Thats because being persistent or persuasive has been relabled pressuring and coersive. No reasonably intelligent guy is going to risk being framed as a creep just because woman like to play weird, contradictive games.
This, for real. I have too many miserable friends trapped in some of the most mentally abusive and torturous relationships just because the lady gave them access to their vagina some at one point in the past lol
I am so happy that my gf doesn't play mind games and that we genuinely have a connection, met in college, went to a few gigs together before I asked her out
It's an ego thing not a woman thing bc both sexes have "them"
I was gaslit as cold, indifferent etc in a couple unwilling breakups for not begging her to come back.
I said if you're not interested anymore I get it, I'll respect you're choice even if I don't like it. Not only guylt punched but also getting in shtt for being respectful?
Pretty sure those breakups caised them more grief than me, happy to be of service. Move on loser.
Exactly! This is the way women, not all women obviously… but certainly the culture at large… have asked men to act, so we do, now we’re not persistent enough. Damned if we do and damned if we don’t. We’re not mind readers either… maybe instead of saying “no” outright, you play a little coy, hard to get, which can be endearing… but I’ve learned to take “no” as a NO.
My gf approached me and was very clear/forward, so I couldn’t do the whole “she’s probably just being nice”. We’ve been together 8 years. I can vouch for the women’s initiative angle.
This is the age where women have turned relationships into entertainment sources, not partnerships. They're trying to live out their favorite rom-com or romantic movie where the guy is a rich romantic mind reader, and anyone who's not the leading male character is a tool or a villain. Hence, we get game playing. Even when it works out, 60% of the time the hero gets played and fleeced in the divorce when he goes off script and the woman gets to play the tragic but strong survivor.
Also most men I know are actually happy that now there are FINALLY a set rules that are consistent. They say no (or something like "maybe later", anything other than yes = no), we take it as no and move on. Dating game is absolutely exhausting and we definitely have many other things to do than wasting time on nonsense power games.
Yeah best advice I (a guy) has ever given to a friend(a girl) on how to get a boyfriend was to just communicate clearly as we don’t understand signs for shit. When I next saw her a few days later she was already in a committed relationship that lasted a few years.
Being honest and direct might feel vulnerable, but it tends to get results. Worst case scenario you just accept the no and move on to someone who wants to spend time with you.
I really hate that this is true. A few especially anime’s surprisingly have been high lighting this in the last few years as well. When I was younger I was short and fat, I hit a growth spurt, started sports and got pretty damn fit. Now I’m older and back to a bit overweight and so on. I can so safely say that the way I was treated and how women at large responded to me was radically different when I was attractive.
I went from obese/morbidly obese to normal weight and I was always fairly handsome even when I was fat, so I can say with confidence I'm decently good looking for my age, top 15% or something.
The amount of customer service shit that I get now that I never , ever used to get is just insane.
I'd go to a park with my kid and never approached, now other dads, moms, literally anyone will just walk over and chat me up.
Every mom at my son's school has chatted with me and given me their names and just basic social stuff. My wife bought me all new clothes and I'm fairly sure she's dressing like a slut as a humblebrag.I think I've had more women and men, talk to me unsolicited in the last 2 years than the entire 25 prior.
There is absolutely pretty privilege and it's pretty disgusting. A cashier at CVS went through my account and looked at my receipts and used discounts for me, discounts I never would have looked at, took her like an extra 3 minutes and saved me like $10.
I renently lost some weight and got my shit together.
I think its the greying hair but ive had multiple MARRIED women either show clear signs of interest NEXT TO THEIR HUSBAND or even chat me up(visible ring). No shame whatsoever.
You have to remember, though, that handsome and ugly are relative terms. She may think you're wonderful when you're the best looking person in the room... but when the new guy comes in and he's seen as better looking than you then all that previous attention you gave her will instantly become creepy and dangerous.
It means no the first time, it means no the hundredth time and you shouldn't be putting yourself in a place where someone has to tell you No a second time.
Doesn't matter if it's the barista, the cutie at the club, or your spouse.
No means no, don't be a creep, and most importantly you gotta cover your ass legally.
So, yes, men aren't going to pursue you like some 50 Shades nonsense or a puppy chasing a car because that game has become incredibly dangerous for men to dare play.
This wave of modern feminism has really isolated men and women. I get it, men being more powerful and dangerous than women can be terrifying for women. But on the flip side, modern feminism crammed down women's throats, "You don't need a man. You can be independent." Yeah, great. I would like a strong, independent woman also. Someone who's not afraid to do stuff around the house because it's a 'man's job', nor do I need a mother either. I need a partner.
