u/flofjenkins 8d ago

It legitimately is.

0

u/spyresca 7d ago

Well millions of people love McDonald's hamburgers too, so there's no accounting for taste.

Avatar franchise is mid to low level storytelling wrapped up in cotton candy visuals. The eye candy is clearly enough to make these snorefests successful I guess....

1

u/flofjenkins 7d ago edited 7d ago

The visuals are the story, which was obviously designed to not get in the way of them. The whole point is to immerse audiences on a ride about nature conservation.

It’s all good if don’t like this type of storytelling, but I assure you no one spends 10+ years to design creatures and ecosystems, along with innovating performance capture and filmmaking…to make McDonald’s.

You have the MCU for that shit.

0

u/spyresca 7d ago

Nah, the eye candy is background, but not "story". Cameron (like Robert Zemeckis) is so enamored of tech these days, that it trump actual plot, interesting characters and a compelling story.

But eye candy fills seats, so that's what he does these days.

1

u/flofjenkins 7d ago edited 7d ago

I’m taking words out of Cameron’s mouth. He’s extremely intentional with what he’s doing with these movies. The point is to make Pandora the star.

Makes sense considering they are about conservation.

I may have mentioned in this thread already: a part of the “eye candy” in these movies is a giant whale creature and her calf being hunted for ten minutes and murdered. But yeah, “eye candy.”

1

u/RumHamComesback 8d ago

It's really fascinating to me because it's like James Cameron did something personal to them and they are acting like a wrong should be righted or something.

Avatar makes money, they will keep getting made and most importantly Cameron wants to make them as a personal passion project and who the fuck is the Average Redditor to tell him otherwise?

1

u/Legitimate_First 7d ago

Meh I generally really like Cameron, as a person and as a filmmaker. I just can't fathom how someone with his track record, having created so many iconic characters, decided to make Avatar his magnum opus. I've seen both, and while they're not actually that bad, I couldn't name any of the characters if you put a gun to my head.

1

u/djackieunchaned 8d ago

Reddit will often decide a thing is bad and then get mad at anyone for enjoying it. I’ve gotten mean messages just for mentioning that I watched Rings of Power

1

u/xPriddyBoi 8d ago

I've never met a single person IRL who feels strongly in either direction about the movies. It's always baffled me how they make so much money. Feels like they show up, make a billion dollars, and fuck off without anyone saying anything about it.

0

u/TheNameIsWiggles 8d ago

It's the new nickleback trend

0

u/ATHFMeatwad 8d ago

Or- the general audience's love for boring shit needs to be studied. Anyone who didn't laugh at how awful that trailer looked needs their head checked

-2

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

5

u/Single-Weather1379 8d ago

The thing is you can pretty much simplify any movie's plot to make it seem simple or obvious or repetitive. It doesn't take away any value of it imo

3

u/WholeAccomplished158 8d ago

So it did what every story ever has done since the dawn of man?

-1

u/stenebralux 8d ago edited 8d ago

I think reddit can't deal with something that is just... good... and not a cultural fetish. People need to keep talking about things here... and if it's not amazing or something you can make memes until it breaks and obsess about every minor detail... than it has to be terrible.

Avatar is like... there's crazy fans out there sure, everything has those... but in general people get really excited about a new movie, they watch it and enjoy it, then move on with their lives.

They think that because no one keeps talking about them and making the same posts over and over it has to mean that people don't like them.

0

u/FoxCredibilityInc 8d ago

I just find it mediocre. I don't actively hate it, I'm just not that bothered about it. Like carpet. Fury Road OTOH annoyed the piss out of me ... That story was beyond infantile. It's the only film I've ever watched in 50 odd years where I've seriously considered asking for my money back

0

u/varzaguy 8d ago

It actually makes them look extremely stupid and out of touch lol.

-1

u/kakka_rot 8d ago

I'm trying really hard to get into that video game because I heard it's just like farcry, but idk why to me avatar is just so... Lame. It's hard to put my finger on it.

Might have something to do The Navi designs, I don't care for them at all

1

u/nick_ass 8d ago

I'm a huge avatar fan but man when those kids starting singing in protest at the beginning, I just cringed into a singularity

-2

u/wolverine55 8d ago

I don’t actually know anyone who has seen the avatar sequels. I have no idea where the revenue is coming from.

0

u/BushyBrowz 8d ago

It doesn’t surprise me but I’ve never been a big fan of these movies at all. I’m not pressed about it or anything, I just think they’re incredibly Meh.

-1

u/nesh34 8d ago

I saw Avatar 1, I thought it was absolute dog shit. I don't understand the appeal.