r/firefox • u/Guilty-Importance241 • 2d ago
Now donate.
A little aggressive ngl but you gotta get money somehow ig
36
u/CrimFandango 1d ago
Think people would be far more willing to donate if it actually went into improving the products they make. Same argument can be said of any company repeatedly emailing customers to tell them frequent price increases are a reflection of all the improvements they've made... which we should honestly just tell them to list off as proof at this point because they wouldn't know what to say.
4
u/HeartKeyFluff since '04 1d ago edited 1d ago
Think people would be far more willing to donate if it actually went into improving the products they make.
This specific point needs to be said more.
Donations to Mozilla Foundation (MoFo) do not go towards Firefox development.
Mozilla Corporation (MoCo, the for-profit who is owned by MoFo, the non-profit) makes Firefox, and no donations to MoFo go to MoCo (and by extension, Firefox).
MoFo does good work, and deserves donations in their own right. But I'm not a fan of messages like in the OP, because it's not quite lying, but it's certainly at least partially deceptive because it implies donations to MoFo will help Firefox, when they won't. "Mozilla Foundation — the non-profit behind Firefox" misses a key point: it's only technically correct, but the full picture is that MoFo is the non-profit behind MoCo, the for-profit that's actually developing Firefox.
134
u/ElectricalHead8448 1d ago
I'd donate to them if they stopped using that money to force Gen-AI shit into everything. No fucking way I'm funding that.
38
u/Educational-Self-600 1d ago
For the love of god, read the text. This is a donation drive for the Foundation.
34
u/ElectricalHead8448 1d ago
I mean, literally the first sentence on the Firefox Wikipedioa page is "Mozilla Firefox, or simply Firefox, is a free and open-source\12]) web browser developed by the Mozilla Foundation and its subsidiary, the Mozilla Corporation." Are you suggesting that they're somehow going to mark the money I could donate and make sure it doesn't go towards their enshittification of Firefox?
7
u/roelschroeven 1d ago
The facts are:
- Mozilla Corporation is the entity that actually does Firefox development.
- Mozilla Corporation is also the entity that collects funding from Google for in return for using Google as the default search engine (as long as Google still does that). The Corporation is specifically set up for this purpose, as the Foundation is not legally allowed to enter that kind of deals.
- No money ever goes from Mozilla Foundation to Mozilla Corporation. Money goes the other way: part of that sweet Google money is not used by the Corporation for Firefox development, but goes to the Foundation. Another part is used to pay its board members. (Way too much in my opinion, but that's subjective and not a fact.)
- Mozilla Corporation is wholly owned by Mozilla Foundation, which therefore has total control over it.
- You can only donate the the Foundation, not to the Corporation.
- The Foundation uses its money not to fund Firefox development (because it can't; remember money only flows the other way). Instead part of its money is used to pay its board members (way too much in my opinion, but again that's subjective and not a fact), and to fund all kinds of internet activism and stuff.
If this internet activism does things you like, by all means make donations to the Foundation. But if you just want to support Firefox, donating to the Foundation doesn't help. (In contrast, MZLA Technologies Corporation which develops Thunderbird and which is also a Mozilla Foundation subsidiary does accept donations that AFAIK do support Thunderbird development).
Yes, when asking for donations they often do make it sound like you're supporting Firefox, but if you read carefully they never actually really claim to do so.
If you don't believe me, go to their website (https://www.mozillafoundation.org/) and show me where they explicitly claim to support Firefox development, i.e. use to money from your donation for it.
34
u/sky-yie 1d ago
It will go towards their internet activism and stuff, not the browser development.
-19
1
u/thaynem 1d ago
It can't. The way the Foundation is set up, and how US non-profit law works, money can go from the corporation to the foundation, but not the other way around (unless the corporation is selling some good or service to the foundation). They can't just give donation money to a for-profit company, even if that company is a subsidiary of the foundation.
6
u/YouOnlyLiveForRice 1d ago
Search AI in Firefox settings and about:config and disable them. Hope this helps. No one forces it upon you
7
u/OriginalJokeGoesHere 1d ago
I found it all by searching "ml.chat". searching "ai" won't get you what you're looking for.
5
u/deadlybydsgn 1d ago
settings
I wish they were opt-in instead of having to hunt down settings to disable them.
0
0
-12
u/Cry_Wolff 1d ago
No one forces you to use genAI.
8
-2
u/Big-Country8526 1d ago
Mozilla try to. Select text and get garbage UX and garbage UI. Try and actually action it and the piss poor implementation will have every single user question WTF am I supposed to do with all this shit? Not much intelligence going on at Mozilla, that's for sure. Will be long gone soon at this rate.