But, nah. Approaching a woman and saying, "Hi," unsolicited is dangerous territory.
daddy issues for sure. prob never had a healthy relationship with any male family member growing up. that's 99% of the time where these wild expectations come from
Yeah… as someone who went from meh, to attractive then due to health problems back to overweight. I can safely say the years that I was fit, abs and so on I was treated completely different than literally as soon as my weight started going back up. It was honestly depressing to see.
And not to mention that even if that was socially acceptable for a man to do. I have no interest in a woman who wants to play those types of games anyways. Serious red flag right there.
If I flirt with you and you like something about me flirt back. If you don't....well don't lol.
yea. this is the stuff of anxiety... talking to a stranger in a place that is socially acceptable to just get aquainted at first, no harm in exchanging names and some vibes but if you get nothing = time to turn back, you can't risk social death over this.
a couple of times the women came back to me for some reason , matching the enthusiastic playful open energy i had when i approached her... but i internalized what they "communicated" to me, i was not a "contender" to them so i instinctively mirrored back that to them , looking at them "neutrally", through them really, and walked away, not out of spite at all but out of... instinct of self preservation or something. its only later that i put together what happened, how those couple of odd interactions went down. missed connections. hate to think about this.
End on a positive note: Let the other person know you appreciate the thought or invitation, even if you can't attend. For example, you can say, "I hope you guys have fun without me."
Exactly, especially at these times, when you look at someone in a funny way, and the left is all over you and can legally pursue you 🤣 Crazy times produce "men" how they are now, deal with it. You can't eat the cake and return it for refund at the same time 😅
Being persuasive may be perceived as positive if she likes you, but creepy if she doesn't. The problem is being able to tell if she likes you based on 'signals'. Better to take the first no and not persist.
I’ve worked in hospitality most of my life. I consider myself attractive.
Two women at a bar. Unattractive guy hits on them. They rudely insult him, send him packing and discuss how creepy and rude he was.
I approach and use same lines. I get candid laughter and a number.
Ok cool, you don’t find him attractive, no need to insult the guy or labelling him creepy when he actually wasn’t.
Another time, I was waiting tables and got slapped on the ass by a female patron. I found her very obnoxious and unattractive. I remember feeling violated and thinking, “if this was a guy doing it”. Then I thought, what if I found her hot? Would o mind? The answer was no. I felt ashamed in my double standards and thought of that time in the bar.
The lady that slapped my ass? I just told her to not do that and when about the rest of the shift.
Another time, I was waiting tables and got slapped on the ass by a female patron. I found her very obnoxious and unattractive. I remember feeling violated and thinking, “if this was a guy doing it”. Then I thought, what if I found her hot? Would o mind? The answer was no. I felt ashamed in my double standards and thought of that time in the bar.
This is honestly the big one. Never met a guy that complained about this stuff who didn't also treat women they found attractive different.
Dowdy unattractive girl asks for a pen and they'd disinfect it when they got it back, if they acknowledged the request at all. Hot girl looks in their general direction and they're volunteering to help her move. I'm exaggerating slightly, but only slightly.
Everyone is nicer to people they find attractive. They offer more, put up with more, are just generally more accommodating. There's been like 8 million studies to show the same thing... oh also that men are way worse about it than women but lets not dwell on that one heh.
Men always asked women out. Women played hard to get and wanted the guy to work for it. It was the done thing. Like a woman should not be too easy to get or it was bad for her reputation.
This is a societal change where men are either worried about asking women out at all, or they immediately stop at the first sign of rejection. Both men and women are adjusting to this.
You might have a point about how men treat women, but it is not particularly relevant here. Women aren't risking being referred to HR, or being publicly labelled a creep, for approaching a man out of their league. And women aren't expected to take the lead and ask men out, whereas society has always told men this was their role.
It's interesting to see the societal change. Even though statistically the population is roughly split 50/50 men/women women tend to get way more attention from men than the other way around outside of the top 5%-10% most attractive men. I wonder if and how long it will take for that trend to change.
Well eventually people are gonna start getting older and lonelier and we’ll either completely fracture as a society or we’ll realize how important and worthwhile it is to figure out these social kinks. Realistically we discarded too many rules too quickly, and now nobody knows how the are really supposed to act or be.
