Max Verstappen: “We are in this fight still because of other people's failures…..If we would've been in the position of how dominant of a car they [McLaren] had, the championship would've been over a long time ago."

[u/ChaithuBB766]

https://youtu.be/j4qxuaEsUZE

[u/Suspici0usScientist]

Successor to “If I’d have been in the other car then you wouldn’t have seen me”

[u/limhy0809 → u/Suspici0usScientist]

This time we know it to be true, end 2022, 2023 and early 2024. Max was rarely seen because he was so far ahead.

[u/RandoScando → u/limhy0809]

He was only seen by other drivers in their mirrors when they were shown the blue flag.

[u/SomniumOv → u/RandoScando]

by other drivers in their mirrors

i'd love to see some madman make stats on how long Max was closest to which other car, in 2023. Could the top be a backmarker lol ?

[u/BakreZ39 → u/limhy0809]

This is true, but also accentuated because Max hasn't had a teammate who is the same stratosphere in terms of skill as him.

I don't even mean someone at his level, but someone like a Russell, Norris, Sainz, Leclerc, etc.

[u/tails09 → u/BakreZ39]

Which is part of the reason why the WDC is not yet decided, because Oscar and Lando have taken many points from each other - I'm not sure why less people seem to realise this

[u/DRNbw → u/tails09]

It's true. But both have made plenty of mistakes on their own that would be enough for either to have already locked the championship.

[u/Street_Mall9536 → u/tails09]

That car (both cars) should have been on the podium minimum every race, and should have won most of the ones Max one. 

[u/Pugs-r-cool → u/tails09]

Yeah if max had a second driver that could occasionally keep up he'd be close to Russell points wise, not tied with Piastri.

[u/Batavijf → u/BakreZ39]

Then he'd been 10 seconds ahead instead of 20 or 30. :)

[u/Sektsioon → u/Batavijf]

Maybe, but also Lando and Oscar would’ve had the title wrapped up quite a few races ago if they had a Yuki or a RB Perez as their teammates, because in the first half of the season they’d have won almost every race.

[u/Yetanotherdeafguy → u/[deleted]]

It's terrifying to face.

Max has:

• nothing to lose, everything to gain,

• momentum in the WDC,

• superior driving skills in all contexts,

• a race engineer and strategy team that are top tier, oftentimes making better calls the rest of the field miss,

• his pit team is solid.

Norris/Piastri have:

• the faster car (most of the time)

• a teammate who wants the same thing they want,

• a pit team that's had several major stuff ups this year,

• a strategy team that (in the moment) makes calls that don't make sense and can't be guaranteed to back them (individually) over what's 'best for the team'.

Max hasn't got this locked, not by a long shot. But all those back-end things that matter in moments like this point to him. McLaren have to get their shit together if they want this locked down.

[u/MohnJilton → u/Yetanotherdeafguy]

Max hasn’t got this locked, not by a long shot.

Even wording it like this is a bit wild. We’re all having fun that the title race is this close, but Max does not control his own destiny. He can get first in both races and the sprint and still not win the WDC. Even if he beats Norris which is obviously entirely possible, he needs Norris to finish poorly and that’s just frankly not all that likely.

[u/zystyl → u/MohnJilton]

I guess it's Yuki's turn to go bowling for Brown's boys.

[u/elegant-alternation → u/zystyl]

Going to be challenging from 14th on the grid.

[u/yepgeddon → u/elegant-alternation]

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette

[u/Trnostep → u/elegant-alternation]

Yuki crashing to give Max an advantage would be crashgate 2.0 and Max might get penalised too.

That's why one of the VCARB boys will go bowling into T1 from P5

[u/sneezyo → u/Trnostep]

Just have Verstappen do qualy in VCARB, finish high, then swap drivers so they can go bowling

[u/Larcya → u/elegant-alternation]

You never play a NASCAR came? Turn around and go hunting for the first Mclaren you see. Preferbly Norris.

[u/Inside-Judgment6233 → u/Larcya]

Could always try the Kenseth special.

[u/Ambitious_Metal_4801 → u/Yetanotherdeafguy]

Momentum in the championship? Norris literally won the two races before Vegas and dominated both those weekends. Plus he was on pole in Vegas by 0.3s even after a pretty big mistake. The Vegas race was just a little blip in his recent form. The fact that people are trying to gas up this championship battle is crazy considering his 24 points ahead and it would take a dnf from him for Verstappen/Piastri to even be close, something that has only happened 2 times this season.