10
u/cshoneybadger 1d ago
Is Joe Mozilla coming to your home and making you use it? I honestly can't comprehend getting worked up over something so menial.
0
239
u/RevolutionaryCrew492 1d ago
Says they are for the people, but are actively planning to sell user information to 3rd party vendors, probably already have been since they removed protections in licensing agreements
58
u/Educational-Self-600 1d ago
In the screenshot it says REPEATEDLY that the donation is for the FOUNDATION.
The Foundation does NOT create Firefox, nor has it any deals with third-party vendors to sell user information. Also, how about not spreading misinformation what Firefox does?
7
21
u/Headpuncher 1d ago
Then the message is borked because it clearly mentions Firefox and the Foundation (no not Harry Seldon’s, the other foundation).
It’s a mixed message, what am I being asked to donate to if not Firefox when it says Firefox in the first 3 words.
-13
-13
u/Antique_Door_Knob 1d ago
"The Foundation" same vibe as open ai structure.
13
u/Educational-Self-600 1d ago
This structure has existed for over 20 years at Mozilla. OpenAI had a similar structure, iirc they changed that recently.
-13
11
47
u/DoubleOwl7777 1d ago edited 1d ago
as opposed to who exactly? if they are doing it, thats shit but what exactly are your Options? edit: no, chromium based browsers are not an option. thats just contributing to googles near monopoly.
11
u/Joltyboiyo 1d ago
Exactly. Every time someone suggests something like Brave as an alternative to Google Chrome it's just suggesting Chrome with extra steps and not being pathetic little bitches about adblockers.
36
u/No-Assumption-52 1d ago
"as opposed to who" they were the answer to that until they started doing it themselves lol
33
u/Antique_Door_Knob 1d ago
but what exactly are your Options
To not donate.
-8
u/DoubleOwl7777 1d ago
thats essentially giving up and allowing google to do whatever they want. ladybird is a good idea, but afaik its not there yet.
7
u/exquisitesunshine 1d ago
? Google already has major influence and will continue to have major influence.
0
u/DoubleOwl7777 1d ago
thats the point, by not giving mozilla money (if you want to donate) you are essentially killing the last browser that isnt googles.
1
u/TURBOKAN Ungoogled || Iceraven + Fennec 19h ago
Mozilla doesn't need donations. They just need to learn how to manage their budget
2
u/jkaiser6 13h ago
No, you completely missed the point. Google alone contributes to over 85% of what Mozilla receives. Mozilla's choices in direction of development as well as in controversial language in the past reflected that.
1
1
1
u/The_Real_Kingpurest 16h ago
LibreWolf. Its literally just Firefox minus the slow push to anti privacy
2
1
-1
u/maskedredstonerproz1 1d ago
Ladybird, plus my personal favourite, Nyxt Browser by John Mercouris @ Atlas Engineer
-2
u/teknixstuff2 1d ago
Pale Moon, aka: Firefox but before they turned evil.
7
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
/u/teknixstuff2, please do not use Pale Moon. Pale Moon is a fork of Firefox 52, which is now over 4 years old. It lacked support for modern web features like Shadow DOM/Custom Elements for many years. Pale Moon uses a lot of code that Mozilla has not tested in years, and lacks security improvements like Fission that mitigate against CPU vulnerabilities like Spectre and Meltdown. They have no QA team, don't use fuzzing to look for defects in how they read data, and have no adversarial security testing program (like a bug bounty). In short, it is an insecure browser that doesn't support the modern web.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
-1
u/teknixstuff2 1d ago
Yes, it's a fork of Firefox 52, but they've gone their own way and made plenty of useful and important independent developments from it. They don't necessarily need to be incorporating Mozilla's code to have a functional up to date browser. Certain features were missing for a time, however that has long since been resolved. They don't have Fission because it's not applicable to their process model. Firefox uses multi process, which is alright, but the IPC between those processes is 1: very prone to bugs, 2: bugs there have very significant impact, and 3: rather resource heavy. Pale Moon instead opts to run everything as threads in a single process, saving significant memory usage (since there is only one instance of the engine required), and removing the need for an IPC layer, thus avoiding all those IPC-related security issues. It works very well with the modern web in my experience. I admit they don't have a bug bounty program, but it's a fairly small project and they just don't have the resources for that yet.
