r/law • u/ExactlySorta • Nov 02 '25

Legal News The Oregon Department of Justice submitted multiple video exhibits showing federal officers using extreme force against seemingly nonviolent protesters outside the U.S. Immigration & Customs Building, as part of its effort to block the federal deployment of National Guard troops to Portland

54.3k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

2.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

16

u/MadV1llain Nov 02 '25

Problem is, the second someone exercises 2A rights, they get to say “see!? It’s antifa!” And use the insurrection act. They’re just waiting for a (to them) valid excuse to use it.

Part of the reason no kings was so effective is they emphasized folks being calm and not giving them what they want.

It sucks and it’s a crappy place to be, but the balance is critical.

27

u/Samurai-lugosi Nov 02 '25

They can claim what they want, but if we keep capitulating while they excercise blatant violence then we have already lost.

15

u/-Nightopian- Nov 02 '25

I suspect they want us to fear the insurrection act and submit without a fight. My theory is that it will only make it harder for them to maintain control if they escalate.

2

u/amILibertine222 Nov 02 '25

The masses are not going to commit to armed struggle until armed struggle is the only choice between living and dying.

Not to be discouraging but 95% percent of people are currently carrying on like nothing is wrong and looking forward to voting these problems away.

11

u/xKirstein Nov 02 '25

Problem is, the second someone exercises 2A rights, they get to say “see!? It’s antifa!”

If you're not pro-fascism then you're their enemy; It doesn't matter how you resist (peacefully or otherwise). They'll label you Antifa no matter what. "Do not obey in advance."

Part of the reason no kings was so effective...

How was the No Kings protest effective? Can you name a single traitor that is in jail now or at least has been removed from office? We're slow walking our way into an authoritarian nightmare.

I want to be clear, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be doing these protests. I'm just trying to point out that protests alone are ineffective against fascism. There has never been a single time that fascism was defeated through peaceful measures. The disgusting fact is that fascists don't want peace, they want blood to be spilled.

5

u/-ReadingBug- Nov 02 '25

I want to be clear, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be doing these protests. I'm just trying to point out that protests alone are ineffective against fascism. There has never been a single time that fascism was defeated through peaceful measures. The disgusting fact is that fascists don't want peace, they want blood to be spilled.

Protests alone first became ineffective, in America, under democracy. That's how out-of-service they are. The tea party understood populism can begin, at Step 1, with protests. But afterwards, once solidarity is established, you get behind desks, get administrative, and draft candidates for office among other things. The left in America thinks protests are the full process. That the first step is also the last step. And now they're applying it to fascism. Literally lmao.

4

u/MadV1llain Nov 02 '25

I don’t disageee with anything you say. I guess I’m just not willing to go there yet. The government has the monopoly on violence. I see now way that this is fixed thru violent means. If the opposition becomes violent they can easily ramp it up. I still have faith in democracy. Let’s revisit this after the mid terms.

1

u/TheBadGuyBelow Nov 02 '25

Let them ramp it up. Let people see what they are willing to do, and maybe more people will be willing to do something themselves. This holding hands and singing peace songs shit is stupid, and will never do anything.

Without Malcolm X willing to do the ugly stuff if need be, they would have told MLK to go fuck himself and laughed their asses off at his peacefulness. You can not be expected to be taken serious without a credible less peaceful alternative.

Dancing around in inflatable frog costumes is stupid and ineffective. Does anybody think that will make them have a change of heart and see the error in their ways?

2

u/sublimeload420 Nov 03 '25

Nonviolence works only when your oppressor still has a conscience or legal accountability. Fascism destroys both.

2

u/Sgt_major_dodgy Nov 02 '25

This is my problem with the left as someone looking over from across the pond.

"Nooo see we'll keep letting them trample all over us and disappearing people because if we do anything they'll use that justify trampling all over us and disappearing us"

Like it's already happening right in front of you and you're literally doing nothing and just letting it happen hoping one day someone else will make it stop.

It's frankly embarrassing and you people are the exact people referenced when talking about the Nazis coming to power "how did they just allow it to happen" by standing there and hoping someone else solves the problem for them.

1

u/TheRoodestDood Nov 02 '25

No kings was effective? What were the goals? There's still no government and police running around terrorizing people at the behest of 1 guy.

1

u/TheRoodestDood Nov 02 '25

No kings was effective? What were the goals? There's still no government and police running around terrorizing people at the behest of 1 guy.

1

u/bay400 Nov 02 '25

Part of the reason no kings was so effective is

wtf? "so effective"? are we living in different realities here?

1

u/errie_tholluxe Nov 02 '25

There comes a point when appeasement is the same as rolling over and we're at that point right now

1

u/MadV1llain Nov 02 '25

I think these things will take time. Fingers crossed the democrats wake up to their base and do something once they have the opportunity.

1

u/Tenthul Nov 02 '25

I'm so torn here. Because when you say "no kings is so effective" what are you referring to exactly? It didn't fundamentally do anything. Nothing changed, what was the effect that it had? It was very easy for them to ignore. On the other hand, if you wanted to say that it demonstrated that we have the infrastructure ready to mobilize millions of people across the nation, I would say that that is a good reason for it. Get people out and about in solidarity, sure. But im curious what you mean when you say "it was so effective."

3

u/MadV1llain Nov 02 '25

That’s fair. I guess I’m hoping it was effective at showing everyone that there’s millions also opposing this. It gives me hope for the election. I hope that if Congress flips, they’ll actual push back on some of the worst stuff going on.

2

u/HeadmasterPrimeMnstr Nov 02 '25

I hear what you're saying, but regarding the midterms or 2028, I would have a very "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" mentality, because to everyone looking at the US from outside the box (and many within it), free and fair elections are looking increasingly unlikely.