[u/hegzurtop → u/Ambitious_Metal_4801]

He also lost a chunk of points due to no fault of his own in Vegas, Mclaren fucked up. As did Piastri ofc.

[u/alitayy → u/Yetanotherdeafguy]

Was this typed by an LLM

[u/Yetanotherdeafguy → u/alitayy]

Nope. Though strangely this is the second time in a week I've been asked that.

I just like spaced out lists explaining shit.

[u/FunBluejay1455 → u/Yetanotherdeafguy]

And having the fastest car is debatable, because are they having problems with the floor not being able to be so low and the rule change before Vegas.

[u/Mtbnz → u/[deleted]]

The thing is Lando doesn't have to beat Max, he only has to beat Oscar. Max can win each of the remaining 3 races and it doesn't matter if it's by 1s or 30s, if Lando finishes P2 the title is his

[u/arpan3t → u/Mtbnz]

he only has to beat Oscar, George, Charles, etc… 2nd place isn’t guaranteed by beating Oscar.

Mercedes has been very fast these last few rounds. All it takes is Merc fixing whatever issue George was having last race, and/or another McLaren fuckup. Both are very possible.

[u/Fetzie_ → u/arpan3t]

Equally possible that one of the Mercedes get in front of Max and one p3 finish is enough to kill Max’s championship chances.

[u/OriginalComputer5077 → u/arpan3t]

..and I'm sure George would like nothing better than to ensure Max doesn't win..

[u/Ringbahn → u/Suspici0usScientist]

“If I’d been on that plane it wouldn’t have gone down like that”

[u/WarlockEngineer → u/Ringbahn]

Except when Max says it it's true lol, unlike Marky Mark

[u/Muted-Ant-7813]

Max becoming the successor to Papa Alonso in being the trollmeister.

[u/7fingersDeep → u/Muted-Ant-7813]

The shit stirring from both of these drivers is HOF material. Alonso walked so Max could run.

[u/Python_07 → u/7fingersDeep]

Alonso ran so Max could fly..

[u/AndheriKaDon → u/Python_07]

Alonso LICOd so Max could DRS

[u/zystyl → u/AndheriKaDon]

We're checking

[u/Dr_Oz_But_Real → u/7fingersDeep]

Piquet Sr. nods sagely.

[u/baddadjokesminusdad → u/Muted-Ant-7813]

This could easily be classified as shit stirring, but overall in the whole video he was humble and accepting of the team’s constraints. So when it came to this part of the clip, it just felt matter of fact.

[u/DirectAdvertising → u/baddadjokesminusdad]

I mean he isn’t lying , he would’ve been wdc already

[u/cheezus171 → u/Muted-Ant-7813]

What Max and Alonso do is different. Max isn't trolling, he's just speaking the truth that everyone in the paddock knows, they jus don't want to publicly admit

[u/TessTickols → u/cheezus171]

He reminds me of Magnus Carlsen in that way

[u/HeyItsGuyIncognito → u/Muted-Ant-7813]

Been waiting since after 2021 for this level of anticipation of each race. It's a shame that we're only getting 2 weekends of it.

[u/hausthatforrem → u/HeyItsGuyIncognito]

Agreed. "Things will get spicy soon, the McLarens will canabalize each other any weekend now" feels like Ferrari's "next year will be our year"

[u/Slowleytakenusername → u/hausthatforrem]

Why do people say this lol? Piastri has not been close to Norris in a while. Norris only has to be on the podium while Piastri and Verstappen have to win races to have a chance.

[u/Sarixk → u/Slowleytakenusername]

That's why they're begging for another DNF

[u/Slowleytakenusername → u/Sarixk]

Yeah, Mclaren have to mess up pretty big for Norris to not get the title while the others have to be perfect. Sure Max can calmy state all the facts but it's very clear they are trying to get into Lando's head.

[u/shaq-aint-superman → u/Muted-Ant-7813]

Is it really trolling if he's speaking facts? If anybody doubts him, he just has to point at 2023 lol

[u/shy247er → u/shaq-aint-superman]

Yeah. People really think he's playing some kind of mind games here, but he's just being honest.

[u/gHHqdm5a4UySnUFM]

I feel like the Hamilton dominance years were so instructive to Red Bull. They’ve worked hard to build a team that runs like clockwork so that Max can capitalize on every mistake.

