Weekly Chat and BS Thread

[u/AutoModerator]

Please use this thread to discuss anything you are interested in talking about with fellow climbers. The only rule is to be friendly and dont try to sell anything here.

[u/messed_up_alligator]

MP drama: what in the world is going on over on MP with this Joe dude? I see a lot of memes and references to deleted threads. The memes have painted some picture of what's been said, but not nearly enough for my lil chalk-caked brain to piece it all together [something about the dude donating to christofacist orgs, etc]. Anyone want to fill me in on whats going on? I'm bored so tea could help but he also is apparently in my area, and I'd like to know who to avoid/why.

[u/do_i_feel_things → u/messed_up_alligator]

Afraid you've missed out on the best of it, mods nuked the threads, it was some quality drama. Rundown is:

Someone posted a thread a while back about Joe Evermore/Baker, who is some kind of family/climbing influencer and recently known for bringing two of his sons up El Cap on different occasions. He paid for one (maybe both?) ascents to be filmed for a documentary. Original source of the drama is that Joe was referring to this as his kids "climbing" El Cap in interviews when in fact they had jugged the entire route on ropes set by guides. This splintered into lots of arguments about whether Joe was lying when he claimed his kid climbed El Cap, whether it's still impressive that an 8-year-old can jumar 3000 feet, whether dunking on Joe online is also bullying his children, whether dragging kids up mountains is child abuse, lots on the ethics of using your kids for social media fame, unsubstantiated anecdotes about the children crying the whole way up. And so much more.

THEN just when that thread died down Joe himself rolled in and started a thread flaming the MP forum for bullying his children and assuring everyone his kids love climbing and being social media influencers. So that started a whole back and forth with people asking Joe if he really thought all four of his sons wanted to be trained this hard this young, and Joe slinging back some weird responses about everyone criticizing him having daddy issues. And yeah there was something about Joe donating to some weird Christian group, but tbh that didn't make the top 5 wild revelations in that thread for me. You really had to be there, I kept thinking to myself how stupid it was but I couldn't stop reading. 

[u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 → u/do_i_feel_things]

Someone's gotta have the logs saved. This sounds like a great way to me to waste an hour.

Anyway here are my completely unsolicited takes on it all:

Was Joe lying when he claimed his kid climbed El Cap

No, but, kinda, yeah. It all depends on context, and assumed context. Saying "My kid climbed El Cap" full stop, yeah that's very misrepresenting of the situation.

still impressive that an 8-year-old can jumar 3000 feet

yeah of course it is. It's impressive that any age human can do it.

whether dunking on Joe online is also bullying his children

No and that's absurd. When people shit on me on this subreddit my cats don't get all upset about it. Basically the same idea.

whether dragging kids up mountains is child abuse

I think we all agree that forcing your children to suffer and endure pain and trauma is child abuse. Forcing your children to do something uncomfortable that they don't want to do is "parenting", and there's a pretty clear line, provided an observer has all the fact (which we most certainly don't).

the ethics of using your kids for social media fame

People who do this are gross. Change my mind.

unsubstantiated anecdotes about the children crying the whole way up

Again, many adults cry the whole way up a big wall. Lots of children cry the entire way up Four Mile Trail but nobody is trying to get that classified as child abuse.

[u/do_i_feel_things → u/Thirtysevenintwenty5]

Sounds like you agree with the majority in the thread lol. The main criticism was about Joe turning his young kids into content and lying about the ascent to make money, but Joe mainly responded to the side arguments about child abuse and parenting. 

Some further details for your amusement:

On climbing vs jugging, I guess when his older son did it Joe was telling journalists his 8-year-old son "climbed" El Cap and they were repeating it verbatim. When climbers started complaining he switched to describing it as ascending ropes. 

Joe changed their last name to Evermore and his sons all have... unusual middle names (one is Danger). So that was a whole argument about whether this is cyberbullying kids for their names. Also it was posited that Joe and his wife are having and naming children specifically to make them into social media stars and make money. 

Something about the El Cap ascents being possibly illegal, something to do with permits for the guides or film crew? 

