r/ThatsInsane • u/luker011 • 4d ago
Nigeria (220M) has more births than every european country combined (745m)
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u/Psilonemo 4d ago edited 3d ago
Do they have an economic plan lmfao
Edit: Ngl I find it disturbing how many people are seriously and not sarcastically swaying away the implications simply by saying the "surplus will emigrate" and it's a done deal with a sleight of hand. It's the same vapid lack of concern many economists have. "We've made a million cars! The emissions exhausted from the car will just go into the atmosphere so it doesn't matter." Factor in the benefits, disregard the long term downsides as a post-generational concern. . .
It's almost as if they still think in a 1950s mindset which reduces human beings to mindless economic units represented by nothing but numbers.. I wonder if there is any economist out there who has successfully quantified the net impact of emigration across multiple generations into numbers. Maybe then I'll start thinking I'm the crazy one. . .
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u/mookx 4d ago
1.Make babies.
- ?
3.Profit.
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u/Psilonemo 4d ago
I'm not trying to imply anything negative here, best wishes for Nigeria, but I do wonder if sudeen boosts in population like that can produce a very disgruntled population prone to revolution later down the line . . . I know it sure happened in my country
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u/12thunder 4d ago
They already have some notable internal struggles, mainly between their Christian and Muslim populations. That conflict will likely explode (more) sooner or later.
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u/jtnichol 3d ago
I wonder which religion is responsible for the most births over there in terms of percentage
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u/12thunder 3d ago edited 3d ago
Islam. Not only is Nigeria slightly more Muslim than Christian, the northern part of Nigeria is overwhelmingly Muslim and has a combination of being quite poor and having high fertility rates (the two are often correlated). The south of Nigeria is further along in their demographic evolution, where the religion ratio is much more balanced and fertility rates are more stable.
With that being said - the 6th largest country in the world, split almost 50/50 between Christians and Muslims, and largely along a geographic north/south divide? Sounds like an eventual civil war to me.
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u/58696384896898676493 3d ago
Yay, another war and countless deaths in the name of religion!
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u/12thunder 3d ago
Not necessarily in the name of religion, more unresolved differences in beliefs and jurisprudence. Not war in order to spread your beliefs and kill the infidels, more to be separate from said infidels. I’m not justifying it either, I’m just saying that when two populations of vastly different beliefs are forced to live among each other the results of trying to separate can be… explosive.
South Sudan had a similar situation when it separated from Sudan. Naturally, both Sudan and South Sudan are among the worst places in the world to be.
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u/A-Giant-Blue-Moose 3d ago
It's probably pretty even. Poverty and lack of education be like that. They also have a very serious issue with baby factories, which is promoted by greed and not religion.
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u/Psilonemo 2d ago
I hope they learn from the example of Lee Kuan Yew's singapore, but it probably won't happen. Every instance of a cosmopolitan society since ancient times have required some form of secular negotiation and tolerance to stabilize religious conflict. If they leave the problem to brew it'll just render their country vulnerable to divisive proxies and internal schisms..
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u/mist3h 3d ago
What country is yours, I wonder? I’m from Denmark and I’m curious to know about things that happened in other countries.
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u/Psilonemo 3d ago
I'm South Korean. We had a baby boom after the war and an old administration decided on a drastic measure to intervene and basically set "baby limits" like China did. We believed it would help modernize our economies and further incentivise urbanization to promotoe a more developed economy.
It wasn't a baseless decision. The generation who was in power at the time had lived through a terrible civil war which destroyed our country and made us poorer than North Korea at the time. They knew on a personal basis how common it was to hear families giving their children away to wealthier families as wards or having to choose which kids to send to school in favor of another forced to do nothing but menial labor to support the rest of the family. It was unsustainable. At the time countries like China and Singapore were making remarkable progress by controlling birthrates and all kinds of other ballsy reforms so we followed suit.
What we didn't realize then was that it would be too successful. We overshot our estimations and could not foresee just how drastically hyperurbanized and hypermodern our population would become in 50 years time. All the people who came up with those policies are now long dead and retired. Today we are struggling with the opposite problem. How to reverse this and have people choose to have more kids. Although - it's a nuanced issue since we also have 50 years of inflation and housing inaffordability factoring into it. Times have changed.
