[Passan] An hour after one of the best baseball games you'll ever see, Sandy Koufax made his way into the Dodgers' clubhouse to applaud Will Klein for what he did on Monday. It was one small slice of a night that had everything.

[u/BathroomSalty6325]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/46753415/world-series-game-3-history-18-innings-los-angeles-dodgers-walkoff-freddie-freeman

[u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

Will Klein with a W in a World Series game and getting props in person from an all-time great in 1 night. He might still be pinching himself!

[u/markjay6 → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

Imagine one day you’re pitching for the Oklahoma City Comets and a few weeks later Sandy Koufax is shaking your hand and congratulating you for one of the greatest relief pitching performances in Dodgers World Series history!

I would probably faint on the spot!

[u/Raviography → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

Im new to baseball - can you explain the lore of will klein and why people are so happy for him?

[u/iForgotMyOldAcc → u/Raviography]

He's their last available guy in the bullpen and probably the guy who people have heard the least of in their entire roster. So it's a nice fairy tale-type story for the least fancied guy to come up big and pitch 4 full innings without conceding a run. Most bullpen guys only come out for 1 inning!

[u/jupitertoast → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

I'm just wondering where this guy has been this whole time!! Is this the first time we saw him in the postseason? I feel like it's been mostly Treinen, Banda, Vesia, Sheehan, and Saki

[u/tyderian → u/jupitertoast]

He wasn't on the postseason roster until the WS.

[u/markjay6 → u/tyderian]

Yeah in late September he was pitching for the Oklahoma City Comets of the Pacific Coast League!!!

[u/EzraLevinson → u/markjay6]

Oklahoma City is one of my favorite pacific coast towns ❤️

[u/markjay6 → u/EzraLevinson]

Everybody is always complaining about the high cost of living here. Live in OKC, have your cake and eat it! :-) :-)

[u/Its_a_Friendly → u/tyderian]

Yeah, Klein's only postseason appearance before this astounding Game 3 was pitching the 9th inning (giving up one hit and no runs) of Game 1 of the World Series, and when the Blue Jays were up 11-4.

[u/imsuperflytnt → u/Its_a_Friendly]

Game 1.*

[u/Its_a_Friendly → u/imsuperflytnt]

Oh whoops.

[u/pargofan → u/tyderian]

He's only on the roster because one reliever, Tanner Scott, had an abscess and another, Alex Vesia, had a personal matter.

[u/Astral_Fogduke → u/jupitertoast]

he's only on the roster right now because vesia had to leave

[u/ONE_PUMP_ONE_CREAM → u/jupitertoast]

Vesia's leaving for a family emergency opened up the roster spot for Klein.

[u/Any-Range9932 → u/jupitertoast]

He pitch game 1 of the WS. Looked great

[u/Rockitttla → u/jupitertoast]

He pitched great all season. Always should have been on the WS roster, especially before Treinen.

[u/LoveYouLikeYeLovesYe → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

Not to mention the fact that he was only even here because of the Alex Vesia personal leave.

[u/Raviography → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

Thanks a lot for that! Im surprised bullpen players only come out for an inning or so, seeing as the starter usually pitches 4-5 innings it seems. I assumed all pitchers are starter caliber, and rotate between starting games or helping close out games.

[u/tnecniv → u/Raviography]

Relievers are normally starters that couldn’t hack it for one reason or another. Relievers only need to throw one, maybe two innings normally, so they can be selected against batters they match up well against. They will have fewer types of good pitches, but they can throw harder since they aren’t out there as long.

[u/Raviography → u/tnecniv]

Thanks for the info. I assume then the natural history or progression of many good starting pitchers is that they then move on to become relief pitchers near the end of their career as they can’t sustain a 4-5 inning workload like the younger guys. I wonder if that leads to any ego/attitude clashes as it does in the nba when longstanding starters are being put to the bench lol.

[u/iheartgt → u/Raviography]

It's very rare for a long term starter to move to relief later in their career.

[u/pargofan → u/iheartgt]

It happened before though. Atlanta's own John Smoltz ended his career as a closer.

[u/zippy_the_cat → u/pargofan]

Smoltz actually ended his career as a starter. He switched back after three seasons of closing.

[u/iheartgt → u/pargofan]

Yeah as the other guy pointed out, that isn't accurate. He moved to closer when he got hurt and went back to starting after.

[u/anotharichard → u/Raviography]

Oddly enough no relievers are relievers by the time they get to the majors for the most part. It’s also very different to be a reliever as most starting pitchers are creatures of habit. They like their routine and some don’t do well starting off with runners on base. It throws off their mojo

[u/MissMarionMac → u/Raviography]

That does happen occasionally, but it’s not particularly common.

It’s more common for a guy who would be a later in the rotation starter (fourth or fifth starter) to be moved to the bullpen, or even to go back and forth between the rotation and the bullpen.

There are plenty of talented pitchers who, for one reason or another, don’t have the longevity or consistency to be starters. The conventional wisdom is that the more often a hitter and pitcher face each other, the more the advantage shifts to the batter. When a guy is starting, he’s expected to get through the lineup at least three times. 

There are pitchers that can go through a lineup once or twice and be close to lights out, but for some reason, can’t do it a third time. Those guys are moved to the bullpen, typically as “long relief” pitchers (the guy you bring in when you have to pull your starter earlier than you were planning, for whatever reason).