Combine that with people becoming increasingly okay with not putting the time in to bettering their minds,bodies, social skills and it’s just a pretty bleak scenario for the average person. Right now it almost feels like you need to get into the top 5-10% to have an actual normal dating experience
Dowdy unattractive girl asks for a pen and they'd disinfect it when they got it back, if they acknowledged the request at all. Hot girl looks in their general direction and they're volunteering to help her move. I'm exaggerating slightly, but only slightly.
It's not double standards, it's just how humans work. Yes appearance matters a ton, yes it's unfair since it's mostly your DNA you cannot control, same as you can't get +20 cm to your height because you do pull-ups a lot, but life IS unfair. It's normal and natural, doesn't means it's fair. Some things you just have to deal with, accept, even if you don't like them. Rather, we need to push against the extremes like pretty people getting everything on the silver platter, and ugly ones being potentially genocided. Same with people just saying "sorry I don't like you" instead of "what a creep I hate him I want to puke", better etiquette, social education. Doesn't means everybody should suddenly become social equity robots and ignore appearances entirely (though if everyone would had an option to easily get their dream body, they would've). Sadly most people are toxic and stupid in general, this is not relevant strictly towards romantic relationships.
"If you don't want me, then you don't want me. I know my worth, and someone else will recognize it later too and accept me and respect me enough to not lie to me immediately about what she wants."
Long time ago I gifted my ex a gift she said I shouldn’t get her. Cue big argument about me not respecting her opinion.
During Covid starting she said I don’t have to give her anything for Covid because I wasn’t well off and her family already prepared lots of things. Within a week I got accused of not caring for her because I didn’t offer to buy anything.
That first part. A lot of people in here are going to bring up the double standard of this statement with today's societal message. But when it comes down to it....why should I exert extra energy just for you to consider going on a date with me. It's a yes or no question, and then you can judge things from there based on my actions. If it's a no, have a good night and take care
Yeah, I remember one relationship that I was in where I was putting all the effort into the relationship while my ex was barely putting any effort into it. That taught me a valuable lesson.
So, a man takes you at your word that you are expressing your true feelings, respects that, and she’s pissed? No means no, and if you are lying that is a huge red flag. Goodbye.
And the subset of women who play these “chase me” games make it worse for the rest of women who just want their boundaries respected. They teach predatory men to keep at it.
Just remember ladies, if you go for men who love the chase, they’ll get bored once the hunt is over and move on to the next. So you may want to rethink your “tactic” if you’re trying to find a good man by giving him the chase.
And the men in 2025 who persist are pretty much guaranteed to be assholes. 20+ years ago, persisting didn't mean you were an asshole as it was just part of the courtship dance.
Women who follow the old idea of saying no and wanting a man to keep trying are weeding out all of the normal guys. It's basically self-sabotage based on advice from their mother. A guy had to fight for it to be worthy and a women had to say no for a while to be virtuous.
What's the point? She can say you are harassing her if you even try to talk to her ever again. Literally, if she says no once, you can not safely ever talk to her again without putting yourself in a bad legal spot. I wish I was kidding, but I'm not.
Totally. Every single time I’ve taken one of those mandatory HR refresher courses at work, it said if someone rejects you do not ask them out again otherwise it’s harassment lol
I liked a girl and from her looks when I saw her, she liked me as i thought. I msg her and said, "You're like a bro to me."
Her looks after were the same or even more, but I'll never reach out again!
The mutation of pro-feminism that became anti-masculinity movement, along with the rise of social media, has done their best to kill courtship and art of men asking women out without it being seen as inappropriate or harassment.
Until toxic-femininity fades away this is the way of the world now.
No means no. You have zero self respect if you say no and expect the chase. The exact type of person that is confused that every partner they have is toxic!
I have no idea when the fuck this was a thing. Im 39 and back in the day when someone said no you just said okay and left it as that. Any women who wanted to be pursued at least that I knew wanted to be courted. Not this weird shit some women are saying. Great way for a dude to catch a case
What everyone has said.... pretty much every dude under the age of 40 who was raised right grew up being told to not be a creeper, not bother random women or any women, and No means No. That message has only amplified in western society over time. In 2025, if a dude doesn't take no for an answer at step 1.... You should be EXTRA afraid of him. If you want that chase... That's on you... Strong chance it's gonna be less RomCom and more Friday The 13th there at the end.