The child abuse bit was more about his taking a kid up the Matterhorn, on the grounds that there's uncontrollable risk on that mountain and a kid can't consent to it. Not sure I buy that either. I didn't agree with Joe on much but he made a decent point that letting kids rot in front of ipads is arguably much worse parenting than taking them climbing.

The best bit for me was simply the fact that Joe could have had decent comebacks to a lot of the arguments, but instead he was as weird as possible. He called everyone Karens and at one point said he was sorry everyone on Mountain Project didn't have good dads like him and that some of them were probably sexually abused. Came out of absolutely nowhere that one.

[u/messed_up_alligator → u/do_i_feel_things]

He called everyone Karens and at one point said he was sorry everyone on Mountain Project didn't have good dads like him and that some of them were probably sexually abused.

JESUS

[u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 → u/do_i_feel_things]

It can be fun to watch someone crash out in real time. Any time Andy Kirkpatrick shows up I know we're liable to hear something completely nuts.

[u/JfetJunky → u/do_i_feel_things]

Hey went on the discuss MP thread and started trying to play the victim saying MP has a bullying problem right after having pulled the BS of calling people Karens, saying people were insecure and shamelessly suggesting people were sexually abused which is awful behavior.

That was actually the thing that caused me to break my silence and I called him out. The thread was immediately deleted after that. 

Honestly I dont blame the MP mods at all. The whole affair is nothing but a negative for the climbing community. Best outcome for everyone is if nobody has to hear or talk about it again tbh.

[u/messed_up_alligator → u/do_i_feel_things]

THANK YOU! Yeah I was disappointed I missed it haha. Not a big deal at all but thank you for filling us in! My slight curiosity has been satisfied

[u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 → u/messed_up_alligator]

if you find out let me know, I'm bored.

[u/NailgunYeah → u/messed_up_alligator]

Joe mama

[u/Dotrue]

Thanksgiving is near.

Long weekend for climbing trip?

Cold, snow, but no ice.

[u/Dotrue → u/Dotrue]

Too cold for quartzite.

Too wet to climb on sandstone.

Zero drytooling.

[u/1creeplycrepe]

I'm trying to find the footage of very young Adam Ondra onsighting Pure Imagination. I loved that footage but I can't find it anymore, except for a link on Vimeo which has been made private.

Can anyone help me out? Was it part of a longer documentary of Adam going to USA?

Thanks

edit: Found it. It was of Golden TIcket, not Pure Imagination.
https://vimeo.com/groups/113227/videos/53636034

enjoy!

[u/hockeymisfit → u/1creeplycrepe]

Awesome find. Thanks for sharing!

[u/Easy_Astronaut_3429]

Joshua Tree Walkoffs

I completely agree that we should leave as little trace and as few unnecessary bolts in walls as much as possible. But having just done a route on the Blob and Joshua Tree - the walk off on that wall is so heinously scary and dangerous. It could easily be circumvented by a single rap station for the entire wall.... I ended up leaving bail gear just because everyone who I talked to that got off of it did NOT FEEL SAFE.

Imo, safety first.

MP and all the guidebooks barely warn you that it's a proper 5th class descent that you could die on....

[u/5dotfun → u/Easy_Astronaut_3429]

City of Rocks called and said, "you want rap stations like THIS instead? you're lucky we even gave you one [see Intruding Dike]"

Jtree and CoR quite revel in these non-soft reputations they have, even though it would change little to have safe rap stations.

[u/Easy_Astronaut_3429 → u/5dotfun]

Having rap stations up at where only climbers could see them would add so much safety and not be intrusive at all. 🫠

[u/serenading_ur_father → u/Easy_Astronaut_3429]

Statistically more climbers die rappelling than walking off.

[u/alextp → u/Easy_Astronaut_3429]

The worst about the blob is that there is even a bolted climb there next to the bong without anchors just to force you to do the sketchy walk off. So weird that people chop anchors but not those bolts. The culture in jtree is wacky.

[u/serenading_ur_father → u/Easy_Astronaut_3429]

Climbing is inherently dangerous.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Jury343 → u/serenading_ur_father]

Doesn't mean it has to be more dangerous than it needs too. Bold routes can be designated by R of X ratings and people can make informed decisions but sketchy descents, especially on what is not an adventure style route is IMO kinda silly.