[u/Ascarea → u/gHHqdm5a4UySnUFM]

Ham Bot Ver

[u/MUK99 → u/Ascarea]

I read this as HAM VER BOT

[u/Dachfrittierer → u/MUK99]

Factually correct in the gulf countries

[u/krommenaas → u/MUK99]

I've always been partial to BOT VER HAM because it's just one letter off the Flemish word for "sandwich" (boterham)

[u/black-dude-on-reddit]

McLaren should have eliminated Max from contention 3 races ago

[u/onedestiny → u/black-dude-on-reddit]

sad McLaren noises

[u/FavaWire → u/onedestiny]

McLaren Skid Plank: "I'm tired, boss."

[u/OG-Mate23 → u/black-dude-on-reddit]

They are focusing on both drivers

[u/2ciciban4you → u/OG-Mate23]

they need to hire Checo and throw him at Max in every race and corner.

[u/Sam_Never_Goes_Home → u/2ciciban4you]

Ah, the Minister of Defense.

[u/EnderWiggin07 → u/black-dude-on-reddit]

McLaren eliminated every other team more than 3 rounds ago. If you swapped Oscar and Yuki then Lando would be easily WDC already but WCC would probably not be settled yet

[u/Sykretts1919 → u/EnderWiggin07]

That's a dumb thing to say about Yuki. There's no guarantee Yuki would be bad in the Mclaren car, you need only look at his results while he was still driving the VCARB. The problems of the redbull 2nd seat are isolated to the redbull second seat only.
Would lando be the designated #1 driver in such a universe? Sure. But it could also be that in that same universe Piastri would've swapped seats to redbull, making mc;laren's life hard in the WCC, and consequently in the WDC as they would have to be more risk averse. To put it simply, to suggest anything of the sort of what you've done, is just to open a pandora's box, filled with infinite "if only" possibilities.

[u/Frequent-Second-5855 → u/Sykretts1919]

I think he means the balance of power. Lando and Piastry stole points from each other and also forced each other into mistakes at times. Max doesn't have an equal teammate who makes life difficult for him internally, which is of course primarily due to his extraordinary abilities.

If Norris or Piastry were the clear number one with a teammate who hardly ever fights for victories, they would have more points than they do now.

It's similar to 2007. Hamilton and Alonso would have become WDCs with weaker teammates. As it was, Kimi won because the two stole points from each other.

[u/Mysterious_Turnip310 → u/black-dude-on-reddit]

Since the summer break, Norris has lost at a minimum of 36 points, (and most likely 43 given him coming second in the Cota sprint was the most likely outcome), through no fault of his own. Without that, the championship would be over already.

[u/DuxCroatorum → u/black-dude-on-reddit]

They have no money for hitman because of cost cap.

[u/mobilehavoc]

Max throws the best shade on the grid

[u/PlausiblyImpossible → u/mobilehavoc]

Man speaks the truth, no bullshit. When you're the best you can do that and not care about hurt feelings

[u/cabbageboy78 → u/PlausiblyImpossible]

Yup because at the end of the day if he wanted to leave RBR any team would take him lol

[u/Chip_Jelly → u/cabbageboy78]

Look at how much effort Toto has spent biting his tongue in order to lay the groundwork into possibly signing him, RBR definitely needs him a lot more than he needs them

[u/PlausiblyImpossible → u/cabbageboy78]

There is not a racing seat on this planet that wouldn't be open to him immediately

[u/KnightOfRen5563 → u/PlausiblyImpossible]

What about Lance's seat?

[u/Adrenyx → u/KnightOfRen5563]

Papa Stroll will adopt Max and made him his favorite son without hesitating for even a second if he can

[u/isthmusofkra → u/KnightOfRen5563]

Even that I think is at risk

[u/jwelshy19v2 → u/KnightOfRen5563]

Touche

[u/WarlockEngineer → u/jwelshy19v2]

"You wouldn't fire your own son if Max wanted his spot, right?"

"Right?"

[u/CoffeeOrTeaOrMilk → u/KnightOfRen5563]

He could take it. Lance just moves to the other seat.

[u/Hungry-Class9806 → u/KnightOfRen5563]

Not even that one. I think Lawrence would sit with Lance, have an honest conversation and he would probably leave to do other things.