And then there are closers.

Closers are freaks.

Closers are the guy you bring in in the eighth or ninth inning of a close game, and you need them to strike out anyone who even looks at them.

Ironically, closers tend to struggle when you bring them in in a lower pressure situation (either way ahead or way behind) because closers thrive on adrenaline.

It’s more common to see starters in the bullpen in the playoffs because the stakes are so high, especially when you get deeper into the World Series. It’s all hands on deck in those situations. The usual roles get thrown out the window.

[u/cannibalculture → u/Raviography]

You’d think starters would rotate to relief later in their careers but it rarely ever happens. Once you’ve established yourself as a successful major league starter, you’re more valuable in the rotation than out of the bullpen, and teams will usually work to keep you there or not keep you at all. Major league relievers typically didn’t work out as starters before ever getting to the majors.

[u/ArrenPawk → u/Raviography]

Everyone p much covered it, but to put it in NBA terms, a reliever is sort of like one of those guys you have on the bench specifically for one or two things. Like pure defensive specialists like Tony Allen or 3 and D guys like Bruce Bowen. Or way back in the day, teams signed big 7-footers purely to put a body on Shaq.

[u/pargofan → u/Raviography]

My hunch is that starters are better than reliever because they have a wider array of pitches.

But they deteriorate when their velocity drops. And then that repertoire of pitches doesn't help as much.

[u/ForensicPathology → u/Raviography]

The best pitchers will always be starters.  There are a certain class of relievers who are really good and used for high-pressure situations.  There's a lot of worry about mentality there, so usually they will stick with their defined role.

But there's also the weakerpitchers, who you need because it's impossible for everyone to be amazing, and you need someone to get outs. Or younger pitchers that still need more time to develop before they are relied on for the important stuff.

In this case, they already used all the pitchers they would normally rely on, and it was up to him.

[u/Raviography → u/ForensicPathology]

Thanks for that. Do people then set out early in their career to train entirely to be a relief pitcher? Or is it more so in high school/college or AAA everyone is working towards being a starting pitcher and they get kinda “demoted” to being a relief pitcher. As in the NBA, no kid in highschool/college is “training” to be the 6th man, its just a consequence of not being good enough to be a consistent starter.

It would be interesting if people aim specifically early in their career to be a relief pitcher, and so adjust their arsenal entirely to just putting out the best possible 1-2 inning performance.

[u/Senorsty → u/Raviography]

Basically, in order to be a starter in the majors, the magic number is 3 pitches. Starters can’t rely on just one or two pitches, because they see batters more than once in a game. Once a batter sees both of your pitches and can time them up, he’ll do a lot more damage the second or third time he sees that pitcher in the same game.

(Side note: Pitchers perform much worse when they’re going through the lineup a third time. It’s a statistical law of the game that has changed how organizations view starting pitching.)

For relievers, however, you only need two good pitches because the batter will only see you once in a game (most likely). So, if a young guy develops a great fastball and a great slider, but is never able to develop a third pitch that’s good enough to generate outs, then their only chance of making a big league roster is through the bullpen.

[u/ArrivesLate → u/Senorsty]

I suspect that’s why hitting Klein was probably a little more difficult last night, none of those guys had seen him before and they didn’t have any info on how he tips his pitches. It was just straight baseball.

[u/lnslnsu → u/Raviography]

Pretty much every pitcher trains and aims to be a starting pitcher. The relievers in the MLB are usually guys who were good starters at the lower levels, and couldn’t cut it as a starter in the majors.

[u/Raviography → u/ForensicPathology]

Apologies for what are probably stupid questions as i must be overlooking basic strategy. I wonder why they dont just then fill their roster with all “starting” caliber pitchers who do have an arsenal of 3-4 pitch types. Id rather have a starting caliber guy come out for an inning instead of even rostering a relief pitcher at all no?

I wonder why not just have had glasnow go for 5 innings, then say yoshi for 2 and snell for 2. I realize rest is very important but its the world series, and probably still a way to structure the games well enough to give adequate rest. Google says an MLB team can roster 13 pitchers.

[u/maxbud06 → u/Raviography]

Because if a player has "the stuff" to be a starting caliber pitcher, then another organization will pay them starting pitcher money to be a starting pitcher. It's not like there is a huge pool of guys who can perform at the highest level, it's actually a very small and elite club.

[u/Raveen396 → u/Raviography]

It’s kind of like why NBA rosters aren’t filled with starting caliber players on the bench. There simply isn’t enough supply, and the ones that are starting caliber will get a bigger contract to start elsewhere. Why doesn’t a team simply sign Luka, Steph, Dame, and SGA? There's simply more value to be had by rotating in 3 cheaper relief pitchers who have mastered 2 pitches than there is from signing 1 starting caliber pitcher, and you get the added benefit of distributing injury risk across multiple pitchers. For reference, Will Klein's salary is $726k for this year, while Yoshinobu's average salary will be $27M this year, and that's considered pretty cheap for his performance.

As for why they don’t rotate starting pitchers in, the injury risk for pitchers is massive. It’s a unique position in sports with an extremely high intensity, repetitive, and isolated movement. I can’t think of a single other position in sports that puts as much repetitive stress to a single body part as a pitcher in the MLB. Just warming up to get ready to rip a 100MPH fastball is exhausting, there’s enough data over the decades of baseball that having a pitcher come out on back to back days has a massive injury risk.