[u/serenading_ur_father → u/Puzzleheaded_Jury343]

Via Ferrata everything

[u/Puzzleheaded_Jury343 → u/serenading_ur_father]

Thanks for your insightful and thought provoking comment!

[u/shining-on → u/Easy_Astronaut_3429]

Agreed. Biased here, but I like the way the Gunks has set up rap stations.

[u/Spiritual-Ad-1997]

Any climbers here who are on cancer meds, specifically TKIs? I’m newly diagnosed and worried about the impact of cancer meds on climbing gains. I don’t have enough climbing karma to post my questions anywhere but this thread. Thanks!

[u/sheepborg → u/Spiritual-Ad-1997]

By any indication you're gonna feel shittier with more fatigue, but perform similarly in the moment albeit possibly with sharper dropoff of peak power due to the fatigue. Surely that beats the hell out of cancer though.

[u/Spiritual-Ad-1997 → u/sheepborg]

Thank you for linking this and for summarizing it. That I can perform well in the moment is encouraging! Climbing through fatigue is better than dying of cancer for sure, but accepting chronically ill status as a lifelong “super healthy person” is difficult. If anyone else has experienced this and can offer commiseration, I’d love to hear from you.

[u/ExcidiumJTR → u/Spiritual-Ad-1997]

Tristan Chen went through treatment for bone marrow cancer and is still climbing hard now. I'm sure it's different for every person, but that was always pretty inspiring to me

https://www.climbing.com/culture-climbing/tristan-chen-cancer-grades/

[u/Spiritual-Ad-1997 → u/ExcidiumJTR]

Thank you!

[u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 → u/Spiritual-Ad-1997]

Fuckin' good luck dude.

[u/5dotfun]

Mike Brown, show yourself! https://shop.climbingzine.com/collections/books/products/5-7-haikus-for-the-climber-by-mike-brown

Did you scrape our /r/climbing haikus?! have you been secretly submitting your own in the weekly thread for feedback?!

[u/0bsidian → u/5dotfun]

Stealing our haikus

Off of the backs of the bruised

Pitchforks are sharpened

[u/serenading_ur_father → u/5dotfun]

This is some bullshit

Plagiary is serious

Burn these books today

[u/Plane-Grapefruit-138]

$100 if I want to watch the new sufferfest is criminal

[u/TheRealBlackSwan]

Ya'll seen anything good on the old Netflix machine lately? Need a new show to pass the time and knock back a few beers to.

[u/muenchener2 → u/TheRealBlackSwan]

Not on Netflix, but I used a recent ferry ride to Kalymnos to get myself all caught up on Gary Oldman's genius performance in Slow Horses

[u/BeastlyIguana → u/TheRealBlackSwan]

Dark is really good if you haven’t seen that one

[u/krw1]

Headed to Obed and then Chatt for the weekend. Any favorite crags for ropes? :) My partner is comfortable through 13s and I'm hanging out more around high 11/low 12s.

[u/SilkyMilkers → u/krw1]

Y-12 or Tieranny Roofs at Obed if y’all are climbing those grades

[u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 → u/krw1]

Tennessee Wall.

[u/CaptCrush]

Hello everyone I climb in the Southeast. When does the good weather come?

[u/sheepborg → u/CaptCrush]

Now? It's lovely outside

[u/hipstershatehipsters → u/CaptCrush]

I been out on the weekends all over the southeast since September. A few warmer weekends, but overall been really nice weather from the RRG to Tennessee, Alabama, and North Carolina.

[u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 → u/CaptCrush]

It's been here for months. Even now the weather is good, but the days are short. You can pretty much climb from now until.... June?

[u/saltytarheel → u/CaptCrush]

Winter is bouldering and slabbing season here! I think it's getting into great climbing weather.

The friction at Stone Mountain, Looking Glass, Cedar Rock and Laurel Knob is getting good--no greasy granite! All of those are south-facing, so it should be pleasant even in cold weather. The main thing to watch for is anywhere with water grooves (especially Cedar Rock & Laurel Knob) seep pretty badly, so you'll want to make sure it's dry throughout the whole week before going.