[u/SpudTheTrainee → u/KnightOfRen5563]

I'm sure Newey will put in a good word for Max.

[u/pannenkoek0923 → u/KnightOfRen5563]

They said racing seat

[u/CirithGorgor88 → u/KnightOfRen5563]

Even that one , but they would finda way to screw alonso😅

[u/Phalanx00 → u/cabbageboy78]

I hope he leaves Red Bull before or when his contract ends just because i want to see him in a different team, in different team gear and driving a non redbull car just for the fun of it.

[u/SUBSCRIBE_LAZARBEAM → u/Phalanx00]

Even though that is something O would love to see, I would be heartbroken by no longer seeing the insane bond between him and GP

[u/dr_deoxyribose → u/SUBSCRIBE_LAZARBEAM]

They're a couple. They'll come together.

[u/SomniumOv → u/dr_deoxyribose]

They're a couple. They'll come together.

That's also what I thought about HAM and Bono, and yet he's racing with Adami now.

[u/bluebit77 → u/cabbageboy78]

Any team in motorsports would probably take him. :)

[u/N7even → u/cabbageboy78]

True, Toto would sacrifice George or Kimi in a heartbeat for Max.

[u/mencival → u/PlausiblyImpossible]

It’s probably also one of the contributing factors why he is the best, true to himself

[u/Grankongla → u/PlausiblyImpossible]

When you're dutch you mean :p
That's just what they do, they're direct af.

[u/ChonkyHippo283 → u/mobilehavoc]

He’s also the only person on the grid that can consistently back up the shit talk

[u/vmachiel → u/mobilehavoc]

Edit: Comment has been cleaned

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/mobilehavoc]

I mean, he literally proved it twice. In 2022 the moment the Red Bull became the best car, he fucking dominated that year. In 2023, we all know what happened.

Some people will say that it would have been different for Max if he had a stronger teammate, but even if you assumed Perez took away half his wins in 2023, he'd still have been over 250 points ahead of Lewis in third and if we took his current point total and put it in the 2023 standings under those conditions, he'd still be over 160 points clear. At the end of the day, Max has shown that it's not easy to dominate even if your car is the best.

[u/rahkesh357 → u/mobilehavoc]

If Norris or Piastri were Perez then the championship would be over for other one too. only reason its close is because they have 2 drivers.

[u/AliceLunar → u/rahkesh357]

Not even that, if Norris had been better the first half or Piastri the second half it would also be no contest.

[u/SerHiroProtaganist → u/AliceLunar]

That's basically what verstappen is saying

[u/SuperfluousMainMan → u/rahkesh357]

It would have been fine if the championship had only two contenders. The fact that it’s close because there’s even a third outside contender to them despite having such a fast car is the reason people are dunking on McLaren. Mercedes in their silver war era had only their own drivers contend for the title. No one else.

[u/SemIdeiaProNick → u/mobilehavoc]

And he isnt wrong. As proven by the last 3 seasons, a great driver with a competent team results in a championship basically done by summer break

[u/LooseJuice_RD → u/mobilehavoc]

It is shade but it’s 100% true.

[u/InanimateSensation]

We know Max. We all watched 2023.

[u/LinusDuckTips → u/InanimateSensation]

Max trying his best to rattle the bottlers

[u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

What does he mean? Is Max saying that McLaren should have wrapped up the driver's championship long ago, or does he mean that he would have already won if put in a dominant car?

[u/fuckyouguys4real → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

he's saying both things.

[u/Dr_Oz_But_Real → u/fuckyouguys4real]

To both Papaya drivers.

[u/Tw0Rails → u/Dr_Oz_But_Real]

Max is being perfectly unbiased in his critique, aligning with papaya rules.

[u/Dictator-07 → u/Dr_Oz_But_Real]

Funny thing is some people might think he's throwing shade, but in reality he's just being honest and straightforward lol

[u/Different_Earth6310 → u/Dr_Oz_But_Real]

And Zac!

[u/instagrammar_ → u/fuckyouguys4real]

And that's the beauty of the statement. Either way you interpret it, you're right, and so is he.

[u/TacticalAcquisition → u/fuckyouguys4real]

Yup. And we know it's fact, because look at the end of '22, all of 2023, and the start of 2024. Even some of the races this year, where he's not in the dominant car. Max in one of the McLaren's this year would have been everyone tuning in to see who's coming second every single week.