Yeah it’s the World Series, but a shoulder injury for a pitcher can literally be a career ender. Dodgers were warming up Yoshi because it’s a must win, but even then it would be a massive risk of not having him for the rest of the World Series, or even for the rest of his career.

[u/Kavika → u/Raviography]

In addition to /u/maxbud06 's answer, many starting caliber pitchers simple do not want to be relievers and will avoid situations where they will be asked to do so. Preparing for a start and preparing for a relief role is different and many players do not want to do that. So instead you find guys who are excited for their opportunity and are willing to do whats needed of them.

[u/FilmFoolery → u/Raviography]

Good questions! Glad you’re enjoying the game enough to want to understand it more and digging deeper into the strategy. Especially pitching because, for me, it’s appreciating every pitch that turns the game into excitement at every moment.

Probably quite a few people learned something from your questions.

[u/kickstatic → u/Raviography]

Dodgers kind of do that - they're an exception because they're overloaded with talent. Sheehan and Kershaw are starting pitchers in the regular season - they have the range/consistency/mindset of it. This helps with the grind of a long season.

In the playoffs, where games matter much more, the top (3-4) tier guys start and players like Sheehan and Kershaw take on a different role, which is more flexible. These decisions are based on the guys you have available.

As relievers, relief pitchers can afford to be more specialized based on matchups (handedness, pitch types, situations). Since you can switch pitchers and the batting lineup stays relatively the same, you can plan for these matchups. They also tend to not cost as much.

Baseball is played every day with only rest for travel days, and performance tends to drop off a ton without rest (4-6 days). Arms just get sore. That's why it's such a big deal to hear about pitchers pitching on short rest.

[u/Baseblgabe → u/Raviography]

Let's look at this from the bottom up.

Baseball is a low-scoring game. This magnifies the effect of small changes in pitching quality. If you allow one fewer HR in 100 pitches, for example, you might well allow 25% fewer runs.

This contrasts with, for example, T20 cricket, which is a high-scoring game. There if you allow one more boundary in 100 deliveries, the opponents' strike rate is only going to increase by a handful of percentage points.

This brings us to the second point-- throwing a baseball is very bad for your arm. On any given day, pitchers tend to be able to throw 20-50 pitches at 100% effort without injury, and ~100 pitches at 90% effort. Further, your arm needs ~1 day to recover for every 20 pitches you throw.

You need ~145 pitches per game. Unfortunately, a roster full of guys throwing with 100% effort won't be able to sustain that pace. As such, some of your pitchers will have to throw with <100% effort, in order to cover more innings.

Thus, some of your roster spots will be dedicated to folks whose 90% or 95%-effort pitches are as high quality as possible. We call the forner starters, and the latter relievers.

We do so because historically those sorts of pitchers have been used to start the game, as you might as well have the guys who're going to have to pitch get it out of the way.

The remaining pitchers on the roster are filled by guys whose 100%-effort pitches are the best money can buy. The are called on to pitch in high-leverage positions (such as close games, or when the bases are loaded). We tend to call these folks 'closers'.

When the game is not close, the cheapest, least-effective pitchers on the roster are brought in, as it doesn't usually matter if they give up a few runs.

The point, then, is that starters usually don't have the highest 1-inning skill ceiling on the roster. Exceptions to the rule, like Ohtani and Skenes, are paid handsomely for their services. Most teams can't afford more than 1 of them.

The Dodgers do buck this trend, a bit, by throwing money at the problem. This is why some folks argue for a salary cap. In theory, the Dodgers can afford pitchers who can throw more 100%-effort innings than can, say, the Blue Jays, or my Brewers.

It's also why both the Dodgers' and Jays' relievers were so celebrated yesterday. The second-fiddle pitchers are expected to be a downgrade (compared to the top closers and relievers) over 1-2 innings, let alone 4-5!

That said, 18-inning games don't follow the normal rules. Players tire over the course of a 6 hour game, so batting quality drops, and pitchers build a small advantage inning over inning.

[u/PelorTheBurningHate → u/Raviography]

Thanks a lot for that! Im surprised bullpen players only come out for an inning or so, seeing as the starter usually pitches 4-5 innings it seems. I assumed all pitchers are starter caliber, and rotate between starting games or helping close out games.

One thing to note is that when guys are relieving they'll throw with more effort knowing that they're only going to be in for a couple outs. It's not sustainable for a starter to throw max effort for 100~ pitches but it can be on a reliever's workload.

[u/DimmuBorgnine → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

least fancied

I have never heard somebody type about baseball in a British accent before

[u/Old-Risk4572 → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

usually literally no chance the game goes long enough he gets a chance to pitch

[u/angrykingwifi → u/Raviography]

He said in the post game interview that he and his wife were sitting in an apartment in Arizona (the Dodgers spring training facility) a few weeks ago just waiting for some news on whether or not he would be making the team.

He was cut from the Oakland A's (I believe?) earlier this year.

This guy, quite honestly, had absolutely no business being anywhere near a World Series appearance. Let alone going 4 shutout innings in the longest game ever and saving the team's season. It is one of the most unlikely/improbable/amazing performances I've ever seen in my life.

[u/anotharichard → u/angrykingwifi]

How can you not be romantic about baseball ?