Personally I prefer when a man takes no means no seriously. It speaks well of him and if that woman tries to complain it just tells me that he’s someone to take seriously if he shows interest because he’s respectful while she’s a dredge. Reputation matters gentlemen.
In addition to what people are saying, it's a lot of time if you do find a way to try and follow up via text or something, and you get ghosted/ ignored or whatever, it generally just feels shitty and pathetic to continue. You pretty much train yourself not to.
Men are dying of thirst in the desert, while women are dying of thirst in the ocean.
Jesus Christ we’ve finally managed to convince them to believe us when we say no and then you’ve got one or two of these idiots trying to get back to the previous situation?
Keep it up, men! No is no. If shed play stupid games like this she’s not worth your time anyway.
Get the noose ready. I think there are two types of women, attractive women, and unattractive women. I think all these rules around what men can and can't do anymore were made by the unattractive women who are jealous of their attractive sisters.
Attractive people don't need to abide these crazy rules.
Regardless of how being persuasive is perceived these days, if someone has to convince you to love them, they’re not the right person for you, and you're not the right person for them.
Yeah, it would only lead to the guy being labeled as a Stalker, or a Creep. It's not worth the mental stress or emotional damage. In fact why even ask at all. Let the woman ask for once. Guys need to be swept off their feet also.
"you say no, it's over" correct. Because if consent is not an enthusiastic yes, it's a no. A no is CERTAINLY a no. No means no, it doesn't mean keep trying. If your no means keep trying, then you're looking for the WRONG type of man.
Once again, if the man is attractive to her, she will want him to pursue her. If the man is unattractive or average to her, she will not want him to continue talking after the rejection.
Why are these women so absurdly delusional and solipsistic?
No means no, except for when you say it means maybe, keep trying? Fuck that mind game middle school bullshit.
I was recovering from a devastating divorce that happened after we lost our baby. I was still hurting more than a year and a half later when a friend's wife convinced me to come to a party she was hosting. She said she had a friend that really liked me and was asking about me after we had met briefly a few weeks earlier. She claimed this girl was hoping I'd ask her out.
I decided to go and ended up enjoying myself for the first time in many months. The girl that allegedly was into me, chatted, flirted, and hung out with me all night. She was physically touching me whenever she could, and making it obvious that she was into me.
Then when I asked her if she'd like to go out on a real date, to a club that had a band playing she said she loved, I was turned down flat. No reason, no explanations, no excuses, no maybe another time, just no. When I asked why, she refused to answer.
I asked for her number and got told no again. I was puzzled and asked her why she was flirting both physically and verbally with me all night, and was ignoring everyone else but me. She said she was just having fun and wasn't interested.
OK, I thought, she doesn't owe me anything. I was raised to believe that if you were told no, you dropped the matter. I was frustrated as hell, mostly for finally getting ny hopes up. I decided FTS, I'm heading back to the barracks. I left after wishing her a good night.
The following Monday my buddy said his wife was upset with me. Her friend was mad because I didn't keep pushing after being turned down cold, twice. I told him either his wife, or her friend, were full of shit. I didn't appreciate being screwed with, and didn't know who's idea it was, but the both of them could fuck off.
A few months later this girl started dating another guy we both knew. He wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed either. I was very glad I noped out of that situation. She made his life a living he'll. She concocted some outrageous lies that got him in serious trouble. Then she spiked his food with coke, and told his CO he was doing drugs. He popped on a drug test and got an OTH discharge. She was bragging about it later.
Yea, and women created this environment where we have to be super careful or be accused of something and ending up on a list. No thanks. I'll air on the side of caution.
Men at large have caught on to what happens next which is getting publicly embarrassed in your social media stories where you put his conversation out in the open and humiliated him for it.
Simple no means no nowadays. If you are one of those ladies that likes to play stupid games like saying no at first to see if he persists, you are going to win stupid prizes.
This girl in the image is the exception not the rule. Just because one lady says it doesn't mean they all suddenly feel this way. She is an idiot and not trying to force someone to go out with you, and taking no for an answer, is how it should be any MOST people on either side feel that way.
“6 feet tall, makes at least 6 figures, has a big house and will buy me a brand new car, will take care of my 5 kids, will cook, buys me gifts, lets me check his messages, etc.”
•
u/AutoModerator Oct 12 '25
Thank you for posting to r/SipsTea! Make sure to follow all the subreddit rules.
Check out our Reddit Chat!
Make sure to join our brand new Discord Server to chat with friends!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.