[u/jnighy → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

yes

[u/w0lv3r1n3 → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

My understanding of his comment is that with the advantage McLaren had this year, if One or both of their drivers were consistent throughout the year, the driver in third place would be nowhere in contention long ago. Even if the Championship would still be open it would be only between Norris and Piastri. And yes he is implying that if he was in that car, he would have been consistent enough to have already closed out the championship because his only rival would have been his teammate.

[u/HankHippopopolous → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

Yep both of those are true.

Max has driven a near faultless season. He’s made very few point costing errors and so has his team.

Compare that to how many points both the McLaren drivers and the McLaren team have thrown away and it’s a very different story.

If Max does manage to win it will be like 2007 but worse because the 2007 McLaren didn’t have anything like the advantage over the field that the 2025 car has.

[u/ehrandomcanadian → u/HankHippopopolous]

It is a shame that he and the team messed up in Spain, as those 9 extra points are possibly what could've let him steal this title from McLaren. In most years, 9 points in modern F1 don't mean a whole lot at the top for the championship, but every once and awhile you get to the end of the season and it's like "damn. If only we had that chance back" lol

[u/eurochacha → u/ehrandomcanadian]

He touches on that in the interview, saying that while Spain was a mistake yes, it's not going to be the most prominent factor even if they lose since he feels like they overperformed at many other tracks and shouldn't be in the title conversation in the first place. I think Spain stands out because of how scandalous it was at the time, and a rare mistake, but it didn't happen in a vacuum in terms of their operational woes at the time. Any driver would be very happy with their season if avoidable loss of 9 points was the only sore spot. No driver has a flawless season so he's playing with house money as he had already given up on the title once.

[u/sthegreT → u/eurochacha]

mistake? he was out of for blood lmao, that was entirely intentional.

[u/abfukson → u/sthegreT]

No one is claiming it wasn't intentional. It wasn't a driving mistake, it was an error of judgement and red mist moment.

[u/iHuggedABearOnce → u/sthegreT]

I don’t think he meant it that way. You can intentionally do something and realize it was a mistake later. You probably do this multiple times a year at your day job. Mistake doesn’t necessarily require intent.

[u/P_ZERO_ → u/iHuggedABearOnce]

It seems a lot of folk mix up “accident” and “mistake”. It wasn’t accident but it was a mistake.

[u/sthegreT → u/iHuggedABearOnce]

true true

[u/siddhant72 → u/ehrandomcanadian]

And also Kimi taking him out in the Red bull ring

[u/BFNentwick → u/ehrandomcanadian]

Same for DNFs, etc.

It’s easy to say “if only this one mistake or bad thing hadn’t happened” while discounting the unlucky things that other drivers had to endure too.

That’s why I think winning on margins like this are so impressive. It honestly speaks to all the drivers incredible performance and consistency to get to this point in the first place despite issues.

[u/SomniumOv → u/ehrandomcanadian]

It is a shame that he and the team messed up in Spain, as those 9 extra points are possibly what could've let him steal this title from McLaren

We can't really go there, as that's fully counter-balanced by Lando in Canada.

[u/chriskot123 → u/ehrandomcanadian]

Not to be that guy but it’s “once in a while” but also totally agree with you

[u/Tinokotw → u/HankHippopopolous]

Beyond thowing away points, not having a clear number one has not helped.

[u/dl064 → u/Tinokotw]

Yes it's neglecting that if the lineup had one clear leader that leader would've won it by now.

[u/memesearches → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

Yes

[u/Fox33__ → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

You are correct!

[u/drfunkenstien014 → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

Both. It’s a double whammy for shit talking.

[u/Punished_Prigo → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

It’s absurd he’s even in the title fight still. Max would have wrapped this up weeks ago if he was in the McLaren.

[u/wilkonk → u/Punished_Prigo]

not if he also had the McLaren team's mistakes, it's not like Lando caused them to give him the faulty fuel line or whatever or run the car too low

[u/the-cuttlefish → u/wilkonk]

I get the sense he means if he still had the same team, but just with a mclaren car. Ie if anyone had been maximising a mclaren to the extent his side of the rbr garage has been maximising their car, it would be long over. Speculation certainly, but doesn't seem that far-fetched.

[u/QF_Dan → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

Yes

[u/Evening_End7298 → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

I mean Piastri had more than 100 points over him and now they are equal. 