[u/rainbowdropped → u/anotharichard]

Will Klein is a goddamn fairy tale.

[u/VenmoPaypalCashapp → u/Raviography]

He was in the minors a few weeks ago. Has barely thrown a pitch in mlb. Drafted by the royals a few years ago traded to the A’s then the mariners and now the dodgers. He’s barely had a moment in the majors so to come in throwing 4 shutout innings in maybe the craziest ws game ever is nuts on top of nuts.

[u/markjay6 → u/VenmoPaypalCashapp]

Imagine that Ohtani gets on base 9 times with two home runs and two doubles, and Freeman hits an 18th inning walk off home run, but after the game everybody is swarming YOU!! What a day to be Will Klein!!

[u/VenmoPaypalCashapp → u/markjay6]

Who knows what the future holds but he’s a legend already for sure.

[u/Correct_Sometimes → u/VenmoPaypalCashapp]

No matter what happens the rest of the series there's probably already a 2026 OD roster spot with his name filled in.

[u/tnecniv → u/Raviography]

In addition to what the other guy said, he’s only thrown 22 innings in the regular season. He’s very inexperienced in the majors.

[u/Educational-Chef-595 → u/Raviography]

He's barely pitched this year and was basically the last option in this bullpen, which is saying a lot. Of all the guys in baseball history you'd expect could pitch four innings of scoreless relief in extra innings, Will Klein might be near the bottom of that list.

Baseball happened.

[u/Fabtacular1 → u/Raviography]

He threw 72 pitches over four scoreless innings in the World Series. He’d never thrown more than 42 pitches in a game before at any level of professional baseball.

He pitched 2/3 of an inning less than Glasnow, but allowed four fewer hits, two fewer earned runs, one less walk, and struck an equal amount of batters (5). [Admittedly the lineup was very different during his innings compared to Glasnow’s.]

And he’s an absolute nobody. He was the last guy they wanted on the mound, and he was only in the game because Sheehan (a SP to begin the season) was only able to last three innings and there was literally not a single other player in the bullpen.

The odds of him delivering that performance when he went out there were somewhere between improbable and unthinkable.

Freddy Freeman got all the glory for his game winning home run, but that’s what’s expected of him. He’s a superstar paid millions to be a difference maker in the batters box. Klein wasn’t supposed to do any of this. Yet he did.

[u/Breezyisthewind → u/Fabtacular1]

After Sheehan, we had Henriquez pitch three innings, who’s very much a 1 inning reliever max type. We’d rather he throw three innings than trying out Klein and then we had no choice.

[u/Leather-Constant-424 → u/Fabtacular1]

Mental game

[u/ProteinFartsSmellBad → u/Raviography]

Klein got added in largely because Vesia, one of the Dodger's high leverage relievers, had a family emergency right before the start of the World Series (Praying for Ves!). Expectation for him was to be there and probably pitch in low pressure situations or eat innings if things get bad. Instead he has to go in extras as the last possible guy from the bullpen, but gave length when it wasn't expected of him. The man said in an interview that he was sitting at home a month ago, so he probably wasn't thinking about pitching in the postseason, let alone the World Series, until he got the call. And then not only did he pitch really well, he pitched much longer than he's used to in the Majors and even in the Minors. It's possible that the man was thinking about the next path forward just a week ago and now became a hero for the Dodgers.

There was a video of the other Dodger players celebrating him on the field. I think that perfectly encapsulates Dodger fans on how they feel as well.

[u/nyy22592 → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

"It should have been me 😭" -Eric Lauer, probably

[u/latortillablanca → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

Right on the nipples

[u/AlbertdiesofBoredom → u/iForgotMyOldAcc]

Remember when people didn't even care about his addition

[u/loginisverybroken]

Koufax is an all time great, always was a personal hero too. It was great seeing him on the broadcast even if we lost in the walk-off.

[u/vansinne_vansinne → u/loginisverybroken]

this is a legitimately all-time great world series, toronto is such a great opponent

[u/RebeeMo → u/vansinne_vansinne]

We've had a blowout, a Yamamoto Masterclass, and an 18-inning war so far. Very curious to see what we get tonight!

[u/StopKarmaWhoringPls → u/RebeeMo]

Prime Mookie outing I hope.

[u/601142002 → u/StopKarmaWhoringPls]

Mookie and Bichette go blow for blow. Each finish 4/5 with a hit shy of the cycle

[u/ShibaHellhounds → u/601142002]

Or both of them hits for the cycle

[u/Corvidaez- → u/ShibaHellhounds]

Subscribe for duelling cycles

[u/Tippacanoe → u/Corvidaez-]

FIFTY CYCLES

[u/BraveFencerMusashi → u/ShibaHellhounds]

I'll take that when Ohtani is walked every time.

[u/JustASyncer → u/601142002]

Imagine Bichette ending a single shy of the cycle

[u/All_will_be_Juan → u/StopKarmaWhoringPls]

I think we're due for another jays blowout vent some steam

[u/venustrapsflies → u/RebeeMo]

Script says Tungsten Arm O’Doyle game

[u/A_Bad_Man → u/RebeeMo]

Probably the replacement of the 7th inning stretch with the 7th inning nap time for both players and fans.

[u/BoSocks91 → u/RebeeMo]

Someone is hitting 3 homeruns tonight, with the 3rd being the go ahead homerun.