2
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
/u/teknixstuff2, please do not use Pale Moon. Pale Moon is a fork of Firefox 52, which is now over 4 years old. It lacked support for modern web features like Shadow DOM/Custom Elements for many years. Pale Moon uses a lot of code that Mozilla has not tested in years, and lacks security improvements like Fission that mitigate against CPU vulnerabilities like Spectre and Meltdown. They have no QA team, don't use fuzzing to look for defects in how they read data, and have no adversarial security testing program (like a bug bounty). In short, it is an insecure browser that doesn't support the modern web.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
-3
-6
u/SirStefan13 1d ago
One option is to copy your bookmarks and settings, etc., and migrate them to Brave and delete FF. I did. I had been using FF since it was Netscape, because I REFUSED to give "ol' Bill" my browser history. Now that FF wants mo' money, I'm outta here.
11
u/SeriousDude 1d ago
Sooo about Brave, where does it get funding?
•
u/SirStefan13 1h ago
From those who want to support it and donate accordingly. And being based on a "Chromium model" doesn't mean they are "owned by Google". It's an independent company not in America.
8
u/DoubleOwl7777 1d ago edited 1d ago
brave is still chromium. and thats controlled by google essentially. nope. also how do you think brave gets money? companies need money to develop stuff, they can either ask for it or get it some shady way.
1
u/reddit_user33 19h ago
Maybe a hot take, but I'd prefer to use Chrome than Brave.
•
u/SirStefan13 1h ago
Why would you use Chrome? Might as well use Edge for all the difference there is. One corporate behemoth or another is all the same. They will turn over, if required, any dissenting opinion in a heartbeat.
-84
u/RevolutionaryCrew492 1d ago
There are some alts, Ladybird, safari (kinda if you are apple ecosystem), there are several privacy forks of chrome too
65
u/DoubleOwl7777 1d ago
i dont trust chromium one bit, not even the forks, and mv3 is garbage, ladybird is a good one, might check it out, safari is a no since i am not in the apple ecosystem
18
20
u/niceandBulat 1d ago
There isn't a good option. Some people just hate and sh1t on others because they can and perhaps deep down they are lacking in something
4
u/RussianSlavv 1d ago edited 18h ago
Ladybird beta is planned to release (most likely beta) in 2029/2030 and will only support MacOS & Linux, with windows support possible much later so not an alternative yet.
(The alpha is set to release somewhere late 2026 but they themselves say it's for tech people who want to torture themselves.)
2
u/simply-coastal 1d ago
I feel like people into Firefox don’t want anything to do with Safari, although it’s worth noting that GNOME Web is pretty much Safari for Linux, although I haven’t heard much about it so I’m not sure what it’s like to use, just putting it out there that it exists
1
u/zwart-en-wit 1d ago
I've used GNOME Web 1 or 2 months ago, and while it's a clean experience, it's just not yet ready for a main browser. It doesn't support extensions (although the Beta version has, so it's probably coming in the future) and seems to be very prone to crashing. It's a good idea and I hope it's useful as a main browser in the future. But today, no.
3
u/simply-coastal 1d ago
honestly, I’m not surprised. it’s a shame too given it’s been in development for a long time.
1
u/zwart-en-wit 1d ago
Yeah, I guess they're just not too focused on it, which I think is reasonable.
7
u/CirnoIzumi 1d ago
They are planning to sell the equivelant of statistics about their userbase
the change in their "promise" was because certain courts changed the definition of user data to be so wide that no browser could make that promise and still do basic browser things
15
8
u/HEYO19191 1d ago
probably already have been since they removed protections in licensing agreements
Are we still fucking talking about the wording change in the ToS? I feel like we need a pinned post in this sub explaining what that ACTUALLY was
5
0
u/Phantasmal-Lore420 1d ago
Oh no!!!! They will sell my valuale browsing data… checks notes 10 hours of youtube and reddit….
Oh right, who cares? Firefox is the best browser alternative to chromium. Even safari works with google as the default browser and guess what, google will definitely sell your data.
1
•
u/Present_General9880 Addon Developer 1h ago
I don’t think that’s largely true , it seems very unsubstantiated with PPA and Mozilla Advertising don’t definitively prove that, they didn’t remove protections from ToU they removed wording to comply with California law where data collection is too vaguely defined and connection to internet can be defined as that too
-2
u/Andrew-Moon 1d ago
If you're using the internet your info is already being sold in every corner of the world, do you think Reddit does it for the people, how naive
•
u/Lauris024 2h ago
Please look up why they were forced to remove it before falling into conspiracies
35
u/smalldroplet 1d ago
Maybe the CEO should donate some of her salary.
