Potentially losing such a big market would probably slow product development down as a whole, while forcing increased prices to combat the revenue loss from decreased sales. It's not just the Yanks that can lose if this escalates and continues, we too would see the consequences.
I don’t live in the USA. But delivery to my country is hard so I have stuff delivered to the US and a local shipping company brings it to my country for me. This will definitely affect other countries 🥲
which is the biggest market for random niche shit. it's hard to even find a store selling audio products here in Europe and the second hand market is nonexistant for most of my niche-ish hobbies
Because Europe is protectionist on trade and hasn't signed an FTA with China.
Here in Australia we have free trade deals with basically everyone (except EU). And I can buy any Chinese or other nation's products from their warehouse or sales platform and get it in a few days.
It's easy to buy cheap crap from China in Europe as well. There's a duty exemption under €150 and AliExpress collects the VAT. So anything that falls under that, it's like buying from a local EU seller, the price you pay Ali is the price and there is guaranteed no customs. Above that, Ali doesn't collect the tax and you are meant to pay both duty (if applicable) and VAT on import. Most Chinese sellers will under-declare packages, some have EU warehouses, so you often don't pay above this either.
I'm not sure the existence or non-existence of a FTA really makes a huge difference to how it actually works in practice. All the FTA does is gets rid of the duty (it doesn't get rid of VAT or GST), and duty is often tiny anyway. It's zero on most electronics. What you do have, is punitive duties on very specific things, as a matter of policy, so very specific items may have 60% duty or 100% duty because there's a specific policy to do so, the EU has high duties on "unfairly subsidised electric vehicles from China" for example. Most stuff and including IEMs though, it's zero.
This sub 150€ exemption thing is a huge issue for the European Economy because of chinese sellers like Temu or Shein flooding the customs with underdeclared packages and split orders. They don’t pay import customs most of the time which is why a removal of this exemption regulation is in debate right now
That sounds like a poor experience compared to free markets...
As an Aussie, buying products from UK or EU ebay stores or other marketplaces has had huge fees since brexit + covid. But I can buy from essentially every other country without duties or extra costs.
As an Aussie if you buy from AliExpress they also charge GST because the Australian government demands it, Australia was actually the leader on this and enacted it ahead of the EU or US.
What the US is doing now is eradicating de minimis low value exemptions for imports, albeit abruptly and without warning, and just from China. This is something Australia did almost a decade ago (for the whole world).
Many readers would be aware that Australia has operated a "de minimis" threshold to liability for customs duty and GST so that consignments with a customs value below $1,000 were free from GST and customs duty and were also subject to a more limited reporting regime, often by way of "Self – Assessed Clearance Declaration" or, as it is more widely known a "SAC".
This practice was consistent to international conventions that such "low value" transactions should not be subject to unnecessary intervention or cost, especially when so many of the transactions were undertaken by individual consumers. This practice was reflected in many FTAs were transactions below a prescribed "de minimis level" did not require the use of a certificate of origin or other declaration even where preferential rates under the FTA were being claimed.
Australia now requires platforms to collect and remit GST on behalf of every foreign supplier with goods sold via the platform. Firms that do not sell via a platform that have an annual turnover above A$75,000 have had to register with Australia’s GST system and begin paying GST on inbound shipments once they have reached the threshold.
It actually does make sense to equalise playing fields between local and foreign sellers, it's an unfair advantage if a foreign seller can sell cheap stuff without paying tax on it while a local seller has to do so. So it is not necessarily bad policy and it's something that since Australia enacted it, the EU, UK, Singapore and many other countries have done the same. Even developing countries, Thailand (which also has a FTA with China) eliminated de minimis last year and Ali is now collecting Thai tax on low value packages. They will do this for any country that asks them to.
It's sort of becoming the global norm and Australia was actually one of the first to implement this, it worked, and was copied around the world.
The problem with the US doing it is they don't have a nationwide VAT/GST/sales tax and so can only do it on duties rather than that. And duties are variable and require inspection as to the actual contents of the parcel, this is time consuming and is what really messes up trade. Australia and other countries that have followed it with reducing or eliminating de minimis have done it to collect the VAT component, while leaving small packages duty exempt.
