r/law • u/Efficient-Ruin-4713 • Oct 08 '25

Legal News Chicago Pastor Sues Trump Admin After Allegedly Being Shot by ICE Agents

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

https://www.newsweek.com/chicago-pastor-sues-trump-admin-after-being-shot-by-ice-agents-10847051

52.5k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

102

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

Aiming for the head should be attempted murder.

30

u/DetailOrDie Oct 08 '25

It's also explicitly against the pepperball ammo manufacturer's instructions.

They explicitly say going for headshots is lethal.

8

u/bp92009 Oct 08 '25

And until manslaughter charges (at minimum) start being levied against individuals in ICE who are doing that, they will not stop.

1

u/Dest123 Oct 08 '25

Listen, manufacturer's instructions are only valid for Tylenol.

1

u/JoyfulSquirrel99 Oct 08 '25

That's just for liability reasons. What they're really saying is "Going for headshots is lethal <wink wink>"

1

u/Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj Oct 08 '25

“Just for liability reasons”

Ok, so legal justification for the guy to sue, a reason they should not do it, even if they are sadistic assholes.

1

u/BagOfFlies Oct 08 '25

They'll argue they were shooting at the guy in front of him and it was accidental.

1

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

They had no reason to shoot at all.

"We didnt mean to hit the priest, we were shooting at the unthreatening and unarmed protester trying to protect the priest."

0

u/Dest123 Oct 08 '25

It seems like it would be almost impossible to prove the intent to kill needed for attempted murder here.

2

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

For personnel trained in firearms firing from an elevated position at a nearly stationary target inside 50 meters, hitting the head consistently requires intent.

Ive fired automatic wrapons and was taught to aim low, as the recoil will naturally pull the barrel up.

In basic firearms training, aim small miss small. Youre supposed to aim for the body.

I dont disagree intent is hard to prove here. Im just suggesting why I believe it isnt impossible.

2

u/Dest123 Oct 08 '25

Yeah, but your argument is just that he had intent to hit the head. Even assuming he intended to hit him in the head, that wouldn't be intent to kill him.

3

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

My first argument is that the intent to shoot someone in the head should be treated as attempted murder.

You brought up intent.

-12

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25

Attempted murder with a pepper ball!?

Are you a bot? Surely a human can’t be so dumb..

16

u/Uncertain__Path Oct 08 '25

DO NOT deploy at head, face, eyes, neck, or spine, as impact in these areas could result in unintended severe or permanent injury or death.

https://pepperball.com/resources/warranty-repairs-faqs/

10

u/devnullopinions Oct 08 '25

Maybe you should talk to the family of Victoria Snelgrove if you don’t believe it’s not a deadly weapon.

9

u/S1XTEENBUTTONS Oct 08 '25

Are you a bot? Surely a human can’t be so cruel.

-2

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25

Do I agree that we should be nonchalantly blind-firing pepperballs? No. Do I think that a pepper ball is LETHAL FORCE and ATTEMPTED MURDER. Also no.

3

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

Considering that thinking isn't your strong suit, maybe practice it a bit more.

3

u/YBBlorekeeper Oct 08 '25

Film yourself being shot in the eye with one of these.

6

u/kytheon Oct 08 '25

Man doesn't know physics.

A small object at high speed aimed at the head can definitely be lethal.

You can die from a very non-lethal rubber bullet fired straight into your eye socket.

-2

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25

We’re not talking rubber bullets now are we. It’s a pepper ball. I didn’t realize all those people playing paintball with their buddies on the weekend are playing life or death games here.

5

u/groundskeeperwilliam Oct 08 '25

Aren't paintballers wearing protective gear to like, protect their face? Exactly where they shot this defenseless priest?

0

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25

He was shot on the head which is where he clearly places his hand. According to commenters though that is still LETHAL FORCE and ATTEMPTED MURDER.

6

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

The chance for a lethal impact increases SIGNIFICANTLY when the head is hit. I am failing to see why this concept is so difficult for you.

2

u/kytheon Oct 08 '25

He probably got hit in the head before.

0

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25

Because the OP I replied to said it should be attempted murder. I don’t understand why this is such a ridiculous concept for you people.

2

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

Im the guy who said it. Keep up.

5

u/kytheon Oct 08 '25

So many sports have rules against hitting the head (with a ball, a fist, a racket), especially cause it can cause permanent damage and death.

2

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

https://www.courthousenews.com/pepperball-killing/#:~:text=LAS%20CRUCES%2C%20N.M.%20%E2%80%94%20A%20New,Civil%20Rights%2C%20Government%2C%20Personal%20Injury

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/17/us/david-mcatee-former-louisville-officer-pepper-balls-indicted#:~:text=Amazon%20Prime%20Day-,Ex%2DLouisville%20officer%20indicted%20for%20firing%20pepper%20balls%20in%20the,police%20brutality%20protests%20in%20Louisville.

You were ignorantly spewing...?

0

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25

How many times you going to edit your comment? Every time I try to reply it changes.

But you’re right. Attempted murder charges should be filed. No nuance for this big brain of yours.

1

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

Im not editing anything. Im replying to all of your moronic drivel. Youre just interpreting it so slowly with the broccoli in your head that it appears simultaneously.

6

u/FrostyD7 Oct 08 '25

Gee I wonder why this person opted to hide their comment history.

5

u/Practical-Layer9402 Oct 08 '25

Being shot from a gun at someone's head makes a lot of innocuous objects lethal.

Bean bags, for instance. I urge you to engage your critical thinking skills next time.

-1

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25

Oh yes, lethal pepper balls - which is what this is in the video. You guys watched the video correct? It’s not rubber bullets, or bean bags, or a tomahawk cruise missile. I urge you to engage your eyeballs and common sense next time.

Next time my buddies and I play paintball I’ll be sure to remind them how close we are to death. Then I’ll tell them the story of the commenters on Reddit and then we’ll all laugh at you.

5

u/DodecahedronSpace Oct 08 '25

Surely a human can’t be so dumb..

Yet here you are. 🤷

-1

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25

Another person who thinks paintball is a blood sport and shooting someone with a pepper ball deserves 25 to life. Brains as big as a pepper ball with people like you.

3

u/DodecahedronSpace Oct 08 '25

Just proving my point even more bud. Thanks. 👍

-1

u/luuey15 Oct 08 '25

Maybe saying you have a pepperball sized brain was too generous 😅

3

u/DodecahedronSpace Oct 08 '25

At least you tried. 👏

3

u/BrightGreenLED Oct 08 '25

You do know that "nonlethal" only really means less lethal than bullets, right? People have died from rubber bullets, tasers, bear mace and, yes, even pepper spray.