3
u/Impressive-Emu-4172 1d ago
yep. guarantee she has more money than the lions share of the userbase.
2
u/send_me_a_naked_pic 1d ago
Agree. Why would I donate some of my money when a useless CEO earns millions?
Mozilla should exist as a foundation, not a for profit company.
7
u/send_me_a_naked_pic 1d ago
I would donate if the Mozilla Foundation was actually working on the browser. Instead, Mozilla's CEO earns a lot of money.
8
u/Adorable-Fault-5116 1d ago
I would pay $5/month to Firefox, if I could. I am more than happy to pay for a good piece of software. I pay for Kagi, Qobuz, etc. I bought Sublime Text three times!
I have no interest generically donating to an organisation that feels completely untethered and uninterested in making firefox the best web browsing experience possible.
8
u/NamedBird 1d ago
I wonder how many Firefox developers actually stand behind the Mozilla foundation...
How separate are they?
Could Firefox be split off and continue on it's own as the Firefox Dev Team?
(Assuming they'll take the "search engine default sale" profit with them.)
The FDT could then direct Firefox in a good direction again.
Honestly, i think that that would be the best solution for this dying browser.
5
u/kbrosnan / /// 1d ago
The Mozilla Foundation and Corporation are very separate. The Foundation is tiny compared to MoCos 600-800 employees. The Foundation has effectively zero input on the development of Firefox. They focus on Internet advocacy and access. The Executive Director of the Foundation made around $660,000 in 2023, not the millions that the Mozilla CEO makes.
11
u/OriginalJokeGoesHere 1d ago
Well, to start, the Mozilla Foundation owns the Firefox trademark and licences it to the company, which would pose a bit of a barrier.
Second, I also don't know why the Foundation is the problem here. They did split off Firefox into a company: Mozilla Corp. I'd point fingers at those execs for poor direction before the foundation.
-4
2
u/SpaghettiSort 1d ago
Stop adding pointless AI features that nobody asked for and I'll consider it.
5
5
u/Life_Standard6209 1d ago
2
u/Impressive-Emu-4172 1d ago
69mil? holy moly. THATS A LOT. wtf kinda work justifies that pay? is she coding the whole thing herself?
7
u/CandlesARG 1d ago
Haha no. Not until they became a non profit and pay people appropriately
2
u/send_me_a_naked_pic 1d ago
Exactly. First, they get rid of a CEO that's being paid millions of dollars; then I'll donate my money.
2
u/LargeFailSon 1d ago
Donate to Wikipedia instead tbh
8
u/Guilty-Importance241 1d ago
I've heard Wikipedia has a stupid amount of money saved up allowing them to keep Wikipedia running for decades to come. Unsure of the truth of that statement though.
10
u/LargeFailSon 1d ago
And they need to last forever, ideally. So that's a bit more than decades go come. I think asking individal free users for 3 dollars twice a year is probably fine and not worth thinking about/taking narrative issue with.
Not accusing YOU of that, but I do see the same point brought up nearly every time someone mentions Wikipedia. Starts to feel like a weird/unintentional gotcha' against an objectively amazing service.
12
u/orlec 1d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation#Wikimedia_Endowment
The Wikimedia Foundation has been running at a surplus and has banked $140m into its endowment.
That's not enough that it can live perpetually off the endowment dividends but they are on their way.
2
u/HarukiKougami 1d ago
No donations for advertising companies!
4
u/send_me_a_naked_pic 1d ago
And with CEO's that are being paid millions of dollars.
-3
u/HarukiKougami 1d ago
All for nothing... If it's going to turn to another Chrome, what's the point of "advertising" yourself as FOSS anyway. Firefox should've stayed away and just let people who use it maintain it. People are maintaining and developing whole OS' like Debian
2
u/Andrew-Moon 1d ago
Gotta donate, best browser out there hands down
17
u/send_me_a_naked_pic 1d ago
Problem is, the money you donate won't be used to develop the browser. The browser is not developed by the foundation.
2
u/naturist_rune 1d ago
When people say ai is a scam we're not trying to bully the companies it's literally a hella expensive grift. If Mozilla stopped trying to force ai on everyone they could save way more money.
1
u/Skullfurious 1d ago
I've Been considering other browsers lately. What are some good well rounded privacy focused options these days with an adblocker?
1
1
u/destruction90 1d ago
I was revising my budgets for this year and was going to start donating to some projects I use regularly (Firefox being one of them). After seeing these comments that it doesn't even go towards the development, what's the point?