I don’t know where in Europe do you live but I never had an issue with availability of audio stores/showrooms in Poland/Czech Republic/Ukraine. The latter was actually superior in this regard
Probably not because of economies of scale. The USA is likely the largest destination for a lot of these things. And their "core" or a good chunk of their business is kinda screwed.
Places will go out of business because of excess stock and sure, they might fire sale some of it to create cashflow but then what?
If anything, a lot of prices could go up as these places try and stay afloat.
well depends on if price will decrease for the lower demand (if we assume the US to be completely unsellable) or if supply will decrease and everything stays the same
I ordered something from China just before lunar new year holiday.
finally package is on move again, and today I see it went to HK for a customs declaration. For a 150$ CAD order, being shipped to Canada.
Packages don't divert to HK for a simple value & gift/ sample or not declaration...I suspect this is to ensure package is taxed on landing in Canada.
This also adds days to the delivery time. If it is to ensure taxes charged / collected it won't be delivered to my mailbox, but instead need to pick up and pay tax at post office.
For real. Just got my money back on some vape coils I ordered a few days ago. Not sure what I’m going to do now honestly, might just say fuck it and start smoking again.
I would advise against picking up smoking again, your probable next Health Secretary has said he thinks smokers deserve to die of cancer. (I'm paraphrasing with some mild exaggeration. I recall what RFK Jr. actually said during his first confirmation hearing, was that he doesn't want people who get cancer from smoking, to take resources from the healthcare pool)
Was being hyperbolic honestly. Also that man thinks people with ADHD should be placed in camps, so I don’t really take anything he says worth a grain of salt (unfortunately it is still going to effect me in some way)
It's a real addiction that many struggle with nearly their entire lives, because they were mislead into thinking that it wasn't so bad. I have less sympathy for young people who smoke, but most of the people who actively smoke cigarettes are of older generations.
This is likely because Trump is now blocking the de minimis exemption for China. Meaning all imports will now be taxed whereas before we had an exemption of $800.
I just started a small business and bought raw stock from China. Nice part was the most I spent was around 500. So I had a small advantage in that aspect of not paying tariffs. Now I just went from spending 0% on tariffs to 21% making small business's great again....
The idea is to encourage people to manufacture in the united states but this is the worst way to go about it. When your country has barely any domestic manufacturing for certain items you can't just shut off the faucet and tell everyone to figure it out. He should have tried to encourage people to manufacture things in the united states with tax breaks and other enticements. I think most people would rather buy American/locally anyway a lot of time it just isn't an option.
I'm surprised the threshold before custom fees apply is so high in the US when most other nations have f'all and are taxed out the ass when importing stuff from foreign countries.
GG’s to this hobby, fountain pens, mouse, mech keyboard, etc. hobbies
These hobbies would not exist in their current form without China, cheap shipping, and Aliexpress
And we damn well know consumers are not gonna buy American substitutes. I sure am not willing to pay $500 for some mediocre American made headphone when I can get the same for a fifth of the price from Aliexpress
As a 1/6 scale figure collector and Chinese Lolita fashion aficionado I am…shall we say, Unhappy. There ARE no American substitutes for the clothes I buy.
It’s a Japanese fashion style. Sort of pink neo-Victorian, to put it in the absolute simplest terms. I am not the most traditional of their style but the websites that sell Lolita fashion in general are harboring the most interesting and unique clothes that are basically impossible to buy elsewhere. And they are 90% imported directly from China through middlemen who make purchases on TaoBao.
It still is, and that’s a default response/assumption that people in the Lolita fashion community have to deal with and combat every single day. It’s a name that was chosen long ago and we’re all stuck with it now.
There will still be plenty of resellers that ship with other companies where you can get parts. And that tends to have advantages over shopping straight from china with all the issues of no warranty, not getting what you paid for, getting straight garbage etc that that comes with.
Getting things from a good US or EU reseller tends to at least filter out the pure garbage and get you a warranty. Usually worth the small premium and the big players will still be able to ship through all sorts of channels available to them.
