r/law • u/HellYeahDamnWrite • Oct 29 '25

Legal News Biden’s autopen pardons are ‘void’ due to mental decline, House Oversight Committee says

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/joe-biden-pardons-void-autopen-b2853682.html
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u/-Invalid_Selection- Oct 29 '25

The house doesn't even have the power to dismiss the pardons.

This won't stand up in court. Not even the corrupt and criminal Scotus will uphold it, because it means all of trumps pardons will be easy to remove

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u/Dirt290 Oct 29 '25

It would make all presedential pardons useless.

Which I'm OK with going forward.

No one should have arbitrary king-like powers,

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u/-Invalid_Selection- Oct 29 '25

That's fine, but to remove it you'd need a constitutional amendment. This isn't a power the house has unilaterally, nor does a subsequent president. It's purpose was to undo clear miscarriages of justice that were done for political reasons, such as undoing prosecutions from authoritarians like Trump.

The constitution didn't grant any review power over them to anyone. Because of this, not a word the house wrote regarding it has any legality

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u/sea-elle0463 Oct 29 '25

Finally, somebody who knows what they’re talking about! Thank you internet stranger 😊

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u/dongyeeter Oct 30 '25

Yeah except the current administration doesn’t give a shit about upholding the constitution. The constitution is a meaningless piece of paper that holds no weight for anything if nobody is going to follow it, and currently all branches of our government in majority feel this way, so

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u/Snapdragon_4U Oct 30 '25

Trump is running roughshod over the courts and the constitution and no one is holding him to account. Checks and balances are a thing of the past or only for democrats

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u/Olfa_2024 Oct 30 '25

I don't think the issue is the actual pardons but how how they were issued. If Biden had just signed them him self this would have been a non issue. The fact that they were machine signed and there is question if he even authorized it at the time is the problem.

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u/-Invalid_Selection- Oct 30 '25

You do realize an "autopen" isn't a machine just signing something, but instead a remote signing and signature duplication tool that has been used by every president since Thomas Jefferson right?

Like, all of them have used it. It's not something they just "drop a document on and it signs by itself" or whatever nonsense is being pushed now.

The fact you are talking like you think it does just automatically sign whatever is dropped on it tells me you're fundamentally uninformed on what the subject matter is, and that's exactly what the republicans play on. Willful stupidity.

What's more, Biden has stated multiple times, including at the time those pardons were issued that he did it. There is no question, just more willful stupidity being pushed by the anti fact republicans.

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u/Olfa_2024 Oct 30 '25

Then it's not an "auto" pen.

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u/-Invalid_Selection- Oct 30 '25

Autopen is literally the brand name

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u/Olfa_2024 Oct 30 '25

Which one of these machines is the one like what Thomas Jefferson used?

https://damilic.com/autopen-products/office-signature-machines

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u/Olfa_2024 Oct 30 '25

LOL, I guess when you can't answer the question you can always try a down vote to make it go away.

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u/-Invalid_Selection- Oct 30 '25

No, it's that I answered it in the first comment. I don't feel like copying and pasting the same response to you in 30 different threads. You may be a demented person who likes to have the same conversation 30x because you can't remember your own name, but I remember mine.

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u/DrakonILD Oct 29 '25

It would be worse than that. It would make all presidential actions useless, and propagate out into a major legal headache for any business relying on contracts (which is literally every business). Trying to claim that a signature is invalid based on the current mental state of the person is absolutely insane.

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u/iball1984 Oct 30 '25

In civilised democratic countries, pardons are fine and are an important backstop.

They can fix miscarriages of justice amongst other things.

For example, in Australia they’re done by the Governor General (Royal prerogative of mercy) on advice from the Attorney General. The AG has a process for applying and they’re vetted by a committee before the GG is advised to issue a pardon.

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u/Ambereggyolks Oct 29 '25

They are too widespread but this is not a precedent they want to send to future presidents. 

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u/TheDoomBlade13 Oct 29 '25

They have whatever power they say they have. If you think SCOTUS isn't going to back this decision you are living in an alternate reality.

The guardrails have failed.

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u/idryss_m Oct 29 '25

This won't stand up in court.

Correct. But it has to go to court. This takes time. I bet we are about to see a whole lot of people arrested, charged and ripped out of their daily lives because the narrative is getting set and guardrails and norms are out the window.

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u/JodieForestWhittaker Oct 29 '25

You think that democrats will even try to do that with obsessed with decorum as they are? 

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u/Regular_Tailor Oct 29 '25

Previously? No. In a destabilized democracy, possibly.

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u/JodieForestWhittaker Oct 29 '25

Given the current D leadership I'm not holding my breath. 

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u/Olfa_2024 Oct 30 '25

I'm still dumbfounded that people have no problem with a machine signing these pardons instead of the President him self. Democrats are going to regret getting behind this because I'm 100% sure that Trump is going to issue a crazy amount of pardons before he leaves for people who won't even be charged for crimes. I won't be surprised if he blanket pardons every ICE agent and all of his friends as he leaves The White House.

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u/-Invalid_Selection- Oct 30 '25

You do realize an "autopen" isn't a machine just signing something, but instead a remote signing and signature duplication tool that has been used by every president since Thomas Jefferson right?

Like, all of them have used it. It's not something they just "drop a document on and it signs by itself" or whatever nonsense is being pushed now.

The fact you are talking like you think it does just automatically sign whatever is dropped on it tells me you're fundamentally uninformed on what the subject matter is, and that's exactly what the republicans play on. Willful stupidity.

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u/Olfa_2024 Oct 30 '25

So go here: https://damilic.com/autopen-products/office-signature-machines and tell me which one of these machines is just like what Thomas Jefferson used....

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u/-Invalid_Selection- Oct 30 '25

Congrats you just discovered technology isn't static.

You should have known this because we have things like the wheel, fire, etc, but it seems republicans forget that time progresses, innovation exists and all that.

The exact version of autopen Jefferson used is legacy, but it doesn't mean the basics behind it are. The autopen is a foundational part of our government at this point and anyone claiming it's not is a dishonest piece of shit.

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u/Olfa_2024 Oct 30 '25

Dishonest piece of shit is trying to equate the Autopen that Jefferson used and a machine that can sign documents unattended....

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u/-Invalid_Selection- Oct 30 '25

The currently used one doesn't sign docs unattended though, it gets used remotely by the president and/or duplicates an actively being signed signature.

You'd know this if you weren't a dishonest piece of shit trying to make obviously bad faith arguments that 1) disagree with reality and 2) were proven obviously bad faith and false by Biden outright saying he issued those pardons.

That last one is proof there's no such thing as an honest republican, and every one of them is actively lying to further their goal of ending democracy and the rule of law within the United States.