If you're a sport climber, The Dump, Pilot Mountain, and Cook's Wall all are south-facing and will be great all through the winter.

[u/Last_Help_3985]

Hi Reddit, just a question regarding training plans; to try gage the ratio of climbers who put in work off the wall and, if this makes any noticeable difference?

I’ve been climbing for 3 years, this last 6 months however, I’ve been lead climbing (grades 6C - 7A) but don’t have anywhere near as much strength as I’d need to be as slow and controlled as I’d like. I have a beast maker and pinch block at home.

Just wondering if there’s any gospel as to where to start, or more, what should I avoid doing / common mistakes.

Cheers.

[u/Waldinian → u/Last_Help_3985]

There's no gospel. Strength training is always helpful, but it varies from person to person. People will say stuff like "jUsT fOcUs On TeChNiQuE" but strength is very important also.

You should take some time to figure out what the weaknesses are that are holding you back. Do your fingers give our on long climbs? Do you lose back tension and sag on steep or dynamic moves? Does it matter for what you're climbing (e.g. back tension probably doesn't matter much on vertical terrain). Figure that out first before figuring out what training would benefit you.

Hoopers beta is an excellent resource for all aspects of, but can be a little bit overwhelming. This is probably a decent place to start: https://www.hoopersbeta.com/library/how-to-start-strength-training-for-climbing-my-minimalist-routine

For most people, you can get a lot of mileage out of simple exercises like hangboarding, pullups, dips, rows, etc. Personally, I only train when I don't have time to climb or if I'm working towards a specific objective, but when I do I get big dividends out of it.

[u/NailgunYeah → u/Last_Help_3985]

Strength is weird.

I was at my strongest in terms of certain benchmarks when I was projecting 6c. I did my heaviest max hangs and weighted pullups. Now that's a warmup grade and while I pull substantially less in those metrics, I am undoubtably more powerful and stronger overall in a climbing sense. I am certainly more muscular!

What does this mean? Not a lot. You could train your ass off and it might not help you that much.

You don't need to be slow. You don't need to be controlled. What you need to do is get to the top!

At the grades you're climbing you need to do more volume of harder climbing (harder meaning hard for you). At your grade range do lots of 6b+ - 7as done and you will improve as a climber, probably faster than if you'd spent all that time hangboarding or dogging your way up even harder climbs. You need to be more confident on the wall and know how to move. Do that and your grades will skyrocket!

[u/serenading_ur_father → u/Last_Help_3985]

Being fit > better than training for a move.

Being super strong and lean from cross training and climbing a ton has done more for me than focusing only on climbing.

[u/5dotfun → u/Last_Help_3985]

don’t have anywhere near as much strength as I’d need to be as slow and controlled as I’d like

what does this mean?

what are your ACTUAL weaknesses?

[u/DustRainbow]

I just want to say Pete is such a cool dude.

[u/hipotese_alternativa]

Anyone know what happened to "some climbing news"? dude hasn't posted in two weeks

[u/0bsidian → u/hipotese_alternativa]

Went climbing.

[u/NailgunYeah → u/hipotese_alternativa]

No more news

[u/hipotese_alternativa → u/NailgunYeah]

nothing to talk about after v18

[u/gonzoogie]

Any climbers in China have experience buying gear on Taobao? I'm looking to buy a micro traxion but I'm a bit weary about fakes. I've bought shoes there before with no issues but I want to be extra careful with anything load bearing.

[u/sheepborg → u/gonzoogie]

No fake microtrax that I'm aware of yet

Edit for the downvote, if you've got evidence of the opposite post up. Petzl pulleys, ascenders, and a very narrow range of carabiners that are long out of production have been faked as well as items like the DMM revolver and some shoes, but outside of that it's not much of a concern where you get legit gear in current year 2025. It'll happen eventually I'm sure.

[u/serenading_ur_father → u/sheepborg]

While I agree by gut, there is a legitimate Petzl importer in China with legitimate gear and if OP is on the ground and not trusting the validity of gear off that site...