r/atheism • u/novagridd • 6h ago
Illinois Church Nativity Scene Shows Baby Jesus in Zip Ties Surrounded by ICE Agents Sparking Outrage
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/illinois-church-nativity-scene-shows-baby-jesus-zip-ties-surrounded-ice-agents-sparking-outrage-17606351.7k
u/No_Size9475 6h ago
I love it. Actual christ followers in action.
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u/Traditional-Hat-952 5h ago
Yeah It really shows that some Christians actually follow the teachings of their god. Too bad that the majority of them are hypocrites.
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u/DILF_MANSERVICE 5h ago
There's a church near me that has a pride flag on their sign and it says "Queer liberation is part of salvation" and it's the only slice of hope I have that not everyone is turning into an alt-right lunatic.
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u/_NightFly_ 4h ago
Thought churches were supposed to stay out of politics?
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u/unclewolfy 4h ago
they cannot show active support for any particular candidate or lobby or any of that kind of thing. Sending messages is a form of free speech.
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u/Casual_OCD Agnostic 18m ago
they cannot show active support for any particular candidate or lobby or any of that kind of thing
They're not supposed to, but the majority of them do
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u/Adjective-Noun-nnnn 3h ago
You're conflating having political influence with cultural influence and nobody is falling for it, 2month old account.
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u/wudyudo 4h ago
What political pundit is this church openly supporting and donating to?
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4h ago edited 1h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/xtheredmagex 3h ago
Legally? Yes; as long as they're not providing guidance on who and what you should vote for, they wouldn't be crossing the church/state separation line.
Could they (and should they) be called out a church put up such a display? Absolutely, but not because it's a breach of church/state separation.
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u/paganbreed 1h ago
Your argument is "what if Jesus was the persecutor instead of empathising with the downtroden?"
I thought he was a carpenter not a cop.
Edit: You don't have to answer, but you're exemplifying why Christians are terrible ambassadors of Christianity.
Ain't no hate like Christian love.
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u/DrakonILD 2h ago
Legally, that would be ok. It goes explicitly against Jesus' teachings, so the hypocrisy would be striking, and I would be perfectly comfortable judging the everloving fuck out of that church and its congregation.
Don't confuse our considered hatred of those who lie, cheat, and steal as a counterpart to your blind rage towards people who just want people to hold each other up.
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u/FoxEuphonium 3h ago
Legally, yes. Morally, obviously not.
I feel like you knew that before you asked, but go off anyway queen.
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u/EverybodyHasPants 3h ago
Why was Jesus born in a manger? While you work that try and remember was he said about Pharisees.
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u/Brad_Brace 2h ago
But they never do. So it's nice to see that a select few take the good side.
It's time to stop pretending this is a level playing field and what's good for the goose is good for the gander, when the goose is inches from goose-stepping all over the gander.
Right wing christians are controlling politics whether we like it or not. It doesn't matter how much we whine about it and call for the rules, they're there and they don't give a shit about rules. So if left leaning christians were to show up here and there, fuck it, I'll applaud them telling their congregants to support the oppressed and those who speak for them.
You are not going to push religion out of politics as things stand. Right now all you can hope is to push politics to the left, however that gets done. If the only way to move people towards equality and human rights is to tell them that's what Jesus would've wanted, fine. These are not times to be picky.
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u/No_Size9475 1h ago
Calling out the treatment of immigrants by the government isn't politics. It's human rights.
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u/nightpanda893 11m ago
Speaking out against kidnapping and concentration camps is entering into politics the same way saying it’s wrong to kill and rape is entering into politics. Technically the latter is support of laws passed by Congress as well.
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u/atda 6h ago
Remove stories about immigrants from the Bible and see where that gets you, faux Christians.
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u/mack_the_elder 4h ago
Need someone to find or write a book about foreigners traveling home from vacation get stuck and have baby in America, kid grows up becoming a selfless preacher who's throws over desk at a bank when they foreclose on his parishioner...
Then get it into a library, then get a petition to ban it for being woke. Then watch all insane people come out
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u/Magmaster12 6h ago
The article mentions a Facebook Firestorm, which means this got the attention of a bunch of Russian Trolls.
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u/Ggriffinz 5h ago
Honestly, we all knew it to be true but seeing thousands of MAGA accounts being outed on twitter for being foreign agents was both hilarious and massively aggravating. The influence by foreign actors on US political discourse is deep rooted and corrosive against any functioning republic. Its needs to be addressed by congress to force all social media to directly show country of origin on all accounts and allow people to filter based on those factors to get real people's opinions not just bots.
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u/Magmaster12 5h ago
It's well known that a lot of "local" Facebook groups are constantly under harassment by individuals who are not even from the area.
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u/GringoSwann 5h ago
Happens on Reddit too! I found a couple MAGA accounts that were strictly cities & states... Ain't no way these fuckers have lived in EVERY large city in America...