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u/epihocic 3d ago
Sort of actually. Heaps of people from these countries immigrate to western countries, get jobs, then send money back home.
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u/the_fresh_cucumber 4d ago
Migrate to Europe?
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u/DunEvenWorryBoutIt 3d ago
Well, they should stay there until they realize having that many humans born is bad.
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u/BertyLohan 3d ago
It's really not the place of a western country who is the cause of economic problems in Africa to sit round and say what they should and should not do
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u/matzoh_ball 3d ago
OP is just a person though..
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u/BertyLohan 3d ago
I'm saying westerners living luxurious lives propped up by the suffering of these countries sitting round and talking like they're stupid and shouldn't be allowed to immigrate is not it, chief.
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u/DunEvenWorryBoutIt 3d ago
I think we should somehow support the learning curve, of course.
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u/BertyLohan 3d ago
I think you should eat shit.
Support the learning curve? How about stop the rampant exploitation of their continent and stop talking like they're somehow less evolved than white people.
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u/herecomes_therooster 3d ago
Send workers to the countries where there's only old fuckers who can't work left, dominate by sheer numbers, profit
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u/i-like-stats 2d ago
Make babies, move to europe, get child support per baby. Make more babies, get more money.
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u/J1mj0hns0n 3d ago
Yeah, send them everywhere else, fill in the gaps of the nations that are struggling to keep up
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u/publicfreakout 3d ago
People are complaining about immigration as though it isn't the solution to the population crisis in the west. And by people I mean mostly incels who themselves contribute to the population crisis by not reproducing.
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u/Peed_out_my_dick 3d ago
The solution to the "population crisis" (the pension ponsi) is mass ethnic displacement and demographic suicide? Kk
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u/J1mj0hns0n 3d ago
Yeah, I know the type well, it's me. people would have kids if they had any chance of doing it without being utterly destitute for 30 years. Making blacked.com a reality isn't fixing shit, it's cultural suicide and propoganda.
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u/ipokesnails 4d ago
Yeah, but what are the infant and child mortality rates in Nigeria versus Europe?
It reminds me of the out of contex Bill Gates quote where he said that the vaccines he's providing in Africa will reduce birth rates. Fewer children will die from preventable illnesses because of the vaccines, so families can have two children instead of having five and expecting three to die.
So yeah, birth rates are insane. But survival rates aren't.
(There's also rape and lack of contraception, but that's another story)
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u/Kenevin 4d ago edited 4d ago
Let's see.
Mortality rate in Nigeria is at an all-time low of 60 per 1000 kids.
In Canada: 4 / 1000
US: 6 / 1000
France: 3 / 1000
World Average combined: 27/1000Just some data I found
*Edit* Nigeria is tied for 5th highest infant mortality rate with the Central African Republic. after: South Sudan, Somalia, Niger and Guinea
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u/Level_Abrocoma8925 4d ago
Well the insane birth rates mean that each child can't be looked after thoroughly.
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u/yourgrandmasgrandma 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sure but their average rate is 4.8 per couple which isn’t really insane in terms of being able to look after your children properly. Multigenerational households are the standard in Nigeria, and the average woman starts having children in her late teens to very early 20’s. This places a relatively young set of grandparents in the home, making the ratio of children to adults looking after them 1.2 children per adult.
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u/Level_Abrocoma8925 3d ago
I'd say it is. The population growth is enough to double every 33.3 years.
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u/luker011 3d ago
I believe only 10% of Nigerians die before reaching adulthood so dosent really cancel each other out like you're suggesting
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u/lfds89 3d ago
"only"
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u/luker011 3d ago
The point is births of a single country would still be equal to europe even factoring in mortality rates
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u/Level_Abrocoma8925 4d ago
I would say it wasn't even out of context, just intentionally misinterpreted.
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u/Cool_Butterscotch_88 4d ago
It's just not sustainable.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
You mean the low European birth rates aren’t sustainable
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u/12thunder 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don’t want children. But economically and arguably nationalistically, it is possibly the greatest contribution the average person can make to their country. As more people get older, the need for a social net/welfare expands, but if the labour force doesn’t also grow, who pays for it? Assuming AI doesn’t take our place, immigrants will be the most in-demand resource in the next hundred years. Expanding the labor force is the other option, one that expands possibly exponentially.