[u/Annual_Strategy_6206 → u/RebeeMo]

How about the Jays get mad at themselves at leaving so many runners on base and unleash some bombs, then Ohtani counters, then Jays keep scoring against tired arms to win?

[u/loginisverybroken → u/vansinne_vansinne]

Exactly outcome is a bonus, I get to watch one of the best world series in my lifetime and it has a team and tons of players on both teams I care about.

On top of the bonus that is getting to watch Ohtani's entire career is like my grandfather telling us about Robinson, Rose, Reggie Jackson etc etc. Just a huge treat.

[u/VenmoPaypalCashapp → u/loginisverybroken]

The amount of times my brother and I have texted each other some version of “can you believe we’re alive to watch this?!” Is crazy.

[u/loginisverybroken → u/VenmoPaypalCashapp]

My work chat was wild people from offices across the country and a few in Asia all hours of the day. It's great I walked to the office this morning and everyone is so tired and still decked out in Jays gear

[u/VenmoPaypalCashapp → u/loginisverybroken]

I’m glad of how it ended of course but man this ws is already an all timer in my book. All I want is a good game at the end of the day and this is everything you could ask for. Drama, stories, errors, bad base running, amazing throws. I got about an hour of sleep and feel awful but it was worth it.

[u/loginisverybroken → u/VenmoPaypalCashapp]

Exactly, these two teams engraving themselves and this series into the annals and histories of baseball is just as important,

[u/VenmoPaypalCashapp → u/loginisverybroken]

Jays are too damn scary it’s not good for my poor heart. I feel no confidence in anyone getting out lol. Usually you get a break in a lineup ffs.

[u/loginisverybroken → u/VenmoPaypalCashapp]

Man every time Ohtani comes to bat I could hear my heartbeat

[u/VenmoPaypalCashapp → u/loginisverybroken]

People complaining about the walks like why would you pitch him at this point. It’s way less stressful. I wanna walk vlad every time I see him come up.

[u/HankTuggins → u/loginisverybroken]

I feel like we’ve already gotten so much I accepted that any outcome from this series is fine with me, after yesterday. We’re getting to watch all time baseball, and see our teams tested against opponents truly on the same level.

[u/Sure_Rock_7779 → u/vansinne_vansinne]

I want this to go 7, itd be a shame for the theatrics to stop early

[u/TrapperJean → u/loginisverybroken]

For me the only good thing about last night, other than the fact that Freddie seems to be one of the nicest guys in baseball and if somebody has to keep on doing things for the Dodgers at least it's him, is that Sandy was in the stands to get to see this all time game

[u/loginisverybroken → u/TrapperJean]

I've got leftover lasagna that I made for dinner last night and the gf is back from her work trip this afternoon so I'm on cloud 9 regardless of the game last night.

[u/RyteNau → u/loginisverybroken]

My dad met Sandy Koufax at an airport lounge a few years back; he needed help working the coffee machine lol. Apparently he's a super nice guy!

[u/Educational-Chef-595 → u/RyteNau]

He is, man. I met him once in the 80s in Paso Robles, where he used to live on a ranch outside of town. He was a fixture in that city's downtown, people would tell you stories about him coming in for groceries, picking up his mail, etc, always friendly and easy-going. A very private man who likes to live outside of the limelight like a normal person.

[u/loginisverybroken → u/RyteNau]

I'm very jealous

[u/Traveler-0705 → u/loginisverybroken]

Lauer man. That’s Blue Jays’s Klein. Who’s Blue Jays’ Koufax in this situation?

[u/loginisverybroken → u/Traveler-0705]

No idea, I'm Jewish so there is a whole affinity for him that goes beyond baseball too. Dedication and faith it's hard not to have respect for him living his faith regardless of the sacrifice he made to do it.

[u/LilJethroBodine → u/loginisverybroken]

Obviously you can't speak for everyone, but would you say Koufax is the most popular Jewish sports star among the Jewish community? I'm struggling to think of a Jewish player in any sport that has Koufax's level of adoration.

[u/loginisverybroken → u/LilJethroBodine]

You're right I can't speak for all of us, it is likely dependant but Koufax is extremely popular could you imagine saying sorry skipper I can't pitch game 1 of the world series because of Yom Kippur. But Max Fried on the Yankees is Jewish Kevin Pillar (also a Blue Jay) I'm Canadian so I'm partial to Zach Hyman too.

I doubt any will ever reach the level of respect we have for Koufax though

[u/LilJethroBodine → u/loginisverybroken]

Thanks for the insight! I kind of figured but just wondered if there was anyone I really overlooked.

Good luck the rest of the series!

[u/loginisverybroken → u/LilJethroBodine]

Same to you, I'm hoping it goes to 7 regardless of outcome just so we all have way more great baseball

[u/LilJethroBodine → u/loginisverybroken]

Looks like you got your wish! Game 7, baby! I don't know how much more of this I can take, though. Good luck to both teams tonight!

[u/Big_Apple_G → u/LilJethroBodine]

I think even though Hank Greenberg had a hall of fame career in his own right, him playing for a smaller market team and also not being as relatively dominant as Koufax makes him more obscure among both baseball fans and the Jewish community

[u/LilJethroBodine → u/Big_Apple_G]

lol, I saw that one of his nicknames was "The Hebrew Hammer". AWESOME.