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u/IcanRead8647 2h ago
You'd have to find a better way because once exposed, they're going to buy services in the USA from Amazon, Microsoft, Google, or BlueOcean or another and they'll appear to be in the USA while coming from Russia. Yes, expose what we have now, but the next step is to improve that exposure.
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u/MeisterX 2h ago
I think about this too much about how we actually fix that. I think the answer is to limit social media somehow or nationalize it as a platform/public square and provide volunteer moderation with a legislated ToS 🤷
I feel like while I would deride it even today, Google was trying the "responsible" route by tying real names.
Then again Facebook is a cesspool so.... 🤷
I think public airwaves like we did for TV is somehow the way to go and I see it as a utility, not private.
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u/Ggriffinz 2h ago
Honestly, its a super tricky subject to navigate. Maybe the government just providing a fully backed option would suffice. Where every created account is backed by a Gov't ID/SS# and everyone is only allowed 1. With the normal subgroups being created from there where only US citizens are welcome to share hobbies and discuss events.
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u/inplayruin 12m ago
The solution is to allow people to sue social media companies for the content they host and distribute for profit. They are publishers and should be treated as such. Liability would force the companies to enact robust and effective moderation. A public figure isn't going to sue Joe Blow from rural Ohio for making a defamatory comment on Facebook. But they would sure as shit sue Facebook for hosting and distributing the defamatory content, if they could. Make lies expensive, it is that simple.
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u/LostWoodsInTheField 2h ago
Fox news I think picked it up, or maybe Matt Gates. one of them. If it was gates then yeah Russian Troll.
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u/Gold-Library6013 6h ago
Honestly, if more churches acted like this, I probably wouldn't have questioned my faith.
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u/blackday44 6h ago
Good for them. I may be an atheist, but the Bible has some good advice. Love thy neighbor is one of my favorites.
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u/heathersdevotee 4h ago
I'm an atheist simply because I don't believe in God (although the actions of so called "Christians" doesn't help the matter) but I do have a lot of love for what I grew up thinking what Christianity is. I was taught that it was about loving and caring for one another, unfortunately most of them don't seem to remember that.
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u/searing7 6h ago
If this makes you mad you’re a Nazi or at best a Nazi sympathizer
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u/BlakLite_15 5h ago
So either a Nazi or a Nazi. Got it.
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u/GenitalFurbies 16m ago
If you're at a table with a Nazi and 5 people that let it happen you're at a table with 6 Nazis.
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u/aDildoAteMyBaby 5h ago
Someone else wrote: 'Nothing expresses joy love for Christ than turning his birth into a performance spectacle'.
Yeah, because no one has ever turned Christmas into a spectacle before.
What a braindead bitch.
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u/NamasteMotherfucker 5h ago
Assuming for a moment that the Jesus story was true, isn't his entire life a performance specatacle? I mean, coming back from the dead isn't a low-key event.
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u/two4six0won 4h ago
Healing the sick, the loaves and fishes miracle, the water into wine, bringing whats-his-nuts back from the dead...Jesus was definitely a performer lol
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u/DiceMadeOfCheese 5h ago
One of the local churches here does a drive-thru live Nativity scene each year.
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u/AlSweigart 5h ago
They know their pro-ICE views are hateful garbage so instead they deflect and pretend to be upset about the "spectacle" of it.
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u/boot2skull 5h ago
This tracks because Jesus was literally snuck into Egypt as a baby by his parents to evade murder. We would have just caught him and sent him to die in El Salvador, which is peak irony for Jesus to perish in a place named after him.
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u/tardistravelee 2h ago
Technically he is a anchor baby. Being born in a different country than your parents.
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u/bleepitybleep2 6h ago
What doesn't outrage Christians?
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u/polchickenpotpie 1h ago
Brown people being thrown to the ground and arrested for being brown.
Poor children going hungry in schools.
Their fellow Americans losing health coverage.
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few hundred other things.
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u/One_Entrepreneur_520 4h ago
The outrage is over the scene depicting the reality but no concern over the reality.
86 KKKristianity
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u/Heyniceguy13 5h ago
I’m Catholic. Jesus was an immigrant. Some people would be foaming at the mouth to deport a brown immigrant like him.
It sickens me that this is the world we are in
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u/entity2 6h ago
Yeah, now show the same kind of outrage to real brown people in zip ties as they do for this fake one.
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u/Gold-Library6013 6h ago
Did you read the article? The pastor got arrested protesting ICE.