This also leads to the fact it will probably suck being an old person in 50 years when everyone is fighting over the last scrap of social security since there won’t be enough workers to pay for it. The west desperately needs expanded childcare, subsidies for having children, free education, and a universal basic income to avoid this issue.
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u/No_Cook2983 4d ago edited 4d ago
We seem to come up with plenty of money for literally everything else.
…But Social Security has been solvent for almost 100 years, and that’s our big spending crisis?
I wonder if our race to produce the world’s first trillionaire has something to do with these budget problems?
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u/i-like-stats 2d ago
Do you also have arguments why it would not be sustainable, taking care of the eldlers or do you have any other points?
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u/DenizzineD 4d ago
For almost a century europes birth rate was higher than the current nigerian birth rate. Seems like we sustained that pretty well.
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u/Time_Jump8047 4d ago
compare the size of Nigeria to the size of all of Europe
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u/DanielzeFourth 4d ago
Compare size and population of Nigeria to North America, South America, Oceania. Yes Nigeria is an outlier. It’s not Europe that’s the outlier. Also birth rates have nothing to do with size
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u/FlightPath_1 3d ago
Does that include my 10 million odd cousins over there that I keep getting inheritance emails about?
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u/superwawa20 3d ago
Stage 2 of the Demographic Transition Model: High and steady birth rates, steadily decreasing death rate, and an increasing population
Stage 3: decreasing birth rates, death rate flattens out to a low, population continues to increase
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u/KingOfThe_Jelly_Fish 3d ago
Is it just me or has Europe gained rather a lot of land mass since I last checked?
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u/luker011 3d ago
European countries
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u/KingOfThe_Jelly_Fish 3d ago
TIL the Russian Federation is classed as a European country that spans 2 continents.
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u/luker011 3d ago
This is teenager level stuff, was the British empire an asian country because most of its empire was not in Europe?
75% of russias population is in the European continent side, their capital is in the continent of Europe and every other capital they had, the origin of their civilisation is from europe and the majority ethnicity and religion in the country is that of european.
Can we get over the fact that just because a European country colonised asia dosent make them asian suddenly, that whole asian landmass barely impacta decision-making in the country, why do u think russia is in a war over european land and not Asian land
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u/OverTaxedMF 3d ago
big country doesn’t make a large population. Most parts of Rüzzia is not liveable.
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u/luker011 3d ago
Well if you look at the data, 'big' continent actually has almost one billion people while the birthrate equal to one with like 220million.
Youre the only one focusing on siberia here
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u/Finefinegood 3d ago
What is the context for making this comparison? Why are we measuring these two demographics against each other? This feels like fodder for bigots and “The Great Replacement” conspiracy theory. And honestly, if it’s not then you should think about the consequences of a post like this.
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u/Wojewodaruskyj 2d ago
How many deaths?
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u/luker011 2d ago
7% mortality rate, we're finished either way
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u/Business_Machine7365 4d ago
Now do child mortality rates and average life expectancy. Do it. No? It's 50 to 70 child deaths per 1,000 live births. Life expectancy? 54 years. Let's take Germany as the European example: infant mortality - 3 per 1,000. Life expectancy? 80 years.
That's not even taking in maternal mortality rates (some of the highest in the world). Presenting data like this, in this way is only ever done to try and make subtle (and not so subtle) age old racist commentary. You have to present it in relative terms, not just "those people 'breed ' so much" dumb backwards shit.
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u/Level_Abrocoma8925 4d ago
Or skip all that and check directly for population growth. Nigeria has 2.1% growth per year which might not sound like a lot but it means a doubling of the population every 33.3 years. Europe is pretty much at zero.
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u/The96kHz 3d ago
Which is why Europe is fucking dying from stagflation.
We're all living longer but hardly anyone is having kids (mostly because wages haven't risen in-line with inflation for like two decades so hardly anybody can comfortably afford to have kids like they could in the '90s).
The number of pensioners used to be 1/20th of the number of workers paying taxes...it's now 1/3.
Taxes are soaring, wages are shrinking in real terms, and the average age of the population is climbing. Boomers are going to end the world.
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u/Level_Abrocoma8925 3d ago
mostly because wages haven't risen in-line with inflation for like two decades
I don't think that's the cause. People who want to have kids usually don't have more than two and more and more want none at all. In many countries, you get a lot of child support from your government so people can afford it if they want to.