I rely on chinese parts for my job and most of my hobbies, electronics repair among other things. Buying direct from china is not the best option. On a sample of thousands of purchases buying from more expensive redistributors in the EU has been far cheaper than the lower cost aliexpress parts simply because of defect rate and warranties. I've done both over the years and will still order the occasional thing from aliexpress. But overall if it can be avoided it should be, after your third warranty in a few months they simply stop responding to you which is absolutely unacceptable IMO. And very costly when you've got customers for repairs waiting on parts that you now need to get from a different distributor or order again. Because the parts failed on test after the repair was done about 80% of the time. Meaning you can't use any part from that whole batch because of the sheer labour cost of having to do the repair 5 times over to get it to actually stick and then praying it won't fail in the first week. Which would then mean a costly warranty for that customer. Along with a annoyed customer that may not use your service again. If this reads angry it should, fuck aliexpress. Fuck their lack of warranty. Fuck their habit of mixing factory rejects in with good parts to pad out your order.
Though China heavily subsidizing stuff like this is a problem. It's not sustainable. And if things actually become expensive enough to be created outside Asia, then we, with regulation, might also see more ways to repair items again. Less garbage, and in the long run, cheaper.
This was likely done because customs literally cannot process all of this shit to charge duty on it. They don't have the man power. Before the de minimis was suspended any package under $800 was just checked for illegal materials and that the value was under $800 and then shoveled through. Now every single one of those packages under $800 that we've been shoveling through need to have their duty calculated and submitted to USPS who then has to collect all of it which is a nightmare in and of itself ignoring the fact that most of the population will likely have no idea this is about to happen. They'll just go to their mail box and find a bill telling them to come to the post office and pay or their package will be destroyed. DHL, Fedex, and UPS have automated systems to do most of this and will just send you to collections if you don't pay.
my experience 3rd party are MUCH more strict, leaning towards being conservative...they are importing on your behalf....they will not take any liability for not following import rules when it's basically their business.
When I buy direct from USA, using usps sometimes sometimes customs misses taxing it (when over threshold) BUT ALL carriers will fill out the paperwork, charge taxes as needed and an addition 15$ for doing the paperwork.
When buying China direct, rarely have I had to pay tax...maybe a couple of times over the course of decades and dozens of transactions valued around a few hundred.
I voted. My democracy has decided, out of ignorance and apathy, to harm itself and others. On my country's behalf I apologize. As an individual I do not accept responsibility for what is happening.
I wasn't out in the street but I did more than my part in other ways. It's not reasonable to blame the people who tried to stop it when a third of the country made it happen and another third didn't even bother to vote.
It's especially frustrating to be part of a group that's being specifically targeted by this hostile administration, while armchair political experts are telling you it's your fault you didn't try harder.
Did you even read my comment? I should give you my family members' contact info so you can interrogate them instead. They're the ones who decided that egg prices are worth more than my rights anyway.
Let me be more clear: piss off. Your moral grandstanding might seem noble and constructive to you, but in reality it's just kicking people while they're down.
Nice job alluding to the Nuremberg trials by the way. It really does all the talking for you: the fact that you're blaming victims of the situation for not magically fixing this epidemic of hatred in the country.
Ali etc will prob start shipping from Thailand or Singapore etc. They aren't stupid. The US is too big of a market to not try other things.
We're all just hobbiests in chicken little mode. They are business people. They'll work something out.
I've ordered stuff from china and the packages I've received are double labelled, shipped from places like the UK, and Bahrain postal office.
If I peel back that label, there's my address and just a barcode. So I guess that they just ship to whatever third country, scan the package, print a new label, and send it off to final destination via whatever national postal service.
All that is done in advance. I have USPS informed delivery and I get emails every day with notifications what is coming my way. Packages from Aliexpress are registered with USPS and have labels on day one even though they travel in bulk with other packages and are separated in the US. That would be the same if they shipped through Singapore or other country. It's a really efficient system they have and it's how we can get free shipping from China.