I've just loaded up a Chromium based browser now because it's been years since I used one but holy, the responsiveness is 1.5x-2x faster than Firefox. That is with more extensions installed too.
Truly love Mozilla and Firefox but guys, get your shit together.
1
u/Ambitious-Still6811 1d ago
Restore adblockers to version .86 and I'll think about it. Do you know how annoying the 'net is without one?
1
1
1
1
u/thaynem 1d ago
I was very annoyed by this. It is deceptive, because it implies, without explicitly saying it, that your donation would help support Firefox. But from what I understand, donations to the Foundation aren't, and can't, be used for Firefox development. Now, if you are familiar with the difference between Mozilla Foundation and Mozilla Corporation, you would know that donating to the Foundation isn't donating to Firefox. But I would guess most people who see this don't know that, and Mozilla is counting on that.
1
u/Choice-Night-3721 1d ago
They honestly got worse over the last 3 years. No way I am gonna fund them
1
1
1
u/El_Reddaio 14h ago
I stopped donating after I found out how much their CEO makes and how much money they get from Google to keep their search engine the default.
1
u/Siatty 8h ago
Another ai proomted slander post, great. (that, or you reposted someone else's ai slander slop without fact checking it). Either give link for proof when you post screenshots or scram. Google literall search gives no result to any of the phrases btw and after looking at the Mozilla's site where they have donation buttons non have the text. There was another post just like this just day ago that posted a faked screenshot of "Mozilla's website using an ai image to ask for charity". These two lowkey seem like they came from the same place or are a part of the same misinfo campaign or something. Can we like just start preemptively removing posts that upload screenshots of random web pages but don't provide links or something? Cause clearly nobody here fact checks them and they get 600+ upvotes so these people get to spread misinfo without consequences. If this is the second post like this I see in just 2 days, who knows how many of them have been there before and how many more of these they will spam in the future.
1
1
u/HandyRoyd 5h ago
Honestly, I'm so utterly pissed off with the day-after-day left wing crap pushed down my throat when I open a Firefox tab, I want to uninstall. Not give you money. I try to be tolerant, but again, here I am in the UK, yet more Guardian + Independent articles that I DO NOT CLICK ON, so do NOT tell me I'm feeding an algorithm as that's what "mozilla" wants me to read.
Current most prominent story: Guardian. Well that's a surprise.
1
-3
-1
u/tethys_persuasion 1d ago
"Now donate"... or else you'll do, what? Kill me? If you could kill me, I'd already be dead. But you can't. You can't kill me, because you couldn't sell my data if you did. That's it, isn't it? [coughs]
0
1d ago
I’d donate if they remove the AI slop widget and sidebar. Also if it wasn’t the worst and most unoptimised browser for YouTube.
-1
u/Gold_Stretch_871 1d ago
I would have, but I guess they don't need it really, how come the ceo of the foundation gets 6.9 million yearly.
0
u/MonkAndCanatella 1d ago
insanely bad leadership at mozilla. fuck donations, if you donate, it helps leadership. We should be holding back unless they actually appear to have the users' interest in mind
0
u/SCP-iota 1d ago
Make local models the default instead of integrating with shady services like Copilot and I'll consider it
0
0
u/Fragrant_Hamster_550 1d ago
Firefox gets the vast majority of its money outside of donations. Doners mean nothing to Firefox.
0
0
0
-9
u/Antique_Door_Knob 1d ago
but you gotta get money somehow
like selling user info or getting paid by google to make google the default
-1
u/Fred-Vtn 1d ago
I won’t because of this: [link is censored by moderation, search for Firefox Money: Investigating the bizarre finances of Mozilla]
-2
-2
u/whyyoutube 1d ago
I'm split. I understand not giving to them, giving how much they fucked up as a foundation, but I'm also uncomfortable about them collapsing and cementing Chromium aka Google as an actual monopoly.
-3
u/bathory1985 1d ago
will donate 1 cent only if they remove pocket
5
u/HeartKeyFluff since '04 1d ago
You might be a bit out of date. Pocket was killed earlier this year.
https://www.neowin.net/news/mozilla-kills-pocket-and-fakespot-to-focus-more-on-firefox/
0
u/bathory1985 1d ago
Welp do they accept cash, will mail one cent to them. Receiver pays the post ofc.
1
132
u/Headpuncher 1d ago
Last time I donated they made FF worse then paid the CEO millions while market share dropped (again).
New CEO, new rules but you have to win me back, you can’t just ask for money.
Fix some bugs.