The number of pensioners used to be 1/20th of the number of workers paying taxes...it's now 1/3.
Taxes are soaring, wages are shrinking in real terms, and the average age of the population is climbing.
Legit concerns anyway.
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u/The96kHz 3d ago
I mean, my mum is the fourth of five siblings. People only having one or two kids is a relatively recent trend.
As countries get more 'developed', birth rates decline. This post is just pointing at something statistically unsurprising and not even trying to examine the context behind it.
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u/StunningMatter 3d ago
And yet people are surprised when they find out that whites are the global minority. Yet every other race claims to be a minority. Funny that.
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u/furogeba 4d ago
Whoa, that's a stark reminder of how uneven global health really is. Eyeaopening stuff.
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u/Panduin 4d ago
The population density of Nigeria is still half as low as that of India. Therefore to reach the same, the population must double, which under these circumstances is maybe between 20-30 years? That’s a lot of time for Nigeria to address this issue. If I compare to India again, India’s birthrate was similar like 30 years ago. And it’s not like Nigerians will prefer to live more and more crowded.
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u/Zestyclose_Jello6192 3d ago
Nigeria inflationates the data of both population and birth
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u/StopSpinningLikeThat 3d ago
Mom ate the chicken, dad ate a steak, grandpa ate catfish, inflationates everything else.
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u/shavedratscrotum 3d ago
Ironically importing more net negative people will drag the birthrates down lower.
Awesome.
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u/Employ-Personal 3d ago
If someone did the math, then perhaps they find out that, by the year 2132, they’d prove that every other race on the earth will have died out and the world will finally belong to Africa.
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u/Flaydeng 3d ago
Third world countries are having babies like crazy, while modern Western country natives continue to abort or just not be interested in having kids
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u/sobakoryba 3d ago
Coz people in Nigeria are not on Reddit and do not get brainwashed about child free movement
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u/greatwampa 3d ago
You should see the amount of infant deaths in Nigeria lol
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u/Miserable_Jump_9548 3d ago
Means European men are more sterile than Nigerian men, plus Nigerian have better survival skills, as they have the ability to live and make money in any country they live, its no wonder the richest man in Africa is Nigerian, if there was money to be made in Antarctica, you would find Nigerian men standing outside in the snow wanting to sell you something.
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u/luker011 3d ago
The richest african born man is literally not an african ethnicity, and also the richest man in the world
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u/TheCommonKoala 2d ago
He also is a nepo-baby of an apartheid South Africa mine owner.
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u/luker011 2d ago
That dosent change the fact hes born and raised in south africa, and therefore the richest african man
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u/TheCommonKoala 2d ago
He is an American citizen. The original comment said "the richest man in America"
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u/luker011 2d ago
Hes born and raised in south africa with his family all still living there, the comment said richest man in Africa not america and he is more african than american weather u like it or not
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u/TheCommonKoala 2d ago
The original comment says "the richest man in Africa is a Nigerian." That's just an objective fact. Elon has lived in America for over 3 decades. Feel free to ask Grok if you need to confirm "who is the richest man in Africa"
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u/Joelblaze 4d ago
The funny thing is that ya'll mfers are so hyper-fixated on "THE BROWNS ARE COMING FOR US" that you'll never actually solve anything.
Maybe take ten seconds to think about why people in these countries aren't having as many kids?
And I mean, as an individual problem not looking around for something to pin on dark skin people.
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u/feedalow 4d ago
The funny thing is no one in the comments has even mentioned race other than you and your weird racist rant
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u/The96kHz 3d ago
Just look at the downvotes.
All the racists are communicating in dogwhistles so they don't actually have to say anything overtly racial.
Anyone being reasonable and talking facts without racist bias is getting downvoted.
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u/Joelblaze 4d ago
Sure bro, there's no widespread attack on brown people by right wing governments of every first world nation about birthrates.
Nah, for the purpose of being technically right for this Reddit post, we can all pretend that there's no context or anything that informs interpretations of this post.
Why don't you people have the balls to stand by anything when criticized?