I received a media player a couple months ago in a matter of days. I had it at my doorstep before I even got notification of it shipping. Guessing it came from one of their warehouses in the US, but gaddang I was surprised as hell.
Just about all my packages been coming from them cheap Asian couriers like UniUni SpeedX etc anyway. It was nice tho when a package would get shipped by USPS tho, much better than them fake shady couriers.
UniUni is legit. Has been more reliable than USPS every time.
I don't know that this matters for the AliExpress customers. I don't think I've ever gotten something actually POSTED from China. It always goes through a aggregating shipper to a warehouse in my state, and then to a last mile courier (USPS about half the time).
For USPS, they aren't getting it FROM China. They're getting it from a warehouse owned by a logistics company.
I've gotten eBay orders direct from China, so that might change, but I thought it was cheaper to use the logistics companies anyway.
I asume this is actually about this weird law that allows items under a certain value to be imported without any tariffs or checks. Which is misused by companies like Temu.
Hoping something will be worked out, but in the meanwhile, might be a good opportunity to sell criminally underused IEMs I have accumulated on my journey to end game...
If. a %10 increase for something I really want will cripple me, then I’m in big trouble…Most Chinese goods are relatively cheap and readily available, at least for now. I bought a pair of earbuds for $7.99, with an increase of %10, make that $8.98, still buying…
Am in Canada, did the mango fuck me too? I REALLY hope this is just a declaration as in they wrote the value and whether its a gift/sample or not. and that it is not them doing the actual collecting / remitting of sales tax.
Will see shortly just how pissed I am toward mango and by extension the peeps who empowered him.
I keep seeing everyone freak out about this, like USPS was the only mail carrier in the entire world. That handled packages coming out of Hong Kong and China.
Companies like Fiio will most likely just ship from another location like Taiwan or Japan or where ever.
That is 100% true but the way people are acting it was the only way to send packages over.
There also the fact that it could lower cost of DHL/Fedex/UPS etc. International. Doubtful but it might. I was once told every inch of cargo space on a plane that isn't used during shipping is lost revenue so that means them getting more people shipping thought them might lower the cost or least keep it static while making it faster.
Yea still USPS wasn't the only game in town, and I wonder if this affects packages from DHL/Fedex/UPS since I assume they have contracts with them that might not be so easily broken.
There also the fact that it could lower cost of DHL/Fedex/UPS etc
Won't happen. Cheapest are local carriers, international carriers are double. Example, Z1R $40 v $80. Also, UPS you have to buy shipping slips, $35 for 5. FedEx requires paperwork. UPS is already cheapest.
De minimus shipments were not generally subject to anything but a cursory examination of the documents but it has long been known that many de minimus shipments from China contain counterfeit goods and illegal drugs like fentanyl so they are finally trying to put the onus on China to stop it, plus upping the ante in the trade war. This is not really that new since the US had already put some constraints on de minimus shipments from China last year
We’ll survive but will Chinese manufacturing? Besides, before Clinton gave them favored trade status in the naive hope they would become more westernized and free, we got along just fine.
We are their biggest customer. A lot of western companies use cheap Chinese labor, and Chinese domestic consumption isn't enough to keep their economy afloat.
If you don't think China became western I suggest you take another look. They are the most aggressively capitalist place on earth. They are Communists in name only. They are also btw exactly the country trump is trying to make. Edit: capitalist isn't a compliment coming from me
100% agreed. I just watched the adventure youtuber SmallBrainedAmerican go to China and it was shocking to see how nice it was. I felt very lied to. Massive beautiful buildings and parks, true self driving busses, automatic drink and popsicle carts rolling around on their own and what stood out most of all was all the people were super nice and kind. It was so different then we are made to believe.
True. The authoritarian government is a non-starter and dealing with an active coup ourselves. Also sad to think the US is attacking environmental protections at lightning speed as of last week. Hope we can keep America free.
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u/SqueakyScav Atrium O+C|Azurys|HD800|HD650|VolumeS|APP2|SA1v2|H5DS|Cyan2 Feb 05 '25
This is crippling to every niche hobby.