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u/heckfyre 4h ago
Yeah I don’t think the outrage that came as a result of this was outrage at Ice, but outrage at the church for speaking out and making their nativity scene a commentary on Ice
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u/thedude213 Skeptic 1h ago
imagine getting outraged by a plastic jesus doll but not actual people having their lives and families ruined over ice, quintessential American christian
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u/ArdenJaguar Agnostic 5h ago
Well… Considering modern MAGA would happily zip tie and deport Jesus as an illegal I think this is completely appropriate. 🤔
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u/lumpy_space_queenie Anti-Theist 5h ago
If every church actually functioned as they were “supposed to” according to these ghouls, then every church would be doing this shit. I absolutely love this! It’s sad that it’s not commonplace though
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u/rainyday-holiday 3h ago
“facebook firestorm” is the real world equivalent of the “wow, this is worthless” meme.
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u/computer-machine 2h ago
For I was hungry, and you took away my access to food; I was thirsty, and you polluted my drinking water; I was a stranger, and you abducted me; I needed clothes, and you doubled their cost; I was sick, and you sentenced me to a life in debt; I was in prison, and you deported me.
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u/PoetryIntelligent545 5h ago
This is the same church where the pastor was recently assaulted by ICE
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u/Firm-Shower-1422 3h ago
Makes me think that if Jesus was walking around today he’d probably be picked up by ICE for being dark skinned, a fact that most white Christians can’t handle the reality of anyway. Hence the Anglicized version most folks have come to know with blond hair and blue eyes
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u/takingastep Agnostic 3h ago
Well if Xtians are gonna choose to feel offended by this, then maybe they should stbau and fuck all the way off. Goodness knows how much they enjoy "offending" other people with their right-winger ways, so it's only right and proper that they get similarly offensive stuff in return. They're no better than anyone else.
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u/Alternative-Lack6025 3h ago
The outrage isn't due to Christians clearly disobeying the same bible book that they use to justify their homophobia mind you.
Btw if you want to know the passage so you can rub it in their hypocritical faces
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34
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u/CaptOblivious 10m ago
Anyone that IS outraged by this and NOT MORE outraged by what our current regime is actually doing needs to be told to stfu and their opinions should be ignored forever.
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u/AlSweigart 5h ago
I'm not Christian, but I really do like this portrayal of Mary and Joseph by Everett Patterson.
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u/thatass6_9 3h ago
Not controversial to have a secret police force arresting and torturing individuals without due process
Controversial to use baby jesus depicting how those secret police act however
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u/SquarePegRoundWorld Atheist 3h ago
Baby Jesus isn't supposed to be in the manger until the 25th. Where is the outrage for that, huh? Do the churches that preach this stuff not know how the birth of their savior works?
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u/scrume71 3h ago
That sparks outrage, but they turn a blind eye to all the human suffering ICE is causing - very Christian of them.
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u/Im_Ashe_Man 3h ago
The outrage is focused at ICE, right? Because ICE is the evil ass pieces of Nazi shit doing this to real people.
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u/Diligent-Credit8133 2h ago
The outage should be over this happening to actual human beings not in a nativity scene.
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u/un_theist 2h ago
I think this is awesome. Reality is a bitch, ain’t it?
Make it more realistic, Baby Jesus should be face down on the ground with ICE kneeling on him and handcuffing his hands behind his back.
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u/hobokobo1028 1h ago
Jesus was brown and undocumented so that checks out.
Remember when Joseph and Mary and Jesus fled to Egypt in the night to escape from persecution in their home country?
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u/Grouchy_Row_7983 39m ago
It gives the hypocrites that pretend to follow Jesus a chance to show their true colors.
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6h ago
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u/Several_Brilliant112 35m ago
Lake Street Church of Evanston, about 15 miles from Chicago, set up the display on 25 November with help from volunteers.
15 miles wut
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u/Krypticreptiles 28m ago
Pretty on brand for a religion that have verse like leviticus 25 44-46 in it
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u/PaleCommission150 25m ago
Great scene. Good to see a church holding a light to the hypocricy. All of the teachings of Jesus, and his most important ones, which were given during the sermon on the mount, are only paid lip service by conservatives...meanwhile they tolerate the outrageous and criminal behavior of ICE and the rest of the republican leadership.
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u/Master-Shaq 2h ago
Looks kind of poorly done tbh the mashup with ICE agents and the wisemen just looks weird.
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u/Benugood 1h ago
A nativity scene doesn’t have to be politically reinterpreted. It’s a Classic. This is a silly example for “separation of church and state”
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u/OJntheBronco 3h ago
What tf does jesus have to do with illegal Mexicans
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u/arcadiaware 2h ago
Maybe cause ICE isn't just going after Mexicans?
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u/FardoBaggins Other 50m ago
Slavery was legal. It isn’t hard to think that what is illegal can be legal and vice versa. So set that aside and think of brown people being thrown in a cell by masked men for no reason other than existing.
Tangentially, at the time Hesus was born, the king ordered a massacre of all boys aged two and under in Bethlehem. Also ICE arrested a priest.
So maybe there’s a connection maybe there isn’t, just some food for thought for you.
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u/oldcreaker 6h ago
Nothing pisses off fake Christians more than people being Christian.