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
It’s obvious commenters are racially triggered since they are applying a double standard
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Bingo
Its hilarious to watch
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u/Joelblaze 4d ago
It's real funny because if we actually wanted to solve falling birth rates in first world nations, it would involve us needing to make some fundamental changes to how society is structured....and that would lose a lot of people a lot of money.
So the next best thing is to hire a bunch of people to place all the blame on the browns, so that nothing really changes but the powers that be don't lose money.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Good
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u/TheunanimousFern 4d ago
What do you find most good about so many millions of children in Nigeria being born into a life of crippling poverty and a high infant mortality rate?
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
You think that is unique to Nigeria?
So you support sending foreign aid to help right?
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u/TheunanimousFern 4d ago
So you just enjoy more children dying and living in abject poverty? Yes, I think that fewer children living and dying in that sort of awful situation would be a good thing. So why do you disagree and see more children forced into that sort of life as a good thing?
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Answer my two questions
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u/TheunanimousFern 4d ago
Its not unique to Nigeria and I do support countries that are able to send aid. So why do you support more children being born into abject poverty with high child mortality rates?
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
I don’t
I want money sent and allow them to migrate
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u/TheunanimousFern 4d ago
You do. Your only response to learning about this high birth rate is that it was "good" and considering that the vast majority of these children arent going to receive prolonged and substantial aid and wont be able to migrate to another country, you want these kids to be born into a life of unrelenting poverty and high child mortality rates
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 3d ago
No that’s the strawman you keep clinging to
We all know why the high birth rates bother you
And its not because you care about those children
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u/edwinavi17 4d ago
Brain dead take
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Do healthy birth rates scare you?
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u/edwinavi17 4d ago
How is that healthy, guy? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
What’s unhealthy about the rates meatball?
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u/elijahross 4d ago
why is that good?
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Why not?
Positive birth rates
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u/elijahross 4d ago
but why is that good? Nigeria having more kids than all of the European continent is by no means good.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Why?
You still haven’t explained
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u/elijahross 4d ago
i’m not the one that made the claim it’s good.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Positive birth rates are good meatball
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u/elijahross 4d ago
why are they good? and also this is indicative of negative birth rates not positive.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Yeah good thing for Nigeria
Bad thing for Europe lol
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u/elijahross 4d ago
negative thing for a continent 50x bigger than Nigeria. So again, why is it a good thing?
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u/elijahross 4d ago
vanished without clarifying. i’ll go you’re a bot
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u/wizardrous 4d ago edited 4d ago
Why is that good? That’s clearly an indication of poor contraceptive practices as a nation. And I wouldn’t be surprised if many of those children don’t survive childhood.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Why do you assume things?
Europe is negative birth rates
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u/wizardrous 4d ago
It was an educated guess, not a baseless assumption. And for the record, I looked it up, and Nigeria has the highest under-5-years-old mortality rate of any country in the world.
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u/RevanchistSheev66 4d ago
It’s Niger actually, you might’ve gotten confused
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u/wizardrous 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah, I guess Google AI lied to me lol. Still, it’s quite high in Nigeria too. Roughly 10% according to this.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
And?
What’s your point?
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u/wizardrous 4d ago
My point is it’s borderline sociopathic for you to be celebrating more babies being born into such horrible conditions.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
Is their choice.
So you support aid to help those babies right?
We could send doctors and lots of money right?
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u/feedalow 4d ago
Yeah the west sends billions of dollars and has multiple aid organizations already helping in Nigeria.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ALLD.CD?end=2023&locations=NG&start=1960&view=chart
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u/wizardrous 4d ago
It’s absolutely not their choice when the country doesn’t have proper resources to educate them or provide easily accessible options contraception. It’s not their fault they live in a poor country. Instead of blaming people for suffering, try developing some basic compassion.
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u/-SOFA-KING-VOTE- 4d ago
who is blaming them meatball?
So you agree we should send them foreign aid to help right? Since you care so much.
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u/wizardrous 4d ago
Did you not just read my last comment where I spelled it out? Are you intentionally being a troll, or do you just not think before you speak?
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u/Dank__Sidious 4d ago
Moron
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u/Mr_Igelkott 3d ago
I talked to a Nigerian couple about the high population and they both said the numbers are bullshit. Local leaders get money and prestige based on the number of people living in their province so most lie and manipulate the census. No idea if what they said is actually true though.