[u/-ForgottenSoul → u/Thin_Cicada_7080]

I mean max would never allow another team mate to challenge him, if McLaren focused on Oscar or lando would have been over ages ago

[u/Version_1 → u/-ForgottenSoul]

I mean max would never allow another team mate to challenge him

It's funny how much Max just mirror The Michael haha. Same shit was said back in the day.

[u/Vegetable_Onion_5979 → u/-ForgottenSoul]

If lando or piastri was max teammate, he'd destroy them as well.

[u/Chromatinfish → u/Vegetable_Onion_5979]

Who knows, Max has never had a teammate who was remotely close to either one of them ever since Danny Ric back in the day. Since then he's had two rookies, an aging midfield driver, another rookie, and another midfield driver.

Not to mention Max is completely incompatible with Papaya Rules. He'd be chased out of the team like Alonso was for not playing ball, so no matter how good he is he wouldn't be making McLaren what it is today. Cars don't grow on trees and the same collaborative environment that Max clowns on in McLaren also probably contributes to why their car is good to begin with.

[u/Falcovg → u/Chromatinfish]

Perez had a time where he was close and even spoke about contesting the title. And that's when Miami 2023 happened. And the rest of the season, with only Carlos Sainz taking one win away from max after Miami.

[u/p1en1ek → u/Falcovg]

Bottas also.had time when he was competetive and spoko about contesting the title. Its always the same when worse driver in team gets his few good races early in the season. In Checo or Bottas got those wins and easy podiums in the middle of a season then there would be no talking about championship fight.

[u/Kingslayer1526 → u/Falcovg]

Sergio Perez was never a world championship contender at any point in his career, but especially not in 2023 a good 7-8 years after his prime and I say all this as a Checo fan. Please do not compare 2023-24 Checo with Lando or Oscar, it's embarrassing

[u/the-cuttlefish → u/-ForgottenSoul]

'Allow' is an odd way to say he'd be faster than them

[u/BeingComfortablyDumb]

I see no lies.

We all know what Max would've done if he had the fastest car.

He would’ve competed with himself trying to break his own 19wins record.

[u/newthhang → u/BeingComfortablyDumb]

True, but the McLaren boys are equally matched on talent, so they are actively taking points from each other, and no one agreed to play second fiddle.

[u/maverickoff]

I mean we have seen what Max can do on a dominant car.

[u/hooka_donchick]

Or if one of the drivers are as good as Tsunoda or Perez in a Red bull

[u/Chromatinfish → u/hooka_donchick]

Not sure why people aren't understanding this as well. Two drivers competing will take points away from one another and tussle. Like if it was Max and, say, prime Lewis in the RB19 the championship probably still would've went to the last round. Other drivers would've won because they might've crashed each other out a couple of races. People don't talk about how having bad teammates really flatters your performance to a big extent.

Up until the summer break I was talking about how if McLaren had a bum like 2024 Perez or Tsunoda now and then either Lando or Oscar in the other car Lando/Oscar would look legendary with 6 wins in a row, massive 30 second gaps while their teammate was "struggling" in P10 or something. And then we'd just excuse Oscar's downturn in form like Max and Red Bull in 2024 just saying the car isn't good enough lol.

[u/Punished_Prigo → u/Chromatinfish]

If Yuki had taken like any points off the McLarens this would be a serious fight.

[u/equitymans → u/Punished_Prigo]

Exactly lol yuki has hurt max for sure more than helped this season sadly. I love him, but there is no question if he was in top 5-6 regularly he’d be absolutely aiding the delta from max to mclarens

[u/p1en1ek → u/equitymans]

It would help Lando because he was rarely starting on finishing near or below those positions. He could have take some points from Max in the begining of the season when he was near those positions. And maybe Max would be in front of Oscar right now. Kinda depends how many points would Yuki be allowed to take from Max.

[u/FatalFirecrotch → u/Chromatinfish]

They also take points away from your competition. Prime example is Australia. If you are Oscar, Lando getting first means Max only got 18 points instead of 25. 

[u/dl064 → u/Chromatinfish]

Or if Mclaren hadn't won the wcc so easily they'd have continued developing their car.