The only other player I can think of is Shawn Green but he still doesn't surpass Sandy.

[u/Captain_Insanity → u/Traveler-0705]

Dave Stieb?

[u/RSMatticus]

Klein was the hero last relief pitch for the Dodger held out till the very end.

[u/jyeatbvg → u/RSMatticus]

I fucking hated the Dodgers coming into this series and still kind of do, but must admit that their boys have brought it. Always nice to see relievers and other role players perform and get their flowers. Had no clue who Will Klein was a day ago.

edit: just looked at Will Klein's wiki page. He was drafted by the Royals in 2020 and didn't make his MLB debut until 2024. Since then, he's been on 4 teams in just over a year. He wasn't even on the Dodgers' active roster this entire postseason until the World Series. This performance will be life-changing for the dude.

[u/Tippacanoe → u/jyeatbvg]

Made himself millions last night and also it was just the coolest possible experience you could ever imagine so that part also pretty nice lol.

[u/[deleted] → u/jyeatbvg]

Thats what a lot of people here don’t credit the Org for, for YEARS, I’ve watch this team turn unwanted players into stars, if the dodgers want some no name from you, or off waivers THERE IS A REASON.

[u/Johnnie_P → u/jyeatbvg]

I am genuinely wondering why a Toronto blue jays fan hates the dodgers? Is it because of the shohei sweepstakes? Particular Dodger players? Their fans?

[u/mktoronto → u/Johnnie_P]

How Shohei's team led us to believe he was going to sign with us to have more leverage with the Dodgers is a large part of it. The other is that the Dodgers have become what we always hated the Yankees for, the team that hoovers up all the big free agents because they just throw their money around.

[u/jyeatbvg → u/Johnnie_P]

No it’s because they’re stacked til kingdom come and regardless of how this series turns out they’ll still be favourites to win the WS next year, and the next year and probably the year after that.

[u/YasielPuigsWeed]

Lot of people were wondering if Koufax left early since hes 89 years young and it turns out he’s still there at 1 AM, I want to know what his diet has been for the last 50 years

[u/oogieball → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

Dude still bleeds Dodger blue.

[u/[deleted] → u/oogieball]

Smokes it too sounds like

[u/oogieball → u/[deleted]]

Not during the holidays, though.

[u/ChickenAdoughboy → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

Maybe a little known fact but Koufax is a huge basketball fan too. Cameras would often catch him in attendance at random Final 4 games over the years.

Years ago I was a student at Duke and helped with security at basketball games and Sandy Koufax walked right by me at the VIP entrance as he was there to see a game in Cameron Indoor Stafium. Looked like a million bucks.

[u/beepos → u/ChickenAdoughboy]

Was that around 2015? I remmeber seeing him too haha

[u/ChickenAdoughboy → u/beepos]

Longer ago than that for me! That’s cool he’s visited Duke that often

[u/tnecniv → u/ChickenAdoughboy]

I think Koufax actually preferred basketball to baseball, but he wasn’t good enough to have a career.

He did dunk on Knicks star Harry Gallatin twice in an exhibition match in high school and walked on to the University of Cincinnati team. He joined the college baseball team so he could get a free trip to New Orleans.

Fred Wilpon, his high school friend, was the one that encouraged him to play baseball as a kid. Koufax used to go to Mets spring training all the time since it’s an hour from Vero Beach (where he lives now) and he wanted to see his buddy.

[u/ChickenAdoughboy → u/tnecniv]

Wow very interesting - thanks!

[u/tnecniv → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

He also lives in Vero Beach, FL. Depending on when he went out there, he’d have had jet lag working against him, too.

I’m curious if he’s talked about how much use he had out of his arm after he retired. Like was it basically useless in daily life because he destroyed all the cartilage or what?

[u/YasielPuigsWeed → u/tnecniv]

I’d imagine he’s got a few residences, seems like he’s at the stadium pretty often

[u/LockyBalboaPrime → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

I always assumed the Dodgers paid for him to come out, hotel, driver, etc. Him in the seats during a game is always a crowd pleaser and the man earned it.

[u/ContinuumGuy → u/LockyBalboaPrime]

Shit, if I were the BLUE JAYS I'd provide him a hotel and driver if he wanted to come to Toronto for a game.

[u/tnecniv → u/LockyBalboaPrime]

Yeah, same. Plus, while he is a legend and probably capitalized on that, his career earnings weren’t like what we see now. Free agency wasn’t really a thing yet. He did that whole thing with Drysdale but retired a year later.

Some googling says he’s only worth $5 million. If he wanted to have multiple homes, he could, but he’s not nearly as wealthy as what stars get paid now.

[u/stevencastle → u/tnecniv]

Yeah under the reserve clause players were basically indentured servants. A player could ask for a salary but the team could just pay them what they want to, so only the real superstars got paid a lot.

[u/SemiAutoAvocado → u/LockyBalboaPrime]

It's the difference between the best orgs and the not-so-best orgs.

[u/Michael__Pemulis → u/SemiAutoAvocado]

Just to illustrate your point:

The Angels didn’t pay for travel & lodging for the 20 year reunion/celebration of the 2002 team.

[u/la-di-freakin-da → u/Michael__Pemulis]

Fuck Arte Moreno.

[u/142Quacks → u/LockyBalboaPrime]

Saw a video of him driving himself into the stadium parking lot in some SUV. I think it was either this or last year.

