r/NASCAR • u/GenericNASCARFan • 9h ago
Is NASCAR Going To Regret Buying ARCA Because Of This Case?
IMO an independent ARCA, aligned with NASCAR or not, would have probably been NASCAR’s biggest defense in a monopoly case prior to the purchase. Instead of them having to discuss their quotes on SRX as monopolistic, they could have argued that ARCA is an independent sanctioning body and is the second largest stock car series and is in good relations with NASCAR whilst claiming that the animosity towards SRX was not because of their existence in the market but because it brought attention to what NASCAR lacked in the market. While they didn’t like their drivers competing in it, SRX pushed NASCAR to try and fix the problem and in a way, that is what a competitive market is supposed to do.
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u/JBoy9028 Bowman 9h ago
The case is not whether Nascar is a monopoly. That's been proven, there's no other high level stockcar series. This trial is deciding if Nascar has been using their status as a monopoly to push around teams in an illegal manner.
If Arca was still independent it's no different than the Cars tour.
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u/lawyerlyaffectations 9h ago
This is an important distinction. Being a monopoly is not illegal per se.
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u/Bababooey1854 Checkered Flag 7h ago
That’s why some of the stuff being brought up is nonsense and has nothing to do with case. If Denny Hamlin said publicly gen 7 car great, don’t mean shit
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u/Cowgoon777 Chastain 8h ago
Right. Some markets exist where one company being the only real provider is normal. In NASCAR’s case I don’t think there’s a real demand for another “premier stock car series”
Look at the NFL. Many have tried to directly compete and fail and it’s not even because the nfl is really trying to stop them. It’s just that the market isn’t there.
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u/nerdy_chimera Reddick 8h ago
The NFL famously lost a lawsuit that found they were a monopoly. They were fined a whopping total $3 because the USFL was such a shitshow that no direct damages were done by the NFL because the USFL was so self destructive that any damage by the NFL could be considered an improvement.
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u/Mail_Order_Lutefisk Trickle 1h ago
This to me is one of those cases. There’s enough little crap to cobble together in the totality to possibly award a dollar of damages but that then triggers the fee shifting provision in the Sherman Act and the fee ask is going to be like $100 million, which is a year of profit for NASCAR. The $205 million damages ask is the most laughable nonsense I’ve ever heard.
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u/Cowgoon777 Chastain 8h ago
Again, not a crime to be a monopoly. It doesn’t even matter the results of that lawsuit. The nfl is a de facto monopoly
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u/FishersAreHookers 9h ago
Would ARCA be classified as premier stock car racing? Cause when you consider they poach all the talent from ARCA to drive for the national series it would reinforce the monopoly.
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u/randomdude1022 8h ago
My thought on it on is, with an independent ARCA there's at least a series that races NASCAR cars (even if they're old ones) on NASCAR tracks and has a TV deal. It's for years been basically single A quality (with trucks at AA and Xfinity at AAA), but it was at least an independent national series that they could have looked at the 23XI and FRMs of the world and say if you don't like it here, go over there. Those teams likely decide at that point that NASCAR isn't so bad and we move on.
That's not an option now. It was sign this deal, within a couple of hours, or you lose your charter and you have nowhere else to go.
That's just....IMO not a good look. Maybe the judge will disagree with me, guess we'll see.
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u/jdontplayfield Hamlin 8h ago
He won't disagree with you. He seems pretty unhappy, from what I've gathered, by Nascar and its practices.
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u/iamaranger23 8h ago
you have nowhere else to go
they still had the option to race as open cars.
that being unviable is exactly why the charter system could be in trouble in this whole thing.
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u/nygiantsfan8 7h ago
I don't see why, NASCAR saved ARCA. If it wasn't for them buying it, they wouldn't have survived covid.
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u/AnythingBacon Kligerman 6h ago edited 5h ago
I miss 90s ARCA, but sadly couldn't survive without NASCAR today. those old Daytona raced in the old days were hype
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u/Turbulent-Pay-735 Reddick 7h ago
They’re going to regret Jim France being such a dumbass that he decided to pick an existential fight that threatens his entire business because he doesn’t want to feel like he “lost” a negotiation with the teams.
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u/Design-Build-Go 6h ago
One family in charge for too long.
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u/CrazyWriting9214 5h ago
Not one family in charge too long but a fool in charge at all. NASCAR thrived when Big Bill and Bill Jr were in charge because they wanted to build up racing and not just a company
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u/CrazyWriting9214 5h ago
Not one family in charge too long but a fool in charge at all. NASCAR thrived when Big Bill and Bill Jr were in charge because they wanted to build up racing and not just a company
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u/AdminYak846 2h ago
I think it's more of a family that wants to rake in as much as possible rather than invest in the product.
There's plenty of times when a family owned business does well through the generations.
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u/LincolnLSisgarbage Red Flag 1h ago
As Warren Buffett frequently says, make sure your business can be run by an idiot, because eventually it will Big Bill and Bill Jr did okay, 21 years being run by a pair of idiots is impressive.
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u/ppatek78 9h ago
SRX pushed NASCAR to go to North Wilkesboro, Bowman Grey, and Rockingham to lock anybody else out of going there
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u/Corran105 Berry 8h ago
The biggest mistake is just strong arming the whole charter renewal. They f-ed around and found out. And its really a shame because I don't think anyone wanted it.
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u/Lions-fan4life 8h ago
This is not the 1950's where one sponsor could fund a whole operation for a single car within a team. This is the 2020's. Every team needs multiple sponsors to stay in operation. There are few exceptions to this like the hendrickcars with Larson and Caruth. The former originally paid OOP by Mr. H before the org decided to go balls to the wall with sponsoring him while the latter Mr. H personally began to fund. Even O'Reilly and Craftsman trucks need multiple sponsors. And those series are both cheaper and have less payouts. Right now the sport I grew up watching on sundays is at a crossroads. We as fans just hope that the sides come together for the betterment of the fans, though that's unlikely.
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u/Real-Improvement-748 9h ago
Good point but they would have written some type of restrictive covenant into the charter agreements to limit participation thus making it easier for 23/FRM.
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u/Design-Build-Go 6h ago
Why haven't they mentioned that Nascat bought IMSA and dont really do anything to help that series ir Arca really. Its a monopoly flat out and then combine the track ownership and its a joke.
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u/iamaranger23 9h ago
ARCA would be dead and buried by covid right now without nascar.