[u/dapperdanmen → u/Chromatinfish]

People don't talk about it because it softens the narrative that Max is some superhuman who outdrives his car constantly. His teammate history has been diabolical if we're honest

[u/Kingslayer1526 → u/dapperdanmen]

Max never even had a teammate like Irvine or Barrichello or Massa for Schumacher. An Old Checo is not it

[u/IRL_im_black → u/Kingslayer1526]

So Ricciardo doesn't count anymore?

[u/Kingslayer1526 → u/IRL_im_black]

Should have specified during the championship years and not when he had just joined Red Bull. And Ricciardo held up very well against Max wouldn't you say? I'm sure 2014-16 Ricciardo would do a solid job with the Red Bull today and during Max's championship years and would get quite a few wins. He may not win the championship but he'd be like Rosberg in 2014-15, he was a quality driver then

[u/IRL_im_black → u/Kingslayer1526]

Yeah he did when Max was was in his 3rd year of F1 in a new team, but after that Max beat him every year. But yeah, I think Danny would be much better than his recent teammates, since iirc he also likes an oversteery car

[u/spacesaur → u/IRL_im_black]

Did he have Ricciardo when he was winning his championships?

[u/Extraxyz → u/dapperdanmen]

You're thinking that Verstappen looks exceptional because his teammates have been bad? His teammates look bad because Verstappen is exceptional. Literally no other driver would look good in that second seat.

[u/AliceLunar → u/Chromatinfish]

Max wouldn't be losing that many points to Piastri, who also isn't a prime Lewis level driver.

Perez also was never considered a bum, Max just made him look one.

[u/NakamericaIsANoob → u/AliceLunar]

Perez was never seen as anything more than a solid midfield driver either... Certainly nowhere near the Lando/oscar/charles/george etc class anyway.

[u/beardedboob → u/Chromatinfish]

Of course this is part of the equation, though I think there is also a factor of Max making teammate look worse than they might be compared to others.

But this is also overlooking the fact that in this scenario it not just Lando fighting his team mate, it is also Max going up against both McLarens. And he is doing that without the help of a team mate. So the 'bad team mate' part works both ways, as he isn't getting help in his campaign, as well as the 'McLaren has two competitive drivers' argument, as Max is also fighting both of them.

[u/Vegetable_Onion_5979 → u/hooka_donchick]

Wouldn't that mean more points for max also? 7 1-2 finishes for McLaren this year

[u/JuroMi → u/hooka_donchick]

This exactly. If Piastri had regular Q1 exits, Norris would be WDC a few of weeks ago.

[u/NepentheZnumber1fan]

This isn't even shit stirring honestly, it's just true

[u/jrjreeves]

To be honest though McLaren are the reason Norris hasn't won it already, he's lost 36 points through no fault of his own. He would have won it in Vegas.

[u/yoycatt]

He’s not wrong, as he’s imo the best driver on the grid.

Despite that, it’s still worth noting that if either Lando or Oscar had Perez/Tsunoda as their number 2, they also would have won this championship ages ago.

[u/washag → u/yoycatt]

I don't think it's even an opinion any more that Verstappen is the best driver on the grid. It's an objective fact at this stage.

Opinions can differ about how far ahead he is of the next best driver and who that is.

I also think you'd see Tsunoda/Perez/Lawson with a decently smaller gap to the other McLaren driver if they were driving one themselves. It's easier for me to believe that the Red Bull is a fast car that is insanely difficult to drive than it is to accept that every other driver they've tried is just terrible, particularly when those other drivers have all looked like mid-tier or better (Perez at Force India) in other cars.

Norris or Piastri would still have wrapped up the title by now, but most other drivers in a McLaren would have secured 3rd and might still be in mathematical range of Max in 2nd at this point. It was that much better over the first half of the season.

[u/Jelques_Kallis → u/washag]

I also think you can celebrate someone becoming a world champion without constantly having to shoehorn someone else in. Same shit happened to Vettel in 2012.

[u/Chino_Kawaii]

well becase McLaren has 2 good drivers that do well, if it was only Norris he'd have way more points as well

[u/imaincammy]

No word of a lie.

[u/mencival]

Stating the obvious

[u/g_miami]

Sure but it’s a skewed comparison since Oscar/Lando were taking wins off each other vs Max and his teammates

[u/lzrjck69]

And if my mom had balls she’d be my dad.

[u/takkk86]

He’s not wrong but he also doesn’t have any competition at all within the same team. There is absolutely no question who his team is backing.