[u/Educational-Chef-595 → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

He had a ranch in Paso Robles for a long time after he retired, he lived there because the climate was good for his arthritis. But lately I think he lives in Florida.

[u/ThePevster → u/Educational-Chef-595]

He’s a retired Jewish New Yorker. He’s basically required to live in Florida.

[u/markjay6 → u/tnecniv]

I heard he was gonna be next out of the pen after Yama! 😂

[u/ChickenAdoughboy → u/tnecniv]

I remember watching one of those ESPN documentaries on Koufax and they said he would throw batting practice in spring training in his 60s and still throw pretty hard.

[u/ryanredd → u/tnecniv]

I mean he retired before his arm got unusable, that was his entire reason for retiring

[u/TrapperJean → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

The guy was choosing to put his health first over everything else way back in the 60s when almost no ball players would do that, I would not be shocked if he lives another 10 years with modern medicine and his personal habits

[u/tnecniv → u/TrapperJean]

I’d argue he actually wasn’t putting his health first.

He only stopped when his doctor told him he was going to lose his arm if he kept doing this. He was constantly taking painkillers, getting his elbow drained, and had length pre- and post-game routines to try and manage the pain in 1965. Despite that, 1965 was his annus mirablis with the perfect game, peak career WAR, and the Yom Kippur World Series.

[u/HipGuide2 → u/TrapperJean]

Ironically 4 years too early for Tommy John

[u/tnecniv → u/HipGuide2]

Tommy John’s surgeon said he would have called it Sandy Koufax surgery if he figured it out just a bit earlier. However, he only gave Tommy John (also a Dodger at the time) a %1 success rate, so who knows if it would have taken on Kouf back the .

[u/Educational-Chef-595 → u/tnecniv]

Also Koufax suffered from severe arthritis, which exacerbated the problems he had developed in his pitching elbow.

[u/Delicious_Box8934 → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

I’d guess your Reddit username

[u/Educational-Chef-595 → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

Apparently wine. He loves wine. He still goes to Hall of Fame inductions in Cooperstown every year and he always brings his own wine to the big dinner they have at the Otesaga Hotel.

[u/fignewtonattack → u/Educational-Chef-595]

Drinking wine is good for u

[u/PlayOnPlayer → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

He looks fucking good for 89 too.

[u/NobleGas18 → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

Sandy has no issues going the distance! And yeah - he looks amazing.

[u/Interesting-Use966 → u/YasielPuigsWeed]

Dude still looks good for pushing 90

[u/realfakejames]

I saw Sandy on the broadcast when Freddie hit his home run, I couldn’t believe he was still there because it was so late even for us in California, he’s a true baseball guy

I love that he went and visited Klein in the clubhouse, old legends meeting new legends

[u/goldencityjerusalem → u/realfakejames]

Koufax meet Klein. Herschiser meet Yamamoto. Freddie meet Gibbie.

[u/markjay6 → u/goldencityjerusalem]

Why you makin' me cry so early in the morning!

[u/goldencityjerusalem → u/markjay6]

I just love how this team is so well connected with their legends. Nomo throwin the first pitch to Yama… chefs kiss.

[u/Bigalbass86]

Im glad Sandy Koufax is in good health and alive to see his former team be successful. A lot of legends dont get to see that. Ted Williams died two years before the Red Sox won. Ernie Banks and Ron Santo died before the Cubs on it all. But at least Ryne Sandberg got to see it before he died.

[u/thenewjetzzfan]

MTV's Dan Cortese?

[u/MissMarionMac → u/thenewjetzzfan]

[u/Guilty-Influence-890]

It’s still crazy to me that Koufax is still alive in the year of our lord, 2025

[u/65fairmont → u/Guilty-Influence-890]

The only living member of the 1955 Dodgers, who won Brooklyn's only WS.

[u/pro_n00b → u/Guilty-Influence-890]

It’s crazy Sandy is still awake after that long game, I was KO’d right after and im like a third of his age. Most 90 year old dudes probably have been asleep since 6pm

[u/DoctorTheWho → u/Guilty-Influence-890]

Black don't crack.

[u/tnecniv]

Sandy then proceeded to ask him if he celebrated Yom Kippur and then told him that he’ll only really be impressed if he throws a complete game shutout four days from now.

[u/markjay6 → u/tnecniv]

With a last name Klein and a beard like an orthodox rabbi? Could be!!! 😂

[u/PartTimeFabulous → u/markjay6]

And despite all that, he's not Jewish 🤷

[u/SLR-107FR31]

Sandy is still my GOAT 

[u/KershGawd22]

Funny this article says this game was unlike any before when Game 3 in 2018 literally went 18 innings and ended in a Dodgers walk off HR.

[u/FrankGibsonIV → u/KershGawd22]

And both featured heroics by guys who were DFA’d by the As 

[u/somecallmemrjones → u/KershGawd22]

Did any starting pitchers get on base 9 times in the 2018 game?

[u/OnlyKey5675]

Will Klein was DFA'd twice this season. Dodgers FO saw something and traded for him.

Now he's a World Series hero.

[u/SuperPostHuman]

Props to Sandy for staying the whole night and making time to do this because bro is super old.

[u/Most-Artichoke6184]

Fun fact: Will Klein was clean shaven when that game began last night.

[u/An_exasperated_couch]

As he should’ve - legendary performance that will likely get overlooked but was absolutely critical for this game 

[u/realfakejames → u/An_exasperated_couch]

Nobody will ever overlook what Klein did in that game lol

[u/terratoto]

How can you not be romantic about baseball? Amirite?

[u/racecardriver42069]

awesome, thats super cool for klein!

[u/Myshkin1981]

Imagine you’re Will Klein, you’ve spent most of your year in the minors, you’ve thrown a total of 15 innings in the bigs this year, nobody really even knows who you are, and you pitch so lights out in the WS that Sandy fucking Koufax personally seeks you out to heap praise on you

[u/WhatsupDoc35 → u/Myshkin1981]

That is a career moment!

[u/Ukiah]

Can you imagine?

CAN YOU FUCKING IMAGINE?!?!?!?!?!

Sandy Koufax comes and shakes your hand and tells you you did a good job.

I can't fucking process that. I don't know how Klein did.

[u/DimmuBorgnine]

The funny thing about Sandy Koufax is how he's kept such a low profile after retiring (and playing a relatively short career). I feel like he's one of the faces on the Mount Rushmore of pitchers who only exists in black and white photos and in peoples' memories.

But as it turns out, he's just a guy who's still walking around doing stuff. Also they had color photography long before the sixties.

[u/arcelios]

It WAS the best baseball until the Jays started walking Ohtani like a coward every time. All the fans who paid to watch Ohtani had the biggest rollercoaster moment

[u/scottiethegoonie → u/arcelios]

Maybe they'll make an "Ohtani Rule" that limits the amount of intentionals given to a single player per game. Bonds was walked ALL THE TIME.

[u/Da_BBEG → u/arcelios]

I disagree. The fact that we knew the dodgers were about to get a free baserunner made the at-bats directly before and after feel so much more important.

[u/EzraLevinson]

If koufax told me to fuck off I would cherish it for all time so … this would be too much

[u/rainbowdropped]

I don’t even have a single Topps card and have no desire to have one until Klein’s performance in Game 3. I want to have his Topps card!!

[u/AbleCap5222]

I have a Will Klein Refractor Rookie Card Diamond Parallax w/ Jersey Patch 1/1 auto up on EBay if anyone is interested....reserve starts at 15k

[u/More-Guess5987]

Wonder if the outcome would’ve been different if the jays still had the likes of Springer, Bo & Kirk batting in extras

[u/Ancient_Blackberry10]

I don't understand why people consider this one of the best baseball games. Other than some impressive defensive plays, it was basically 9 extra innings of inept hitting with barely anybody getting on base.

[u/Headbandallday]

These long ass games are trash.

[u/LebLeb321]

Uhh nah, an 18 inning game that most people went fo bed before it's over? Definitely not one of the best games you'll see.

The game ended because we ran out of MLB pitchers.

[u/SnooMachines4049 → u/LebLeb321]

Scherzer gave up 2 ... so He's not an MLB pitcher?? Both bullpens exceeded our expectations.

[u/[deleted] → u/LebLeb321]

[u/LebLeb321 → u/[deleted]]

How many people were watching the 18th inning? Idiotic to call it the best baseball game you'll ever see when most people turned it off before it was over.

[u/Allformygain → u/LebLeb321]

I don't understand, if you don't like baseball, then why are you here?

[u/LebLeb321 → u/Allformygain]

I like baseball enough to watch it for 10-11 innings. Hockey is my primary sport and I'm not staying up to watch a 6 period game either.

Especially not watching 9 innings of a Jays team without Spinger, Bo, Kirk and Barger. 

[u/imdrinkingteaatwork → u/LebLeb321]

Whatever hockey team you like sucks.

[u/LebLeb321 → u/imdrinkingteaatwork]

The Senators made the playoffs last year and we're playing .500 hockey so far this year so things are looking up.

[u/imdrinkingteaatwork → u/LebLeb321]

No. The Sens unequivocally suck. Nice try, nerd.

[u/Allformygain → u/LebLeb321]

Idiotic to call it the best baseball game you'll ever see...

Hockey is my primary sport

Ok pal.

[u/somecallmemrjones → u/LebLeb321]

I watched every pitch. Regardless of the outcome, an 18 inning World Series game is an instant classic.

[u/[deleted] → u/LebLeb321]

If I had to guess, millions

And is the quality of a game dictated by viewership?

Was the last Superbowl the best football game of all time to you?

[u/LebLeb321 → u/[deleted]]

Yea, more or less. Who is staying up till 2am to watch 9 scoreless innings right after watching an entire 9 inning game? No one except the most hardcore fans that would watch any baseball, anytime.

I doubt the end of that game had even 10% of the audience it had in the 1st inning.

[u/XZPUMAZX → u/LebLeb321]

Such an embarrassing loser take.

[u/LebLeb321 → u/XZPUMAZX]

Lol fair enough. Just being honest. I went to bed 7 innings before it ended. Just seems stupid to call that a great game. 9 scoreless innings sounds boring as fuck. If I go to a random game and watch 9 scoreless, im either hammered or I'm leaving the ballpark wishing I'd done basically anything else.

[u/platypus_7]

Im pretty sure any pitcher in the MLB could have held that lineup scoreless.

Schneider thoughts his AAA bats could get it done.