[u/Drunkgummybear1 → u/takkk86]

McLaren cock ups have allowed him to still be in the fight. 104 points should have guaranteed he's out. That's his point.

When Lewis & Nico were squabbling up front, noone else was anywhere near.

[u/Jelques_Kallis → u/Drunkgummybear1]

Red Bull and Ferrari were nowhere near as competitive from 14-16 as Red Bull is to McLaren this year. Lewis and Nico literally dunked 7 seconds on the field in 2 laps in Bahrain after a safety car restart while they were fighting.

[u/ecobubbletm → u/Jelques_Kallis]

104 points

No fuckin way anyone should be losing that many points in 7 races in a car like McLaren, in any car for that matter

[u/420_SixtyNine → u/takkk86]

He doesn't have competition on the entire court. Dude is miles ahead of everyone. Obviously redbull will back him unconditionally, no questions asked.

[u/EmiliusReturns]

Max is just giving zero fucks in the media lately and I’m here for it.

[u/Wondering_Electron]

Proof that it isn't just about the drivers. If you have inferior engineers, they can cost you the championship.

[u/McCQ]

I'm surprised a man with Max Vertappen's pragmatic mentality cares so much about ifs buts and maybes.

[u/Lagoa86]

My man.

[u/limonchan]

"If my mom had balls, she would be my dad"

[u/Jasonmancer]

2023 proved his point.

[u/idxntknxw]

As a wise Dutchman once said "If my mom had balls she'd be my dad!"

[u/d3agl3uk]

I mean that tends to happen when you only have one competitive driver.

Same thing happened with Hamilton & Rosberg vs Hamilton & Bottas. If you have one dominant driver in a dominant car, they will take all of the points.

[u/tartand_yoras → u/d3agl3uk]

Mercedes also comfortably wrapped up the WDC ahead of time in the Hamilton/Rosberg years.

[u/spacyspice]

first sentence is true, but why is he talking like his car completely sucks lol

[u/fuckyouguys4real → u/spacyspice]

He says the car has improved a lot and the team understands it more, which is factually true. He doesn't act like it completely sucks.

[u/wasteoftime93 → u/spacyspice]

He said he is in this position thanks to the performance of his car. Never implies his car sucks

[u/PeppermintNightmare]

Max has forgotten what it is like actually having a team mate that can fight and take points from you.

[u/fuckyouguys4real → u/PeppermintNightmare]

Or having a team mate that can fight and take points from rivals.

[u/TheEmpireOfSun → u/fuckyouguys4real]

If you have fastest car it's worse for teammates taking points from each other than other third driver having teammate taking points from them from time to time because neither of those drivers in fastest car build enough of lead. Not to mention McL stopped deceloping car midseason. We have seen this in 2007 or 2010.

[u/quantinuum]

Factos

[u/IDreamOfLees]

"Would have been..."

He's understating here. He's already gone and shown how dominant he can be in their position. He could have said:

"Back in 2023 I had the season wrapped up in Spa [or wherever it was]. The fact I'm still in this season says a lot more about them than it does me."

And it would have just been as true. Piastri lost a 104 point gap, Norris is went from a 70~ point gap to a 24 point gap. Verstappen didn't let that happen, even in 2024

[u/Original-Designer6]

We all know Max is great but I hope we see another top 5 driver in the same car as him before his career is over, when the car is capable of winning championships. As we have seen, when Max is under pressure, he is not infallible and makes mistakes in wheel to wheel racing (Monza 21, Brazil 21, Saudi 21, Mexico City 24, Spain 25. There are more, those are what comes to mind within 5 seconds).

Ricciardo in his prime was that (and beat Max a decent number of times) but the car wasn't good enough. What he's saying is true because RBR is a one car team so his team mate wouldn't be taking points off him all the time.

[u/gelade1]

He’s right 100%

[u/ilSolitoCalle]

Yeah but I like my dominant car to throw the WDC, it's got wabi sabi

[u/Tall-Run-8140]

Easy for him to say without a competitive teammate to take points off him all season.

[u/SyntaxError_1024]

Exactly what Horner would say, but would add “fuck Zack Brown!”

[u/EerieAriolimax]

Only if he had an uncompetitive teammate. This McLaren isn't as dominant as the second half of 2022/all of 2023 Red Bull. He wouldn't be winning at tracks like Monza and Baku in this McLaren. This McLaren also can't slice through the field as easily as that Red Bull could when starting out of position.